Police accused of using provocateurs at summit

quote:Protesters are accusing police of using undercover agents to provoke violent confrontations at the North American leaders' summit in Montebello, Que.

Such accusations have been made before after similar demonstrations but this time the alleged "agents provocateurs" have been caught on camera.

A video, posted on YouTube, shows three young men, their faces masked by bandannas, mingling Monday with protesters in front of a line of police in riot gear. At least one of the masked men is holding a rock in his hand.

The three are confronted by protest organizer Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. Coles makes it clear the masked men are not welcome among his group of protesters, whom he describes as mainly grandparents. He urges them to leave and find their own protest location.

Coles also demands that they put down their rocks. Other protesters begin to chime in that the three are really police agents. Several try to snatch the bandanas from their faces.

Rather than leave, the three actually start edging closer to the police line, where they appear to engage in discussions. They eventually push their way past an officer, whereupon other police shove them to the ground and handcuff them.

Late Tuesday, photographs taken by another protester surfaced, showing the trio lying prone on the ground. The photos show the soles of their boots adorned by yellow triangles. A police officer kneeling beside the men has an identical yellow triangle on the sole of his boot.

The three do not appear to have been arrested or charged with any offence.

Police confirm that only four protesters were arrested during the summit – two men and two women. All have been charged with obstruction and resisting arrest.

Veteran protester Jaggi Singh, who is helping to circulate the video as widely as possible, said all four of those arrested are known to organizers and are genuine protesters.

"But we see very clearly in that video three (other) men being arrested . . . How do (police) account for these three people being taken in, being arrested? Where did they go?" Singh said.

Neither the RCMP nor the Surete du Quebec would comment on the video or even discuss generally whether they ever use the tactic of employing agents provocateurs.

"I cannot answer your question because I don't have the information," said Const. Kane Kramer, a spokesman for the RCMP at the summit.

link

Here's the video:

video of outed cops

Here's another article:

Agents provocateurs active at Montebello?

These cops aren't even that bright since one of them is wearing a hat saying "PSP" (isn't that a video game?)

Please pass it on as this story needs to get out.

[ 21 August 2007: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]

Does anyone have a link to the picture of the undercover cops' boots?

That's fantastic that they've been exposed!

Good response by brother Dave Coles, President of CEP. The labour movement is used to having to deal with provocations like this so I'm not surprised that a union brother would figure things out and expose the police agents. But it's great to have this on video. Congratulations to the participants of the anti-SPP protests for their courage and discipline in the face of such provocations. The repressive apparatus of the state appears in all its glory: bumbling, evil, and antagonistic to democracy and dissent.

Evidence like this helps people to understand the necessity of strong discipline at protests and demonstrations. It educates young people about the role of the state, radicalizes them, and toughens them for future battles. And it's nice to see evidence of the leading role that working class leaders play, by virtue of their experience and wisdom in fighting the enemy, in the struggles for peace and justice.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

I hope that those who organize activist retreat educational workshops make copies of this video. Very instructive. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

quote:quote:
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The biggest problem I have with the three masked policemen is that they ruin the integrity of the police.
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Yeah, right.
Gee, three middle aged, burly guys who look like they bought bandanas on the way to work ... couldn't possibly be cops.

I think they were anarchists on steroids. There was one man whose face was partially exposed. Let's have a Canada-wide competition to see if anyone can identify that man or the other two. Prize: a trip for three to Montebello. You'll have to pay your own way there, your food, and accomodation. I'm too broke to pay for the prize.

Someone should post a shot of buddies face so as to get to the bottom of this.

Notice how the boots of the "protesters" have exactly the same amount of tread, almost as if they were issued to them at the same time. And notice the wear on cops' boots. Exactly the same amount of wear as the "protesters'", not to mention the famous yellow triangle.

Instead of whining about some fucking facebook group in Sarnia or wherever it was, this website should concentrate its efforts on THIS case. There's something like 14000 people here. Demand answers.

By the way. I suggest you download the full JPG file the CUPE site. You can really see the tread patterns and wear marks.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: Slider ]

I don't trust anyone that masks themselves and carries rocks and concealed weapons to a protest. Cowards. The union leader has more guts than the cowards in the masks carrying rocks.

this was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration

I don't know if these masked people were provacateurs hired by the police, they are more liekey the small minority that always show up that are anarchists.

Don't bring rocks to a protest and hijack a protest and damage the integrity of a legal, peaceful protest.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]

Yes, I know it's an amazing picture. That's why I posted it [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Now the question is, what happens next? These weren't just undercover cops, which have some (debateable) purpose at these types of gatherings, but instead they were actually there to provoke citizens into violence, thus ligitimizing a forceful police response.

The police are supposed to "protect and serve", right? Where does inciting violence enter into the picture? It's the 1970s all over again with RCMP dirty tricks. Wasn't there a Royal Commission on RCMP activities back then, and wasn't the RCMP Security Service disbanded (and re-formed as CSIS) over their activities?

quote:Originally posted by Slider:

Here you go.

DU

anarchists often wear para-military gear bought at army surplus stores, I am not convinced that this photo shows a connection between the police and that man. Circumstantial evidence only.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]

I would expect that the labour movement has plenty of experience with this sort of thing. Hence brother Dave Coles' calm response. He's probably seen it before. Evidence, however, is generally hard to come by. If you understand what's going on then you're typically too busy trying to defuse the situation to collect evidence against the cops.

Is the MSM completely silent on this? How pathetic.

Well the picture only shows one pair of "provacateur" boot, not 3 pairs

it makes no sense, why would the police want to create a scenario where they use tear gas and other weapons on senior citizens / grandparents and on Dave Coles? The location of this incident, with-in a crowd of grandparents is odd.

This would be a public relations nightmare for the police and the summit organisers. I am not buying it until I see more robust evidence.

I wish all videos on you-tube were hi definition and I could zoom in on the boots. You-tube is a great tool, it might be enought to at the very least force an indepenant investigation if it turns out those 3 'protestors/ provacateurs" were not processed.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]

quote:Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Is the MSM completely silent on this? How pathetic.

Not completely. The article at the top of the thread is from the Toronto Star, which has the largest circulation of any newspaper in the country if I remember correctly.

quote:Originally posted by TemporalHominid:
...Well the picture only shows one pair of "provacateur" boot, not 3 pairs...

uh, TH, nice spin. look at the .jpg file. the photo clearly shows the two "provocateurs" face down with soles of the boots clearly showing, and one of the riot police crouching over the guy in denim, with his boot sole clearly visible. they are the same boots. same tread wear. the denim guy has made a lame attempt to "disguise" his boots with duct tape and green paint. the other fishy thing is the cammo guy's gloves. pretty nice. i wear lots of specialty gloves. cycling, sailing, work, etc. those look pretty robust and expensive. funny how the look similar to the riot cop pointing down above him.

are the police really that clued out? don't they know everyone has a camera of some sort these days?

there should be loud calls for an inquiry. and a serious public review of the hiring practices of law enforcement countrywide.

quote:Originally posted by Slider:

Fuck you are ignorant! There are TWO protesters' boots clearly visible. Cammo-pants-guy and Blue-jeans-guy. Are you blind? And you can also see the cops' boots.

You a fifth-column type?

Wow. You need to relax dude. No sense rankling your allies.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]

I realy suggest that you download the full, hi-res picture from the CUPE website. Then try to tell people that, oh maybe the nice police just happened to feel sorry for the poor protesters and decided not to arrest them. And oh, maybe the nice protesters got a really good bargain of brand new boots at Army and Navy. Bullshit.

You cab zoom in right into the tread. These aren't "similar" boots. They're IDENTICAL boots. I mean it. Totally identical, not one single difference, other that the tape and yellow crayon markings the "protesters" added to their boots.

While it does look suspicious, one thing to remember is that those are standard Vibram (tm) soles. What do you bet that there are 100000 union workers who use boots like that every day.

My workboots have the same tread pattern.

quote:Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:

Wow. You need to relax dude. No sense rankling your allies.

I don't think we need "allies" like TH. He's the sort to excuse any atrocity, read his words. He's "not convinced". About the only thing that WILL convince him is to be hit on the head by a police club!

quote:Originally posted by Slider:
I don't think we need "allies" like TH. He's the sort to excuse any atrocity, read his words.

Uh, he's not "excusing atrocities". Could you maybe dial back your confrontational and rude tone a bit, please?

Oops. I was wrong.

That tread pattern is #134AR Technical Lug by Vibram. It's listed as a military pattern.

http://www.vibram.us/products/products.asp?Product=Military#

quote:Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Heywood, what a surprise that you would cast doubt on the allegations. Why don't you enlighten the rest of us why you think these "protestors" (whom, even the anarchists present called them as police) weren't arrested? And why didn't the RCMP and the SQ respond to the question about the use of agent provocateurs? I'm sure you've got a snappy answer.

Jesus Christ. I was just making a point about the tread pattern. That's it. I swear to fucking god some people here annoy the fuck out of me.

Give Temporal a break. He's just trying to get to the bottom of it like we all are.

If this was a setup, it was an outrageous violation of the right to peacefully protest. And unfortunately not the first time.

quote: I'm sure you've got a snappy answer.
Clearly it was protestors, clever enough to know exactly the boots police would be wearing, trying to make the cops look bad. And obviously the police didn't arrest them out of concern for them missing the bus home from the scene where they intended to throw rocks.

And Stepphen Harper and George W. Bush are only holding secret talks with the corporate elites to ensure the free flow of jelly beans. Man, don't you know anything?

quote:Frustrated Mess: I am not aware of any historical precedence in Canada where police have been held responsible, criminally or otherwise, for dirty tricks. They tend to be promoted.

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of this sort of thing. It might be worth investigating. But in any case, there's a first time for everything, isn't there? If the Commissioner of the RCMP can lose his job over self-contradictory statements and testimony, why not aim higher? Proper civilian oversight and management of investigations into police wrongdoing and complaints against the police in Canada is a must.

quote:Originally posted by Slider:

Big Breath...

Those boots (protesters and cops) have #134AR Technical Lug soles.

Vibram USA

They are specifically Fire/Police soles.

And the uppers are also the same!!!

I know. I already posted that. Look up.

quote:Originally posted by Slider:

The police are supposed to "protect and serve", right? Where does inciting violence enter into the picture? It's the 1970s all over again with RCMP dirty tricks. Wasn't there a Royal Commission on RCMP activities back then, and wasn't the RCMP Security Service disbanded (and re-formed as CSIS) over their activities?

"protect and serve" is a common misconception the public has of the police. There is no law or constitutional statute that says that.

Rather their purpose is to serve and protect government from you which in many cases are the victim. Try and look at the police as the knee breakers and goons of organized crime and you will have a pretty good idea of where they sit in relation to the public.

Saying that; I do know good police ..they are few and far between and like everything else there are exceptions in everything.

As far as dirty tricks from the 70's ..things are worse now as they now have permission to break laws...in the 70's they didn't and that's what the problem was. It doesn't really matter they can change names , colors whatever...call themselves a brotherhood,csis . Bottom line is they can be criminal or resort to criminal if they want to.

Then cover it up if need be or even investigate themselves and rule in their favour which seems to be more common than not. Plenty of examples in the news practically on a weekly basis. They can make a hit tv show about that it's so rampant.

I don't know where this serve and protect bullshit comes from..maybe when they visit schools and preach to little kids and bridge relationships..politicians, american tv shows. The fact of the matter is it's a big fat lie in Canada.

Of course you can look at police as the meal ticket of the justice system where they process law breakers for handsome profits. Lawyers , judges, justice officials ..the whole chain makes a very hansome living off police work. They use your tax money to fund their business. Lawyers become politicians that in turn write up laws to feed there own, off this cash cow. Pretty well the same in every other country also.

Well,in my estimation, the worst abuses of the RCMP came in the 70s when they attempted to discredit the FLQ by planing bombs. Some call that a false flag operation. While the results of that was the creation of CSIS, I am not aware of a single senior or operation level cop being charged, or even fired, for planting bombs.

of course, we can go all the way back to 1919 and the shooting of strikers (were police among the strikers?) but I am still relatively certain we will find police are immune from criminal prosecution. There is, after all, a law for you and I and then another law for the police and military, another one for the rich and pillars of the community, another one for senior politicians, and another for political protestors (usually the harshest one).

I would love to see a complaint filed against the SQ and/or the RCMP on this matter that resulted in forcing them to come clean and abandon this nefarious practice. Especially if it exposed their political masters as well.

quote:Originally posted by farnival:

the other fishy thing is the cammo guy's gloves. pretty nice. i wear lots of specialty gloves. cycling, sailing, work, etc. those look pretty robust and expensive. funny how the look similar to the riot cop pointing down above him.

That's a very good point. They look like mountain biking gloves. I don't think they look like the other officer's gloves though but what do you want to bet that SDQ bike cops have that style?

ETA

And why doesn't it surprise me at all that the SDQ is involved in this?

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]

quote:Frustrated Mess: if protestors had of tackled them and removed the rocks from their hands, they would probably face charges of assault police.

A person can be charged with assault without being charged the more serious offence of assaulting a police officer. In this case, that's what would likely have happened. That way, the police can keep up the charade.

If you listen carefully to the YouTube tape, you can hear one of the union guys in the protest say something like, "That won't help," as a way of discouraging another protester from removing the mask from one of the provocateurs. The union guy may have been thinking of preventing the arrest of a fellow protester for "assault" of a provocateur.

Supplemental: Don't forget people, that the goal here is peaceful protest. At such an event, you want to demonstrate your dissent without getting arrested. Of course the conduct of the police, the instructions they have been given, have a bearing on that. So you prepare for such eventualities. And some forms of protest involve deliberately putting yourself in harm's way to compel the police to arrest you. (Dr. Henry Morgentaler did that, for example.) But getting sucked into a conflict with some provocateurs, even if it is in the process of exposing their sinister activities, and getting arrested as a result is a kind of victory for them. Their general goal is to discredit a peaceful protest.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
... but I am still relatively certain we will find police are immune from criminal prosecution. .with recent events like the killing of First Nations people and young men in RCMP custody, Canadians need to keep pressing this issue so that the RCMP are not immune and left to investigate their own members. the Edmonton Police force has similar practices. People are getting fed up with hearing how another citizen was killed while in police custody, and the officers are found exonerated in spite of forensic reports that contradict the suspect officer's testimony.

The Canada-wide practice of the police investigating themselves and being put in charge of complaints against themselves has to come to an end. We have the same problem with doctors in Canada; medical "errors" that result in the death of a patient get swept under the rug by that "self-regulating" profession as well. It's a no-brainer.

The reality is the police in this case have been found out. So what? Nothing will come of it and they will be right back at it at the next protest. Just keep in mind that when you see old people and children being pepper sprayed and peaceful marchers being charged by a phalanx of riot cops on horseback, chances are good the incitement to violence was caused by the police themselves.

Judy R. and I were watching the video, and she brought up something that I thought was interesting. I told her I thought they were police and not protesters. She hasn't had a chance to look at it completely in depth or read the articles about it, she's just watched the video, I think. But one thing she noticed was that the three were speaking in French to the police, but the union leader talking to them was speaking English. If on the off chance these actually WERE protesters, why speak to them in English when you're in Quebec and you can see them speaking French to the cops? Why not speak in French to them if you're trying to reason with them or get information from them? If it so happens that these guys didn't speak English and actually WERE protesters and not cops, then they wouldn't have really had a chance to say so. How would it be possible to find that out if you're not speaking the same language?

However, that said, I think it stretches credibility that the cops wouldn't arrest people wearing "black bloc" outfits and carrying rocks as weapons. It looks pretty fishy to me. My vote is still cops.

quote:Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
The reality is the police in this case have been found out. So what? .....

don't underestimate the potential of citizens to become proactive and engage in activism when they see injustice

Monia Mazigh led a year-long campaign to have her husband released from a Syrian prison. Mazigh joined with a number of human rights groups and rallied several communities to press the government for his release.

quote: But one thing she noticed was that the three were speaking in French to the police, but the union leader talking to them was speaking English. If on the off chance these actually WERE protesters, why speak to them in English when you're in Quebec and you can see them speaking French to the cops?
When caught between a rock, the police, and a hard place, people making you feel unwelcome, most move along the path of least resistance and toward safety. They sought safety behind police lines and moved toward them. That says a whole helluva lot. At least as much as the bottom of a boot.

FM, such things have really happened. The origin of May Day, International Workers Day, was founded in the struggle for the 8-hour workday. In Chicago, at Haymarket in May of 1886, a bomb was thrown, likely by a provocateur, killing a policeman. The regular cops immediately opened fire on the unarmed demonstrators. We will never know the full extent of the casualties as those who were in need of medical attention feared for their lives.

Every May Day is not only an expression of solidarity with working people around the world but also a memorial honouring the dead victims of the struggle for the eight hour workday, including those who were sentenced to death for the actions of the provocateur(s).

After execution, the Haymarket Martyrs received complete pardons. Their names were: August Spies, Albert Parsons, Adolph Fischer, George Engel, (all hanged) Louis Lingg, (suicide while in custody) Michael Schwab, Samuel Fielden and Oscar Neebe. (the latter 3 were release from prison in 1893 following the pardon)

It's good to see that even provocateurs have 'evolved' from bombs to rocks. That's a kind of progress, eh?

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

It's important to note that the boots the people are wearing are slightly different than the ones on the vibram site. The logo on the Canadian boots is yellow. It could be made by a Canadian subsidiary.

The website is a US website and may not list US manufacturers of boots that use that sole.

btw

was that Maude Barlow at 3:11 in the video in silver/grey with sunglasses on beside Dave Coles? then again being interviewed at 4:10 ?

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]

quote:Originally posted by Slider:

Stay focused Heywood.....

Do you deliberately try to be antagonistic or does it just kinda happen? I'm well aware of models and versions. I was just making a point.

If you can't be polite when addressing me, then don't.

It's nice to see that people are starting to get what's happening out there, and it's not just the left, it's regular people who are starting to see how our rights are being erroded, and how we're being silenced when we stand up for them.

The problem is, how are we going to get regular citizens to DO something about this.

Between citizens like Maher Arar being illegally refused entry into the country on false premises, protest leaders being arrested before large demonstrations (can't remember his name, but an East Indian guy from Vancouver a couple years back), to the 'plants' within muslim groups that are encouraging people to 'plan terror attacks' like is seemingly the case with the Toronto Terrorist group, false flag events of all kinds, and what for? It's certainly not to keep us safer because we were a lot safer before these tactics were implemented.

I think the intention of using provocateurs was an attempt to raise simple peaceful protest into an excuse to label protesters as insurgents. It should be very clear who the insurgents are in Canada. Now read the handbook so you know how they work.

U.S MILITARY DOCUMENT DECLARES EXISTENCE OF "DOMESTIC INSURGENCY" INSIDE UNITED STATES PLAN OUTLINES GOVERNMENT INTENT TO USE MILITARY FORCE AGAINST U.S. CITIZENS OVER POLITICAL ISSUES! DESCRIBES USING PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS, OUTRIGHT MILITARY FORCE AND MEDIA PROPAGANDA AGAINST U.S. CITIZENS: July 18, 2007

We all know Harper kisses american butt...

We all know regarding security the Canadian politician is only concerned about one ass only, there very own.

We all know Harper would quickly adopt anything the american establishment requires him too.

So here it is the US handbook on the do's don't 's and how's of controlling a domestic insurgency.

I don't think we have reached this level of paranoia quite yet but with Neocons at the helms ..anything is possible!
--------------------------------------------------

Classification: Top Secret-Noforn as of 1 June 2007 Distribution Restriction: Distribution authorized to the DOD and DOD contractors only to maintain operations security. This determination was made on 1 June 2007. Other requests for this document must be referred to (redacted)\

Destruction Notice: Destroy by any method that will prevent disclosure of contents or reconstruction of the document. . This publication uses the term insurgent to describe those taking part in any activity designed to undermine or to overthrow the established authorities Counterinsurgency is those military, paramilitary, political, economic, psychological, and civic actions taken by a government to defeat insurgency (JP 1-02). It is an offensive approach involving all elements of national power; it can take place across the range of operations and spectrum of conflict In dealing with the local populace, the primary aims must be to: Protect the population. Establish local political institutions. Reinforce local governments. Eliminate insurgent capabilities. Exploit information from local sources. An insurgency is organized movement aimed at the overthrow of a constituted government through use of subversion and armed conflict (JP 1-02). It is a protracted politico-military struggle designed to weaken government control and legitimacy while increasing insurgent control. Political power is the central issue in an insurgency.

An insurgent organization normally consists of four elements: Leadership.Combatants (main forces, regional forces, local forces). Cadre (local political leaders that are also called the militants). Mass base (the bulk of the membership). The support of the people, passive or active then, is the center of gravity. It must be gained in whatever proportion is necessary to sustain the insurgent movement (or, contrariwise, to defeat it). As in any political campaign, all levels of support are relative. Insurgent movements begin as "fire in the minds of men." Insurgent leaders commit themselves to building a new world. They construct the organization to carry through this desire. Generally, popular grievances become insurgent causes when interpreted and shaped by the insurgent leadership. The insurgency grows if the cadre that is local insurgent leaders and representatives can establish a link between the insurgent movement and the desire for solutions to grievances sought by the local population Insurgent leaders will exploit opportunities created by government security force actions. The behaviour of security forces is critical. Lack of security force discipline leads to alienation, and security force abuse of the populace is a very effective insurgent recruiting tool. Consequently, specific insurgent tactical actions are often planned to frequently elicit overreaction from security force individuals and units. Insurgencies are dynamic political movements, resulting from real or perceived grievance or neglect that leads to alienation from an established government. A successful counterinsurgency will result in the neutralization by the state of the insurgency and its effort to form a counter state. While many abortive insurgencies are defeated by military and police actions alone, if an insurgency has tapped into serious grievances and has mobilized a significant portion of the population, simply returning to the status quo may not be an option. Reform may be necessary, but reform is a matter for the state, using all of its human and material resources. Security forces are only one such resource.

The response must be multifaceted and coordinated, yet states typically charge their security forces with "waging counterinsurgency." This the security forces cannot do alone. These imperatives are-Facilitate establishment or reestablishment of a 'legitimate government’. Counterinsurgency requires perseverance. Foster popular support for the incumbent US government. Prepare to perform functions and conduct operations that are outside normal scope of training. Coordinate with US governmental departments and agencies, and with vital non-governmental, agencies. Urban operations. Protection of government facilities. Protection of infrastructure. Protection of commercial enterprises vital to the HN economy. Protection of cultural facilities. Prevention of looting. Military police functions. Close interaction with civilians. Assistance with reconstruction training or retraining a national military police and security force. Establishing and maintaining local government credibility. Contributing local government is both tangible and psychological. Local security forces must reinforce and be integrated into the plan at every stage. Facilitate and use information and intelligence obtained from local sources to gain access to the insurgent's economic and social base of support, order of battle, tactics, techniques, and procedures Army forces help local pro-government police, paramilitary, and military forces perform counterinsurgency, area security, or local security operations.

They advise and assist in finding, dispersing, capturing, and destroying the insurgent force. US forces may conduct offensive operations to disrupt and destroy insurgent combat formations. These operations prevent the insurgents from attacking government-controlled areas. There are many organizations and extensive resources available to aid counterinsurgent forces. Commanders should not overlook the aid these organizations may provide. All forces assigned an AO or function should determine which departments and agencies are assisting in that AO and coordinate actions so that there is no duplication of effort. Such departments, councils and agencies include-\National Security Council. Department of Defense.Department of State. Department of Justice. Department of the Treasury. Department of Homeland Security. Department of AgricultureDepartment of Commerce. Central Intelligence Agency. Department of Transportation Various governmental departments directly administer or support other governmental agencies.

Examples of these US agencies are-The US Coast Guard (under Department of Homeland Security). The Federal Bureau of Investigation (under Department of Justice). Immigration Customs Enforcement (under Department of Homeland Security). Federal Communications Commission. The proper application of force is a critical component to any successful counterinsurgency operation.

In a counterinsurgency, the center of gravity is public support. In order to defeat an insurgent force, US forces must be able to separate insurgents from the population. At the same time, US forces must conduct themselves in a manner that enables them to maintain popular domestic support. Excessive or indiscriminate use of force is likely to alienate the local populace, thereby increasing support for insurgent forces. Insufficient use of force results in increased risks to US forces and perceived weaknesses that can jeopardize the mission by emboldening insurgents and undermining domestic popular support. Achieving the appropriate balance requires a thorough understanding of the nature and causes of the insurgency, the end state, and the military's role in a counterinsurgency operation. Nevertheless, US forces always retain the right to use necessary and proportional force for individual and unit self-defence in response to a hostile act or demonstrated hostile intent.

The media, print and broadcast (radio, television and the Internet), play a vital role in societies involved in a counterinsurgency. Members of the media have a significant influence and shaping impact on political direction, national security objectives, and policy and national will. The media is a factor in military operations. It is their right and obligation to report to their respective audiences on the use of military force. They demand logistic support and access to military operations while refusing to be controlled. Their desire for immediate footage and on-the-spot coverage of events, and the increasing contact with units and Soldiers (for example, with embedded reporters) require commanders and public affairs officers to provide guidance to leaders and Soldiers on media relations. However, military planners must provide and enforce ground rules to the media to ensure operations security. Public affairs offices plan for daily briefings and a special briefing after each significant event because the media affect and influence each potential target audience external and internal to the AO. Speaking with the media in a forward-deployed area is an opportunity to explain what our organizations and efforts have accomplished. Continuous PSYOP are mounted to-Counter the effects of insurgent propaganda. Relate controls to the security and well being of the population. Portray a favourable governmental image.

Control measures must-Be authorized by national laws and regulations (counterparts should be trained not to improvise unauthorized measures). Be tailored to fit the situation (apply the minimum force required to achieve the de-sired result). Be supported by effective local intelligence. Be instituted in as wide an area as possible to prevent bypass or evasion. Be supported by good communications. Be enforceable. Be lifted as the need diminishes. Be compatible, where possible, with local customs and traditions. Establish and maintain credibility of local government. A control program may be developed in five phases: Securing and defending the area internally and externally. Organizing for law enforcement. Executing cordon and search operations. Screening and documenting the population (performing a detailed census). Performing public administration, to include resource control. Support to the judiciary may be limited to providing security to the existing courts or may lead to more comprehensive actions to build local, regional, and national courts and the required support apparatus. To avoid overcrowding in police jails, the courts must have an efficient and timely magistrate capability, ideally co-located with police stations and police jails, to review cases for trial Cordon and search is a technique used by military and police forces in both urban and rural environments. It is frequently used by counterinsurgency forces conducting a population and resource control mission against small centers of population or subdivisions of a larger community.

To be effective, cordon and search operations must have sufficient forces to effectively cordon off and thoroughly search target areas, to include subsurface areas.PSYOP, civil affairs, and specialist interrogation teams should augment cordon and search forces to increase the effectiveness of operations. Consider the following when conducting cordon and search operations: Cordon and search operations may be conducted as follows: Disposition of troops should-Facilitate visual contact between posts within the cordon. Provide for adequate patrolling and immediate deployment of an effective re-serve force. Priority should be given to-Sealing the administrative center of the community. Occupying all critical facilities. Detaining personnel in place. Preserving and securing all records, files, and other archives. Key facilities include-Administrative buildings. Police stations. News media facilities. Post offices. Communications centers. Transportation offices and motor pools. Prisons and other places of detention.Schools.Medical facilities. Search Techniques include-Search teams of squad size organized in assault, support, and security elements. One target is assigned per team. Room searches are conducted by two-person teams. Room search teams are armed with pistols, assault weapons, and automatic weapons. Providing security for search teams screening operations and facilities. Pre-search coordination includes- between control personnel and screening team leaders. Study of layout plans. Communications, that is, radio, whistle, and hand signals. Disposition of suspects. On-site security. Guard entrances, exits (to include the roof), halls, corridors, and tunnels. Assign contingency tasks for reserve. Room searches conducted by two- or three-person teams. Immobilize occupants with one team member. Search room with other team member. Search all occupants. When available, a third team member should be the re-corder. Place documents in a numbered envelope and tag the associated individual with a corresponding number.

SCREENING AND DOCUMENTING THE POPULATION Screening and documentation include following: Systematic identification and registration. Issuance of individual identification cards containing-A unique number. Picture of individual. Personal identification data. Fingerprints an official stamp (use different colors for each administration region). Family group census cards, an official copy of which is retained at the local police agency. These must include a picture and appropriate personal data. Frequent use of mobile and fixed checkpoints for inspection, identification, and registration of documents. Preventing counterfeiting of identification and registration documents by laminating and embossing. Programs to inform the population of the need for identification and registration. Covert surveillance is a collection effort with the responsibility fixed at the intelligence/security division or detective division of the police department. Covert techniques, ranging from application of sophisticated electronics systems to informants, should include-Informant nets. Reliability of informants should be verified. Protection of identity is a must. Block control. Dividing a community or populated area into zones where a trusted resident reports on the activities of the population. If the loyalty of block leaders is questionable, an informant net can be established to verify questionable areas. Units designated for counterinsurgency operations 115th MIB, Schofield, HI 704th MIB, Fort Made, MD, Collaboration with NSA 513th MIB, Fort Gordon, GA in Collaboration with NSA Arlington Hall Station, VA\Aberdeen Proving Ground (Maryland) US Army Intelligence and Security Command INSCOM- Huachuca (Arizona) INTELLIGENCE THREAT and ANALYSIS CENTER ( Center Analysis for threat and Intelligence) 501st Military Intelligence Brigade EAC3rd Military Intelligence Battalion Exploitation Area . . . . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
[url=http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm"FEMA]http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm"FEMA[/url] concentration camps", already established, constructed and manned inside the United States, to be utilized to house "insurgents" who are rounded-up by government.

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Didn't Canada write the book on internment camps?
There was a link to joint US/Canadian camps at the fema site but it doesn't work. YES joint US/Canadian camps being planned.
[img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: Buddy Kat ]

quote:Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Yes, that was Maude Barlow, Temporal H. She looked a little off balance, eh?

I don't understand what you mean. She seemed to be on her game to me, as did Dave Coles and the other members of the Council of Canadians, the Canadian Labour Congress

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]

quote:Originally posted by TemporalHominid:

I respect Maude Barlow, Dave Coles, Naomi Klein, etc and I agree with their political views, their activism and dissent.

I have no interest in the views of the masked cowards that carry stones and hijack protests. I can not respect masked cowards.

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]
You don't get it do you. You see someone in a mask with a rock and claim they represent anarchism. Gee they turned out to agent provacateurs just like so often in the past. But you can still vilify all anarchists from your high horse. So is there a anarchist under your bed or just a red?

quote:Originally posted by kropotkin1951:

So is there a anarchist under your bed or just a red?I don't know, but I have a feeling you are going to insist on telling me what the reality is.

quote:Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
Sure I understand the equations well.

Moslem activist = terrorist
Anarchist activist = terrorist

that is the MSM mantra is it not?

I don't know. But if you insist it is it must be true.

Personally I think both equations are incorrect, and this argument you present is a red herring.

quote: I don't know if these masked people were provacateurs hired by the police, they are more liekey the small minority that always show up that are anarchists.

quote: quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
Sure I understand the equations well.
Moslem activist = terrorist
Anarchist activist = terrorist

that is the MSM mantra is it not?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know. But if you insist it is it must be true.

Personally I think both equations are incorrect, and this argument you present is a red herring.
Your first post is what I reacted too and it clearly shows your presumption that anarchists are too blame for all problems at protests without any proof. Vilifying a portion of the left is very progressive of you. Especially when others have pointed out the other events where agent provacateurs incited violence and dressed to make ignorant people believe they were anarchists.

The only language they spoke was "cop". I can't see those three stooges getting a raise for a job well done, eh? snort.