Gun Registry - back in the news (thread #2)
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Comments
Unionist, I know we have had this discussion before, and probably talked it to death. And I am a supporter of registration as you are. I also see your position, even if I consider it unworkable, which is why I'm not making similar comments about registering kitchen cutlery, or serving bar pints in saran baggies. And I have already given you more detailed reasons for my informed position WRT animals.
More importantly, I think that sort of ban would probably make any new legislation just as much of a lightning rod as the Liberals' handling of it. And as I have told you already, I consider the Liberals just as responsible for the dismantling of the registry as the Harperites and the gun lobby.
It would be different if a city ban would mean absolute prevention, but it is not that. A woman was killed here just a few months ago by an assassin who came from out of town and tragically had the wrong address.
Because they are dangerous and there is no hunting allowed in any city or exurban area. That leaves no reason to have a gun of any kind in an urban area. You want to target shoot then pay for a locker at a shooting range and leave your deadly toys there.
Because they are dangerous and there is no hunting allowed in any city or exurban area. That leaves no reason to have a gun of any kind in an urban area. You want to target shoot then pay for a locker at a shooting range and leave your deadly toys there.
Because they are dangerous and there is no hunting allowed in any city or exurban area. That leaves no reason to have a gun of any kind in an urban area. You want to target shoot then pay for a locker at a shooting range and leave your deadly toys there.
Because they are dangerous and there is no hunting allowed in any city or exurban area. That leaves no reason to have a gun of any kind in an urban area. You want to target shoot then pay for a locker at a shooting range and leave your deadly toys there.
I don't think this is a practical idea at all. I think you underestimate the amount of citizens that own firearms.
You want to store thousands and thousands of firearms at local shooting ranges? It would take millions of dollars to renovate the facilities in order to acomodate this, not that the facilities would even HAVE the room in the first place. They wouldn't.
It would make these shooting ranges a prime target for thieves and criminals. My range has no security, it's a wooden building. To get to it you hop over a little fence walk up the path and it's not locked.
And what about collectors? Their firearms are often investments unto themselves, getting them to store their prized collections (often kept in a strict climate controled environment) at a firearm range would be a pretty big fight.
It's not a practical or fesable plan at all.
We don't let people own certain breeds of dogs in my city. Somethings are inherently dangerous and should be avoided. I am just saying what I think. Seems to me that if you ban home storage of guns in urban areas then someone will build the proper facilities to store weapons and rent out lockers at a profit.
Toews is losing it. His excesses will help do the Cons in.
Holster 'back-door' gun registries
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2012/05/20120510-124034.html
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/ontario-stores-keep-records-of-gun-buyers-but-province-will-not-set-up-registry-151008615.html
[Just repeating my post from the other obsolete thread - let's use this one for continuity...]
Toronto City Council demands Ontario registry data be preserved
Doug Ford voted with the majority against Rob Ford. Luckily Council regulations bar handguns from meetings.
Court grants Québec's injunction request, and gives feds 30 days to hand over the data!
And here's an English language story:
Ottawa ordered to hand over long-gun registry data collected in Quebec
A gutsy decision (that I wholeheartedly support) that will in all likelihood go all the way up to the Supreme Court.
EDIT: BTW, the Canadian Press story is incorrect. The court did not grant an injunction. It declared the provision of the Act to abolish the long-gun registry that provided for destruction of registry data to be of no force and effect as far as it relates to Quebec (to keep things simple).
Thanks, Bärlüer. Meanwhile, Harper continues to stroke the gun-fetishists:
Conservatives repeal long-deferred gun-show regulations aimed at sponsors
For those who are interested, here is the full text of the court decision (en français).
Ottawa will appeal Quebec court ruling on the long-gun registry
I'll simply adopt one of the comments following the article:
Mounties can’t explain projected savings of scrapping the long-gun registry
Vic Toews quote::The savings of scrapping the long gun registry are north of a billion dollars!
TOTAL BS!!!! An audit was done in march of 2005 at that point the total 10 year cost of the WHOLE gun control program was 946 million.
The long gun registry"" PART "" of the gun control program DID NOT COST A BILLION GD DOLLARS!! THAT IS A TOTAL BAREFACED GD LIE!!!
Yeah I'm not wild about the gun registry as it is. But I do agree with someone who said that the registry belongs to all Canadians and not the "Harper Government of Canada." Hands off, eh.
Most police I've dealt with don't even understand Canadian firearm laws and regulations.
On anniversary of shooting, Quebec vows to create its own gun registry
Forgive me for using wikipedia as a quick reference but I believe it will still illustrate my point.
Marc Lepine aquired a licence and legally bought a firearm. He could have very well registered this firearm.
A firearm registery will not stop someone from committing a henious act such as this. What needs to happen is a more indepth look into someone applying for the firearm licence itself- the act of being allowed to buy firearms in the first place. This way people with a criminal history, history of violence and abuse or any other red flags will be stopped before legally buying firearms and not just sending the information away to tell the government that they did indeed buy it.
We need to make the act of buying a firearm come under better review and remove licences and firearms from criminals with violent histories.
Sadly I do not think there is anything we can really do to stop someone with no red flags from purchasing a weapon and then using it.
Thanks for your input, Serviam6. You're quite right, a registry is far from being enough. But if you think that's why the federal government and all provinces except Québec kissed it goodbye - because they are looking for more effective gun control - I've got news for you.
The use, possession, and storage of all firearms in appropriately defined municipal areas should be banned. That will be a good start. No? And, of course, the registry should be kept as well.
In any event, we Quebecers are more or less unanimous on the need to keep guns under very strict control. We will continue in that direction. Whether others follow is naturally their business.
Thank you Unionist. I actually never had a problem with registering my firearms. I was happy to do so. My only two points of contention with it is the security risk it poses to me and my family should a criminal hack into the polices computers and the fact that over the dozen plus firearms I registered not a single registry card of mine was without some sort of mistake. Some fairly small, others gaping- including wrong make/model numbers and wrong serial numbers. At one point I was told it would cost me $10 for each new (hopefulyl correct?) cards..
Why do you think they kissed it goodbye? I honestly never stopped to consider it.
I disagree here.
Because... ?
How come you didn't respond to any of my other questionsor comments?
On this of all days, I really have no stomach for picking over this issue.
Good on Quebec for building a registry of their own.
Your only question:
1. The gun lobby - extremely powerful and wealthy.
2. The politics of division - playing to the Harperite base by telling them that urbanites and Frenchies want to disarm them.
3. In the case of the provinces - fear, cowardice, and see #1 and #2.
If there was something else you wanted me to respond to, let me know.
Now, if you would kindly explain why you think citizens need to have guns in cities, I'd appreciate pursuing that discussion.
Appreciate that thank you.
To answer your question why I think citizens should have guns in cities it's basically for the same reason citizens have guns outside the city.
Citizens in cities, like those not in cities, use firearms for;
Hunting game which provides their family food or a source of income if they sell the food.
For the enjoyment of target practice.
Competition shooting.
Collecting.
A hobby (buying firearms, modifying them and possibly reselling at a higher cost)
The only additional reason I can phatom for citizens to have firearms outside of cities is protection from wild animals.
Why do you think citizens in cities shouldn't have firearms?
Because they are dangerous and there is no hunting allowed in any city or exurban area. That leaves no reason to have a gun of any kind in an urban area. You want to target shoot then pay for a locker at a shooting range and leave your deadly toys there.
I see the point on the urban rule, but I don't see it as a priority, or even workable and on the whole I don't agree.
Never mind that there are a whole range of storage and registry regulations what would probably be of higher priority, I can hardly think of a tastier target for thieves or abuse than a huge (and probably private) armoury sitting out in the middle of nowhere.
And Serviam6, not just protection from wild animals, but controlling pests and injured and sick animals.
Well, I see it as a priority, and workable, and I agree.
I see your point. We shouldn't store weapons at police stations or military bases either, for the same reason. Or money at the mint or banknote companies. There must be a way to decentralize all that.
Yeah, I didn't get that wild animal thing. Lots of domesticated animals can be dangerous as well. And calling the authorities to help with pest control is just a waste of public funds. I think firearm ownership should be mandatory for all households within a certain radius (say, 100 km) of animals.