Occupy Winnipeg

41 posts / 0 new
Last post
milo204
Occupy Winnipeg

Thought i'd start a thread where we can post info and updates on the Occupy Winnipeg events.

Here's the link to the facebook:

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Winnipeg/157229661035358?sk=info

Issues Pages: 
Regions: 
Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Do you know of any Occupy Quebec City events?

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture
milo204

thanks epaulo13!!

the first meeting are on wednesday and with winnipeg's proud history of progressive movements i'm sure it will be a success!

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

milo204 wrote:

thanks epaulo13!!

the first meeting are on wednesday and with winnipeg's proud history of progressive movements i'm sure it will be a success!

..should start on my sign. i don't know what i'm gonna be doing. maybe a hat thing.

2dawall

On the Facebook page, some person named Garreth Munch/Bunch ? mentioned the idea of dressing up as if for an interview to counter the stereotype.  Occupy Winnipeg just says 'no we will be negated no matter.' Not much of an answer.

At the Ledge? Why there?

milo204

i think it's a march from there (the legislature grounds) to city hall.

angrymonkey

2dawall wrote:

Occupy Winnipeg just says 'no we will be negated no matter.' Not much of an answer.

Well here's Chris Hedges answer on that question

http://ukiahcommunityblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/chris-hedges-sums-up-...

 

Peter Scheer: There was a post that was sort of going viral around the Internet, a commentary, a guy writing in sympathy with the 99 percent protesters, but also urging them to-sort of a humorous commentary but semi-serious-urging them to put on a polo shirt and khakis. And made the argument that they shouldn't come off as more, I don't know, radical; that they should think about how they're represented in the media. Do you find that compelling at all?

Chris Hedges: No. I don't think the media is going to give them much slack ...

Peter Scheer: I mean, there were these photos, for instance, of women, topless women ...

Chris Hedges: I mean, look, the whole reaction of the media has been, in essence, to make fun of them. I mean, Ralph Nader wears a suit and a white shirt and a tie everywhere he goes, and they make fun of him.

Peter Scheer: Yeah.

Chris Hedges: I mean, you're about to have Dennis Kucinich on; Dennis always looks pretty sharp, and I've watched the media make fun of him. No. You know, they will find-because there's no cost. They can't do this to the tea party. Because the Koch brothers and all their backers will come down on them like a ton of bricks. But they can be snarky and snide and dismissive of the left, because the left has no power within this country, yet. I mean, let's hope that that changes. And so they do. And if you look at the early coverage, especially in The New York Times, it's just ... I mean, it's disgusting. And you know, why should everybody look like they, you know, shop at The Gap or J. Crew, or-is that really such a great look? [laughter] I think the people in the park look great.

 

2dawall

Wow; its a march? It is not even an occupation? And on a Saturday? How overdone, how cliche, how predictable, how worthless, how futile. Why not just hold it in someone's basement if its on a Saturday. Nobody is at the Leg/Ledge on a Saturday nor is anyone at City Hall on a Saturday. Because of how Winnipeg City Hall is built, hardly anybody will notice you. Downtown Winnipeg on a Saturday is de-populated.

Saturday. That day and Friday are days that any PR firm will tell you are the best days to release damaging information so as to minimize its impact. That has even been mentioned in very brief passing on political shows such as Power and Politics and CTV's version of the same.

Saturday our time was often when Israeli helicopters would shoot Red Crescent ambulances in Lebanon during the 80's and early 90's; any coverage would die out as nothing resonates or very little resonates from that day. That is why you always see the worst programming on Saturdays on TV.

milo204 wrote:

i think it's a march from there (the legislature grounds) to city hall.

2dawall

I am not disputing that the US media goes after Nader and Kucinich but if either did the dippy neo-hippie routine it would just make it easier. Fox and Friends is having such an easier time because of all the people doing the drum circle theme; I say make it as difficult for your enemy as much as possible but I know that puts me in the smallest minority of the subset, sub-group that is the Canadian Left. I say you push as hard as possible, I say that we should be all that we can be, that we be hard and smart instead of soft and stupid. How can you inspire people or reach people if you literally perpetuate the stereotype your enemy has helped construct for you? Why not contradict the stereotype? Why not unsettle, confuse police and security?

What if the Occupy Winnipeg group was to occupy Winnipeg Square, more specifically the circle that connects the Richardson Building to the Global/Crescentwin building? That would be confronting business more like the Wall St occupiers. And if they dressed in business casual attire (ie khakis and button down shirts, etc) all the more confusing for security? Or if they started it early Monday morning to really disrupt things? No, that will not do. Too much of an effort, too much out of the norm, too unconventional to the conventions of those who wish to pretend that they are unconventional. Let us stay with our predicatable, zero-impact activism that satisfies our own egos, our own inner circles, our own sense of 'cool.' More anarko-koolism, so much like the A-Zone, that cesspool of social climbers, hipsters, and social parasites.

Look at the far more sympathetic RT coverage; they are struggling to find better images of what is taking place at Wall St but nobody can put together a decent sign. Wow, pizza boxes - what a pathetic effort. How about promoting alt news websites such as Democray Now, TheNation.com, Z Net, something for Pete's sake. No that would not do; that would be too much of an effort, we are so, so, so kool (tool too kewl for skewl).

 

... but I am not bitter or anything ...

angrymonkey wrote:

2dawall wrote:

Occupy Winnipeg just says 'no we will be negated no matter.' Not much of an answer.

Well here's Chris Hedges answer on that question

http://ukiahcommunityblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/chris-hedges-sums-up-...

 

Peter Scheer: There was a post that was sort of going viral around the Internet, a commentary, a guy writing in sympathy with the 99 percent protesters, but also urging them to-sort of a humorous commentary but semi-serious-urging them to put on a polo shirt and khakis. And made the argument that they shouldn't come off as more, I don't know, radical; that they should think about how they're represented in the media. Do you find that compelling at all?

Chris Hedges: No. I don't think the media is going to give them much slack ...

Peter Scheer: I mean, there were these photos, for instance, of women, topless women ...

Chris Hedges: I mean, look, the whole reaction of the media has been, in essence, to make fun of them. I mean, Ralph Nader wears a suit and a white shirt and a tie everywhere he goes, and they make fun of him.

Peter Scheer: Yeah.

Chris Hedges: I mean, you're about to have Dennis Kucinich on; Dennis always looks pretty sharp, and I've watched the media make fun of him. No. You know, they will find-because there's no cost. They can't do this to the tea party. Because the Koch brothers and all their backers will come down on them like a ton of bricks. But they can be snarky and snide and dismissive of the left, because the left has no power within this country, yet. I mean, let's hope that that changes. And so they do. And if you look at the early coverage, especially in The New York Times, it's just ... I mean, it's disgusting. And you know, why should everybody look like they, you know, shop at The Gap or J. Crew, or-is that really such a great look? [laughter] I think the people in the park look great.

 

2dawall

Why has nobody else noted all the Alex Jones nonsense that is being posted here on this Occupy Winnipeg Facebook page?

It just keeps getting worse.

milo204 wrote:

Thought i'd start a thread where we can post info and updates on the Occupy Winnipeg events.

Here's the link to the facebook:

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Winnipeg/157229661035358?sk=info

angrymonkey

2dawall wrote:

Wow; its a march? It is not even an occupation? And on a Saturday? 

Well the poster says STARTING the occupation oct 15, bring your tent and join us. And somewhere else on the site I believe mentioned it going to mid december I think.

I agree with wearing the costume if it obviously furthers your own ends like say, the yes men. But to do it in the hope that others look at the protestors more favorably?  Their age and their ideas single them out for attack way more than their clothes, that's just one easy swipe. They would find other reasons. Look at OLeary's attitude towards Hedges. 

Sure they could try to occupy winnipeg square but I imagine that would last all of one day. I agree being at the ledge might not have a big impact since groups do camp out there and it's in an area that can be easily ignored. But I find it hard to crap on people doing more than I am.

 

milo204

I think the ledge is a great spot, it's one of the busiest intersections in the city, it's also very close to memorial park if more space is needed.  Unfortunately in winnipeg, there isn't really a "financial street" to speak of, But broadway sort of fills that role in the city.  

It's also pretty close to all the relative centres of power in the city that are a good march away, assuming that there will be marches as long as the occupation continues, and hopefully into the winter.

i just wish this would have started earlier, as it's going to get really cold soon.

milo204

First GA was held yeaterday and the formation of some working groups has started!

2dawall

The Leg/Ledge is some 50 metres from Osborne or Broadway; it creates distant visibility. And again, nobody is around that area on a Sunday. If this is intended to be anything like Occupy Wall St than it should address the real base of power, capital. That would be near the Richardson building, the Global/Crescentwin building, Trizec etc. And its inside, not outside in WINTERPEG.

 

milo204 wrote:

I think the ledge is a great spot, it's one of the busiest intersections in the city, it's also very close to memorial park if more space is needed.  Unfortunately in winnipeg, there isn't really a "financial street" to speak of, But broadway sort of fills that role in the city.  

It's also pretty close to all the relative centres of power in the city that are a good march away, assuming that there will be marches as long as the occupation continues, and hopefully into the winter.

i just wish this would have started earlier, as it's going to get really cold soon.

2dawall

Well if they cannot make it last one day where it might actually matter then why bother?

Why go to the pretense that this is anything like Occupy Wall St (to whom I should give belated credit -  I did not think they would last that first weekend)? Either really do it or do not bother. Another pitiful effort that cannot even be described as a half-effort but more like a 5% effort.

angrymonkey wrote:

2dawall wrote:

Wow; its a march? It is not even an occupation? And on a Saturday? 

Well the poster says STARTING the occupation oct 15, bring your tent and join us. And somewhere else on the site I believe mentioned it going to mid december I think.

I agree with wearing the costume if it obviously furthers your own ends like say, the yes men. But to do it in the hope that others look at the protestors more favorably?  Their age and their ideas single them out for attack way more than their clothes, that's just one easy swipe. They would find other reasons. Look at OLeary's attitude towards Hedges. 

Sure they could try to occupy winnipeg square but I imagine that would last all of one day. I agree being at the ledge might not have a big impact since groups do camp out there and it's in an area that can be easily ignored. But I find it hard to crap on people doing more than I am.

 

cdnprogressive cdnprogressive's picture

Jeez! If your information doesn't come from within the confins of the almighty Facebook, it sure is difficult finding a central place where people are organizing OWS events. Does anyone know where a good place to go in order to get involved would be? I was hoping here, but from the lack of activity around these parts I'd guess no.

I'll probably be at work until 3pm on Saturday, then my wife and I are planning on heading down to see how things are developing. Hopefully along: I've already made the decision to quit my job in February in order to participate full time. Hopefully this isn't just a shallow imitation of what's going on in New York (and now San Francisco, Atlanta, Seattle, etc) but rather the real deal. Revolutions by myself have been, shall we say, rather long in their gaze, but short in their grasp.

Don't start the fireworks without me.

milo204

that area around the richardson building is even more dead on a sunday anyways.  During the week, this is probably one of the busiest intersections in the city.  Realistically, we could argue location all day, the important thing is it's happening here and you can get involved if you want.

cdnprogressive, i'd say follow on facebook to find out the time the events like the GA are going on and head down.  You could always post your desire to talk to people on the page and see what happens, or just go down on saturday, wade in and meet with some of the people there or the working groups.  Once things get going i'm sure it will be easier to stay in contact and get info updates.

2dawall

Well that misses my point; if the intent is to actually stage an occupation that lasts more than a few days than it should be in Winnipeg Square where it would have impact Monday to Friday. Where they are now does not even disrupt the evening soccer games as it is now in the last half of October. Nobody walks by there now during this time of year. To anyone over ten metres away, it just looks like an encampment.

milo204 wrote:

that area around the richardson building is even more dead on a sunday anyways.  During the week, this is probably one of the busiest intersections in the city.  Realistically, we could argue location all day, the important thing is it's happening here and you can get involved if you want.

cdnprogressive, i'd say follow on facebook to find out the time the events like the GA are going on and head down.  You could always post your desire to talk to people on the page and see what happens, or just go down on saturday, wade in and meet with some of the people there or the working groups.  Once things get going i'm sure it will be easier to stay in contact and get info updates.

wage zombie

2dawall wrote:

Wow; its a march? It is not even an occupation? And on a Saturday? How overdone, how cliche, how predictable, how worthless, how futile. Why not just hold it in someone's basement if its on a Saturday. Nobody is at the Leg/Ledge on a Saturday nor is anyone at City Hall on a Saturday. Because of how Winnipeg City Hall is built, hardly anybody will notice you. Downtown Winnipeg on a Saturday is de-populated.

2dawall, from what I've seen most of your posts are complaining about how inadequate Winnipeg organizers are.  You never seem to talk about how you're taking any initiative yourself.  If you feel you could do it better why don't you?  If you were willing to offer up your basement for a meeting then at least your comment would be constructive.  Most of what I've seen from you is saying that people can't organize effectively enough for you to be interested in getting involved.

Quote:

What if the Occupy Winnipeg group was to occupy Winnipeg Square, more specifically the circle that connects the Richardson Building to the Global/Crescentwin building? That would be confronting business more like the Wall St occupiers. And if they dressed in business casual attire (ie khakis and button down shirts, etc) all the more confusing for security? Or if they started it early Monday morning to really disrupt things? No, that will not do. Too much of an effort, too much out of the norm, too unconventional to the conventions of those who wish to pretend that they are unconventional. Let us stay with our predicatable, zero-impact activism that satisfies our own egos, our own inner circles, our own sense of 'cool.' More anarko-koolism, so much like the A-Zone, that cesspool of social climbers, hipsters, and social parasites.

So what do you want people to do?  Sleep outside for weeks on end or spend hours at home grooming themselves before going out so that they look and smell nice?  Make up your mind.

I suspect if you donated some khakis and polo shirts to the occupation then people would wear them.

2dawall

I am not in position to do either. How does that change anything? What is the alternative to my criticisms? Not say anything at all. For too long too many of us (including myself) would make the most muted of criticisms now and then but what has that wrought? Look at how utterly pathetic and weak the Left has become. When will it develop a knowledge base, a learning curve, a way forward? This constant faint replication of some effort earlier has led us to where we are now: nowhere. Why do groups have no feedback loop, why is everything a weaker and weaker effort?

Can you show me where groups on their own have made a specific improvement? An actual example please. All I see is self-marginalization, a smaller, more concentric circle of nothing. Please prove me wrong.

 

wage zombie wrote:

2dawall wrote:

Wow; its a march? It is not even an occupation? And on a Saturday? How overdone, how cliche, how predictable, how worthless, how futile. Why not just hold it in someone's basement if its on a Saturday. Nobody is at the Leg/Ledge on a Saturday nor is anyone at City Hall on a Saturday. Because of how Winnipeg City Hall is built, hardly anybody will notice you. Downtown Winnipeg on a Saturday is de-populated.

2dawall, from what I've seen most of your posts are complaining about how inadequate Winnipeg organizers are.  You never seem to talk about how you're taking any initiative yourself.  If you feel you could do it better why don't you?  If you were willing to offer up your basement for a meeting then at least your comment would be constructive.  Most of what I've seen from you is saying that people can't organize effectively enough for you to be interested in getting involved.

Quote:

What if the Occupy Winnipeg group was to occupy Winnipeg Square, more specifically the circle that connects the Richardson Building to the Global/Crescentwin building? That would be confronting business more like the Wall St occupiers. And if they dressed in business casual attire (ie khakis and button down shirts, etc) all the more confusing for security? Or if they started it early Monday morning to really disrupt things? No, that will not do. Too much of an effort, too much out of the norm, too unconventional to the conventions of those who wish to pretend that they are unconventional. Let us stay with our predicatable, zero-impact activism that satisfies our own egos, our own inner circles, our own sense of 'cool.' More anarko-koolism, so much like the A-Zone, that cesspool of social climbers, hipsters, and social parasites.

So what do you want people to do?  Sleep outside for weeks on end or spend hours at home grooming themselves before going out so that they look and smell nice?  Make up your mind.

I suspect if you donated some khakis and polo shirts to the occupation then people would wear them.

genstrike

Dude, actions speak louder than words.  If you're so much better than everyone else combined, just start the fucking revolution already.

Besides, some sections of the left are growing.  The Palestinian solidarity movement is coming off of two successful years of IAW (even breaking into the U of W), Youth Activist Retreat has been going on for over a decade, and femrev and the broader feminist movement seem to be doing okay.  Oh wait, none of that counts because the hard working folks who  bust their ass to do these things aren't perfect and don't have infinite resources, right?

Seriously.  As a dedicated activist in Winnipeg, I find 2dawall's constant shitting on everyone and refusal to do anything to be rather frustrating.  Nothing anyone in Winnipeg does is good enough for him, and if it's not perfect, it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him, of course) is useless and stupid.  If he saw my union newsletter, he'd say it's the worst piece of shit ever and call me a useless idiot for using Tahoma instead of Calibri for the headlines and say it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him) is an complete and utter nincompoop.

Aristotleded24

genstrike wrote:
As a dedicated activist in Winnipeg, I find 2dawall's constant shitting on everyone and refusal to do anything to be rather frustrating.  Nothing anyone in Winnipeg does is good enough for him, and if it's not perfect, it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him, of course) is useless and stupid.  If he saw my union newsletter, he'd say it's the worst piece of shit ever and call me a useless idiot for using Tahoma instead of Calibri for the headlines and say it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him) is an complete and utter nincompoop.

What also makes Winnipeg a challenge especially is that the urban culture in Winnipeg is more isolating than what you have in other major cities. I don't agree with 2dawall's characterization of downtown being de-populated on a Saturday, much of the city feels like that all the time. Obviously for activism to work, people and activists need to run into each other, which is very difficult in Winnipeg. Overcoming these obstacles is going to be a huge challenge for anyone who tries, and it requires a great deal of patience.

2dawall

genstrike, you can imply that I am a snob or haughty or unfairly critical or pretty much anything you want, but you do not answer any of the questions below.

The reason why I do not bother to go to events or meetings, beyond reasons of finance and health, are that they are abysmal. You cannot request evidence or provide evidence. There is no real discussion but the repetition of liberal mantras with a 'radical' pretense. You are not allowed to question the viability of a certain practise or assumption or anything. Neo-primitivism, neo-paganism have replaced rational thought. People often show up to meetings either drunk or high or coming down from one or the other; far too much has been tolerated in the name of 'tolerance'; some of us have thrown up our hands and voted with our feet.

2dawall wrote:

I am not in position to do either. How does that change anything? What is the alternative to my criticisms? Not say anything at all. For too long too many of us (including myself) would make the most muted of criticisms now and then but what has that wrought? Look at how utterly pathetic and weak the Left has become. When will it develop a knowledge base, a learning curve, a way forward? This constant faint replication of some effort earlier has led us to where we are now: nowhere. Why do groups have no feedback loop, why is everything a weaker and weaker effort?

Can you show me where groups on their own have made a specific improvement? An actual example please. All I see is self-marginalization, a smaller, more concentric circle of nothing. Please prove me wrong.

 

wage zombie wrote:

2dawall wrote:

Wow; its a march? It is not even an occupation? And on a Saturday? How overdone, how cliche, how predictable, how worthless, how futile. Why not just hold it in someone's basement if its on a Saturday. Nobody is at the Leg/Ledge on a Saturday nor is anyone at City Hall on a Saturday. Because of how Winnipeg City Hall is built, hardly anybody will notice you. Downtown Winnipeg on a Saturday is de-populated.

2dawall, from what I've seen most of your posts are complaining about how inadequate Winnipeg organizers are.  You never seem to talk about how you're taking any initiative yourself.  If you feel you could do it better why don't you?  If you were willing to offer up your basement for a meeting then at least your comment would be constructive.  Most of what I've seen from you is saying that people can't organize effectively enough for you to be interested in getting involved.

Quote:

What if the Occupy Winnipeg group was to occupy Winnipeg Square, more specifically the circle that connects the Richardson Building to the Global/Crescentwin building? That would be confronting business more like the Wall St occupiers. And if they dressed in business casual attire (ie khakis and button down shirts, etc) all the more confusing for security? Or if they started it early Monday morning to really disrupt things? No, that will not do. Too much of an effort, too much out of the norm, too unconventional to the conventions of those who wish to pretend that they are unconventional. Let us stay with our predicatable, zero-impact activism that satisfies our own egos, our own inner circles, our own sense of 'cool.' More anarko-koolism, so much like the A-Zone, that cesspool of social climbers, hipsters, and social parasites.

So what do you want people to do?  Sleep outside for weeks on end or spend hours at home grooming themselves before going out so that they look and smell nice?  Make up your mind.

I suspect if you donated some khakis and polo shirts to the occupation then people would wear them.

2dawall

genstrike wrote:

... Youth Activist Retreat has been going on for over a decade, ...

Seriously.  As a dedicated activist in Winnipeg, I find 2dawall's constant shitting on everyone and refusal to do anything to be rather frustrating.  Nothing anyone in Winnipeg does is good enough for him, and if it's not perfect, it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him, of course) is useless and stupid.  If he saw my union newsletter, he'd say it's the worst piece of shit ever and call me a useless idiot for using Tahoma instead of Calibri for the headlines and say it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him) is an complete and utter nincompoop.

Wow. You are still going on about one comment about print size on a leaflet for the fourth or fifth time some six months later? Belaboured point?

Yes YAR has been going on for a decade and a half and what of it? There is no evidence of its impact and there is no way to measure because beyond a list of dates and a really threadbare outline of what it is about, there is nothing about it one can actually measure. I know that I do not see activivism improving. Femrev? Besides making photocopies of pictures of female breasts and taping them to windows of the MTS building, what connection to the public do they have.

Making criticisms does not imply a request for perfection; instead of attacking me/'attacking the man' why not specifically point out why I am wrong? Does it actually makes sense to stage an event at the Leg/Ledge on a Saturday afternoon? Are there actually a lot of ordinary people to reach there?

Should we do what the Winnipeg Citizens Coalition does and just say "well we tried our best" to whatever effort is made instead of seriously reviewing to see what can be done better in the future?

Contrary to what the Winnipeg Sun says about every event year in year out being made of the same people, it is actually quite the opposite - it is often only 10% who are the same people and that is the real indictment because it speaks to how many people like myself who stop coming out.

2dawall

genstrike has continued to avoid answering these questions as has wagezombie. Typical leftist complacency.

2dawall wrote:

genstrike wrote:

... Youth Activist Retreat has been going on for over a decade, ...

Seriously.  As a dedicated activist in Winnipeg, I find 2dawall's constant shitting on everyone and refusal to do anything to be rather frustrating.  Nothing anyone in Winnipeg does is good enough for him, and if it's not perfect, it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him, of course) is useless and stupid.  If he saw my union newsletter, he'd say it's the worst piece of shit ever and call me a useless idiot for using Tahoma instead of Calibri for the headlines and say it's proof that everyone on the Winnipeg left (except for him) is an complete and utter nincompoop.

Wow. You are still going on about one comment about print size on a leaflet for the fourth or fifth time some six months later? Belaboured point?

Yes YAR has been going on for a decade and a half and what of it? There is no evidence of its impact and there is no way to measure because beyond a list of dates and a really threadbare outline of what it is about, there is nothing about it one can actually measure. I know that I do not see activivism improving. Femrev? Besides making photocopies of pictures of female breasts and taping them to windows of the MTS building, what connection to the public do they have.

Making criticisms does not imply a request for perfection; instead of attacking me/'attacking the man' why not specifically point out why I am wrong? Does it actually makes sense to stage an event at the Leg/Ledge on a Saturday afternoon? Are there actually a lot of ordinary people to reach there?

Should we do what the Winnipeg Citizens Coalition does and just say "well we tried our best" to whatever effort is made instead of seriously reviewing to see what can be done better in the future?

Contrary to what the Winnipeg Sun says about every event year in year out being made of the same people, it is actually quite the opposite - it is often only 10% who are the same people and that is the real indictment because it speaks to how many people like myself who stop coming out.

genstrike

You're accusing me of "typical leftist complacency"?

Actually, you're right.  I should start following your example.  I would like to apologize for focusing on silly things like my two jobs, my studies, my union, and the real-life organizing projects that I am involved with and neglecting for a day what is really important in life and in revolutionary work: arguing with cranks on babble.

jas

I sort of agree with you on this one, 2da, even though I'm in no position to criticize.

But I kind of wondered what the protest was hoping to communicate, especially as they joined it with SlutWalk. I know some camped out near the Leg grounds on Saturday night. I don't know if they're still there. But, to me, occupy means OCCUPY. Get some furniture out there. Make it semi-permanent. If it's going to be radical, make it radical.

I don't know, I think the movement is inspiring, but it doesn't seem desperate enough, and therefore genuine enough yet. At least not in middle class, suburbanite Winnipeg. Maybe another few years when things get really crunchy.... I just hope the impetus will still be there. It's a good start, though.

Aristotleded24

jas wrote:
I don't know, I think the movement is inspiring, but it doesn't seem desperate enough, and therefore genuine enough yet. At least not in middle class, suburbanite Winnipeg.

Yup, that's the crux of the problem, along with the fact that Winnipeg itself has been designed in such a way as to discourage meaningful communities from forming. And while poverty remains a persistent problem in Winnipeg and the middle class is collapsing around the place, Winnipeg has been, by and large, spared from the economic fall-out that has happened in other places. In other words, while the ranks of the poor elsewhere are joined by former members of the middle class, in Winnipeg the poor are those who have always been poor while the middle class have stayed middle class. It's actually one of the few beacons of political stability in the world, as every election here since 2010 has seen the incumbent administrations returned at a time when incumbency is generally a political disadvantage.

milo204

yes, jas they're still there, freezing their butts off.

2dawall, we could argue about whether or not it is the best place to hold an occupation, but it is an occupation that has gone on for days now and is continuing.  Good enough for me.  The original OWS people were tossed from their first location and it worked out just fine.  I just dont see the difference between this or that location as being such a big deal that i would or wouldn't support the protest based on that.

 

 

2dawall

You have repeatedly said that I call everyone an idiot or something but actually I am referring to a segment of the Left in Winnipeg that has too much influence. I never said that about you. When you repeatedly ask that you answer the questions above, you refuse to; that is typical Leftist complacency.

What exactly makes me a 'crank' beyond a rage about our current predictament? Can you cite something specific? Again, I was the one asking the Occupy Winning NOT promote Alex/Axis Jones but you are turning this  thread into your anger about something I said in passing on another thread some six months ago or so.

Can we please stick to what I have been saying about Occupy Winnipeg please and what things specifically I said that were wrong.

I never denied that you had too much on your plate; maybe just focus on one area of activism instead of 3 or 4, maybe stop being in a band or whatever.

genstrike wrote:

You're accusing me of "typical leftist complacency"?

Actually, you're right.  I should start following your example.  I would like to apologize for focusing on silly things like my two jobs, my studies, my union, and the real-life organizing projects that I am involved with and neglecting for a day what is really important in life and in revolutionary work: arguing with cranks on babble.

milo204

Thank you all for aptly demonstrating one of the major problems in progressive circles.  We can go on forever arguing about nonsensical small details, accusing each other of not being "comitted" or working hard enough or not doing the right things.  people in power LOVE that!  It's the same dynamic at play in palestine, etc.  i.e. if hamas and fatah etc. are fighting each other, they're not working together to fight US/israel....

 

Sarann

Students in Chili are occupying 200 schools and 12 or so universities as a protest against high tuition fees and the privatization of educational institutions, and just generally against the free market ideology. Police remove them and they move back in. They have set themselves up a support network. Guess the Chilean police wouldn't dare haul them to the arena and torture them, or drop them from airplanes. It's not just the US and Canada or Greece. It's an idea whose time has come.

2dawall

Is asking that the Left become smarter and stronger a nonsensical detail? Is asking that we have an open discussion about method wrong?

milo204 wrote:

Thank you all for aptly demonstrating one of the major problems in progressive circles.  We can go on forever arguing about nonsensical small details, accusing each other of not being "comitted" or working hard enough or not doing the right things.  people in power LOVE that!  It's the same dynamic at play in palestine, etc.  i.e. if hamas and fatah etc. are fighting each other, they're not working together to fight US/israel....

 

2dawall

Btw, milo204, Fatah was pretty much being paid by the US/Israel to wage war against Hamas. And my asking for evidence or my requesting direct answers to direct questions on one post in one thead on babble/rabble really, really does not mimic or approach what is going on over there. I fully acknowledge that genstrike does way more work than most but it cannot just be him and Brian LaTour; that is ridiculous. I am not calling genstrike a 'jerk' or saying he is crapping on anybody. I am saying he is avoiding my questions.

What is the point of having a section of babble for activism if we cannot discuss it beyond clapping our hands for approval of anything and everything?

Does it make sense for only a handful of Winnipeg Leftists/progressives to come here? I may have concerns about rabble but it is vastly better than the other Left websites and its forums feature from my experience is better than that of The Dominion. We need other to come here to discuss or challenge us. I always want to learn - seriously I do. Yet that pretty much only happens if I read a copy of The Nation, or Z Magazine or if I read the articles here. I want more. We desperately need more.

Is it really OK for Occupy Winnipeg to push Axis Jones? Would we be ok with Pat Buchanan or David Duke?

Does it really make sense to go places that are removed from others?

Currently they have a banner that says 'make poverty history' that looks like it was borrowed from another campaign from liberal and social democrat social workers. At least Occupy Wall St makes it relatively clear that it is confronting corporate power. It is not clear what Occupy Winnipeg is confronting if anything at all.

milo204

i'm just saying if you go back to the top and read this thread it really seems to mimic some of the problems progressives face when trying to organize people around something...even though we all agree on the larger issue, we get lost arguing over the small details and we can't actually make progress...

To be honest, i thought some of the banners were lame as well, i can't stand alex jones and i openly disagree with people here and in the real world all the time.  But that doesn't mean we can't still work together on the larger things we do agree on and hopefully get something done.  

i just don't expect a movement that is for the first time including more people from the public with no history of activism to be on the same page i am after doing it for many years.  I think if we support it, the more people get involved and start sharing information, the less we will see posts of people like alex jones...but that will only happen if people like you and me get involved and make that happen.

 

2dawall

OK but due to my circumstances, coming here is about the limit I can do. I wonder what it would take to get those who are at Occcupy Winnipeg to come  to this site and this thread?

milo204 wrote:

i'm just saying if you go back to the top and read this thread it really seems to mimic some of the problems progressives face when trying to organize people around something...even though we all agree on the larger issue, we get lost arguing over the small details and we can't actually make progress...

To be honest, i thought some of the banners were lame as well, i can't stand alex jones and i openly disagree with people here and in the real world all the time.  But that doesn't mean we can't still work together on the larger things we do agree on and hopefully get something done.  

i just don't expect a movement that is for the first time including more people from the public with no history of activism to be on the same page i am after doing it for many years.  I think if we support it, the more people get involved and start sharing information, the less we will see posts of people like alex jones...but that will only happen if people like you and me get involved and make that happen.

 

Unionist

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/legislature-shut-to-occupi... shut to Occupiers: Officials say protesters no longer welcome to use toilets, warm up[/url]

Quote:

Kuby said up until Wednesday, protesters were regularly allowed into the building by front-desk security to use the washroom and even tour the building. The Occupiers set up their camp in Memorial Park Oct. 15.

The province says the change is standing operating procedure.

"In consideration of the fact that the Manitoba legislature is an office building that is visited regularly by tourists, schoolchildren and other Manitobans, protesters are not allowed to use the washroom facilities," a provincial spokeswoman said. "Members of this group have acknowledged this and have put their own washroom facilities on-site. The province is not funding porta-potties.

"We have no plans to ask them to leave at this time. Our primary concern is safety and security and we continue to work with the group in this regard."

The Manitoba NDP government has some serious choices to make. It would appear that the siren call of the 1% is sweeter so far than the rumbling thunder of the 99%.

6079_Smith_W

That seriously sucks. There used to be a toilet in that park. Perhaps everyone there should sign up to get into the provincial archives just to prove a point. 

And there are other toilets within a short walk - the Bay, The art gallery, even the U of W. Given the rigmarole of getting into the building, I wouldn't have pegged the Leg as the most convenient option, though I understand its symbolic importance. Really, considering all it takes to get a stage for a block party, someone should organize port-a-potties, or a portable bathroom through the city or the  province.

And as for the general public, I think this would be something to call your MLA or councillor about.

Like the situation in Vancouver, this is ultimately a health and safety issue - one that government is responsible for, and which should not be exploited to undermine legitimate protest.

 

Slumberjack

You know, if its real anxiety you're looking to generate out there 2dawall....how about a campaign of flash occupations of various corporate locations, complete with those quickly deployed first up and down tents...like at the Unicity Mall, or Polo Park, etc...that strategically melts away to materialize someplace else just before the inevitable ultimatum is dropped, but not before the occupiers do what occupiers are known to do best the world over.  Plus, there'd be an added incentive of course for peope to come out in droves.

2dawall

Well why tents? Why not just occupy offices like they did in the days of the anti-aparthied campaign?