Premier Dexter enthuses over Harper election promise
April 3, 2011 - 11:35pm
It was love at first sight.
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Premier Darrell Dexter issued a statement praising Harper for promising "a loan guarantee or equivalent financial support."
"This is wonderful news," he said Thursday. "I spoke to Mr. Harper this evening, and affirmed that this project is a win-win for all of us that will change the economic landscape of this province and the region for generations to come. The Lower Churchill project is a game-changer for Atlantic Canada, and a major environmental and energy win for all of Canada."
Of course, Dexter is only Asshole #2.
Asshole #1 was Premier Jean Charest, who immediately blasted Harper for promising money to someone other than Jean Charest.
KenS can't get a single post past the spam filter, so he PMed me and asked to post the following reply on his behalf:
I am definitely no fan of Darell Dexter or the government.
But you are being just plain stupid.
The Churchill project and the undersea cable are definitely good things for Nova Scotia- environmentally as well as ecomically. We're at work to make sure we actually get the full benefits.
Politician takes something good, and gets positively gushy about it. Oh, that's really news, isnt it.
Nor did Dexter "enthuse over Harper election promise". This has been in the pipe for a while. When he was asked about the timing this morning he did anything but gush about that. Essentialy: 'we're not going to quibble with when the support comes.'
My reply to Ken:
Why did Dexter have to praise Harper? Because he takes it for granted that Harper will win and make good on his promise? Why didn't Dexter just say, "I'll wait to hear the positions of the other leaders on this issue before commenting"? Or why didn't he say, "I don't understand - I didn't see this in the budget speech - what's up here?"?
My answer to these questions is that, obviously, he is not someone who has the best interests of the Canadian people at heart - that he is someone who is willing to sell what small bit of a soul he may have left for dirty short-term political advantage.
Ken, being closer to the situation, may have far better answers to the questions I just posed. I promise to post them on his behalf as they come in.
KenS can't get a single post past the spam filter, so he PMed me and asked to post the following reply on his behalf:
I've tried 6 times to post something this morning and they've all been turned down. Let's see if this one works. What's up with this site??????
I've tried 6 times to post something this morning and they've all been turned down. Let's see if this one works. What's up with this site??????
There's a secret way to get past the spam filter. For obvious reasons, I'm not at liberty to post it here.
And your speculation is all on the wrong track: now that the commitment is made, the loan guarantee is a done deal whoever wins the election.
Oh really?
Like the Kelowna Accord?
And national child care?
Wait a sec. Does that also mean the F-35 purchase is a "done deal" no matter who wins?
Ken, you didn't answer a single one of my questions.
1. Why wasn't this in the budget? How can it be a "done deal" if it wasn't in the budget?? And why didn't Dexter raise that question?
2. Why didn't Dexter seek the same commitment from the other party leaders? Why would a premier, of any party, thank someone campaigning for power for an election promise??
And here's another question. Is it in the best interests of Nova Scotians to see Harper regain power? What has Dexter said on that issue? Has he supported the federal campaign?
You see, many of us have spent many years under NDP governments. It's not like the federal scene, where all you have to go on is promises. What the NDP does provincially, it should be counted on to do federally. Is that unfair? Or is it plain old simple realism?
Dexter is a disgrace. He was elected on a promise to cut taxes. Now he intervenes in an election campaign to thank Harper. He should be thrown far away at the earliest opportunity. We knew this before. We know it better now.
Another fine reason to formally disconnect the federal and provincial NDPs. It just leads to problems.
WAIT!!! I screwed up Ken's last post, so I'm posting it here without my usual reply. SORRY!
I dont think its so much that I'm closer to the ground in the sense of being in Nova Scotia. Although I think you not being here, and not being an environmentalist here, contributes to you not understanding the context.
You seem not to realize, in part because its not the sort of thing you care to pay attention to, that anywhere in Canada that is about as mild praise as can be done. Not "faint praise," because that is actually a sub-textual dig. But it is as little praise as one can offer.
When the feds give you money, you thank them. If it is a government you like, then you praise them in a manner that your thread title implies: "Dexter enthuses over election promise"... which did not happen.
If it is a government you do not like, then you issue a press release, and wait for reporters to call you and ask questions.... which is what did happen.
For what its worth by the way- Newfoundland wanted this at least as bad. And its pretty clear that the Harper crew told the Premeir that you can have it if you gush praise all over us, appear with Harpe, etc. It is apparent that this fix was known a few weeks ago, which would explain Danny Willimas refusing to come to his own tribute dinner. Although Dexter does not have Danny's bluster, I suspect he would have refused such a bargain as well. Albeit, doing it in a way that did not encourage the offer to be taken away.... "We don't thnk this is the appropriate way to handle this." [Sub-text: you are going to look good without mw licking your boots, and you need to look good, so....]
[And your speculation is all on the wrong track: now that the commitment is made, the loan guarantee is a done deal whoever wins the election. Thanking the feds for the handout is the Canadian way. Its not like you have to be worried about whether they will keep their promise if they win.]
Harper playing Dexter like a fiddle - it's worth a thousand words:
Ottawa is only providing a loan guarantee for this project. The project will be funded by a partnership between Nova Scotia Power's parent company, Emera, and Nalcor Energy, the Newfoundland government's provincially owned electric power company. Nova Scotia and Newfoundland governments had to lobby our stooges in Ottawa to do their jobs, and that's not always an easy thing to push and prod them into doing with Charest's bunch whining about NAFTA and "market" issues.
Congratulations goes out to Nova Scotia's NDP government and Newfoundland for a job well done.
You are absurd Unionist.
Hey it worked, I got through.
Dare I committ myself to write a reply, only to be snubbed by Captcha thug?
A loan guarantee would never be in the budget.
And it is not remotely like the Kelowna Accord, or the fighter jets or all those other things that everyone knows are contingent on the promise making government being re-elected.
Let me be clear: you are making stuff up that maybe this was done because Dexter worries about the promise being kept. This sort of a promise is a done deal: because it is cheap, is not a long lasting expenditure commitment, and would be suicide for any government to renege on. You don't get it. More like you refuse to get it: Dexter didnt get commitments from the other party leaders because they are irrelevant. Everyone who pays attention, and isnt looking for something to concoct, knows that the commitment will be honoured by any government.
As to provincial governments overtly and explicitly speaking for or against any federal government- its just customary that it isnt done in Canada unless the Prime Minister has done something specific to that province. What it does to them 'as Canadians,' is just treated as something you do not get into.
Doug: "Another fine reason to formally disconnect the federal and provincial NDPs. It just leads to problems."
I would certainly like to see the federal party more disconnected, in practice, with or without the formal disconnect.
But Unionist making up 'embarrasments' is not a reason for doing so.
For that matter, the fact that provincial NDP governments limit their comments about federal politics is a measure of the de facto policy disconnect that already exists between provincial and federal levels of all the parties. And a formal disconnect would not change anything, because most people are goin to take the sensible approach that if they both use the same label, they are at least very closely related. Duh.
The reason I want to see the disconnect is so that the federal party is not organizationaly dependent on the provincial sections and their priorities.
Like I said, a formal break is not going to change the optics of the policy conflicts between the two levels.
And it is not remotely like the Kelowna Accord, or the fighter jets or all those other things that everyone knows are contingent on the promise making government being re-elected.
Oh, pardon me for not realizing that Harper's promise of a loan guarantee "or equivalent" (because, Ken, for your information, he has not promised a loan guarantee) is solid, while when Paul Martin actually signs the Kelowna Accord while in power, it means nothing. What are you trying to say here??
I never said that. Not once. You're the one concocting, inventing, misreading. I asked the question. My accusation against Dexter, if you read carefully, is that he is an asshole who doesn't even have the decency to not drool and slaver over some bullshit promise made by Harper - that he is an opportunist - the same Dexter who came to power promising to cut spending and taxes. He has not changed. No wonder he is hugging and kissing Harper.
Oh, by the way, why don't you actually read what Dexter said, rather than claiming he was just being minimally diplomatic:
Having an f-ing orgasm, if you ask me. What a creepy cheerleader for Harper. And people here can defend this bastard? This is the most unprincipled behaviour imaginable. Looking for short-term gain and risking putting Canada in peril.
I asked you - why didn't he say, "I'd like to know where the other party leaders stand on this." And your answer is to make excuses for this piece of waste? Why are you doing this?
What a farce. Like commitments to get out of Afghanistan?
What a load of bull. "Customary". Are you serious? A premier can't say, "Don't vote for Harper", unless Harper has done something bad to his or her province? And you're defending this nonsensical thesis? The premier stops being Canadian when elected? Stops being entitled to voice an opinion??
Dexter voiced his opinion. He talked to Harper on the phone! A royal f*ing audience!! And Harper said "I'll give you MONEY!!" What a "win-win", says Dexter!!
Ottawa is only providing a loan guarantee for this project.
Fidel can't even bring himself to say, "HARPER is only providing a loan guarantee for this project" - because then it might seem that Dexter had a phone chat with Harper and got some money! Which doesn't help Fidel's theory that any little thing Dexter (whom he's never met, I'll bet) does must be great, because he heard somewhere that Dexter, even though he hugs and kisses Harper, is from the NDP!
What a farce.
How much money did Harper give to Dexter's NDP Government of Nova Scotia for this power project? (Not a trick question.)
Ottawa is only providing a loan guarantee for this project.
Fidel can't even bring himself to say, "HARPER is only providing a loan guarantee for this project" - because then it might seem that Dexter had a phone chat with Harper and got some money! Which doesn't help Fidel's theory that any little thing Dexter (whom he's never met, I'll bet) does must be great, because he heard somewhere that Dexter, even though he hugs and kisses Harper, is from the NDP!
What a farce.
You're the one making it sound like the money is coming from the Conservative Party's own purse not me. And that's simply not the case. There isn't even any money coming from the general vicinity of Ottawa. Nothing as in not one thin dime.
I know that our two old line parties have been generally politically impotent over the last 35 years or so, but they are merely doing their jobs this time around. This loan guarantee thing is nothing extraordinary for a federal government. Electric power is necessary for industrial expansion and economic growth in general. The risk is small for financing electric power capabilities to provinces in short supply.
This isn't the same as the Tories backed by Liberals shovelling billions of dollars in corporate welfare handouts to profitable oil companies in Alberta needlessly. It's not that kind of political favour.
I liked it better when I couldnt post.
Dexter didnt get commitments from the other party leaders because they are irrelevant. Everyone who pays attention, and isnt looking for something to concoct, knows that the commitment will be honoured by any government.
Does this mean that all of Stephen Harper's election promises made during this campaign are binding on the Liberals and the NDP if they should form the next government, whereas campaign promises made by Iggy and Jack are NOT binding on the Conservatives if they form the next government?
Have I got that right?
Very selective quoting. Even though it is in the same paragraph, you left out the answer to your "question".
And it is not remotely like the Kelowna Accord, or the fighter jets or all those other things that everyone knows are contingent on the promise making government being re-elected.
This sort of a promise is a done deal: because it is cheap, is not a long lasting expenditure commitment, and would be suicide for any government to renege on. Dexter didnt get commitments from the other party leaders because they are irrelevant. Everyone who pays attention, and isnt looking for something to concoct, knows that the commitment will be honoured by any government.
Just noticed that Unionist earlier took the same thing out of context in the same way:
What a farce. Like commitments to get out of Afghanistan?
Great principles act alike.
A few days ago Duceppe said Quebec paid for its hydro development with Quebec money - this loan guarantee gives the perception that Ottawa is subsidizing Hydro-Quebec's main competitor.
ETA: Harper hydro plan 'an attack' Duceppe says
excerpt:
In Quebec City, Premier Jean Charest said Thursday the province has nothing against the hydro development, but stressed it won't let Ottawa get involved.
ETA: Darn - CAPTCH'd again!
Dexter didnt get commitments from the other party leaders because they are irrelevant. Everyone who pays attention, and isnt looking for something to concoct, knows that the commitment will be honoured by any government.
Does this mean that all of Stephen Harper's election promises made during this campaign are binding on the Liberals and the NDP if they should form the next government, whereas campaign promises made by Iggy and Jack are NOT binding on the Conservatives if they form the next government?
Have I got that right?
Harper is the one who sent Flaherty's budget off to the printing presses without consulting Canada's democratically elected Parliament.
And any coalition deal between the NDP, Liberals, (and Bloc) would also necessitate negotiation of specific policies and legislations on a case by case basis. This is another example of how democracy is supposed to work.
But this FPTPian political maneuvering is all in someone else's mind. This has nothing to do with democracy or extracurricular government spending not mentioned in the budget. It's not real.
This thread is a farce.
For that matter, the fact that provincial NDP governments limit their comments about federal politics is a measure of the de facto policy disconnect that already exists between provincial and federal levels of all the parties.
Listen to yourself. When the Ontario NDP expelled Basil Hargrove, can you recall the charge? Was Paul Martin running for premier of Ontario at the time?
This sort of a promise is a done deal: because it is cheap, is not a long lasting expenditure commitment, and would be suicide for any government to renege on.
That's the answer to my question?
I guess that means that if Iggy or Layton makes campaign promises that are cheap and not long-lasting expenditure commitments, Harper would be committing suicide if his re-elected government "reneged" on them? Or to be more specific, if Iggy (instead of Harper) had promised to guarantee the financing loan, Harper would be bound to honour the commitment?
Harper is done. After he fails to win a phony-baloney majority this time around, his Bay Street handlers will yank him from the top party job. Harper's future as head stooge ended when Layton and company pulled the plug on the phony minority Tories' bathwater.
Impossible to have a discussion with people who twist your words repeatedly.
Question: can we discuss the tensions between Quebec and Nf/Lb over the Lower Churchhill here, or does that belong in a separate thread?
Why did Dexter have to praise Harper? Because he takes it for granted that Harper will win and make good on his promise? Why didn't Dexter just say, "I'll wait to hear the positions of the other leaders on this issue before commenting"? Or why didn't he say, "I don't understand - I didn't see this in the budget speech - what's up here?"?
My answer to these questions is that, obviously, he is not someone who has the best interests of the Canadian people at heart - that he is someone who is willing to sell what small bit of a soul he may have left for dirty short-term political advantage.
And from another thread:
Know why I do it? Because the enemy of my enemy can be, temporarily and for specific purposes, my ally. Because people (including you and me) have all kinds of toxic shit circulating through our brains and occasionally spewing out of our mouths.
The Lower Churchill issue has been circulating on and off in the news for some time. How much longer should Atlantic Canadians wait for opposition statements of support? Until after the federal election to avoid mucking up their Quebec pandering strategies? Dexter may well indeed be deluded in accepting promises from the Harper regime at face value, or else he's laying it out on the table to see if anyone else will drop in for a bite. I would have thought you might appreciate that sort of pragmatism.
For example, when Bob Rae's ONDP Government provided loan guarantees to a steel mill facing bankruptcy in Northern Ontario in the early 1990s, Mike the Knife Harris' bunch couldn't or did not do anything about it after they were elected in 1995. The steel mill in Sault Ste Marie turned its situation around. The company gradually returned to profitability in lockstep with Ontario's economic recovery, which was recovering at a greater rate than any other provincial one by 1994 and provincial books on-track for balanced for by 2000. That was until Harris' bunch were elected in 1995, and they made sure to throw us back into deficit mode even though economic recovery was underway before they tookover.
Whatever party forms the next federal government, it would be silly for them to remove loan guarantees from a financial deal already set in motion. Why? What purpose would it serve? Are there any real world examples of it ever happening?
And not only that we might ask ourselves, what is the real meaning of life? Fabulous prizes in store for the best answer.
From the link I provided upthread:
In Quebec City, Premier Jean Charest said Thursday the province has nothing against the hydro development, but stressed it won't let Ottawa get involved.
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I think part of the problem is that Quebec Hydro wants to continue selling surplus power to New York state at a premium while neighboring provinces struggle. QH still wants to maintain a monopoly in the region and eat their cake in US markets at the same time. I'm not seeing things their way on the neoliberal free market mumbo jumbo. Quebec has more than enough power for its own needs. What's the problem? It's not like the feds are offering Newfoundland and martimes free cake and not Quebec - it's a loan guarantee to do something about their shortage of power. Electrical power is like health care - it's a basic necessity according to the UN whereas following neoliberal market voodoo is not. And HST is another issue altogether.
Is it just me or is the Nova Scotia provincial NDP party a carbon copy of every conservative government before them?
If I was Layton,I'd make it a point to distance myself from these fools.
The problem as I see it is that the feds have certain obligations to provinces for basics like subsidizing, or even simply providing loan guarantees for electrical power projects where necessary, health care etc. This is not money coming from the feds just a loan guarantee in case the provincial power companies muck it up, which is prolly a low probability. It's hydro-electric power not bottomless nuclear money pits as per Puerto Ontario.
The feds also owe a duty to the provinces for fair taxation. They are two separate issues, and that's between Harper and Duceppe. But Nova Scotia and the maritimes do have basic needs for electrical power, and Charest more than Duceppe is confusing non-priorities for market ideology with basic human rights as laid out by United Nations. Trust the Harpers to get themselves embroiled in a dustup in such a way.
Impossible to have a discussion with people who twist your words repeatedly.
Actually, what's impossible is reconciling your claim that Harper's cheap campaign promises are binding on any successor government with the obvious fact that Harper is free to ignore everybody else's cheap campaign promises if he gets re-elected.
You embrace some kind of asymmetrical view of campaign promises, whereby opposition candidates' promises aren't binding on anyone but themselves, whereas Harper's campaign promises - at least some of them - are binding on everyone. You seem to be confusing announcements of government commitments with campaign promises. Harper has lost the confidence of the House; we're into an election campaign.
He no longer has any legal or moral authority to make commitments on behalf of future governments other than his own.
He no longer has any legal or moral authority to make commitments on behalf of future governments other than his own.
Exactly. I don't understand why everyone can't see this.
So what is it, specifically, that the next federal government has no obligation to continue doing for Nova Scotia in particular? And how much would cancelling Harper's Machiavellian good doobie favour cost Nova Scotia's and Newfoundland's power companies?
Yeah, its hard to have much sympathy for Quebec on this one. They look like the bully. Is Charest speaking for the whole province or does the opposition take a more co-operative approach with their east coast neighbours?
He's speaking for the whole province.
The result of the Federal financial help will be to reduce the production price of the electricity produced in lower Churchill and, since an important part of the electricity would be sold to the USA, it will enter in competition against Hydro-Québec. If NFL financed the project themselves, it would be acceptable for Québec, but the Federal government's financial backing results in a "disloyal competition" by allowing NFL to sell their electricity at a lower price than what it will really cost. This will, in the long run, diminish the profits made from Hydro-Québec's exported electricity's profit margins.
And, since HQ's dividends are sent to Québec, this will cost us money. And for reference, Québec has never received a cent for developping our electricity from the Federal government.
If you can read French, the details are here:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/dossiers/elections-federales/201104/...
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/elections-federales/201104/01/01-43...
On another note, it's not NFL's first attempt to bypass Québec. Last year, they have asked the Federal government to build a line through Québec to sell their electricity directly to Ontario. The sensible and economic solution to the problem would be to sell the electricity to Hydro-Québec, but NFL's government has a deep hatred for Hydro-Québec, because of the Churchill Falls hydro-electric plant (for reference, NFL asked HQ to build and finance the project, in exchange for an exploitation contract until 2034, but they feel "cheated" and want more money).
Let Harper make all the stupid promises he wants, it means possibly getting wiped out in Quebec. He gave Duceppe a real gift with this one.
Dexter could have restrained his enthusiasm a bit - you know, like save some sucking up to Harper after he gets his majority.
The result of the Federal financial help will be to reduce the production price of the electricity produced in lower Churchill and, since an important part of the electricity would be sold to the USA, it will enter in competition against Hydro-Québec.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/dossiers/elections-federales/201104/01/01-4385812-bas-churchill-cas-de-concurrence-deloyale.php
And Pierre-Olivier Pineau points out that Jean Thomas-Bernard's market interference argument would be difficult to prove in court. It would have to be proved that Hydro-Quebec has suffered damages as a result. The 200 Mw of future power sold to Maine would not represent a lot of power compared to HQ supplies to northern states. Hydro Quebec, because of its size and profitability, is entitled to better interest rates when shopping for money to borrow if necessary.
It's difficult to have sympathy for an electric company with the massive "market advantage" that QH enjoys.
So you're saying that Quebec could become its own independently wealthy country some day and not have to rely on any help from Ottawa to make their way in a free market scheme of things, which is now flat on its derriere in North America?
I'm saying that Ottawa has no justification to involve itself in developping NFL's electricity, when they have not done so for Québec and, I imagine, the other provinces. If Ottawa wants to loan so much money to NFL, they must be ready to do so as well for all the others. And believe me, HQ's Thierry Vandal is just salivating at the though of having Ottawa guarantee the lonas for all future projects.
Harper is snubbing Quebec because it is the ONLY province where a vast majority of the populous do not think he's the second coming of christ.
His numbers aren't,and never have been,good in Quebec and according to a poll that was released today,the majority of Quebeckers think he's untrustworthy.
I think he's realizing he doesn't need Quebec so he can promise the other provinces the moon.
Quebec bashing resonates well with his core supporters also.
That's a solid argument. Anyone else?
Yeah, its hard to have much sympathy for Quebec on this one. They look like the bully. Is Charest speaking for the whole province or does the opposition take a more co-operative approach with their east coast neighbours?
Wyldrage and Boom Boom summed it up well.
For me, this is not a question of Québec vs. other provinces competing for the U.S. market. The same Charest who is "defending" our interests is preparing to start increasing domestic hydro rates at the demand of the banks and business, because we're not paying enough, don't you know. This is a battle between thieves. That's why I find the defence of Dexter and Harper here to be rather hard to digest.
And yes, it's a gift to Duceppe. Québec harmonized federal and provincial sales taxes 20 years ago. Ottawa is paying other provinces for the HST, but not Québec. Duceppe reminds everyone that they owe us $2 billion for that. If I were Harper, I'd promise to pay it after the deficit is licked.
I opened this thread to show the poison of partisan politics. It will make decent people defend almost any iniquity. As they say in logic and geometry: QED.
"That's why I find the defence of Dexter and Harper here to be rather hard to digest."
Sorry but I still don't understand how Darrel Dexter is equated to Steve Harper or your digestion in general. It's as if someone had said,
I see you don't feed your dog Tasty Treats(TM), therefore you must be starving your dog.
I must now report you and your otherwise healthy looking dog to the authorities.
Why not try and defend just Harper and never mind Darrel Dexter and that province renowned for its lack of electrical power and a long list of other things after too many decades in a row of old line party rule? Because apparently "the market" has failed to deliver an adequate supply of electrical power to more than just Darrell Dexter's Nova Scotia.
At least we can agree that Jean Charest is an idiot. He's another infamous floor-crosser who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
All around, you all impute bizarre motives to politicians. I guess so you can have the worldl appear more as you would wish it to be.
Among other things, Harper not coming to Quebec is not a snub. It's because they want to win as much as they can. The Conservative brand has more resiliency in Quebec than Harper, so they leave the campaigning to the candidates.
[Duh.]
And the convoluted stuff attributed to the Nova Scotia suituation is just goofy.
You bring in all sorts of claptrap about Harper not keeping promises,:the Liberals not keeping them, NDP provincial governments not keeping them, why weren't the opposition parties asked to make the same promise, governments not having moral and legal rights to bind future governments.... as if I made some huge global statement about the inviability of government promises.
But I didn't. I made a simple and very limited statement: that in cases like this, especially where the fiscal cost is negligible [and the political cost of the screaming in Quebec only accrues when the promise is made to the party that does it], once the promise is made by ANY government; no government, euther a continued Harper govt or a new govt, is going to back away from it. Thats just the way it is, no matter how much crap you all throw in.
The difficulty was in getting the commitment. There is no political concern with maintaining it.
Maybe it needs to be spelled out.
If after the election there is a new government, I suppose Quebec would bring up the loan commitment again. And maybe it would be done even with a continued Harper minority.
Either way, its a bit of noise easily deflected [MUCH more easily than right now]. As compared to a HUGE and lasting political price to pay in Atlantic Canada if the committment was reneged. And for what benefit to the government?
I'm saying that Ottawa has no justification to involve itself in developping NFL's electricity, when they have not done so for Québec and, I imagine, the other provinces. If Ottawa wants to loan so much money to NFL, they must be ready to do so as well for all the others. And believe me, HQ's Thierry Vandal is just salivating at the though of having Ottawa guarantee the lonas for all future projects.
That's a solid argument. Anyone else?
The topic is thread drift. But solid argument my ass.
In the first place its a laon guarantee, not a loan.
And I'm sure [Hydro] Quebec can have one too. But I've got news for you: Quebec Hydro has no need for one. Because they can raise 10 times that just by issuing the bonds.
If you want to argue that nobody else should get wnat Quebec does not need, fill your boots.
The result of the Federal financial help will be to reduce the production price of the electricity produced in lower Churchill and, since an important part of the electricity would be sold to the USA, it will enter in competition against Hydro-Québec.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/dossiers/elections-federales/201104/01/01-4385812-bas-churchill-cas-de-concurrence-deloyale.php
Québec has never received a cent for developping our electricity from the Federal government.
And like I said, neither will NL or NS receive a cent.
Here is what is happening.
Quebec Hydro has such deep pockets, that when they make the decision to do a development, its done.
Quebec made all the money to be made, and ever will be made, off of the Churchill Falls for transmitting the power. NL is never going to sign a deal like that again. But amazingly, Quebec is holding out for the same, or you dont transmitt across Quebec.
So NL goes looking for another way to transmitt the power. Its a stretch to go through Nova Scotia. The project operating costs are fine, but neither provinces' utilities has the cachet in New York to raise that kind of financing. So the Federal government is guaranteeing the loan.
So not only are you arguing that no one should get what Quebec does not need.... but there's also the blatant interest of keeping Quebec Hydro's monoploly on exporting power from eastern Canada.
If you want to keep arguing this, I think you need to find another board.
In any mob rule outfit like our capitalist political structure, its pretty much standard practice for the head honcho to play the regional caporegimes against one another, and to set everyone at each other's throats. And so while anti-Quebec torch and pitchfork sentiments have a charm all of their own, the focus should really be drawn back to highlight the fact that alternating handshakes and backstabbing are part and parcel of the business. It's just a temporary arrangement for Dexter to lean over and kiss Don Harper's ring. It certainly shouldn't be taken as a sign of lasting loyalty.
True.
But I should note that there is no anti-Quebec sentiment swirling around this. Nobody here is going to care about Charest frothing. And my own reaction is just against the tragi-comic defenses of jingoism posted here.
On another note, it's not NFL's first attempt to bypass Québec. Last year, they have asked the Federal government to build a line through Québec to sell their electricity directly to Ontario. The sensible and economic solution to the problem would be to sell the electricity to Hydro-Québec, but NFL's government has a deep hatred for Hydro-Québec, because of the Churchill Falls hydro-electric plant (for reference, NFL asked HQ to build and finance the project, in exchange for an exploitation contract until 2034, but they feel "cheated" and want more money).
I missed this particularly wretched piece of propaganda.
Nfld has some unreasonable deep hatred of Hydro Quebec, eh? What a joke.
Joey Smallwood made the mistake of signing a contract selling Churchill Falls power to HQ for a pittanec, in perpetuity. I think 1.5 cents per killowatt. QH not only has refused to re-negotiate this lop-sided deal. It has insisted for more than a decade that Nfld again do the "sensible" thing of selling the power to QH outright, rather than do the normal thing of an economic deal such as it will have with Nova Scotia where the transmitting province is a partner. Quebec could have had that kind of deal anytime; but opted instead for our way or the highway blackmail.
Harper playing Dexter like a fiddle - it's worth a thousand words:
Frocks and laurel wreaths would appropriately accessorize the moment.
Dexter could have restrained his enthusiasm a bit - you know, like save some sucking up to Harper after he gets his majority.
Right. And what anyone actually here thinks doesnt make any difference. I'll say it again: you'd be hard pressed, what is it 2 days later, to find a soul on the street that even knows this happened. So much enthusiasm.
Joey Smallwood made the mistake of signing a contract selling Churchill Falls power to HQ for a pittanec, in perpetuity. I think 1.5 cents per killowatt. QH not only has refused to re-negotiate this lop-sided deal. It has insisted for more than a decade that Nfld again do the "sensible" thing of selling the power to QH outright, rather than do the normal thing of an economic deal such as it will have with Nova Scotia where the transmitting province is a partner. Quebec could have had that kind of deal anytime; but opted instead for our way or the highway blackmail.
Very interesting. I said this Québec-Nova Scotia thing is a battle between thieves. I denounced Charest as a thief. I called him an "asshole". I pointed out (in threads on the Québec budget) that while whining about someone else getting federal guarantees for hydro development, he himself wants all the spoils for selling to the U.S. and attracting business here (like Rio Tinto Alcan) with cheap rate, while starting to make the workers and poor pay through higher residential rates.
Yet when it comes to Darrell Dexter having an NDP label on his jersey, some people here go into defensive mode - this thief must be better than the others. Nova Scotia must have a just cause worth defending. Dexter must be right to call this a "win-win" and "game-changer" and, I don't know, what else did he say, greater than the Sermon from the Mount and the Resurrection I believe, I'll have to double-check the media reports...
Progressive people have to keep their eyes and ears wide open, and continuously consult their heads and hearts. Otherwise some day we'll elect Tony Blair, and people here will say: "But how were we supposed to know? There were no warning signs!!"
While we are into thread drift,
And considering that the thread itself was spawned by people in Quebec and Ontario torturing facts and logic to support a point,
What the hell, why not talk about what the project means to environmentalists in Nova Scotia [the same dynamic applying in Newfoundland to very similar circumstances].
What a novel idea.
It would be a gloss to simply support Lower Churchill power coming to Nova Scotia simply because it is "green". There is the major drawbacks of the long transmission lines and the fact itsel of the highly centrailized system.... even if it was not for flooding land and the aboriginal claims that still have to be settled.
Nova Scotia has the highest dependency on coal fired electricity production. We are moving substantially into wind and tidal especially... but intermittent power does not replace base load dependence. While there are other and less centralized grid-dependent routes to getting off coal fired power... bringing in big hydro solves the near term transition issue.
Our battle now is with Nova Scotia Power's covert agenda: sell a maximum amount of their share of the power in the US, while keeping all the coal plants open. [And exporting the production peaks of the wind power.] Probably concede on closing one of the smallest and oldest coal plants ...whcih even the slow as possible Harper government climate change regs will require the closing of anyway.
Yet when it comes to Darrell Dexter having an NDP label on his jersey, some people here go into defensive mode - this thief must be better than the others. Nova Scotia must have a just cause worth defending. Dexter must be right to call this a "win-win" and "game-changer" and, I don't know, what else did he say, greater than the Sermon from the Mount and the Resurrection...
Defending the NDP label is your attribution of the reasons. And I'm not in defensive mode: I'm calling bullshit for what it is.
A loan guarantee would never be in the budget.
Yes that is true and it is also very very wrong. The City of Vancouver never had to cost the loan guarantee for the Olympic village or include it in their budget. The idea of P3's is itself a very dangerous concept with all such deals in the final analysis being taxpayer guaranteed. If there is cream to skim the corporate partners will be around if not they seem to be very adept at escaping and leaving the losses to the public purse.
Nobody said the loan guarantee is nothing, nor that it does not have potential costs.
What was argued here is that NL and NS are getting money that Quebec never got.
That said, a loan guarantee for a hydro development project is not remotely in the same category as for an Olympic Village. The former is extremely unlikely to come back on the federal government.
I only saw the implications for Newfoundland power consumption and production in passing, but I believe landing Lower Churchill power on the island will close the large coal plant. [in Bonavista?]
Newfoundland is too small to have supported the capital costs of even a short undersea cable from Labrador to get the existing Churchill Falls power over.
The same is true for the cable on to Nova Scotia- exporting power to the US is what pays for Nova Scotia's access.
The capacity of the undersea cables can be expanded for a fraction of the first cables costs. Muskrat Falls is the first step in Lower Churchill. I've never heard about this, but it stands to reason that cable will also give Newfoundland an option should Quebec continue to refuse to re-negotiate that 40 year old robbery of the benefits of Churchill Falls power.
Defending the NDP label is your attribution of the reasons. And I'm not in defensive mode: I'm calling bullshit for what it is.
Then how about "defending" the corporate thieves of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland against the corporate thieves of Québec? You think it's worthy to take sides in such disputes? And you point to the fact that this thread was started by babblers from Québec and Ontario.
Heartless Harper outwits Dimwit Dexter, and left-wing people are supposed to divide up and fight each other:
Me against You.
Quebeckers against Nova Scotians.
People who think Joey Smallwood got screwed by Eric Kierans 40 years ago, and people who are happy that he did.
Our battle is against Harper, Dexter, Charest, and the other slaves of corporate interests who want nothing better than for the victims to blame each other. You can gird up for that internecine battle if you like, Ken, but you'll never find me there.
And considering that the thread itself was spawned by people in Quebec and Ontario torturing facts and logic to support a point
Yeah Ken, I can't let this unworthy remark go without reminding you (before you hit "Post comment" a few more times) what was said in the very first post in this thread - and which you would do well to reflect on and ponder on before you start creating non-existent fights between people of different provinces:
Of course, Dexter is only Asshole #2.
Asshole #1 was Premier Jean Charest, who immediately blasted Harper for promising money to someone other than Jean Charest.
Now - here's a challenge - are you capable of exhibiting as much venom for the crimes of Dexter as you are for the crimes of Charest?
You are still torturing logic Unionist.
It is me against you because you made the choice to torture logic and facts to support your point. Not a problem with your point. [About the evils of partisan politics.] It is what you will lay waste to in making the point [again].
I'm not defending any corporate interests. And Darell and I parted ways years ago. I'm working my damndest to fight what this government does, and press the altrnative they refuse.
Dexter only ends up looking better in relation to your dimwitted flogging of things you know nothing about. Stop being a dimwit, and Dexter will stop getting a standard he can look good against.
That said, a loan guarantee for a hydro development project is not remotely in the same category as for an Olympic Village. The former is extremely unlikely to come back on the federal government.
I love your faith and hope in the wonders of P3's. You are right that as long as the power flows south nothing will likely happen. As long as we hew and draw our colonial masters have always loved us.
It would be nice if people stopped reading in things. You have no reason to impute even a limited faith on my part in P3's [which by the way this only has some similarities to- it is not a P3].
I'm making limited points to correct sweeping statements people have put out there. If people were just making criticisms of P3, I wouldnt be concerned.
"As long as we hew and draw our colonial masters have always loved us." by the way is a truism that has no particular relevance here.
No exports out of province, no massive Quebec Hydro projects, and all the benefits in that.
No exports out of province and the scale of economy is not large enough to bring power from Labrador across the strait to Newfoundland.
No exports beyond Nova Scotia and the scale of economy to bring the hydro power to NS is not there, nor therefore to Newfoundland either, and no project.
I don't trust this shit. You have yet to see and never will see the fine print on the contracts unless something goes wrong and the taxpayer gets sent the bill. I have no blind faith in the corporate lawyers drafting those kinds of contracts to protect the public interest. History shows time after time that corporate lawyers only know how to protect corporate interests. But I understand that faith is something you either have or don't have. You have the faith and I don't.
I dont go on faith either.
But neither do I wait for absolutes. You dont either. You just pick some things where you think you can or should take an absloutist stand.
But thanks for the lesson in corporate lawyers and corporate interests. I hadn't noticed they do that.
Ya Joey Smallwood got taken to the cleaners. I think they thought family allowance cheques were coming out of Joey Machiavelli's own pocket. And he wasn't about to set the record straight for them either.
But that Darrell Dexter must be a crook among a long list of crooks and liars and crooked liars who ran that province into the ground decades before Darrell arrived at the scene of the crime.
This thread about age-old dirty old line party politicking has suddenly become more interesting than wet kleenex.
Just in: CBC reports Ignatieff will back $6.2billion loan for the Lower Churchill.
Just in: CBC reports Ignatieff will back $6.2billion loan for the Lower Churchill.
Just in: A Liberal Lie.
What Ignatieff really backed was to study it AND TO TRY AND TAKE THE POWER THROUGH QUEBEC. Anyone who knows anything about this project knows that NL has been trying to take it through Quebec for the last 20 years and the deal with NS has been 5 years in the making. What Ignatieff is really promising is to kill this project leaving NS and NL high and dry. Never mind the jobs that go with it or strong regional cooperation because Liberals need votes in Quebec. Boom Boom I am sadden at how much you dislike my province to act like Ignatieff promised anything of the sort.
According the globe and mail the Liberal said today and I quote:
"It is not just a matter of NFLD.......the federal government needs to sit down with Quebec.....we need to wheel this power through Quebec."
So what he was saying was "Screw NS".
Dexter only ends up looking better in relation to your dimwitted flogging of things you know nothing about.
Aw, Ken, back in 2007 you told me I knew nothing about Kyoto and the Clean Air Act, and that Layton had some master plan up his sleeve... before he got hoodwinked by Harper yet again.
And now, you think I need to be an expert in the history of natural resource thievery to be able to draw simple conclusions when a Premier swoons publicly after a phone conversation with the Prime Minister in the thick of an election campaign? An NDP premier, giving credit to Stephen Harper for having improved the economy and lives of Nova Scotians for "generations" (his estimate, not mine)?
Pandering takes two - the benefactor and the beneficiary. It's disgusting both ways.
So what he was saying was "Screw NS".
He may be saying it. Dexter and Harper are doing it. Maybe the three of them should go into business together.
By the way, what's Layton saying about it that's different from Harper and Ignatieff? Or has he said anything yet?
Dexter! Harper! Nova Scotia! And Layton, too!! Canada!
They're all loosely affiliated, and so that makes it a conspiracy to undermine free market kapitalism!
Well, it just seems that whenever a NDP/Conservative backslapping session occurs, as they do with some frequency these days, instead of unanimous condemnation as we should be hearing, we're left to contend with this sort of effect:
I just got out of bed (I overslept) and am about to have my first coffee of the day - saw all these posts since last night and thought "it must be April 1st all over again".
You knew this was coming, right?
McGuinty demands 'equal treatment' from Ottawa
excerpt:
Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has waded into the federal election campaign after demanding that Ottawa subsidize the province's massive electricity infrastructure upgrade.
McGuinty's comments come after the Conservatives promised last week to guarantee a $4.2-billion dollar loan for the massive Lower Churchill hydroelectric project in Labrador.
excerpt:
McGuinty's comments come three days after Quebec Premier Jean Charest slammed the Conservatives for the pledge, which he considers electioneering.
excerpt:
He said Ottawa has been pretty good at supporting the oil and gas sector in western Canada too, so he wants to see Ontario get its fair share.
(this post has been CAPTCHA'd)
It is the same puffery as Quebec's:
Federal loan guarantees would not do Ontario a damn bit of good in making wish list energy projects happen.
The impossible that he is fishing for is actual operating subsides.
I think I get it now. Nova Scotia is the most in need of loan guarantees for hydro development, because it doesn't actually produce hydoelectricity now and doesn't intend to in the future. I wish someone had explained that from the get-go. It's a typical Canadian project.
Oy Canada!
Cant tell if you are making a cute point I dont get.
But leaving that aside.... yes, Nova Scotia has virtually no chance to develop hydro than the minimum we have. That said, like every province, we have plenty of potential nenewable energy.
'Plugging in big hydro' is a transitionary step. Because it will take decades to shift to renewables that are more localy and intermittently produced and consumed. Blutly: if we waited for that, we have no chance with sufficiently mitigating climate change. First and most urgent step: get the centralized system we are dependent on wened as much as possible from carbon.
Most energy projects have operating cost issues and capital rasing issues. If the projects are weak by market logic on operating costs, then they need out and out 'subsidies' of some kind. They dont even make it to the 'base' or raising capital issues until that first hurdle is cleared.
Projects needing operating subsidiess would include for example promoting wind and [very small scale] solar production of electricity, or the massive transmission system upgrades that Ontario needs and McGuinty is obliquely referring too.
This joint Nova Scotia and Newfoundland project does not have those operating cost issues. It is comparable to Hydro Quebec's projects. But NS and NL do not have the deep pockets that go with Hydro Quebec, so raising the capital is an issue no matter how good the operating costs are. Hence the need for a loan guarantee.
Well, it just seems that whenever a NDP/Conservative backslapping session occurs, as they do with some frequency these days, instead of unanimous condemnation as we should be hearing, we're left to contend with this sort of effect:
I'm curious: isn't Newfoundland&Labrador close to debt-free status because of offshore oil income? I don't know - hence my asking.
I believe you're referring to the deficit, which they hadn't managed to reign in either for FY 2010/2011 with a projection of 194 million. They have a debt of approximately 9 billion.
I dont know if they are that far- to debt free. But producing surpluses is what matters, and they are there.
But that still doesnt give them the kind of cachet that Hydro Quebec has in global money markets.
I believe you're referring to the deficit, which they hadn't managed to reign in either for FY 2010/2011 with a projection of 194 million. They have a debt of approximately 9 billion.
Wow - I thought that debt had been retired.
Thanks for setting me straight.
I missed this gem
Aw, Ken, back in 2007 you told me I knew nothing about Kyoto and the Clean Air Act, and that Layton had some master plan up his sleeve... before he got hoodwinked by Harper yet again.
And now, you think I need to be an expert in the history of natural resource thievery to be able to draw simple conclusions when a Premier swoons publicly after a phone conversation with the Prime Minister in the thick of an election campaign? An NDP premier, giving credit to Stephen Harper for having improved the economy and lives of Nova Scotians for "generations" (his estimate, not mine)?
Aw, you poor boy... reduced to stirring crocks to support your attacks.
Sticking to the current one: the discussion I engendered about getting big hydro into Atlantic Canada, and why environmentalists want it, was defintely thread drift- just in case someone was interested on the actual issues. And I called it thread drift when I started it.
As far as what Dexter did or didnt do... that's a question where we can all look at the evidence. And I made my counter-argument on that basis.
That Dexter claims benefits of a govt supported project for generations and it being a game changer... gee, thats unique. For the public optics of, as SJ put it, doing the obligatory act of kissing the ring of power... big deal.
Dexter didnt appear with Harper or anything like that. And you've pointed to no evidence anywhere that anyone took note of Harper doing that. I mean, thats where the damage would be, if it happened. And I think its fair to expect you to find some evidence somewehere that some people other than babblers in other parts of the country saw this 'enthusiasm' for Harper.
Poor Jean Charest and his billionaire friends. They're always getting crapped on by the NSNDP and Harper alike. There is no justice.
Are you kidding? It's far worse than I portrayed. Dexter issued a personal release from the Premier's office to celebrate Harper's blessing.
In case the idiot media don't get that the purpose is to drool over Harper, there's even a section entitled "FOR BROADCAST USE". The first paragraph reads like this (I've added the emphasis so that you too can get my meaning and Dexter's):
How can this be? Harper made an election promise - it wasn't a prime ministerial act. Then, in case we're all really really stupid, the "FOR BROADCAST USE" contains this neat little piece of blackmail:
"Aren't I smart?" says Darrell. "I've now leveraged Harper's promise to ensure that the others can promise no less!"
Yes, he's smart all right, no one could possibly see through his little game.
And Ken, your big argument is that "how come no one noticed this except some babblers in other parts of the country"? Simple. Mr. Dexter doesn't have a lot of credibility. No one really gives a crap what he says. That's why he can't rely on just Harper to get the message out. He has to shout it out through his own release. And even then no one cares. This is supposed to be some refutation of his asininity?
Unionist, youère smart enough not to conflate Mr. Dexter with Mr. Layton, noÉ I think so, but thoguht Ièd ask, it seems youère doing so.
Apologies for the grammer, its messed.
All NDP premiers are evil and can't be trusted. It's a pre-conceived notion for some people believe it or not. They aren't sure why they think the things they do. Sometimes they mention fear of the colour orange, or mustaches, or equality in general as reasons to fear the NDP. The ultimate paranoia for some Canadians is when they have night sweats over a federal government that has no record in power. They sometimes create phobias which are not possible.
Unionist, youère smart enough not to conflate Mr. Dexter with Mr. Layton, noÉ I think so, but thoguht Ièd ask, it seems youère doing so.
I'm not making any accusation against Mr. Layton here at all. I honestly don't know his position on the issue. That's why I asked upthread:
No one has responded yet. Dexter said all the party leaders support the project - and I have absolutely no problem with that (only Jean Charest and the PQ and maybe the BQ do... - but I don't take sides in disputes between thieves over spoils). My only issue is with Dexter trying to help Harper win the election. That's why I opened this thread. Dexter should be condemned by all Canadians for putting his own thieving interests against the interests of the people.
Dexter isnt trying to help Harper win an election.
Unionist is saying he is.
And this load of crap does not even flyre- stated as: 'whatever his intentions, what Dexter is doing helps Harper win the election'.
And post#88 is re-warmed crap from one end to the other. 100% desperate stretches.
Dexter isnt trying to help Harper win an election.
That's the tragedy. If that were actually his intent, I could understand his drooling, even if I disagreed. I think he's just dimwitted.
And this load of crap does not even flyre- stated as: 'whatever his intentions, what Dexter is doing helps Harper win the election'.
I agree, Ken. This will not help Harper win - because, as I said, Dexter has no credibility, and everyone who cares or notices will see this for a simple opportunistic gesture. The reason I opened this thread was plainly and simply to alert people to how far down the road to perdition a politician can go when no one challenges him.
Well of course it is. You want me to serve crap that has gone cold? I'll leave that to others.
If you were in as bad physical shape as I, you'd be desperately doing a lot more than stretching exercises.
I posted this link somewhere earlier, it's the only reference to Layton and the Lower Churchill I've seen:
excerpt:
NDP leader Jack Layton has already said he approves of Harper's move and Duceppe said he expects Liberal Michael Ignatieff to do the same, saying only the Bloc represents Quebec's interests in Ottawa.
Link:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Harper+hydro+plan+attack+Duceppe+say...
And this load of crap does not even fly re-stated as: 'whatever his intentions, what Dexter is doing helps Harper win the election'.
I agree, Ken. This will not help Harper win - because, as I said, Dexter has no credibility, and everyone who cares or notices will see this for a simple opportunistic gesture. The reason I opened this thread was plainly and simply to alert people to how far down the road to perdition a politician can go when no one challenges him.
You re-state. Then I re-state:
There was no 'opportunistic gesture'. There was simply the pro forma obligatory kiss of the ring of power. It was not noticed simply because no one who it is addressed to pays attention to that sort of thing. Politican says this is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and thanks the bigger cheese politician for his role- WOW!
There was no 'opportunistic gesture'. There was simply the pro forma obligatory kiss of the ring of power. It was not noticed simply because no one who it is addressed to pays attention to that sort of thing. Politican says this is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and thanks the bigger cheese politician for his role- WOW!
Smart politicians do it when the GOVERNMENT announces the actual program not when the enemy (the NDP is by constitution the sum of its provincial parts) announces a CAMPAIGN PROMISE.
Sure doesn't look like the NS NDP is doing the other provincial sections any good. While they are trying to win seats in a federal election it appears from the outside Dexter is trying to use the federal election to further his own political agenda.
I have believed for a long time that the NDP structure that requires a federal NDP member to belong to a provincial party was anti-democratic. The NS NDP is also the federal party in NS. Someone should send Dexter a memo that his party is fighting for seats in ridings all across the country where the Conservatives are the party to beat.
Thanks, NS, that's exactly the point I was trying to make in opening this thread.
And for those above who preach, or maybe even believe, that provincial parties can be neutral or favourable to Harper during an election campaign, please watch Québec solidaire's Françoise David explain why the federal election, and the need to defeat Harper, is a burning issue for all Quebeckers - from QS's 6th national congress two weekends ago.
ETA: I guess I need to say, for those who may not know, that QS is a "provincial" party that has no federal counterpart.
NS- you are doing the same stretching of what you THINK you see.
As if any of you really cared beyond a point you want to make [stretch], here is the poltics of this.
It is NOT just a campaign promise. And that is because of the policiking before by the NL and NS governments. With all that done, including getting the Liberals and NDP to affirm support [no more being required], all that was required to make this whole thing a "fact on the ground" was for any government to make a commitment to it. Once that is done, there is no way the Liberals or the Libs and NDP as govt would go back on it. Period.
So once the commitment is made, the deal is as good as done.
For the brownie points, and despite the displeasure in Quebec, I suspect the Cons would have end the end supported this anyway; but for sure, if there is an election they are going to frame it as an election goodie. Thats part of the game, and you dont spurn the gift because of it.
So thats the framework. Playing it into an election goodie was done in Newfoundland- because it is for the within grasp seats there Harper was willing to take a hit in Quebec. But of course, its going to be 'announced' in Nova Scotia too- albeit it didnt even get prime billing for Harper's visit.
So Harper comes for the glow, gets the pro forma kiss of the ring from Dexter [from the distance of a press release that positions the political benefits for the provincial government].
As to the argument that Dexter isn't actually helping the federal NDP campaign. That is a different, more limited, and well grounded statement. Though for waht the purpose Unionist said this thread is for- Dexter would have done the same pro forma kiss of the ring of power even if he had for example appeared prominently with Jack Layton and urged people to vote NDP.
Mind you, if he did offer, the feds would have to think about whether they wanted that strong an association. The base doesn't like this government- and I would say somewhat less than other bases have liked their NDP govt in other provinces. But it would be going too far to say the government is unpopular. Still, I can't really guess whether or not the federal NDP would want such a strong public association with Dexter. I see a toss-up on that one.
I watched Harpoon at a press conference this morning in Vaughn taking questions about the Lower Churchill, and he insists it's part of his government's strategy against climate change, and that he will support projects against climate change everywhere in Canada, including Quebec. Apparently the National Assembly unanimously condemned Harper's involvement in the lower Churchill - that was part of the questioning that Harpoon responded to. Don't have a link to the National Assembly vote yet.
Apparently the National Assembly unanimously condemned Harper's involvement in the lower Churchill - that was part of the questioning that Harpoon responded to. Don't have a link to the National Assembly vote yet.
Here was the motion:
My translation:
The list of the 117 MNAs voting in favour can be found on page 20 of the transcript:
Yesterday's proceedings
Thanks, U - you're better informed than me.
ETA: U, could you comment on this part of my post:
"...he (Harper) insists it's part of his government's strategy against climate change"
Dunno if Harper is being defensive or sincere - or both?
With Harper the safest bet is disingenuous.
Posturing. You cant say you did for political reasons, both for speficic positioning [getting a number of seats in NL], and because governments always like to be seen as bringing in megaprojects.
You can't flat out say its insincere, because it is part of a sound climate change strategy... just not one that this govt has.
ETA: U, could you comment on this part of my post:
"...he (Harper) insists it's part of his government's strategy against climate change"
Dunno if Harper is being defensive or sincere - or both?
Well, Harper's Canada won the "Fossil of the Day" award on the very first day of the Copenhagen climate change conference, and then went on to snag top honours as Colossal Fossil of the Year.
So yes, given that the Harper government's "strategy against climate change" is to lie and trick and deceive, I would agree that this action is part of that strategy.
Thanks for the comments.
Closed for length.