Galloway's Canada Ban Won't Be Reviewed....but...
Galloway's Canada Ban Won't Be Reviewed
http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/09/27/mp-galloway-banned-kenney-fe...
"A Federal Court judge says he cannot review Immigration Minister Jason Kenney's decision to bar controversial former British MP George Galloway from Canada. In his ruling released on Monday, Justice Richard Mosley writes that since Galloway never actually tried to enter Canada after being warned the government would not let him in, there isn't much he can do.
However, Mosley, a former Crown Prosecutor, found the decision to prevent Galloway from coming to Canada 'a flawed and overreaching interpretation of the standards under Canadian law for labelling someone as engaging in terrorism or being a member of a terrorist organization..."
and this version - the Toronto Coalition to Stop the War press release
http://www.rabble.ca/news/2010/09/federal-court-slams-government-interfe...
"Galloway and his supporters will announce in the coming days the details of an upcoming tour that will bring Galloway back to Canada.."
I frankly never could care less about "Showboat Galloway". He changed his views/politics and exhibited such bizarre behaviour that any work he did was always suspect.
No showboats in Canada? Is that part of the anti-terrorism effort?
I frankly never could care less about "Showboat Galloway". He changed his views/politics and exhibited such bizarre behaviour that any work he did was always suspect.
Bullshit.
Double bullshit. I don't care that he is a showboat. This is more of that "champiagn socialist" crap where we are suppose to have some sort of mythical standard. I am tired of playing fair when everone else has an ace up their sleeve or bringing a gun to the NDPs knife fight.
We let the showboat "mission accomplished" non elected war criminal George double ya Bush into the country, but not a guy banned for bringing aid to a near internment camp region . OK good to know where our standards are.
Yea, I'm looking forward to Galloway coming to Canada and ripping a new asshole for every Conservative in sight. I always find whining and crying Conservatives a deeply satisfying sight and there can never be enough of them.
And he reminds us all just how dreary and dull the local pols by comparison - like watching and listening to paint dry
James Clark's analysis of Mosley's decision is a terrific summary of a great and important decision re material support of terrorism: http://www.rabble.ca/news/2010/09/what-galloway-court-decision-means-fre...
Mosley's statements about what is and isn't material support run counter to positions endorsed in the U.S. courts, and that matters a lot. Well done.
'I'm Coming To Get You' George Galloway Tells Jason Kenney
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/im-coming-to-get-you-george...
"I'm coming to get you with my arguments, Mr Kenney,' Galloway said. 'I'm gong to establish either that you're a fool or that you're a knave - in any case, that the people of Canada deserve better than you..
At the time, Mr Kenney did say publicly, 'I believe folks that are supporting and promoting and helping terrorist organizations are not needed to visit Canada.'
Mr Galloway said the terrorist allegations had proven extremely damaging. Not only did they cost him his long-held seat in the British House of Commons in May, he said, they also put him in personal danger, hampered his ability to travel and placed him and his family under anxiety and stress.."
CTV should sponsor a George Galloway invasion of the House of Commons, and call it a "cage match" or something. Anyone who has heard Galloway speak would line up to hear him verbally demolish pipsqueaks like Jason Kenney or Stevie-boy Harper.
Bring it on!
Yea, I think Galloway still has his regular radio show. It would be interesting to listen to him take on some of the talk radio flyweights on this side of the Atlantic.
Hell, he could give seminars and help build a whole "left wing talk radio" movement. Ferocity 101.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1532509206579317476# Nuff said
So?
So? Right that's normal...Ok
Probably more normal than you would like to believe. In anycase if the best you can do for supporting your assertion that the Canadian Government should have the right to ban Galloway from entering the country is because he appeared on tasteless British celebrity TV show where he was obliged to behave in a bizarre manner, I think I should remind you that Hitler's primary objection to modern art was that artists who paint "skies green and ground blue" should be banned, and that your objection is more or less along that line.
To wit: Is dressing up in a cat suit an behaving like a cat evidence of material support for terrorism?
To wit: Is dressing up in a cat suit an behaving like a cat evidence of material support for terrorism?
Precisely. Unlike our own white-cat no difference party, who continue to give 'material support for terrorism' by supporting Israeli apartheid, Galloway has brought aid and support to those victims of ongoing Zionist war crimes and oppression. And since you like Galloway vids, here he is being anything but a pussycat..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk
Probably more normal than you would like to believe. In anycase if the best you can do for supporting your assertion that the Canadian Government should have the right to ban Galloway from entering the country is because he appeared on tasteless British celebrity TV show where he was obliged to behave in a bizarre manner, I think I should remind you that Hitler's primary objection to modern art was that artists who paint "skies green and ground blue" should be banned, and that your objection is more or less along that line.
To wit: Is dressing up in a cat suit an behaving like a cat evidence of material support for terrorism?
I don't believe I said what you imply cueball. My thing with Galloway is that he is a friggin clown. I have no respect for this blowhard and do not see him as a person with much integrity. That said his being a silly twit should never have stopped him from entering Canada and all those who want to hear a man, who pretends he is a cat on public TV, can certainly do so. I will be picking my nose that evening.
I would have that that freedom of speech and banning popular political figures because of their views would be more engaging for an astute and intellectually engaged person such as yourself, as opposed to youtube clips of odd performances on silly TV programs. But then again, some people read books on political theory, others think that their time is better spent picking their nose while reading celebrity gossip columns and watching celebrity blooper clips on youtube.
It is all a matter of ones priorities I suppose.
I think Galloway has the right to speak, and so long as he breaks no Canadian laws through said speech (such as incitement), he should be able to tour here and say whatever he wants. His right to free speech is more important in my mind than anything he might have to say.
Can't disagree with Uncle John. But some people are more enamoured with spending their waking ours finding celebrity blooper Youtube clips to consider such nuances of what democracy is all about.
I would have that that freedom of speech and banning popular political figures because of their views would be more engaging for an astute and intellectually engaged person such as yourself, as opposed to youtube clips of odd performances on silly TV programs. But then again, some people read books on political theory, others think that their time is better spent picking their nose while reading celebrity gossip columns and watching celebrity blooper clips on youtube.
It is all a matter of ones priorities I suppose.
Sorry cueball, the cat thing is something that just gives me the willies. Sorry but there is no coming back from that. Each to his own cueball. I will defend your right to enjoy catman Galloway. I promise.
In Turkey Youtube is banned because it is sometimes used to defame the "Great Turk". But most pimply faced Youtube fans don't often think about such things, so I was a little bit surprised when one showed up here, saw a thread on Galloway being banned by the federal government and actually decided to comment. What didn't surprise me was that the important thing that came to mind for him was not the infringement on the right to freedom of speech, which he said nothing about, but the wacky thing he saw about Galloway on Youtube.
Here is a guy who does a routine survey of wacky things you can see on the internet, maybe you will like him: Raywilliamjohnson.
I have seen the youtube clip of George Galloway and while I sympathize with the fact that Galloway should not be kept out of Canada, his antics are childish and boorish. He is a pompous ass who despite his perceived good works, does so in such a manner that at least i am turned off.
There is unquestionably a free speech issue here but jtleroy is also right when he points to Galloway as a total oddball whose ridiculous behaviour often does harm to the issues he tries to champion.
No one could disagree with the comment that Galloway is an oddball rather some just dislike that this fact was brought up in this thread
They dislike it? Really you think that's the case? Why would they dislike it?
George Galloway's behaviour is very disturbing and should be discussed here. I am not sure why Cueball would try to derail it. Surely the man's credibility has some importance. If he is seen as deranged who would pay attention to his message no matter how important or sincere?
If Canada can let a war criminal like Dubya,a mentally ill trouble making pundit like Ann Coulter or the hopelessly moronic Sarah Palin cross our border,why can't we let in a member of the British Parliament?
Oh yeah,he sends a dissenting voice that can contradict the whole conservative cause.
Harpie's Heroes only likes opinions and speeches by the people they strive to emulate...War criminals,sociopaths,liars,racists,fascists and morons....And anything else Faux News worthy.
George Galloway's behaviour is very disturbing and should be discussed here. I am not sure why Cueball would try to derail it. Surely the man's credibility has some importance. If he is seen as deranged who would pay attention to his message no matter how important or sincere?
The guy appeared on a silly TV program where contestants were asked to do silly and embarrassing things. George did those embarrassing and silly things. The derailment here is trying to turn a discussion about freedom of speech and the government's right to persecute opinions that they do not like by interfering in the activities of immigration officials, whose activities are meant to be dealt with at arms length from the political views of the government, by discussing Mr. Galloway's appearance on a popular TV game show.
Georges appearance on this TV program, or what he did on that program, did not appear in the crowns brief on the defense of the government action. Indeed the court rule in favour of Mr. Galloway on all points, except one, which was a legal technicality based on the fact that Mr. Galloway, after being intimidated by letters from the immigration department, did not actually try and seek entry to Canada. Other than that, the judge entirely sided with Mr. Galloway.
The fact that some commenter here think that the most important thing to discuss in this case, is not government interference in the due process of the immigration department, but a ridiculous Youtube clip featuring Mr. Galloway, speaks not to the detriment of Mr. Galloway, but to the detriment of the critical capacity of those who think that a short appearance on a TV game show is worthy of discussion.
We are supposed to take seriously the opinions of those who are less interested in the interference of the work of immigration officials and due process by the government, than they are in a discussion about celebrity gossip, and you would not have me come to the conclusion that such a set of priorities is an indication of derangement far beyond anything Mr. Galloway did on that TV program.
I have seen the youtube clip of George Galloway and while I sympathize with the fact that Galloway should not be kept out of Canada, his antics are childish and boorish. He is a pompous ass who despite his perceived good works, does so in such a manner that at least i am turned off.
There is unquestionably a free speech issue here but jtleroy is also right when he points to Galloway as a total oddball whose ridiculous behaviour often does harm to the issues he tries to champion.
'THE youtube clip'? Youtube lists 'about 5,650 videos for Mr.Galloway, of which I'll guess some 99% document his decades-long involvement with progressive forces in the Middle East as well as in his own country.
But you want to talk about a cat.
'Perceived good works'? Like that Viva Palestina convoy, that splashed Israel's crimes all over the international press and brought substantial material aid to the imprisoned Palestinians of Gaza? Those kind of 'perceived' good works?
Perhaps you will be more comfortable in the 'jokes' threads, in babble banter?
There are some people here who seem very touchy about anyone who brings uop Galloway's credibility problem. And no wonder he has a GIANT credibility problem.
I also take umbrage with those who put words in my mouth. Where did I ever say that Catman Galloway's silly antics takes presedence over the free speech issue? I brought up his credibility as part of the honest discussion going on here.
So keep plugging away at my credibility Cueball. Fine by me, since I never went on any publicly broadcasted television show and purred, licked and meowed like a cat for millions to see.
You take umbrage at that? Hard to figure out why persons might not be aware of your professed position on freedom of speech when your introductory comment was not a comment but a link to a Youtube clip without comment. Indeed the only time you brought up free speech was when some people called you on your priorities.
In the light of that the fact that you later professed an interest in freedom speech seem pro forma, as opposed to heartfelt. Indeed, in my view "democrats" would be outraged by the freedom of speech issue to such and extent that Mr. Galloway's antics would seem irrelevant, and hardly worth considering in the greater scheme of things.
For someone who has taken an interest in pursuing very minute details of the activities of Mr. Galloway, you would think that you would apply similar precision in your own commentary and perhaps mention your support for the right to freedom of speech, in a thread about freedom of speech, without being pressed to do so.
Presed to do so? Don't think so. And cannot help but observe how obseesed you are with the fact that I brought up Galloway's dalliances as a kitty cat. Had you not continued to challenge my right to do so I suspect it would have ended there. But you seem to have this irritating thing where you have to have the last word. So please go ahead but understand I brought up Galloway's credibility problem. It was a legitimate part of the debate no matter how hard you may wish to diminish it.
I didn't bring up the cat video. Indeed we have had plenty of discussion about the cat video. I actually watched the whole show! This happened several years ago. Get up to speed. The world of Youtube oddities is a wonderful place. All kinds of fun, and sometimes gruesome things there.
This thread however is about the repression of freedom of speech, not Celebrity Big Brother. If you are really interested in rehashing the Celebrity Big Brother show, you might want to start a thread about it, since you seem interested. However, for me, that is done to death.
You seem to be trying to assert that the right to freedom of speech is somehow predicated upon your personal opinion of someones credibility? Perhaps you are suggesting that people who can be shown to appear on freak shows have less right to freedom of speech? Are you saying that dressing up in a cat suit on TV is somehow related to the government decision ot ban Galloway?
Is that it? What is your position, exactly. It is very hard to tell.
harper hates liberals. why? liberals are, by design, inoffensive almost to a point where a lefty such as i want a baseball bat-
not for them but for the frenetic boors who always argueing for harper (see jon oakley/ryan doyle/mike coren/mike stafford/
charles adler, dave agar, jimmy richards etc) ...just the fact George Galloway is one of OURS should pre-empt time spent criticising him on Babble when
...turn on ANY talkradio in GTA and get a earful of 'he's a commie who loves muslim terrorists and a moral danger to our children' etc
I'm looking forward to George's broadcast. Let Conservatives, bigots, rascists, and other misanthropes tremble. It's like werewolves hearing about silver bullets and wooden stakes. BLAM! Ya gotta love it.
Maybe the opposition parties could get together and invite Galloway to speak to Parliament on the subject of freedom of speech. It really seems that the current bunch of Conservative neaderthals need a lesson. Badly.
Kick. their. asses. George.
I didn't bring up the cat video. Indeed we have had plenty of discussion about the cat video. I actually watched the whole show! This happened several years ago. Get up to speed. The world of Youtube oddities is a wonderful place. All kinds of fun, and sometimes gruesome things there.
This thread however is about the repression of freedom of speech, not Celebrity Big Brother. If you are really interested in rehashing the Celebrity Big Brother show, you might want to start a thread about it, since you seem interested. However, for me, that is done to death.
You seem to be trying to assert that the right to freedom of speech is somehow predicated upon your personal opinion of someones credibility? Perhaps you are suggesting that people who can be shown to appear on freak shows have less right to freedom of speech? Are you saying that dressing up in a cat suit on TV is somehow related to the government decision ot ban Galloway?
Is that it? What is your position, exactly. It is very hard to tell.
The thread is ostensibly about Galloway and the Court decision. That leaves a wide berth as is evidenced by the discussion here.
Look I understand how embarassing it is for Galloway's disciples to have to deal with this issue but as I try to impress upon you credibility means much.
Now despite your most sincere attempts to lump me in with those who want to stop GG at the border, that was never my position. Even silly people who lack any credibility have the right to free speech.
Apparently - you're here posting.
At the risk of being accused of making a spelling flame, I believe that's spelled "George" Galloway.
...
A few weeks ago I took over the time slot of another show's host. I played an Alternative Radio program byGeorge Galloway. I find his honest speaking style refreshing. Smilin' Jack should take lessons.
I didn't bring up the cat video. Indeed we have had plenty of discussion about the cat video. I actually watched the whole show! This happened several years ago. Get up to speed. The world of Youtube oddities is a wonderful place. All kinds of fun, and sometimes gruesome things there.
This thread however is about the repression of freedom of speech, not Celebrity Big Brother. If you are really interested in rehashing the Celebrity Big Brother show, you might want to start a thread about it, since you seem interested. However, for me, that is done to death.
You seem to be trying to assert that the right to freedom of speech is somehow predicated upon your personal opinion of someones credibility? Perhaps you are suggesting that people who can be shown to appear on freak shows have less right to freedom of speech? Are you saying that dressing up in a cat suit on TV is somehow related to the government decision ot ban Galloway?
Is that it? What is your position, exactly. It is very hard to tell.
The thread is ostensibly about Galloway and the Court decision. That leaves a wide berth as is evidenced by the discussion here.
Look I understand how embarassing it is for Galloway's disciples to have to deal with this issue but as I try to impress upon you credibility means much.
Now despite your most sincere attempts to lump me in with those who want to stop GG at the border, that was never my position. Even silly people who lack any credibility have the right to free speech.
So the entire extent of your critique of Mr. Galloway is based on a 90 second clip of him dressed in costume and play acting?
How very "deep".
What about this:
Is Stephen Harper actually a cowboy? I thought he was a kid from Etobicoke?
Mosley said he agreed with Galloway's Canadian supporters that the main reason why border agency officials said he would be barred entry was that "they disagreed with his political views.”
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/02/galloway-canada.html#ixzz11FKhscsl
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/02/galloway-canada.html
Yay! Jason Kenney and con gang thwarted.
Yes... yes... but what was he wearing when he entered Canada?
deleted
I didn't bring up the cat video. Indeed we have had plenty of discussion about the cat video. I actually watched the whole show! This happened several years ago. Get up to speed. The world of Youtube oddities is a wonderful place. All kinds of fun, and sometimes gruesome things there.
This thread however is about the repression of freedom of speech, not Celebrity Big Brother. If you are really interested in rehashing the Celebrity Big Brother show, you might want to start a thread about it, since you seem interested. However, for me, that is done to death.
You seem to be trying to assert that the right to freedom of speech is somehow predicated upon your personal opinion of someones credibility? Perhaps you are suggesting that people who can be shown to appear on freak shows have less right to freedom of speech? Are you saying that dressing up in a cat suit on TV is somehow related to the government decision ot ban Galloway?
Is that it? What is your position, exactly. It is very hard to tell.
The thread is ostensibly about Galloway and the Court decision. That leaves a wide berth as is evidenced by the discussion here.
Look I understand how embarassing it is for Galloway's disciples to have to deal with this issue but as I try to impress upon you credibility means much.
Now despite your most sincere attempts to lump me in with those who want to stop GG at the border, that was never my position. Even silly people who lack any credibility have the right to free speech.
So the entire extent of your critique of Mr. Galloway is based on a 90 second clip of him dressed in costume and play acting?
How very "deep".
What about this:
Is Stephen Harper actually a cowboy? I thought he was a kid from Etobicoke?
I just love the way you make up what I feel and say. What an over-active and mischivious imagination you have. And as for the above picture as obscene as it is , at least he is not in a cat costume licking some poor woman's arm.
The "poor" woman is one of the co-contestants on the game show. Do you actually know anything about the history of that clip or how it came into existance? Is your personal disgust at the activity you see there the sum total of your views on Galloway's position on Israel?
You object to me putting words in your mouth. If you chose to actually say what you mean, or intend to imply, or explain how the above clip relates to the substance of anything that Galloway has said, or believes there might be less need to try and fathom what it is you are trying to say. It seems you have a problem with cat suits and arm licking. Anything else?
George Galloway Comes out Swinging After Arriving in Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/george-galloway-comes-out-s...
"A defiant George Galloway says he may take another run at legal action against Immigration Minister Jason Kenney for branding him a terrorist and trying to muzzle his anti-war views.."
Well this has all been entertaining, but I need to step in with my mod hat on.
jtleroy, you think Galloway's appearance in the YouTube clip was embarrassing / undignified / etc, and that it makes him unfit for any serious political consideration. You've made that point abundantly clear.
Cueball and others disagree.
Since this thread is about Galloway's visit to Canada (he's speaking in Toronto this afternoon) I need to request that this back-and-forth about his "lack of credibility" be dialed back. It's getting tiresome, it's off topic and we did have this discussion on babble months ago when Galloway was denied entry.
Enough. Back on topic please.
The "poor" woman is one of the co-contestants on the game show. Do you actually know anything about the history of that clip or how it came into existance? Is your personal disgust at the activity you see there the sum total of your views on Galloway's position on Israel?
You object to me putting words in your mouth. If you chose to actually say what you mean, or intend to imply, or explain how the above clip relates to the substance of anything that Galloway has said, or believes there might be less need to try and fathom what it is you are trying to say. It seems you have a problem with cat suits and arm licking. Anything else?
Actually its not me with a problem; its Galloway. I will be damned if I can figure out why you feel this need to defend his appearance on this program. It is what it is and folks will take away their own conclusions.
Haven't you been told yet? I think so. If you have nothing else to say then your ridicules BS don't post anymore in this thread.
That video might be silly or embarrassing, but Galloway's presence on the Iranian government's Press TV, where he has a regular show (called "real deal") to cheer the oppressive practices of a fascistic regime is nothing short of criminal. How does Galloway sleep at night knowing that he receives a paycheck from a murderous dictatorship that has sent hundreds of journalists and students alone to jail over the past year, often for no crime other than reporting on human right abuses? But looking back at Galloway's record with uday Hussein and all, I guess he never found a paying dictator he didn't like!
Galloway and Iranian election and democracy (on the Iranian government's Presstv):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgdTcKdt1rg
Iranian students protest Galloway at House of Common
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G145NbP5pP4
Details: http://azarmehr.blogspot.com/2010/03/galloway-begged-police-to-detain-us...
The "poor" woman is one of the co-contestants on the game show. Do you actually know anything about the history of that clip or how it came into existance? Is your personal disgust at the activity you see there the sum total of your views on Galloway's position on Israel?
You object to me putting words in your mouth. If you chose to actually say what you mean, or intend to imply, or explain how the above clip relates to the substance of anything that Galloway has said, or believes there might be less need to try and fathom what it is you are trying to say. It seems you have a problem with cat suits and arm licking. Anything else?
Actually its not me with a problem; its Galloway. I will be damned if I can figure out why you feel this need to defend his appearance on this program. It is what it is and folks will take away their own conclusions.
I am not defending Galloway here, I am attacking you for being a prig. I thought it was silly and stupid. People can be silly and stupid personally, and that has nothing to do with wether or not their position on Israel's is right or wrong. They can even make mistakes! Gosh! Of course the show creators were going to do everything in their power to put Galloway in the most compromising position possible, in order to discredit him. Indeed, I watched that whole program, and what I found most disturbing about Galloway was that basically on a personal level I found him to be a great big bore who has trouble relating to people outside of the niche of a socialist political moral framework.
I found him tedious.
Have you ever cracked a joke that no one else thought was funny? Ever cracka joke at all?
Actually, come to think of it, I rather think the spectacle of a 50 something member of parliament being game enough to take on the challenge of appearing like a total jack-ass on television to be a bit of a scream, and an excelent commentary on the pretentious and uptight institution of the British parliament.
Didn't Ed Braodbent make snow angels with Rick Mercer on This Hour has 22 Minutes?
I couldn't agree more with Cueball. George galloway, who I saw last year by video is a bore. Where I agree with jtleroy is that integrity remains important especially if you are delivering an ethical or moral message. Unfortunately in Mr. Galloway's case you have a person with questionable integrity, questionable ethical values and a bore delivering an important message. It's really too bad.
I've only seen Galloway clips a few times but they never seemed boring to me. I think Cueball's point was not that he is a bore, but that he becomes a bore when removed from his element: political activism and speaking.
As for his integrity and morals, they've always seemed exemplary from the little I know. Maybe some of the detractors here can elaborate on this? (somebody rational, that is, not jtleroy talking about game shows as if they were significant)
Personally, I think of myself as a person of considerable morality and integrity, yet I am hesitant to match myself against a man who defies a military blockade to deliver aid to oppressed people. If you have problems with Galloway's integrity, I assume they must be quite substantial to overshadow this and other actions that are clearly admirable, so it's strange to me that nobody has mentioned them yet. What are these concerns? let's hear them.
Personally, I think of myself as a person of considerable morality and integrity, yet I am hesitant to match myself against a man who defies a military blockade to deliver aid to oppressed people.
:applause:
Galloway's Toronto talk is on the rabble front page links and is well worth a look/listen:
http://www.rabble.ca/rabbletv/program-guide/2010/10/features/george-gall...
Personally, I think of myself as a person of considerable morality and integrity, yet I am hesitant to match myself against a man who defies a military blockade to deliver aid to oppressed people. If you have problems with Galloway's integrity, I assume they must be quite substantial to overshadow this and other actions that are clearly admirable, so it's strange to me that nobody has mentioned them yet. What are these concerns? let's hear them.
I don't know; a person who happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students on that regime's mouthpiece (Iranian Press tv), does not quite seem like a man of morality and integrity to me. But I guess we may have different standards.
Personally, I think of myself as a person of considerable morality and integrity, yet I am hesitant to match myself against a man who defies a military blockade to deliver aid to oppressed people. If you have problems with Galloway's integrity, I assume they must be quite substantial to overshadow this and other actions that are clearly admirable, so it's strange to me that nobody has mentioned them yet. What are these concerns? let's hear them.
I don't know; a person who happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students on that regime's mouthpiece (Iranian Press tv), does not quite seem like a man of morality and integrity to me. But I guess we may have different standards.
From time to time, I too feel this jolt of nostalgia for the good times of the Shah and the Savak.
From time to time, I too feel this jolt of nostalgia for the good times of the Shah and the Savak.
They say the Shah paid well for western journalists who wrote favourable pieces about him. With a talent in kissing torturers' bottoms, Galloway would have made a fortune back then.
Didn't all that crap about Galloway getting payola from Hussien proven to be a bunch of crap. He went in front of a senate sub-comittee and roasted them, as far as I remember it.
George Galloway is a total embarrassment. How can anyone support this lunatic? His TV show owned and financed by Press TV ergo The "Islamic Republic of Iran"- a country that since its "Islamic revolution" in 1979 has been able to move back into the 7th century in only 30 years. Imagine what Irans leaders- ooops dictators can do in the next thirty years. Welcome the dinosaur age!
Back to Galloway: There is one good thing that Mr. Galloway does- he is like the bug killer RAID! When you spray GALLOWAY in a room the bugs come out and the world gets to see just exactly who is behind the lunacy that refers to the only "genuine democracy" in the Middle East as "Apartheid"- as if any Professional Israel Basher has the intellect to understand the definition of "Apartheid" or the fact that "Palestine" is a myth created inorder to demonize Jews- the indegenous people of Israel ergo "Palestina" and deligitmize the State of Israel. Well take heed if you read Hamas'- PLO Charter it states clearly that "There is no room for a Jewish state in an Islamic Middle East"! Really- I thought that this was about "Palestine" and "Palestinians" - many of whom are not only 'Muslim" but are also "Christian" - "Athiest"- and even .... oy.. Gay"..."GAY"! Oh oh...QAIA -Gazdzooks these "turkeys" (QAIA) are invited to a Thanks Giving Dinner in "Gaza" and dont know that they are the main course!
Not only dont "Professional Israel Bashers" not know the definition of "Apartheid" - ( hint:road signs in Saudi Arabia that say this way for 'believers" and that way for "unbelievers') but to "Professional Israel Bashers" - who never saw a map of the British Mandate of "Palestine"- "Palestine" is only the smallest part of "Palestine"- ( Israel is 20,000 sq km in size) where Jews live and not the largest part of 'Palestine"( 110,000 sq km of "Palestine" ergo Jordan- Southern Syria- Lebanon) where Arabs live and where over 2000,000 "Palestinians" are kept in refuge camps - and denied citizenship by their "Arab brethren" in the territory known as "Palestine"!
But hey since when does a "Professional Israel Basher" ever care about objective fact !
They "demonize" Israel and justify it by suggesting that they are acting in the interests of 'Human Rights"- ergo "Palestinian rights"- yet they are 100% silent to the fact that some 450,000 Palestinians - citizens of Kuwait since well before 1947- have been brutally raped- tortured - murdered and finally ETHNICALLY CLEANSED between 1990- 2010.
Today there are less than 10,000 Palestinians left in Kuwait. When questioned about this "genuine" example of "ethnic cleansing " and Genocide" the "Professional Israel Basher " conveniently looks the other way. You know why? Because, like the leaders( tyraants) of Sudan who commit an ongoing Genocide in Darfur, the leaders of Kuwait happen not to be Jewish! And of course because they are not a "Democracy" and are a Theocracy" that governs with impunity as they have not signed on to the Human Race!
In the words of "Palestinian Author and Columnist
Khalid Amayreh
"Kuwait had the right to do it. Palestinians belong to Palestine not to Kuwait" because " every Arab country has the right to expel Palestinians".
Why would any "professional Israeli basher" deny that the US client state of Kuwait ethnically cleansed the Palestinians that another US client state (Israel) originally cleansed? I mean, I am not a professional, and maybe that is why I have always thought that the situation in Kuwait highlighted the brutal reality inflicted on Palestinian Arabs that began with their expulsion from Palestine in 1948.
Didn't all that crap about Galloway getting payola from Hussien proven to be a bunch of crap. He went in front of a senate sub-comittee and roasted them, as far as I remember it.
If I remember correctly He reminded them about Rumsfeld's visit to Saddam; true, but Rumsfled is hardly a man of integrity either.
As I remember it all of the allegations about Galloway personally profitting from his opposition to sanctions and the Iraq war were dropped by the senate sub-committee on the oil for food program, (he was never personally charged and the Committee never took up Galloway's challenge to charge him with perjury} and documents that were found that alleged he personally profited were found to have be of dubious quality, and that Galloway won a libel suit against the newspaper that made those allegation, and no evidence has been brought forward to support those allegations.
Nothing was ever established to show that charities managed by Galloway disbursed funds for anything but the intended purposes, even though it was established that Iraqi business people did contribute to those charities. This, Galloway openly admited in his address to the sub-committee.
The Christian Science Monitor also retracted its story concerning millions of dollars that it said Galloway received from that Iraqi government, and it too later retracted that story, apologizing and concluding that the original documents upon which their story was based were "almost certainly" sophisticated forgeries.
Winning 150000 pounds is a substantial reward, but suing for it and winning in court does not amount to "bottom kissing" in my books. Rather I would say it was the Telegraph that was proved to be engaged in bottom-feeding. We do not know how much in damages the CSM dished out, but I think it is pretty safe to say that someone went through an awful lot of effort to smear Mr. Galloway by alleging that he personally profitted from his dealings with the Baath government in Iraq, an allegation you seem to be repeating.
Well the libel laws in UK are quite different from (and a lot more plaintif-friendly than) US and Canada. However, my main beef with him is his position on Iran, and the fact that he works for an organ of the Iranian government is not something he can deny or hide. I recall we had our debate over the election issue, however considering the news and events since then I am sure you'd agree that a man of integrity would pause before collaborating with a regime that has been condemned by many progressives (no less than Noam Chomsky, Desmond Tutu and many others) for horrifying human right abuses.
The Christian Scenice Monitor is based in the USA so it is US and not British libel law that applied. After he filed suit, they collapsed. It also agreed upon further investigation that the documents were fraudulent.
An extensive Monitor investigation has subsequently determined that the six papers detailed in the April 25 piece are, in fact, almost certainly forgeries.
The Arabic text of the papers is inconsistent with known examples of Baghdad bureaucratic writing, and is replete with problematic language, says a leading US-based expert on Iraqi government documents. Signature lines and other format elements differ from genuine procedure.
Christian Science Monitor
But that is the great thing about smear campaign, the gullible will believe them because they want to believe them and they will repeat the smear forever. Perhaps you want to try again starting with the silly youtube clip, since you don't have anything else to undermine his credibility ad hominem... well, not unless you want to argue the points of his position... but perhaps that is to much for you?
So, no, I don't agree that there is anything substantive to suggest that Mr. Galloway "collaborated" with Saddam Hussein. Meeting with foreign government officials and saying nice things about them and arguing against bombing their countries into oblivion, does not amount to collaboration in my books.
So, no, I don't agree that there is anything substantive to suggest that Mr. Galloway "collaborated" with Saddam Hussein. Meeting with foreign government officials and saying nice things about them and arguing against bombing their countries into oblivion, does not amount to collaboration in my books.
You misunderstood my post. when I said collaboration, I was talking about Iran.
I didn't misunderstand your post at all. You asserted that the reason that Galloway won his libel suit was because of the nature of British libel laws.
You were clearly under the impression that previous accussations against Galloway concerning recieving funds from the Iraqi government were substantive. They were indeed based on complete forgeries, and you and the Christian Science Monitor were duped. Now you are clearly trying to divert attention away from the fact that what you previously believed was proven to be false by suggesting that because he did a few shows for PressTV he is an employee of the Iranian state.
I personally don't care if the US and the Israelis turn Tehran into a pile of smoldering ruins. What amazes me is that anyone from there actually thinks that somehow Iran is to be saved by the west. Indeed, the only thing that concerns the imperial power is power, and unless there is a compliant regieme, they prefer no regieme and ruination of the nation.
Indeed, if their latest exploits are to be any kind of guide the might actually prefer ruination to compliance. Compliance usually requires some kind of give and take, whereas ruination requires taking only.
I personally don't care if the US and the Israelis turn Tehran into a pile of smoldering ruins. What amazes me is that anyone from there actually thinks that somehow Iran is to be saved by the west. Indeed, the only thing that concerns the imperial power is power, and unless there is a compliant regieme, they prefer no regieme and ruination of the nation.
Indeed, if their latest exploits are to be any kind of guide the might actually prefer ruination to compliance. Compliance usually requires some kind of give and take, whereas ruination requires taking only.
You made lots of assumptions about what I must have or have not thought, and most of your assumptions are incorrect. The part of debate that I participated in, was about Galloway's integrity or lack thereof, and I showed that a man so inconsistent who claims to be a supporter of oppressed people while working for another oppressive regime can hardly be a man of integrity. The main focus of my argument was always about Iran and Galloway's working for press TV (while his handshake with Uday Hussein was a sidenote example).
BTW thanks for giving us the only two options of ruin versus compliance! Typical self-centered mentality of a westerner. Fortunately, the world imperial powers (as you put it) are not as dominant as you may think, and as history has shown many times, oppressed nations can find much better options than the choice of cancer versus plague.
For the most part, as far as I know, the main body of the media work that Galloway has done on the PressTV time, all revolved around Palestinian issues, and the Operation Cast Lead where the IOF masseacred over 1500 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, including a large number of civilians and children. I don't see how this qualifies as supporting the opressor, against the oppressed, indeed it seems to me to be the complete opposite.
You seem a little annoyed at being give limited options "ruin' versus "compliance". I thought you might appreciate this logic, since this kind of dual paradigm of "with us or against us", is precisely the logic that lets you arrive at the conclusion that because Galloway's opinions on Israel happen to largely conform to those of the Iranian government, and that they allowed him to air those views on their English language television station, that this therefore means that he and Amedinejad are in league with each other.
Indeed the former Prime Minister of Britain's wife's half sister has also done similar work with PressTV. I guess you would have us believe that members of Tony Blair's family are agents of the Iranian state as well? Given this one might argue the obverse. If one was really to take the logic of your guilt by association accussation to its proper conclusion one could say that PressTV has been infiltrated by persons with links to the British government opposed to Iran, and is working as a propaganda arm of the British elite.
'Gorgeous George' To Sue Ottawa Over Privacy - National Post Front Page
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Gorgeous+George+Ottawa+over+pri...
"Canada was once admired and loved around the world, but is now seen as 'no more than an embassy for Benjamin Netanyahu,' and 'a trumpet for the most extreme Israeli politicians,' the anti-war former British MP told an audience yesterday in a downtown Toronto United Church.."
Di Manno: George Galloway Not A Terrorist Just A Holy Terror - Toronto Star
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/870118--dimanno-george-galloway-...
"George Galloway is not a terrorist. A holy terror, foaming-at-the-mouth blovian, one-trick pony, anti-war crusader and Israel demonizer..'I hate terrorism, be it by a man with a beard in a tunnel in Tora Bora or a man in a suit in the White House!' Galloway thundered Sunday to rapturous applause from an audience of some 600 or so Galloway Groupies, a full house nuthouse of acolytes who finally got the opportunity to hear their idol speak...the Rush Limbaugh loudmouth of the ultra-left...just a demogogue darling of the idiot-ocracy.."
George Galloway Challenges Jason Kenney to 'Go Five Rounds' in a Public Debate
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/george-falloway-challenges-...
"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Farber Canadian Jewish Congress
Jason Kenney Refuses to Stroke George Galloway's Chin
http://theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/jason-kenney-re...
"Minister Kenney has no interest in getting entangled in another one of George Galloway's desperate cries for someone - anyone - to notice him.." Jason Kenney's Communications Director
Jason Kenney should resign over his actions re: the Galloway file
kennyj@parl.gc.ca
pm@pm.gc.ca
You seem a little annoyed at being give limited options "ruin' versus "compliance". I thought you might appreciate this logic, since this kind of dual paradigm of "with us or against us", is precisely the logic that lets you arrive at the conclusion that because Galloway's opinions on Israel happen to largely conform to those of the Iranian government, and that they allowed him to air those views on their English language television station, that this therefore means that he and Amedinejad are in league with each other.
That's not true. By that logic, should I call every supporter of Palestinian cause an agent of Iranian government? Many high profile supporters of Iranian democracy movement are also strong supporters of the Palestinian cause: Hamid Dabashi, Desmond Tutu, Noam Chomsky,.. In fact, Ahmadinejad's position on Palestine is one that has been rejected even by Palestinians.
As per links that I posted, Galloway did not limit himself to the Palestinian causes on press tv and other speeches but also openly supported the Iranian government in cracking down on the protesters whiel calling it a "democracy". Obviously if all Galloway had done was to support Palestinians on Iranian Press TV (like many anti-zionist groups around the world do), I would still question his choice of venue but would not consider him an agent of the Iranian government.
'agent of the Iranian government'
...I think we should be touching bottom any time now.
You seem a little annoyed at being give limited options "ruin' versus "compliance". I thought you might appreciate this logic, since this kind of dual paradigm of "with us or against us", is precisely the logic that lets you arrive at the conclusion that because Galloway's opinions on Israel happen to largely conform to those of the Iranian government, and that they allowed him to air those views on their English language television station, that this therefore means that he and Amedinejad are in league with each other.
That's not true. By that logic, should I call every supporter of Palestinian cause an agent of Iranian government? Many high profile supporters of Iranian democracy movement are also strong supporters of the Palestinian cause: Hamid Dabashi, Desmond Tutu, Noam Chomsky,.. In fact, Ahmadinejad's position on Palestine is one that has been rejected even by Palestinians.
As per links that I posted, Galloway did not limit himself to the Palestinian causes on press tv and other speeches but also openly supported the Iranian government in cracking down on the protesters whiel calling it a "democracy". Obviously if all Galloway had done was to support Palestinians on Iranian Press TV (like many anti-zionist groups around the world do), I would still question his choice of venue but would not consider him an agent of the Iranian government.
Ok. How does comparing the Iranian election to the fraudulent Florida vote that won George Bush his first term in office, and then saying that such did not deligitimize the American government in the eyes of the west amount to supporting Amedinejad's regieme? Saying that Iranian democracy has "come a long way" in that context is neither to deny allegations of fraud, or to openly support Amedinejad. It is actually more a statement that charges western critics of hypocrisy when they denounce fraud in Iran, but ignore it in the US.
The Christian Scenice Monitor is based in the USA so it is US and not British libel law that applied.
If the matter was tried in the UK:
Mr Galloway's solicitor Mark Bateman told Mr Justice Eady at London's High Court that the allegations which appeared in the Christian Science Monitor last April were "false and without foundation".
Then UK law would certainly apply.
So, the claim made by the Christian Science Monitor that the documents were actually discovered to be forgeries was a lie that Galloway insisted that it should print as part of their out of court settlement?
The Christian Science Monitor's later investigation that revealed the documents to be forgeries doesn't really have anything at all do with the fact that the matter was heard in the UK according to UK law, not U.S. law.
The reiteration of a debating point originaly intended to imply that allegation that were not true, were true serves what point in a discussion about wether or not Galloway was a paid agent of the Iraqi state?
You made an error in thinking that U.S. law would apply to a British citizen's libel suit against the Christian Science Monitor simply because that publication is based in the U.S. I corrected this error - nothing more, nothing less.
So, in other words you agree that there was no substantive proof that Galloway recieved funds from the Iraqi governement, and that the document are actually evidence that there is a very evolved campaign to smear him?
Planting forged documents in Iraqi government buildings later to be found by investigators shortly after the US occupation began, gives us some clues as to possible suspects. But of course some people are more intersted in talking about embarassing Youtube clips, and US and UK libel law.
This bears repeating:
"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Faber Canadian Jewish Congress
This isn't an example of a mere mishtake, Farber is actively lying in a sleazy attempt to smear Galloway as a terrorist.
Most definitely. And maybe Farber and CJC can join Jason Kenney and the Government of Canada on the receiving end of Galloway's contemplated lawsuit?
sanizadah said:
"But I guess we may have different standards."
I can't imagine how you would know what my standards are.
I freely admitted that I didn't have much information on this topic and asked people to explain why they disliked Galloway so much, since up to then no explanations had been given. Your strange eagerness to smear me doesn't bode well for the credibility of your claims. In fact, Cueball seems to be demolishing them quite handily. You've gone from "happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students", to " once called Iran a democracy". Bit of a gulf between those two, I'd say. And once again Cueball disagrees with even this claim.
I am interested in hearing your response to this: "How does comparing the Iranian election to the fraudulent Florida vote that won George Bush his first term in office, and then saying that such did not deligitimize the American government in the eyes of the west amount to supporting Amedinejad's regieme?"
This bears repeating:
"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Faber Canadian Jewish Congress
This isn't an example of a mere mishtake, Farber is actively lying in a sleazy attempt to smear Galloway as a terrorist.
A lie? Don't think so. There is plenty of evidence that galloway gave cash to Hamas. And whether you like it or not Hamas is a terrorist group so identified by Canada, Usa, UK etc. ee for yourself http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2060.htm
Most definitely. And maybe Farber and CJC can join Jason Kenney and the Government of Canada on the receiving end of Galloway's contemplated lawsuit?
I guess he decided to wait until he had a clear case. Now he has one: backed up by a ruling by a Federal court judge stating that he was not delivering material aid to terrorists, as alleged by Kenny, Farber and that assimilated Jewish fascist guy whose a fan of mass murderer Baruch Goldstien, whose name I can't remember now because I am in a particularly good mood.
As Galloway said in his talk, Hamas was elected in the only free and fair democratic election ever held in the Arab world and the only people entitled to choose the leadership of the Palestinian people are the Palestinian people themselves. Here, a federal judge just ruled essentially that Galloway is not a terrorist or a supporter of terrorism. Clearly, obviously and self-evidently, Israel is the "terrorist group" not Palestinians or their elected government. That various imperialists and their lapdogs like Canada define Palestinian resistance as "terrorism" indicts only the accusers not the resisters. Fuck them, Jason Kenny, Bernie Farber and anyone else who attempts to argue such oppression is justified or right.
This bears repeating:
"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Faber Canadian Jewish Congress
This isn't an example of a mere mishtake, Farber is actively lying in a sleazy attempt to smear Galloway as a terrorist.
A lie? Don't think so. There is plenty of evidence that galloway gave cash to Hamas. And whether you like it or not Hamas is a terrorist group so identified by Canada, Usa, UK etc. ee for yourself http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2060.htm
Pffft! MemriTV is an outfit run by "former" Mossad agents. Please! And I thought you were concerned about Galloway's credibility.
Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.
Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.
Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian.
Dressing up like a pussy cat might make you look silly, but posting media stories filtered through Mossad front organizations makes you look like twice the fool for trying. Go peddle that tripe over on the Sun comments section or something. The only reason that its not mistranslated is because the original video is in english already. Their Arabic translations are often fanciful to say the least.
In anycase that speech and that evidence was part of the material which the Federal Court judge used to determine that Galloway was not a terrorist.
Anything new? Did Memri come up with a set of documents found in an Iraqi government building showing that he recieved 10 million dollars from Sadam Hussien's government... oh sorry, tried that already... A copy of a cancelled cheque signed by Ahmed Yassin? A copy of Mein Kempf autographed "in solidarity" by Rantisi with trace amounts of blood matching that of a suicide bomber? A picture of Galloway throwing a rock at an Israeli check point,.. anything?
I really enjoyed some of Galloway's one liners and remarks on the rabble live streaming video. Here is a sampling
Galloway made reference to the decision as "the greatest caning by a judge of a government minister in history." He went on to discuss this "judicial thrashing of Mr. Kenny by the judge" in very interesting and informative terms. Minister Kenny, said G, is one of those people who are "always ready to fight to the last drop ... of somebody else's blood." Galloway rightly challenged the Minister of Censorship in a number of ways, including a "challenge to a public debate anywhere, anytime, anyplace". Said Galloway, "Jason Kenny, you can run but you can't hide." And so on.
"He started lying about me ... and I'm never going to stop telling the truth about him."
Now, while I haven't heard the whole video, there is one other line that bears repeating. It's quite important.
Oh yea. That's important. Conservatives and other losers take note. Your ass just got kicked. ha ha. How's it feel? Sore ass? Rest assured, Galloway will be coming back to deliver a further caning of his own. I can hardly wait. It should be informative, entertaining, and likely to result in the firing of yet another of Harper's Gauleiters. Mmm mmm good.
and that assimilated Jewish fascist guy whose a fan of mass murderer Baruch Goldstien, whose name I can't remember now because I am in a particularly good mood.
Meir Weinstein. The activities of the JDL have been described by the FBI, in congressional testimony before and after 9/11, as terrorist. (The organization itself is not listed, note.)
Ah, Alykhan "Infandous" Velshi, the smirky popinjay who is Kenney's "communications director" and who led the public campaign last year against Galloway. It seemed fairly clear then that he was being fed information from the JDL -- tsk tsk. So that's where the catsuit story is coming from -- it figures. Some of us comment here for free, y'know.
Geeze. Way to ruin my day.
I freely admitted that I didn't have much information on this topic and asked people to explain why they disliked Galloway so much, since up to then no explanations had been given. Your strange eagerness to smear me doesn't bode well for the credibility of your claims. In fact, Cueball seems to be demolishing them quite handily. You've gone from "happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students", to " once called Iran a democracy". Bit of a gulf between those two, I'd say. And once again Cueball disagrees with even this claim.
Actually, I stand by all statements I made, and Cueball chose to selectively respond to some minor points he found there. First regarding paycheck, it is a fact that Galloway has a weekly show on the Iranian pressTV in which he continuously sings the praise of the Iranian government not just with regard to Palestine but also regarding the 2009 election and its aftermath events. Even Cueball could not dispute that. Now just using that venue for any purpose is shameful - kinda like having a program on Nazi tv sitting with Goebbels back in 30s while claiming to be an anti-racist! However when the person in question actually goes out of way to sing the praise of his employer too, that is hardly a model of integrity.
In addition to his support on pressTV program, in his numerous speeches in the UK he has continuously defended the Iranian regime against the protest movement, including the house of common where he was confronted by Iranian students, he accuses them to be monarchists and terrorists (see the link I posted before- ironically one of the Iranians accused by him is the socialist activist son of a prominent leftist author who was in prison during the Shah) Galloway's position toward the current Iranian regime has always been very clear.
Now keep in mind that my debate with you was about the question of "integrity". Do you consider those who call Israel "the best democracy of middle east" and close their eyes on Palestinians suffering, men of integrity? Iran is even far less of a democracy, and contrary to Galloway's statement, has not been a "democracy in progress". Presidential elections have been held in Iran for 30 years; the first one back in 1980, in which a wide range of candidates were allowed to stand with very little screening. Since then, the situation kept worsening. In 1997 a less known candidate (Khatami) even managed to beat the regime's favorite. So the claim that somehow the 2009 election in Iran was a sign of "progress toward democracy" is completely false.
The only difference this time was that in the first day after the election - even before any mass demonstration - the entire top executives of the party that supported Ahmadinejad's opponent were arrested, then the campaign workers of the parties, then almost all student activists, then ordinary people who were just showing up on the street with the opponent's green signs. The total number of arrested - according to the regime's judiciary - was over 10,000. Many who just walked in a demonstration received two-year to 5-year jail sentences. Those who broke a window or throw a rock were accused of "fighting God" and received death sentences. All newspapers belonging to other factions and parties but one were shut down. The above information is all from government official sources, not the opposition. The estimate on the number of killed people ranges from 37 (according to government officials - 3 confirmed deaths from torture in jail) to over 300 by opposition sources.
And then you are telling me a man who on his program continues to support the regime that was the perpetrator of this whole ordeal is "a man of integrity"? I think not.
I freely admitted that I didn't have much information on this topic and asked people to explain why they disliked Galloway so much, since up to then no explanations had been given. Your strange eagerness to smear me doesn't bode well for the credibility of your claims. In fact, Cueball seems to be demolishing them quite handily. You've gone from "happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students", to " once called Iran a democracy". Bit of a gulf between those two, I'd say. And once again Cueball disagrees with even this claim.
Actually, I stand by all statements I made, and Cueball chose to selectively respond to some minor points he found there. First regarding paycheck, it is a fact that Galloway has a weekly show on the Iranian pressTV in which he continuously sings the praise of the Iranian government not just with regard to Palestine but also regarding the 2009 election and its aftermath events. Even Cueball could not dispute that. Now just using that venue for any purpose is shameful - kinda like having a program on Nazi tv sitting with Goebbels back in 30s while claiming to be an anti-racist! However when the person in question actually goes out of way to sing the praise of his employer too, that is hardly a model of integrity.
Listen I am not an avid Galloway watcher, so I haven't had the chance to go over every statement he has made about the Iranian election. You however offered an example by way of a Youtube clip that you seemed to think was a definiative example of Galloway's support for the regieme of Amedinejad. I didn't need to dispute anything. I just needed to look at the clip to see what he was saying for content, and he basically compared the election to the Florida vote fraud and then went on to say that the fraud did not deligitimize the US in eyes of the west, and so on.
You have been asked to bring forward evidence repeatedly to support your assertions. Repeatedly you written statement vary with the established facts. Starting from trying to assert that there was substance to the allegation that he was basically an agent of the Iraqi state, an allegation you tried to say was proven false because of the problems with British libel law, even though the Christian Science Monitor, one of the source of the allegations established upon further investigation that it had been duped by forgeries, you then said that he has made statements supporting the Amedinejad regieme, and again upon examination the allegation seems to be false.
Now Amedinejad is Hitler, and Galloway is Lord Haw Haw.
Do you have anything other than the above mentioned Youtube clip to support your continued allegations, or is that it?
So, jtleroy is Jaku. Or at least he posts on that magical computer which spawns so many creative Israeli apologists. So he's gone. Sorry it took us so long to out him.
Listen I am not an avid Galloway watcher, so I haven't had the chance to go over every statement he has made about the Iranian election. You however offered an example by way of a Youtube clip that you seemed to think was a definiative example of Galloway's support for the regieme of Amedinejad. I didn't need to dispute anything. I just needed to look at the clip to see what he was saying for content, and he basically compared the election to the Florida vote fraud and then went on to say that the fraud did not deligitimize the US in eyes of the west, and so on.
Cueball, the only part of my post with regard to Saddam and Galloway was a two-word phrase "paying dictator" which you focused on. Could you kindly also give your opinion about Galloway's relationship with the other paying dictator where there is no dispute - his presence on the Iranian presstv?
Regarding the election I gave two clips and a link as examples, and a quick search on youtube beings up many hits that I haven't gone through one by one. However even that clip had sufficient evidence in my view: There is no logical comparison of Florida vote and the Iranian election. Al Gore did not end up in jail, nor his supporters. I don't recall anyone in Florida sentenced to death because of the election. If this comparison -as well as the statement about Iranian "democracy"- was not made to whitewash the crimes of the Iranian regime in the aftermath of the election, then I don't know what "support" means. For example, in your view if someone in response to the issue of Palestinians suffering, every time replies that " But Israel is the only democracy in middle east", is he not supporting Israel? In that sense, how is the position of Galloway toward Iran any different from the position of a Fox News commentator toward Israel?
How does this statement accord with your views on Galloway's alliegiance to Amedinejad and his wholesale support of the repression of the protest movement:
Galloway on PressTV Regarding the accussation that the protestor are agents of foreign powers
As for the Florida election results, Al Gore caved into the demand of the Republican party, and no mass protest movement was spawned to defend his rights. In this, Iranians were far from complacent, and the opposition intransigent. We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Gore had actively pressed his claim, and had a movement of protest been spawned to protest, closing down major cities in the USA.
I imagine the result might not have been too different.
Now Amedinejad is Hitler, and Galloway is Lord Haw Haw.
For clarification, that monkey (Ahmadinejad) is just a bellboy and a show. He takes orders from the Hitler-like religious elite behind him.
So we were "entitled". What a complete whitewash. Then how come 10,000 of us ended up in jail or dead either by bullets or under torture? He forgot to mention that? or that's part of the democratic process that he says "has come a long way in Iran"?
How do your construe saying that Iranians are allowed to express their views through public demonstrations as support for having demonstrators rounded up and arrested for doing so?
sanizadeh, I think the discussion about Iran is an important one to have, and I'd join in if this thread weren't coming to an end shortly.
Some of us write carefully about Iran at the moment because we are watching U.S.-Israeli propaganda ramp up to an attack on Iran, and we cannot believe that that will be a good thing. It is not going to help any Iranian to have a bomb dropped on her head. See what happened to the liberated women of Baghdad the last time that was tried. Also, for several years now there has been clear evidence of U.S. COINTEL operations in Iran, going in through Baluchistan. It's hard for us to filter that news from this distance, but many of us are now just on permanent suspicion alert.
Can you see that?
I just love the way you make up what I feel and say. What an over-active and mischivious imagination you have. And as for the above picture as obscene as it is , at least he is not in a cat costume licking some poor woman's arm.
I can't believe I am going to give CueBall credit for this.. LOL.....
Sorry Dude, but put your cat back in the hat, your lack of argument has just proven to be a Shallow Hal.
I forgot that Harper looks like a friggin idiot in this picture. What a goof.
That anyone has to debate the motives of George Galloway is in of it self an example of blatant ignorance to the facts! He is a dysunctional at best and a supporter of terrorists and theocracies at worst. The worst is the most likely choice!
Israel is not "expanionist" or "Apartheid"! You want to see an eample of "expansionist and Apartheid"? Look to the "factual" history of Islam and how it conquered over 50 non Islam countries in the Middle East and North Africa- look to how Churches and Synagogues have been converted into Mosques throughout the Middle East. Notable are the "Hagia Sophia" and" Temple Mount".
You want to see examples of "Apartheid" in the Middle East and North Africa? Look to Saudi Arabias highways whose roads say " THIS WAY FOR BELIEVERS AND THAT WAY FOR UNBELIEVERS"!
How about the ongoing brutal "honour killings" in "Palestine"?At least 13 innocent "Palestinian" girls were murdered int he 1st month of 2010 in Gaza and the West Bank- source: the anti zionist "Palestine Think Tank"! Yet world outrage is set aside exclusively for Israel when they act in self defence of a "flotilla filled with terrorists" !
Why not google "12 billion missing" from the "anti zionist" "Palestine Think Tank" which describes how Abbas, Jordan and terrorist leaders have robbed Palestinians if Billions in international aid. The UNRA decicated eclusivley to Palestinians gets more money and has as many employees( 22000) as does the entire United Nations which provides less aid to all of Africa than to "Palestinians"!
There are lies and than there are "bloddy lies"- the latter best describes how the left and the worst criminal theocracies behave in regard to the treatement of the only genuine democracy in the middle east- ISRAEL!
By the way has it occcurred to anyone- left wing apologists in particular- that "Palestine" to these people happens to be the smallest part of "Palestine" ( Israel is apro. 20,0000 sq km out of 130,000 sq km that is in fact the Palestine Mandate) where Jews live and not the largest part of "Palestine"( Jordan ergo Trans Jordan - a gift from the Brits to the Hashemite for supporting their battle with the Ottoman-Southern Syria and Lebanon) where over 1000,000 Palestinians are kept as refuges by their Arabbrethren in the territory know as "Palestine"!
The hypocrosy could not be more obvious: Hamas ' and PLO Charter states " There is no room for a Jewish state in an Islamic Middle East"!
Really ? I thought that this was about a "Palestinian state " and not an "Islamic Middle East"? In addition how has it escaped the sharp left wing Christians that "Palestinians " are not only Muslim but many - well not that many as they have also been demonized and persecuted being forced to leave- "Palestinians " are not Muslim but are Gays , Christians etc.... gee I wonder how they feel about beeing forced to abide to Sharia Law in "Palestine"!
Israel is held to a standard that not one "Arab country " could possibly measure up to...in fact Israel just found Israeli soldiers guilty of "using a Palestinian child as a shield"- the fact is that half of Gaza is made up of "Palestinian children" testament to Islam that dicatates to have as many children as possible- and of course we know how Hamas uses and trains children to become "Child Soldiers" !
Wonder why Kuwait pop of Palestinians has bbeen decimated by Kuwaits ethnic cleansing while Gaza's Palestinian population has been described as " one of the nost desnley populated in the world"- The latter is referred to as "ETHNIC CLEANSING" and the Former is ignored altogether!
One thing for sure- Israel is a great democracy and those who are critical of her would never pass the test of close scrutiny that Israel faces in spite of its disproportionately tiny size and adherence to human rights while under an obvious and voluminous existential threat !
Ok if Israel is not expansionist how come it has doubled in size since 1948? When they say they "made the deserts bloom", they were serious maybe? The deserts actually grew in size?
One thing for sure- Israel is a great democracy and those who are critical of her would never pass the test of close scrutiny that Israel faces in spite of its disproportionately tiny size and adherence to human rights while under an obvious and voluminous existential threat !
NDPP:
"Great democracy?" No. A country led by war criminals, pirates and thieves. How many UN resolutions is Israel in violation of at last count? You forgot to mention that those murderous mad kid-killers - the IDF is 'the most moral army in the world'. Sorry Zionoid no sale here today.
Where do these Ziofreaks come from? As soon as one sock-puppet is banned a new one shows up.
I like that one about Trans-Jordan being a British gift to the Hashemites. As if the Brits had a right to hand over others' land to a lackey, never mind trying to curry favour with The Rothschilds and other rich western Jews in 1917 by pledging to create a Jewish home in Palestine.
It's funny how the locals are never consulted about this sort of thing.
If you understood the history of "Palestine" - beginning with the word "Palestina" a word that has nothing what so ever to do with Arabs and everything to do with Israel and Jews ergo Judea - and the ongoing ambitions of Jew haters to deligitmize the state of Israel - Romans renamed Judea "PALESTINA"- that continues to this day-
Move to the 1922 Balfour declaration and the British Palestine Mandate which promised to return the territory known as Israel = ergo Palestine- back to Jews.
The British betrayed the Jews inorder to enlist the help of the Hashemite Kingdom( Saudis) inorder to fight the Ottomans- as a reward they would give the Hashemite what was re named Trans Jordan - to day Jordan which is in fact 76% of the territory referred to as "Palestine"- you should rent the movie "Lawrence of Arabia".
So giving that fact Jews accepted far less than was promised to them- and no one should be debating the fact that Jerusalem is a Jewish city - Palestinians/ Muslims pray with their backs away from Jerusalem and the Q'uran does not mention Jerusalem evenb one time- in contrast Jews built Jerusalem and the Temple Mount just as the Christians built the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople- ergo Turkey that was conquered by Muslims and converted to a Mosque- it would be objective to say that Israel currently is "Jewish in every sense of the word historically archeologically speaking- ergo coins- literature- archetecture- artifacts- dead sea scrolls- the fact that Jews pray towards Jerusalem and that the Tanach mentions Jerusalem well over 700 times.
Israel /Jews accepts to have a state that is not "130,000 sq km " that was promised . the size of "Palestine"- but only 20,000 sq km of that 130,000 sq km.
IS 20,000 SQ KM OU OF 130,000 SQ KM 'EXPANSIONIST"? ADD THAT UNDER ISRAELI GOVERNANCE EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO THEIR RELIGION AND THE RIGHT TO WROSHIP AS THEY PLEASE.
EVERYONE EXCEPT JEWS WHO ARE DENIED THE RIGHT TO THE TEMPLE MOUNT AS WAS HE CASE FOR THE POPE WHO WENT TO TURKEY WHILE MUSLISM CRINGED THAT HE WOULD MAKE THE SIGN OF THE CROSS AT THE HAGIA SOPHIA A 1000 YEAR OLD CHURCH AND ONE OF CHRISTENDOMS GREATEST!
As for "PALESTINIAN STATE HOOD" even Palestinians/Arabs agree that there was never any Palestinian nation or ambitions of Palestinian nationhood pre 1967 after the failed attack on Israel by Jordan , Egypt, Syria.
Back to 1948- if you have ther time to study the history Jews accepted the United Nations proposal and the Arabs refused- so there was no "contract" that existed for any specific territorial borders between a "Palestinian state " and Israel.
Going further- If Arabs would have won the war in 1948- 67 - 72 we would not be discussing the possibility of Jewish rights in Israel as we are currently not discussing Palestinian rights in Kuwait. The reality is that Jews would have been "ethnically cleansed" as they have been every where in the Arab Middle East.
But the thing that is really disturbing about "professional Israel bashers" is how they neglect the fact that "Palestine" ergo Jordan- Southern Syria and Lebanon keep "Palestinians " in open air refuge camps in the territory that is being disputed as a "PALESTINIAN TERRITORY"! These are the "largest " parts of "Palestine" where Arabs - the brethren of "Palestinians" live and where some 76% of Jordan is in fact "Palestinian"- and where in Syria and Lebanon "Palestinians are treated with utmost brutality by their so called "brethren "- look back some 3-4 years ago when Lebanese militia surrounded a Palestinian refuge camp( "Palestinian refuges in "Palestine" sick) and began shooting at them indescriminantly!
So when we speak of "Israeli expansionism" why are professional Israel bashers" not pointing to how Israel left Gaza? In fact Bill Gates and other
Jewish philanthropists paid for the thousands of high tech green houses built by Israelis that employed thousands of Palestinians and generated over one hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Hamas destroyed these hot houses inorder to make certain that Israel would be demonized by the world so any help for Palestinians is contrary to their ambitions of deligitmizing Israel and turning the entire Arab Middle East into an Islamic Middle East with "no room for a Jewish state"!
With every conscession Israel is rewarded with terror. Nice eh?
How is it that professional Israel bashers say "this is not about Jews this is about Israel"...really? Than why is it that Palestinians face the death penalty if they sell a home to a Jew from let's say Iraq and not an Israeli? So the fact remains that the 'peace process" is about thhe continued ethnic cleansing of Jews which began in the Arab Middle East and ended at Israels door step!
As for those of you who claim "Zionism " is evil...really? Moses was the first Zionist", he brought Jews to the "promised" land well before the invention of Islam in the 7th century and Palestinians in 1967!
Yes GAZA is under a siege or embargo- so? Cuba also has been under a siege and Castro has not launched even a pea shooter towards America let alone 12000 rockets and counting over the last 8 years that continue unabated to this day...add what the hell is Hebollah doing in the north of Israel launching attacks into Israel?
Lebanon was invaded by Muslims with the after math of Black September in 1975 after Arafat / PLO failed to assasinate King Hussein of Jordan.
Christian Lebanon took in Palestinians- and as a sign of gratitude they got a civil war with Muslims killing Christians en masse... so who to blame? The Jews of course.Well ask Lebanese Christian Brigitte Gabriel what she thinks?
Arabs/Palestinians have enough territory but will never have enough because of the tenets of Islam which demand more and more territory- go to any where in the world where there is a large Muslim population and you will see a demand for independance and more territory- even if it means killing Buddhists in Buddhist Thailand oir Christians in Christian Phillipines- or Christians in Sudan!
In addition we all know that the flotillas are a lie- that Palestinians - leaders- are flush with cash from the UNRA and the international community. No one is starving in GAZA-
In fact on June 01 2010 the CBC had to retract a lie when they reported the events of the Mavi Marmara. Peter Mansbridge quoted Amnesty International and states that "GAZA HAD ONE OF THE HIGHEST INFANT MORTALITY RATES IN THE WORLD"- YET ANOTHER BLATANT LIE!
The source used by Amnesty was the "CIA WORLD FACT BOOK"- you can google it and see for your self that Gaza has a lower infant mortality rate than both Turkey and Iran - and that Palestinians actually have a higher standard of living than most of the Arabs in the Arab Middle East.
THE CBC AIRED A RETRACTION!
Add to this the CBC investigated the Mavi Marmara and found that the flotiilla was to blame for the incident last May!
So is 20,000 sq km of land- smaller than the state of Vermont - considered "expansionist" in contrast to the original 130,000 sq km that is in fact the territory referred to as "Palestine"?
All depends on whether you hate Jews or not! And we all know the 3500 year history of Jew hate that we now have coined "anti semitism"!
this guy's pushing the same gobbledygook:
Immigration Minister Still Harbors Terrorist Concerns About George Galloway
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/immigration-minister-still-...
"Immigration Minister Jason Kenney is making no applogies for his office's involvement in keeping a controversial former British politician out of Canada for a speaking tour. Mr. Kenney sasys he is still concerned about George Galloway giving money to "an illegal anti-Semitic violent terrorist organization called Hamas'"..
Wonder what they would use for an excuse if Israel had been placed in Africa? And people wonder why I am anti religious
Judaism is a religion - Zionism is a political ideology. The two are not the same. Jewish traditionalists like the True Torah Jews denounce Zionism as having 'hijacked' Judaism for their own evil ends
Hey Monabaker still there? Here's more on the 'great democracy' of Israel'. Even a Zionist judge can't erase the truth completely:
Goldstone Facts Chapter 10 - Indiscriminate Killing by Israeli Armed Forces Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpSDDz-vqMA
It's too bad that this turd "Monabaker" has pirated the real name of a real-life courageous defender of the rights of the Palestiinian people:
http://monabaker.com/
It would be a lot easier to post here if well-meaning babblers didn't engage our political adversaries (jtleroy, MCsquared, Gus Williams, etc. etc. etc. etc.) as if they were just slightly misguided progressive types who will be pushed to the side of the angels by just one little more fact or emotional appeal. They should be met by ridicule, taunts, and (when that grows tiresome) silence.
Geez, I come in here to close for length and look what happend. He's not even jtleroy's phoenix: he's a bird of his own creation.
Before I close, I should note that rabble's features editor and veteran journalist Cathryn Atkinson just debated the lovely Terry Glavin on an Alberta talk radio show. She basically laughed in the face of Glavin's circus act and he was none-to-pleased. Neither, I expect, were many of the show's listeners. I'm not saying Monabaker is one, but the coverage of Galloway in the media is increasingly including rabble as a radical foil to the sober, balanced and mainstream thought which paints Gorgeous George as a terrorist-supporting fascist. So I guess what I'm saying is: strap yourselves in. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
Closing for length.