The Future of the Canadian Armed Forces
March 8, 2010 - 10:44am
The Future of the Canadian Armed Forces
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=2652853&p=2
"Despite the recently announced slow-down in military expenditures, the Canadian Forces are still one of the world's elite forces, capable of independently projecting power across great distances and maintaining it there as long as the political will remains..
And so our allies: the US in particular, will likely want us on board as partners in any future Afghanistan-like war (of whch we doubt there will be any shortage in coming decades)..."
Not altogether independently. They operate in concert with a global bully of larger stature, namely the US. Without the politial will that comes from the desire to please its master to the south, the retreat from Afghanistan would be fairly swift.
Plus, when it comes to being pro war, it's 'company policy' with Harper and his crap (CRAP=Conservative Reform Alliance Party).
The transition from 'peace-keeping' UN duty, to actively participating in military campaigns in war, was very quick. Its not an entirely new role, after all WWI, and WWII had Canadian forces.
I don't know that Canadians are comfortable with this role for our forces. Maybe they are, I don't know. I think if they really knew what Afghanistan was about, maybe they would hesitate to support it.
That Canadian's bought that crap about Afghanistan being about helping women's rights.... I think it will be easy for any Canadian minister of defense to commit Canadian forces, after the propaganda campaign justiifying the war in Afghanistan worked so well.
Hilter proved that those who control the public air waves control the people......
PrivacyRules, this may come as a surprised. The army did train for war fighting missions back in the UN days.
Yes, well I confess ignorance about the forces in general. So thank's for educating me a little.
Even if we did conduct training, for a good period since WWII? (others correct/inform me), our forces were not given conventional combat rules of engagement.
So Afghanistan did mark a shift. Some might argue that 9/11 was a strike against all human kind and we had to go after that SOB... but really, that's a tough sell.
Back then, as is the case now, rules of engagement and the 'laws of war' as they pertain to international agreements are still reinforced during training. This has to do with the residual influence from a doctrine that has largely remained unchanged from the cold war era, where the focus dealt with all out fighting among Caucasian antagonists in Europe. Ample evidence exists in the context of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan to suggest beyond a doubt that these 'chivalrous' agreements were never intended to be applied beyond Caucasian lands.
I'm drawn to these posts like a moth to a flame lol
Privacyrules, I'd be interested in how you know what rules of engagement soldiers are issued when even rules of engagement designed for military exercises are treated like closely guarded secrets. Sounds like you're doing some heavy duty guess work. Any time Canadian soldiers train for a peacekeeping mission the first "check in the box" is to be trained and get signed off for achieving a certain level of "war fighting" capability.
Nodifferencepartypooper I think you're right. Up until very recently the Canadian Forces have had to rely on other countries for various things.
When we first hit the ground in Kabul 8 years ago we weren't even allowed to carry weapons. We needed German soldiers to protect us for a little bit. Someone failed to get a signature somewhere saying Canadian soldiers were allowed to carry guns lol.
We rely on the US and other countries to transport our heavy weapons and equipment. Up until last year we didn't even have our own helicopters in Afghanistan to fly our soldiers around, move equipment or do helicoptery things.
It looks like the CF is trying to become more self sufficient, with all the purchases of heavy lifting aircraft and ships designed to move gear and people.
Yes, it concerns me that we continue in this un-winnable Afghanistan adventure in which we have placed our soldiers. Some previous posters are just as deluded as the military and have built for themselves the same sort of delusionary world based on their perspective (don't we all?). There is however, a level plain where these worlds meet and it is here where we have seen in the past Canadian troops having to fight the soldiers of Nazi Germany and a tyrannical Imperial Japan. In our own time the Canadian Army has enforced the peace in the Balkans and provided the organisational knowledge to sort out the effects of the ice storm and the regular floods in the west.
Safe in this wonderful country where human rights and the rule of law applies, these posters have every right to air beliefs without ever having to suffer the horror and confusion that we ask our soldiers to endure as part of their job. These posters may not support military types, but all things considered our Canadian Army is made up of Canadians just like them, doing what the Canadian Government has asked them to do - in our name - and they do it pretty well indeed.
All the best to our men and women of our Forces overseas and godspeed to your return to Canada - I am proud you.
Proud of what?
What they are doing in Afghanistan is no different than what
were doing when they invaded and occupied other countries.
See, that's the problem. They aren't like us. They are, by and large, very right wing, pro-authoritarian, anti-democratic, and their very presence is a threat to our freedoms (JTF2, anyone?). The fact that they willingly obey the orders of an openly fascist government whose actions are very clearly against the wishes of the Canadian people show which side they're on. They aren't murdering Afghan farmers in my name. No Afghan was ever a threat to my "freedoms", but the Canadian military and their allies in the police departments most certainly fucking are.
If Harper gave the order, they'd happily shoot down every last one of us dirty hippies. Godspeed.
And the fascists were able to effectively neutralize the anti-war movement in order to attack Afghanistan in 2001 and claiming to do so on humanitarian grounds. The anti-war movement opposed the war but at the same time, supported their phony war on terrorism by virtue of their silence on the matter. We were sucked into believing that 9/11 was a "surprise attack" on America without warning by 19 alleged to be Muslim terrorists. And the US Government still has no hard proof of those claims.
They aren't murdering Afghan farmers in my name.
Nor in mine.
My name doesn't appear on that list either.
If Canada were under attack I'd grab the nearest Hello Kitty AR-15 Assault Rifle, or a deadly kitchen knife (I am told they are equally lethal) and kick some Yankee butt (not likely the Afghanis would be attacking) myself.
Afghani farmers don't scare me very much, certainly not enough to have to send others to the other side of the earth to kill them for me.
Afghans have seen invaders come and go. But they've never retaliated against any of the homelands of any of the aggressors. And they probably never will.
Travers: Afghan Abuse a Pandora's Box Harper Can't Shut
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/861775--travers-afghan-abuse-...
"If nothing else, the fury of the Conservative counter-attack measured the extent of the perceived political threat. For reasons ranging from international relations to personal preservation, JTF2 is the Pandora's box official Ottawa is determined to slam shut. Still, what little is now in the public domain pointing directly to what the government doesn't want Canadians to every fully grasp. Joined at the hip with US Special Forces and reporting here through a unique chain of command to the top of the military pecking order, JTF2 runs what one informed source called clandestine operations to 'pick up or pick off' high value enemies.."
'Joined at the hip' indeed - the new Canadian Army Chief, Peter Deviin is a graduate of the US Army War College, served in Iraq and was Commanding General of the US Army III Corps, aptly named 'The Hammer'. Welcome to 'satan's little helper' the Canadian military - remote controlled by Warshington.
I marched against the war back in 2001 for what its worth, so I am also not happy with our trained murderers being over there. Yes they do humanitarian things...so when was the last time that was happening? Crickets anyone. When someone finally opens the books to see we did what wars cause people to do, there will be hue and cries about how it can't be true.
Yet as most of us knew going in, If you plan on being there these things will happen. It dehumanizes the guys coming back. Many of them have a hard time coping with regular life. Dealing with what the were told to do(they do conditioning for a reason) leaves many of them complete wrecks. How many have little in the way of useful skills.
My GFs ex husband works for the jail(making good money might I add) because he isn't qualified for much else after mustering out. Those skills suit him well as a jailor, but its not like everyone that leaves the military will be hired in our jails (unless harper gets his 9 billion worth of prisons) I suspect some will be on the other side of the bars with little support when the return from combat duty.
So don't tell me they are killing farmers on the other side of the world in my name. They are not. Many come home and have deep regrets about what they did, other go back for more because they were thugs before they joined, so it suits them well. I am surpised the poster didn't say "If you don't want to stand behind the troops than get in front of them"
Like no yards, I too would be fighting the amercian invaders with my dying breath. They are the only country that has invaded us(3 times no less) and one of the only ones that even bother to threaten us. I don't count some random letter from a supposed terroist stating canada is on its list of targets. Show me who is doing the real damage to this country.
Tangent, interestingly I met some of the former Airborne regiment over the weekend. Their actions pale into insignificance when one considers what is being done in our names these days in Afghanistan.
Tangent, interestingly I met some of the former Airborne regiment over the weekend. Their actions pale into insignificance when one considers what is being done in our names these days in Afghanistan.
Actually many of the Airborne regiment were quietly folded into JTF2 after it was disbanded
Doubling of SOF Night Raids Backfired in Kandahar
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=52842
"... a direct correlation between the stepped up night raids in Kandahar province and a sharp fall-off in the proportion of IEDs being turned in b the local population indicating that the raids backfired badly, bolstering the Taliban's hold on the population in Kandahar province..
General David Petraeus released totals for the alleged results of nearly 3,000 'night raids' by Special Operations Forces (SOF) units over the 90 days from May through July: 365 'insurgent leaders' killed or captured, 1,355 Taliban 'rank and file' fighters captured and 1,031 killed.."
This is the future of the Canadian Armed Forces - gangsters for imperialism. it is very likely that JTF2 would have participated in these death squad operations against Kandaharis. Your tax dollars at work..
Deaths Focus of JTF2 Probe
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/ID=1591628042
"improper deaths" ....isn't that a blast? How many of these demented murders were 'proper' and who gets to decide. Not the canucklhead public that's for sure..
Disband our regular forces and maintain a few hundred permanent trainers to ensure well trained reserve units that can be rapidly mobilised for national defense or disasters when required.
Before someone calls this pie-in-the-sky, this was how our forces were administered from Confederation until 1945 (after WW1 all but 300 reg force trainers in the RCR and PPCLI were de-mobilised).
When we joined NATO, we sacrificed our sovereignty to manage our own national defense priorities meaning that in order to regain this, the first step required will be to leave NATO immediately.
The money saved from this dismantling of our war state would be enormous.
Funny how our real military history of refusing to have a permanent army for almsot 80 years of our existence has been struck from our collective history.
Its time we have a serious debate about our national priorities: the costs of being the junior partner in the US Empire versus the damage to our society and the world at large this obsession with empire is costing us.
Freeing over $20 Billion a year would pay for a lot of social improvements.
A loney worker-- interesting nd I don't disagree with the concept entirely but totally historically inaccurate.
Before the First World War (following the pull out of British forces), Canada had a standing force of about 3,000.
After the First World War Canada's permanent forces not including militia were indeed reduced but not to 300 hundred trainers but an active force of just under 5,000 which then increased by 1938 to 4,200 land forces in addition to Navy of 2,000 and Airforce of 3,000-- or 9,200 total. In addition there were over 50,000 poorly trained but available militia.
We never had a reduction to 300 mostly trainers.
This 9,200 in 1938 was at a time when the population of Canada was 11 million. Now our population is three times that and so that low in relative terms to today would be 27,000-- in fact today the Military has over 65,000 on active duty so there has been a change but not as dramatic as you suggest. As well, in those years, Canada had a (relatively) much bigger trained non-active militia than it has today so the capacity to expand always existed.
Now if indeed the military had been reduced to 300 trainers as you say the rapid expansion in 1940 would never have been possible.
Then there is the comment about joining NATO following the US-- actually within NATO Canada does have chocies and stayed out of Vietnam and choose to enter UN conflicts mostly up till Afghanistan which is indeed unusual.
So while I am not sure that NATO has a purpose now, I would say the first step would be to have a government that does not consider itself at the service of the US. Even within NATO that can be achieved. And even without NATO, Canada could be a US branch. So the first step is not so much to leave NATO but to assert some military independence. That said I wonder how much it is the pressure to go to war rather than the desire-- I think Harper on principle wants Canada's forces in combat somehwere and and he is not alone-- like some kind of national proving of a point (to put it the most politely).
I think the Canadian forces likely could be re-purposed to Canadian priorities for the most part (we don't need these fighter planes). I think the military could be smaller but not 300 trainers.
If we look at the example of the Irish Army-- enough for home defence and some committment to the UN not members of Nato. They have 8,500 troops. Canada has a larger population and larger land area so relatively speaking by population that would be close to the size of Canada's military in numbers. However, the Irish do not spend big dollars on expensive offensive equipment so the Canadian military budget could be pared down.
The government in creating new large expenditures does not actually say directly what the purpose of the Canadian military is -- they just take for granted that we need a large offensive force.
Highway of Rapists.
The future of the Canadian Armed Forces?
I wish I could see another, but all I see is futile death for American Empire.
Highway of Rapists.
Oh, now that is a good point out!
Thanks for that, am going to use it all the time.
Canada's War on Islam: The Case of Mahboob and Momin Khawaja - by Stephen Lendman
http://www.countercurrents.org/lendman081010A.htm
"Canada, like other Western countries and Israel, is partnered in America's War on Islam - a post 9/11 ' war on terror' scheme to vilify Muslims as culturally inferior gun toting terrorists for political advantage. As a result, thousands of innocent victims ahve been lawlessy persecuted, bogusly charged, imprisoned tortured, and in some cases extra judicially murdered in cold blood.."