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Doug, I'd rather see a solidarity march in support of Chinese workers rights to collective bargaining, benefits, a living wage, proper housing, universal public health care, and the right to see their families more than one weekend a year . Perhaps we might be able to compete as workers if we didn't have to compete with enslaved labour; enslaved labour which serves OUR 1 Percent.
The more time goes by, the clearer the purpose of Nixon's visit becomes.
But Tibet's a disgrace, too, so I have no problem with protesting that imperialism.
Yes, well put Unionist. "Real" movements are built by assisting capital in the everyday business of hiding the human effect from the view of more decent folk. Some people are just plain embarrassments to any enterprise....and if we don't do something about it, the cops will lay a thumping on everyone's ass...as if tidying things up and sweeping people away represents a protective barrier between protest and police brutality. At any rate the domino effect has already begun with Oakland and Vancouver, along with other places. Instead of play by play....we'll likely be gearing up for post mortems on the entire affair soon enough.
Slumberjack is just throwing tomatoes from the sidelines. Great work you're doing dude.
I read your pre-edited comment WZ. In New Orleans, when people were hungry or needed medical attention, kitchens and medical centres were set up by the people. They didn't hide the problems away to keep up 'appearances.' They attended to them from where they stood with whatever resources there were at hand.
That's what I'm seeing in Vancouver.
Are your comments about the situation in Toronto informed by having visited the occupation?
Is that the same as saying that one needn't comment on military affairs unless one is a soldier? I'm not surprised or disappointed by your statement...having seen it employed so often in other contexts.
I'm asking if your opinion is informed. So, is your opinion informed or not?
How much capitulation is required before one becomes informed? The recent statement from Occupy Vancouver in response to the ultimatum to clear the zone is promising. The same should be said in response to any critique from government at this point.
When you talk about what is going on at Occupy Toronto, is this based on having seen the occupation with your own eyes? If not, I would say that opinion is not informed. So have you been down to the site or not?
If you've never been to Afghanistan...any opinion you might have on the matter would be ill-informed. The same applies to any war zone.
Thanks for admitting you're talking out of your ass. You have no idea what's going on at the occupation.
I just don't think your infantile challenge is worth an affirmation one way or another. It just seems to me that there's very little consistency between what you said above in the Occupy Vancouver thread, and your attacks on my response to Unionist for suggesting the 'riff raff' be swept away and kept out of sight. It appears that your intent then is to counter what you've described as talking out of ones ass with talking out of both corners of the mouth, which if you ask me, is hardly any way to stake out a solid position.
I'm saying you're disparaging the movement by claiming that organizers are sweeping people away, and pointing out that actually, you have no idea what the organizers are doing.
I certainly have no idea of what your position is on the self policing of Occupy sites to force out any sign of pretext the authorities may wish to use.
Your imagination is running away with you. Try quoting me instead of raving and concocting. My point was simple: Stop slandering the Occupy Toronto protesters based on misinterpreting that asinine article posted by Maysie. Try supporting, unconditionally, for a change.
I'm part of the "riff raff". My people have been swept away and kept out of sight more than once in history. I suggest you be more diligent when you're researching whom to attack.
I have participated only online (on livestream) at 2 general assemblies in occupy Toronto.
I don't think most people there want to exclude anyone else, but some have expressed that they are unable to adequately attend to the needs of the mentally challenged or drug addicts or alcoholic.
And some others stated that "those people" were there first and should not be kicked out because they cant subscribe to the rules set up by occupy Toronto.
Most people in occupy Toronto are doing their best to live in an open and volatile environment , I am not there, I don't live there, who am I to judge how they should live?
But what do I do notice is that there are tension and people seem like they are spending time talking about process or the day to day issue about living in the park , as opposed to the purpose of the ows.
That in turns make me question what is the significance of the rest of us who don't live in st james park to participate in their mostly internal discussion about their "camping" experience.
I admire and respect the shit they put up with camping in a park, its very brave and they are good people getting bad presses, i just wonder if any of this occupation will lead to anything... i have to admit watching them out there is kind of reminding me of the tv show "lost" and "survivor"...
In terms of the idea that we are all illegally living on native land, Occupy Toronto is doing their best to reach out to the aboriginal people, and many native people are there expressing their support for the occupy movement, so we should be happy about what is going on.
I don't know what they're doing in Toronto. I haven't been in contact with any of the Toronto occupiers. There's a lot of complexity in keeping an occupation and I'm sure Toronto has been finding some similar challenges as Vancouver.
I know that in Vancouver there are a lot of voices to bring together, and that there have been challenges, and there has been a lot of bonding and agreement. But anything that goes through the media can be cherry picked. A ten minute interview turns into a ten second sound byte and you're not getting anything close to the real story. There are lots of very intelligent people down here with very diverse ideas about what kinds of solutions can be tried. Don't assume that one clip is representative of the movement. I know that here in Vancouver I haven't felt represented by some of the clips that have gotten pushed. I would assume the same thing is happening in Toronto.
In the OV Media Committee one protocol is, "Unless you saw it with your own eyes, or a Media Committee member saw it with their own eyes and told you, don't report on it until we can investigate it further." I have seen that it is a good check on my own behaviour. Please keep this in mind when you evaluate how much you might think you know about what's going on.
In the next few days it will become very clear as to how Occupy Vancouver will address the issues of public safety, health, homelessness, drug addiction, inclusion etc., and I encourage people to keep paying attention, and please put in a good word for us if you find an opportunity to do so. We are currently in mourning and dealing with a looming threat of an injunction.
Slumberjack, it feels to me like these capitulating capitulators who have been camping out for three weeks now, feeding people, making decisions together, etc., are just not radical enough to get any admiration from you. I am seeing how much people are giving of themselves onsite. People are exhausted and committed to the cause and to the process. This is a global movement and we are not going anywhere. You come across to me as incapacitated by your cynicism. Is there nothing positive you have to say about the occupation?
Slumberjack:
Unlike Afghanistan, its not like you have to take a few weeks off work, save a few grand for plane fare, learn arabic and several regional tribal dialects, bribe various corrupt border officials, then hike fifty miles in on foot to see what the real story is at Occupy Toronto.
Nice comparison.
I mean, really????
You just have to drop a token in the TTC.
Of course that takes getting off your incredibly obnoxious, ignorant, condescending ass.
Oh you poor dear, oh ye, the subject of such arduous struggle.
Perhaps we should hold a benefit and rally to hoist you out of your settee and lethargy.
Long thread! Continue here.