Trenton Base Commander Williams, Thread 2
February 12, 2010 - 12:43pm
-_-
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I would like to ask the males to think before you comment here. After all the victims are all female in case you haven'y noticed.
Interesting reaction from the folks in Trenton. Maybe, just maybe, people everywhere should become ashamed of all military uniforms.
Williams cut family ties, brother say
Meanwhile, in the town of Trenton, there was talk Thursday of soldiers being harassed and spat upon by angry townsfolk. At the aptly titled Rumours bar, a military hangout, owner and former military pilot Pierre Bouchard said he’s heard of soldiers being yelled at or spit on in public since news of Williams’ arrest. “This town survives because of the base,” said Bouchard. “I (would) hate to see people become ashamed of their uniform.”
Inquiries about unsolved homicides have been made in other cities where Williams was also stationed with the Canadian Forces, including Ontario and Manitoba.
Ottawa police are also probing unsolved cases, including the violent 2007 sexual assault of a Carleton University student.
Williams’ next court appearance is set for Feb. 18 in Belleville.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/Williams+family+ties+brother+says/2551107/story.html
Telltale signs perhaps.
Accused colonel one of Canada's top VIP pilots
Williams remembered as 'very nice, friendly,' but a stickler about protocol, rules
Col. Russell Williams is remembered as an extremely meticulous pilot -- "Mr. By the Book" -- during his years as one of Canada's top VIP pilots.
Williams' arrest for two alleged murders, forcible confinement and sexual assault, has come as a shock to those who got to know him as the pilot for Canada's state elite.
Among his official passengers on the Challenger and, later, the bigger Airbus planes, were the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh; former Liberal prime ministers Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin; and Roméo LeBlanc, the late governor general.
It is believed Williams flew to England to transport the Queen and her husband to Western Canada in 2005 for an official royal visit to mark the 100th anniversary of Alberta and Saskatchewan joining Confederation.
One former official who was frequently on flights where Williams was pilot says he was very rigid about protocols with his staff, ensuring they enforced passenger rules.
"He was very nice, very friendly, but he was definitely Mr. By the Book," said the official, who spoke about Williams on condition of anonymity.
On overseas trips for example, he would not allow the use of three seats for sleeping and ensured everyone had their shoes on for landing.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/Accused+colonel+Canada+pilots/2549238/story.html
I would like to ask the males to think before you comment here. After all the victims are all female in case you haven'y noticed.
Hummmmm?
Interesting reaction from the folks in Trenton. Maybe, just maybe, people everywhere should become ashamed of all military uniforms.
Well that is pretty stupid.
I'm African American should I be ashamed of being African American anytime someone from my ethnicity commits a horrible crime?
Meanwhile, in the town of Trenton, there was talk Thursday of soldiers being harassed and spat upon by angry townsfolk. At the aptly titled Rumours bar, a military hangout, owner and former military pilot Pierre Bouchard said he’s heard of soldiers being yelled at or spit on in public since news of Williams’ arrest.
I call bullshit. Trenton is so in your face support the troop red friday highway of heros brainwashed that it will take more than this to sway them. It sounds like the military is trying to play the victim too.
Moving to the feminism forum.
Yeah, I also find that hard to believe. When they hear it first hand from someone who saw it or experienced it, let us know. Of course, the real victims are the military, right? Jebus.
Reminds me of an excellent excerpt from this blog posting:
So, while I understood it was good for morale, I took exception to General Walter Natynczyk’s pep talk at the base that somehow made this case – even for a few seconds – about all our men and women in uniform. (Be proud! Stand tall!)
A retired senior officer claimed on the CBC that soldiers everywhere felt “victimized” by this story.
Excuse me. The only soldier victim here so far has been Cpl. Comeau, whose laughing eyes stare out of photographs and whose father, a retired military man, has questioned how Col. Williams’s behaviour could have gone undetected for so long.
Thanks for moving this to the feminism forum, Maysie.
His behaviour was ignored the same as the Catholic church systematically ignored its pedophiles. The people who knew him probably only thought he was assaulting women not murdering them so they didn't say anything against their superior and/or peer. It is all about the culture in the military like it is about the culture in the church. Good people in both organizations but the culture of the organization itself allows those in power to get away with sexually deviant crimes.
I'm not sure that's necessarily true, kropotkin. Those close to him are saying they hadn't noticed anything that would make them think he would do something like this. Being a stickler about policy and procedure doesn't necessarily mean you're a serial rapist and killer.
No it doesn't but being commander would mean others would not look closely. How many times has a priest been busted and everyone is shocked? That is why I consider it willful blindness. He's a hero right so why would others look closely at his misogyny. I don't believe for a minute he hid his true thoughts about women I believe that misogyny is the norm in the forces so it went unnoticed.
Thank you maysie....
His behaviour was ignored the same as the Catholic church systematically ignored its pedophiles. The people who knew him probably only thought he was assaulting women not murdering them so they didn't say anything against their superior and/or peer. It is all about the culture in the military like it is about the culture in the church. Good people in both organizations but the culture of the organization itself allows those in power to get away with sexually deviant crimes.
I doubt that's the case. Most of the people at the base have family - including wivees and daughters - living in the community. My cousin just transfered from Trenton a few months ago with his family. I can't imagine him turning a blind eye if he knew who was assaulting women in the community.
They never ignored the pedophile priests among them, they just sheltered them from responsibility for their actions by moving them to other locations where they could prey on others.
Lew Mackenzie, the perennial apologist, had a piece in today's Grope and Flail which made reference to the selection process for senior appointments. Left out from his analysis of course is the fact that the review is conducted by other sycophants that have managed to achieve some measure of influence within their respective military fields, and that all of them are lay people when it comes to the issue of psychological screening. For the most part the indicators that carry the most weight on internal merit boards are past job performance, performance under stress, loyalty, the ability to quickly adapt to the changing demands of the organization, and level of dedication as duly reported on annual assessments from immediate supervisors. No where does the process delve into questions surrounding inclinations towards psychopathic behaviour. Any notions of patriarchal opinions and views would have gone largely unnoticed as the norm in those circles. What some would see as troubling red flags in another organization, would appear as just another day at the office down at Fort Fumble on Colonel By Drive in Ottawa.
Well, IANAPsychiatrist, and I'm not sure how scientifically precise the term psychopath is, although I believe there is a phenomenon that we might as well call that, and it's my understanding that part of the problem with psychopaths is precisely their unpredictability. They don't give off signs, and they are often high-functioning, often charming. Presumably we won't really know until his trial, if then, but Williams could be one of those people no one would ever have thunk ... y'know?
Now, sociopaths -- they give off signals. Sociopathology as I know it is high-functioning jerkitude. There are lots of those around. They tend to be very successful.
Psychopathy and sociopathy are largely interchangeable terms. There are psychological tests and inventories to weed them out which can be pretty good. Also, it's best to understand psychopathy as a continuum. Some will be worse than others
How obvious this is in a person can depend on any number of factors, including how smart they are, how pressured, how needs driven at any given time. Also, psychopaths can probably be found in any field. Being a base commander has power, control, and the pay aint bad. Look at my field though, I am really in a position of trust vis a vis a very vulnerable population. There's not much money for me to scam were I so inclined, but if I had some sick control dominant thing going on, I could probably get some gratifying opportunities to be subtly abusive. Psychopaths can be found in all walks of life.
Williams, Bernardo were college 'pals'
All is well - the book rights have now been sold.
In the previous incarnation of this thread, there was a lot of talk seeming to draw linkage between Williams and his military training, or military culture and his alleged crimes. I thought this a bit wrong, but it was also mixed with millitary attitudes in general towards women, which is something I don't doubt at all is an issue.
But it struck me at the time that the skills a pilot needs, like compartmentalizing are also abilities a serial rapist and serial killer has to have. I think those pointing to Williams military training or background as a cause were confusing cause and correlation.
However, if we are to indulge in confusing cause and correlation, I note that Williams and Bernardo were both attending an economics course. And given the pervading philosophy in economics today-- de Sadeonomics as I have called it sometimes in the past,-- where we have clinical rationalizations to support the strong exploiting the weak, might we not be looking for correlation here?
To me, it seems much stronger a link than what the military angle is. If, as I said, we want to entertain this line of thought in the first place.
quote:
"But Bernardo's father, Ken Bernardo, told the Sun his son doesn't recall Williams by that name, or by his stepfather's last name, Sovko."
The Globe reported that he changed his name yet again before settliing on "Williams". AND he was an accomplished jazz trumpeter Now THERE we may be on to something... (The military will be expanding their psychological tests byond dependence on the Rorschach even as we discuss this.) Bet they didn't know he changed his name at all.
And check out John Bowlby and the need for infant attachment...motherly love. Bet the farm he never had that.
Reinhard Heydrich was by accounts, an expert violinist. Tenuous would best describe correlations involving hundreds of thousands of accomplished musicians with homicidal predators. Economics on the other hand, admittedly it has become more difficult to avoid certain connections at the best of times these days, what with top of the food chain examples provided by the IMF and the like. I can certainly come to terms with the frightfully valid perspective of someone affected by male violence, those whose tragic personal experiences may very well validate the belief that a readily selectable continuum of patriarchal control lies dormant within most of us, from domineering partner, to domestic abuser to planned malevolence at this level. Having witnessed and experienced much in 27 years of military exposure, the worst of it at times, this is quite distinctive altogether.
Yes, Einstein was also a skilled violinist, and the jazz trumpet skills of the teenager named Sovko were NOT intended to be anything more than a demonstraton of the extent to which the Holmesian net had been widened here.(I'll have to remember to be very explicit, not leave the bizaar open to misinterpretation).
The John Bowlby reference, however, would perhaps be helpful in understanding his early home life and later psychosis, He apparently fessed up immediately when confronted by a psychologist.
Which reminds me of the early hypothesis on causes for autism, which was a "cold" mother. And if you follow that, here we have perhaps a grand example of the subtle abuse of women. It's always thier fault.
People point to these one in a few million examples like serial killers and run with it to prove this point or that, and I think it's not helpfull to any cause.
On the point of the Canadian military and abuse of women in and around it is something that deserves full attention much removed from Williams. It's something that I think the impact of which is going to get worse in the coming years before it gets better.
The John Bowlby reference, however, would perhaps be helpful in understanding his early home life and later psychosis, He apparently fessed up immediately when confronted by a psychologist.
Would it really help you understand? Psychosis is such a glib term. I appreciate the discussion. And what exactly did this "psychologist" have him 'fess up to?
Apologies for digressing male killing of women.
quote:
"But Bernardo's father, Ken Bernardo, told the Sun his son doesn't recall Williams by that name, or by his stepfather's last name, Sovko."
The Globe reported that he changed his name yet again before settliing on "Williams" ... Bet they didn't know he changed his name at all.
During the induction process, the military does ask for a birth certificate, christening certificate, what have you. Of course, this could always be forged - for the right price.
Google up John Bowlby guys. It's about love and dependency. And I'm outa here before this becomes all Freudian and judgemental.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory
A primer.
I'm suspicious of these kinds of things. There's much emphasis on the mother raising a child, as if to say that it's her fault if the kid grows up to be a psycopath or sociopath or whatever. But, I think now we know that nature has a greater role to play in people's psychological make up than what was in style in the 50's and 60's, when it was all nurture.
Following the lives of known serial killers, it seems that there has to be a born predisposition, coupled with some odd circumstances in childhood and adolescence. It takes DNA and a village to raise a serial killer, it seems, not a bad mom.
I think part of that village effort is the blanket approval of the strong exploiting the weak, and, in context of this forum, that focus is male violence against women. I do not believe trying to undertand Williams or other rare examples really helps this along. Conclusions made and action taken on rare exceptions will not do a whole lot to prevent serial killers, and it gives a place to hide for the "ordinary" violence against women-- right out in the open.
I'm not sure that's necessarily true, kropotkin. Those close to him are saying they hadn't noticed anything that would make them think he would do something like this. Being a stickler about policy and procedure doesn't necessarily mean you're a serial rapist and killer.
I agree with Kropotkin. After moving to Tweed, when two women were assualted, police focused their attention on the guy who had been living there for 40 years as opposed to the new guy, always with a camera, who was new to area and just happened to be a high ranking man in the military. In fact, suspicion would never have fallen on him had he not stumbled into a spot check where the police treated everyone the same.
As for the background/character checks of the military, yeah, sure. No one makes it through the ranks without connections within the old boys, back slapping club. Or, how did they miss his relationship with Bernardo during the process of interviewing friends and familiy?
And what exactly did this "psychologist" have him 'fess up to?
I don't think that is publicly known.
What is publicly known is that Williams gave a "full confession" to the RCMP and led police to Jessica Lloyd's body.
Or, how did they miss his relationship with Bernardo during the process of interviewing friends and familiy?
The RCMP interview friends and family. The military doesn't.
Before Bowlby's development of attachment theory, psychologists said it was just fine to drop the kid off at the hospital and leave him/her alone for treatment. Maybe the new father, Sovko, didn't interfere with old attachments.
And so it goes.
That link with Bernardo is still tenuous. My family is very close to Tweed too. I'd appreciate more female comments. I get your point about the military but be careful.
Or, how did they miss his relationship with Bernardo during the process of interviewing friends and familiy?
The RCMP interview friends and family. The military doesn't.
Oh, well, so we have incompetence rather than negliegence. Okay. Maybe someone should tell the RCMP the people they're investigating our feminists, environmentalists, or muslim and their hearts will actually be in it.
That link with Bernardo is still tenuous. My family is very close to Tweed too. I'd appreciate more female comments. I get your point about the military but be careful.
Not according to the reports I read. And be careful about what?
I kind of meant mixed up my response with "be careful" about the Bernardo links. I was sitting on that last night from SunMedia but I'm perplexed by why other media haven't run it yet. Tabloidish feel, ya know.
i don't "write" good. Wish I had the gift of most babblers.
The Sun does two things well: crime and sports. They always get scoops on police stories because their reporters never do a negative police story and the editorials would even defend a cop who opened fire on Sunday school children.
Peter Worthington's wheelhouse no doubt.
I wouldn't wish that on anyone dear to me. Besides, it isn't all to do with presentation. It's about what you believe.
You're a sight for sore eyes Slumberjack.
As far as I can tell, the only linkages between disparate murderers who share few if any commonalities in terms of status and victims of choice such as the DC snipers, Charles Ng, Jeffrey Dahlmer, Olsen and Williams, are the respective body counts, the illusionary power of indiscriminate killing, and the total absence of the most basic regard for the lives of others. It takes little in the way of statistical revelation to subscribe to the reality that society with its constant barrage of gender based stereotypes, along with reinforcement from various professions, cultivates through internalization what already exists as a horrible defect.
You know what I always wonder about cases like this? How is it that guys like this are often married, and they treat their wives and kids just fine, never let on what they're really like, but then go out and rape and murder other women? If they're the type who have no regard for the lives of others or for anything but their own twisted urges, how is it that they somehow manage to never have that urge with the most available potential victims - the women and children in their immediate family? Clifford Olsen had a wife and son, for example.
Michelle,
That was something noted often when looking at the behavior of Nazi War criminals (like Rudolf Hoess for example)
For a guy this meticulous in his piloting and commanding, the adoption of marriage as another "front identity" does not stretch the imagination. Let's see how far back his trail goes, when marriage took place. Christie Blatchford's take on this in the Globe is going to be illuminating. Heck, she has more soldiers/cops onside than even your average Sun police-beat reporter...and must be finding it very hard to deal with because of her straight-up assumptions taken from role models. Or maybe not. Perhaps the hardened, cynical journalist self will come through and save her some grief. Her "looking glass self"(symbolic) portrait is probably as clear to her as the colonel's (was) to him. (George Herbert Meade and the looking glass self in symbolic interactionism).
You know what I always wonder about cases like this? How is it that guys like this are often married, and they treat their wives and kids just fine, never let on what they're really like, but then go out and rape and murder other women? If they're the type who have no regard for the lives of others or for anything but their own twisted urges, how is it that they somehow manage to never have that urge with the most available potential victims - the women and children in their immediate family? Clifford Olsen had a wife and son, for example.
I think that is addressed by Tommy when he discussed compartmentalizing. These guys aren't the same as abusers or men with anger management problems. They are methodical, disciplined, clinical, very careful, and probably perfectionists. They lead double-lives. Consider the discipline it requires to carefully conceal every aspect of your activities and never, ever talk about it. Most of us couldn't do that. It's also important to realize their true lives is that of the psychopathic predator. The jobs, the wives, the families are all part of the concealment. They are part of the curtain behind which no one but the victims are ever permitted.
That makes sense to me.
I think that is addressed by Tommy when he discussed compartmentalizing. These guys aren't the same as abusers or men with anger management problems. They are methodical, disciplined, clinical, very careful, and probably perfectionists. They lead double-lives. Consider the discipline it requires to carefully conceal every aspect of your activities and never, ever talk about it. Most of us couldn't do that. It's also important to realize their true lives is that of the psychopathic predator. The jobs, the wives, the families are all part of the concealment. They are part of the curtain behind which no one but the victims are ever permitted.
Well said.
This does not look good.
Another woman goes missing in Belleville
http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100213/OTT_missing_belleville_100213/20100213/?hub=OttawaHome
Oh, dear. The police have no doubt already talked to Williams about Rashotte. He was so forthcoming about Lloyd, but now he's under suicide watch. Oh, dear.
Given what we've heard about the carefully stored and catalogued collection of lingerie, you have to think there are at least a few more b&es in his past.
Isn't that the job description for a military officer? After all, he was on the fast-track to General, where such attributes are as essential to the job as basic first aid is to a paramedic.
So, I can't see how a demonstrated disregard for the lives of others, the power of indiscriminate killing, complete unaccountability for their actions, and a grandiose sense of entitlement brought on by a militarist culture, in any way disqualifies Williams/Sovko from consideration for leadership at the highest levels of the military. Our current CDS obviously has no problem with these characteristics.
From the previous thread:
Funny you should say that, PraetorianFour, since it is the DND which had him marked for just such a promotion.
His childhood may be interesting, but what I'm waiting for is the adult behaviour.
He sounds pretty obviously obsessive-compulsive. OCD people are attracted to the military, but they make poor soldiers in theatre: war is uncontrollable. They tend to fall apart when they can't keep control.
Williams never served in a theatre of war. The closest he got was this: From December 2005 to June 2006 Williams was the commanding officer at Camp Mirage, the Canadian Forces forward logistics base near Dubai. After only six months, they pulled him out. Why?
Then in July 2006 they gave him a desk job in purchasing: the Directorate of Air Requirements, where he served as project director for the Airlift Capability Projects Strategic (CC177 Globemaster III) and Tactical (CC130J Hercules J), and Fixed-Wing Search and Rescue. He started doing panty raids in 2006.
This fellow had been on the command track. Back in August 2003 they had given him a year at RMC to get his master's of defence studies. But he never got closer to combat than Dubai. Why?
He fell apart in Dubai in 2006, came back a failure, relieved his stress by going on panty raids, and someone in the Canadian Forces kept quiet, right? That's what it looks like.
His childhood may be interesting, but what I'm waiting for is the adult behaviour.
He sounds pretty obviously obsessive-compulsive. OCD people are attracted to the military, but they make poor soldiers in theatre: war is uncontrollable. They tend to fall apart when they can't keep control.
Is this something you are guessing at or did you pull this fact from somewhere? I've never heard that OCD people are attracted to the military.
6 months is the standard "tour of duty" for Canadian soldiers. Only very recently have some tours been extended to 9 months for some soldiers,those staying "inside the wire". Soldiers stationed outside the wire still have 6 month tours.
Williams was pulled out after 6 months because that's standard for everybody especially back in 05 asnd 06.
gross
At a guess, not everyone see's combat. Even someone who might be a combat pilot may never get the chance to be placed in that position. If there are only 50 positions for 500 people for certain jobs lots of people "miss the train".
If he was a fighter pilot during a period when we were not sending fighter aircraft into combat zones he could have got posted somewhere else.
Someone mentioned that he probably made mistakes or left signs and people at his work covered it up. That could very well be the case however I don't think so.
In my opinion, there can be very passive-agressive behavior on bases. Also telling a soldiers boss about infractions can seem almost like a past time. I've got to work and had my boss call me into the office to tell me that that morning someone saw me driving without my headress [hat part of my uniform] on and get out of my truck and pump gass without it. Someone saw me recognized me and managed to tell my boss before i even got to work. Walking with your hands in your pocket, chewing gum. Not having a coat zippered up. A bumper sticker on your vehicle that someone doesn't like. Some people go out of their way to put their nose in everybodies business. I'm sure that happens at your work places too.
Maybe Williams left signs and people covered up but I strongly believe he didn't leave any signs. Rumors and inter office bickering moves faster than light in the CF, ask any former member here.
I think he was just very good at hiding being a monster.
For what it's worth, I used to be a waitress at Rumours in Trenton back in the day. The first Toronto Star article quoted Major General Marc Terreau who is the father of a good friend of mine growing up; I spent many a weekend at his house on base, where I suspect this guy Williams probably lived later on -- there or one of the two houses next door. (My boyfriend after that lived in the village of Tweed.)
IMO it will be a cold day in hell when the Forces start seriously investigating the mental health of their employees. This is a big problem for folks coming home from combat. Lots of military families living with violence and abuse, and you can't ever complain or try to get help, because that will be the end of your soldier's career. That's how it used to be anyway and I haven't heard that it's too much different now.
The other thing I remember is the sense that what happens on deployment, stays on deployment. Makes me wonder about dead women outside of Canada.
ETA: Just reading the first thread now and I see that these points were made previously.
Is this something you are guessing at or did you pull this fact from somewhere? I've never heard that OCD people are attracted to the military.
I've read it before, but just recently I heard a doctor in charge of a field hospital in Kandahar discussing this on CBC radio. It made a lot of sense.
There was vague mention of an incident at Camp Mirage, no details, certainly no names, in 06. I'm trying to remember when I heard this, ages ago.
Williams listed his address in the phone book, according to white pages, as
Russ WilliamsTweed, ON K0K 3J0
(613) 478-3041
It was actually Cosy Cove Lane, along the east side of a lake there. Now, you don't have to list your address in the phone book, so why bother with a misleading one? Providing you pay your bills, you may not have to list your real name. Back inthe 60s, a friend's parents were findable only by the name of the beach they had courted on, which I thought was utterly cool. But just as people spell their surnames one letter wrong to avoid huge eventual cable bills, a tactic I'm not sure is actually effective, some do want to seem normal but change the exact street name. I'm guessing Williams skewed his phone book address when he moved to Tweed. How many years ago?
How do you change your address in the phone book?
The phone company compiles and puts your name into the book, unless you have a restricted number, or pay not to have it in there.
I don't pay extra to have an unlisted address...
Telus charges for everything, even no listings in the phone book, and will not accept arguments that it should be free, they said they have to do paper work to have it not appear so there is a charge for admin services.
....they even upped my dial up connection by 2.4kb from 24.0kb and charge me almost 3 bucks for it, calling it hgigher speed dial up, without even asking me....
Remind,
I don't know how to change an address in the phone book, but certainly when setting up a new address and phone number, it is simple to request that the address not be shown. Twenty years ago, people could look up an address in the city directory at the public library, and get a name and phone number. Now, you don't have to hike down to the library. This can be accomplished online, white pages .ca etc.
It's really handy if you've forgotten someone's full name, say in a neighbourhood you've moved away from. But the nastiness possible from this system persuaded me to list my name with no address decades ago --- and to keep my name out of the city directory. Vigilance was necessary when people came door to door collecting names for the city directory because they were paid per name, and if denied information, some asked neighbours for it. Officially this was against the rules, but people doing the canvas were often desperate for money and considered their mission more important than the rules.
Go back and read Wilf Day, he was on the right track.
"Williams never served in a theatre of war. The closest he got was this: From December 2005 to June 2006 Williams was the commanding officer at Camp Mirage, the Canadian Forces forward logistics base near Dubai. After only six months, they pulled him out. Why?" In January 06, two entries to this were very interesting perhaps concerning something that may have happened, and they have been removed: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/apps/dc/qua-tri-eng.asp?q=4&y=2005&ord=ven I commented on them, cut and pasted to thetyee:"Check out the Habtoor Grand Hotel and Spa, where DND reported spending a great whack in mid- January last year.
15-01-2006 Habtoor Grand Resort and Spa Recreational Services $350,000.00
15-01-2006 Sherzai Transportation $300,000.00
(Sherzai, a frequent recipient of DND $$, usually just listed as "Sherzai", may be the former governor of Kandahar)
( So skip the Sherzai stuff, for another time.)
I don't have a problem with troops spending time to unwind at something like the Habtoor, as I believe they now do in Cypress. I did have a problem with the Habtoor entry being removed.
The cut and paste was because I had a problem with Sherzai. Which then led to where did it go?
There don't seem to have been entries about R&R anywhere else since, so maybe DND just found some other accountant.
Given what Wilf pointed out about Williams, this is still really interesting.
I don't seem to get the format and editing process here, have tried many times to insert a space between Wilf's "why?" and my lead to the link to the DND quarterly list, from which the Habtoor Grand Hotel and Spa bill has disappeared.
The Habtoor is in Dubai, next door to Camp Mirage, and Williams was there at the time.
Six months is the standard tour length for most Canadian military occupations [pun intended]. You'll find that nearly everyone sent anywhere gets 'pulled out' after six months, and replaced in theatre with another group of troops and commanders embarking on their very own six month tours.
Col Russell Williams Pleads Guilty
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/18/col-williams-court-1018.html
Canada trained him to kill. And he did.
Managing an Asymmetric World: A Case for Preventitive War - by Russell Williams
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/williams-mastersresearchproject.pdf
"This essay argues that the threat of preventitive war, provided the legitimacy of past and similar action, can be used to shape the actions of so-called rogue regimes and others, increasing stability in an anarchical international system. With broad support, preventitive war can serve to demonstrate the international community's resolve in its dealings with pariah states..'
Military Murder Mystery or Just a Desert Mirage
http://blogs.canoe.ca/parker/general/military-murder-mystery-or-just-a-d...
"The part that catches my attention is 'six months as the Commanding Officer Theatre Support Element - Camp Mirage' (December 2005-June 2006). Camp Mirage - a Midest air base that is the key link in the military air bridge between CFB Trenton and our forces in Afghanistan. Almost everyone and everything involved in Canada's Afghanistan war effort goes through Camp Mirage, including the returning flag-draped caskets of Canadian soldiers killed in action.."
Day in Court Ends With Details of Assault
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/877044--williams-graphic-phot...
Col Russel WIlliams didn't just take thousands of pornographic pictures during the escalating fetishism of his 82 break-ins -- he videotaped the actual murder of at least one of his victims...
Ken and Sharon Jones, who live in Belleville, tucked themselves in a corner behind the cameras on the courthouse steps. The couple attends all the repatriation ceremonies in nearby Trenton for the slain Canadian Forces soldiers whose bodies are returning from Afghanistan.
They had taken pictures of Williams as a celebrated colonel when the Olympic torch came through last year.
'This has done so much damage to the image of the forces,' Sharon said sombrely. The formal process to kick Williams out of the military would begin on conviction, Gen. Walter Natynczyk, Chief of the Defence Staff for the Canadian Forces, said in a statement.."
Canadian Pilot Who Flew For the Queen Pleads Guilty to Murder
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/8071774/Ca...
"A Canadian Air Force pilot who once flew the Queen across the Atlantic has pleaded guilty to murdering two women and sexually assaulting two others..
Police are looking into unsolved crimes near his previous postings which included a stint as commanding officer of Camp Mirage, a secretive Canadian base near Dubai, in 2006."
Disastrous Week Leaves Military Vets Wondering : How Did They Get There?
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Disastrous+week+leaves+military+vets+wo...
"How could anyone so cruel, depraved and criminal be promoted to the senior ranks of the Canadian military? How could a psychopath be placed in a position of command?
'You don't become Col. Williams overnight,' retired Canadian Forces Col. Michael Drapeau said in an interview..."
Managing an Asymmetric World: A Case for Preventitive War - by Russell Williams
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/williams-mastersresearchproject.pdf
"... With broad support, preventitive war can serve to demonstrate the international community's resolve in its dealings with pariah states..'
The "international community" he is talking about is not the U.N. The U.N. has no such mandate. In fact, according to the U.N. Charter, the Geneva Conventions, the Nuremberg Principles and other international laws, "preventive/pre-emptive war/strike", etc., constitutes an illegal "War of Aggression."
NATO has such a mandate. But NATO's Charter is not a body of international law.
He also talks about international anarchy. I guess he either 'accidently' or (more likely) intentionally ignored the U.N. This is doubletalk for American or nation-state exceptionalism. Which is itself (a) case(s) of international anarchy.
Ken and Sharon Jones, who live in Belleville, tucked themselves in a corner behind the cameras on the courthouse steps. The couple attends all the repatriation ceremonies in nearby Trenton for the slain Canadian Forces soldiers whose bodies are returning from Afghanistan.
I find such people to be "ghouls."
It only adds to the nazi-esque "Cult of the Slain Soldier as Hero" started by war criminal and Canadian cultural blight, former Gen. Rick Hillier.
I was fascinated by how articulate Williams was in his preventive war thesis (link above), and how this would sound over a vid of some of the photos.
Lurid Details EMerge in Williams Case
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/10/18/1572...
"So this is what it's like to be in the presence of pure evil.
What else do you call it after what Russell Williams did to his victims while the commander of CFB Trenton and in a position of trust and care of our precious young fighting men and women?"
Col Russell Williams - Photos:
http://www.thestar.com/fpLarge/photo/877369
Why is the public being "treated" to a five day sentencing hearing when Williams will be receiving a life sentence with no eligibility for parole for 25 years? Are there any lawyers about who can explain why the sentence is not being passed quickly and expeditiously? Is this part of justice being seen to be done?
Excellent question Caissa, and I for one am sickened by the continued printing of the whacked details in news report after news report, it has gone past the point, in my view, of sharing a snippet of the psychopath's actions, to exploiting the incidences of violence against these women and girls, in order to 'titillate' the other whacks in society, who gobble that kinda reporting up.
I agree that given the fact that he has pled guilty the judge should have ordered it all sealed to shield the victims from further abuse by MSM "news pornographers."
Note the difference in the Basi Virk outcome. We don't get any details there, go figure. No titillating snippets that shows a glimpse of the deep corruption that has seeped into our provincial politics but the lives of abused women are an open book for all to consume as a saucy side dish. WTF
The Canadian media should be deeply ashamed. As should the judicial system.
Antonia Zerbisias and Elizabeth Pickett: Forced Entry
But, as Elizabeth wants you to remember, Williams did not get that lingerie by ordering from Victoria's Secrets. He got it by raping the personal and private space of 82 women and girls -- and there's nothing titllating or amusing about that.
And Sabina Becker @News of the Restless
Memo to the media: Lose your sexual fetish and report the REAL story!
As far as the major media are concerned, it appears that Russell Williams is a sexual fetishist gone off the deep end. He isn't.
He is a predator.
There are several crucial differences between the two. These are the differences:
For a fetishist, an object (or specific body part) stands in for a human being in a sexual context. For a predator, a human being becomes an object; the objectification is sexualized.
A fetishist usually doesn't steal fetish objects; s/he prefers to buy them or barter for them. Fetishists prefer to obtain the consent of the person from whom they get their things.
A predator invariably steals. Consensual activity does not interest him. Stealing, for the predator, is a form of control; it renders victims uncertain, ashamed and afraid. The predator is aroused by the notion that he has control over a victim's emotions. He appropriates what is not rightfully his, often making it his by wearing it, posing for photos in it, or mutilating it. Often, the more intimate the object--underwear, for instance--the more desirable it is as a means to scare his victims. This is why a predator's thefts should not be laughed off as a kind of solitary panty raid, but taken seriously an indicator of more devious criminality below the surface.
Glad to see other women coming forward and telling it like it is, too.
Thanks catchfire
I think part of it is deliberate in order to demonize him (not that thats diffulcult to do) so that the public in general concentrates on him as a demon serial killer, predator and NOT on anything to do with his activities, training or anything to do with being a soldier
But despite myself, I can't help fixating on the fact that WE TRAINED him to fly airplanes! We-a culpa.
Well they are not really "demonizing him" by calling him a fetishist. Though I did hear one TV report that equated him with Clifford Olsen.
But I would think you are correct about trying to minimize his military training and advancement to base Commander. Especially in light of the recent reporting about the serial rapists amongst Canada's military in Afghanistan.
Would not want the public to draw paralells after all.
He's more like bernardo. Video's and all of the actual murders/sexual assaults. Is it wrong to say that he deserves to be put to death?
reported, as this is the most violently abusive drive-by that I have ever witnessed.
This is blaming the victims, and indeed blaming all women and girls for the abusive male violence imposed upon us.
It is so sickening to be read hear in the feminist forum at rabble, that every woman and feminist in the country should be outraged.
reported, as this is the most violently abusive drive-by that I have ever witnessed.
This is blaming the victims, and indeed blaming all women and girls for the abusive male violence imposed upon us.
It is so sickening to be read hear in the feminist forum at rabble, that every woman and feminist in the country should be outraged.
Huh?
Every "woman and feminist in the country" should be outraged at snert, eh.
Ok.
Outraged at attitudes like snert's, which allow him to post something so absolutely lacking in thought and perception, at its best extreme, He was basically stating; 'what the hell, it is all the people's fault who were murdered and victimized by this man, as 'we/they trained him'.
The man is a psychopath, it is no one's fault for what he did, and snert's blaming everyone for a psychopath's behaviour with his "we-a culpa", is beyond sickening, and I am surprised that such a thing needed to be outlined.
...it is wrongful blaming, and trivializing attitudes like this which endanger women and girls.
Snert, I don't really understand your post #76. It appears to be a poorly executed joke. If it's an attempt at wit or levity, I'd remind you a) that this topic is in the feminism forum, and b) this is a very serious topic which can trigger some very serious reactions in women, victims of assualt or sexual assault, and anyone with family members who have been victimized by such attacks. Flippant attempts at humour do not go over well.
So I guess what I'm saying is the next time you want to post in a thread like this, think with your goddamned head.
Snert, I don't really understand your post #76. It appears to be a poorly executed joke. If it's an attempt at wit or levity, I'd remind you a) that this topic is in the feminism forum...
I don't have anything to say about this murderous psychopath, and hence amn't missing out on anything, but why was this thread moved to the feminist forum? Isn't this a law and order subject, not a gendered issue, unless psychopathic violence is a normal trait among males?
Killer Colonel's Victims Pleaded for Mercy
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/10/19/15745706.html
"He created his own snuff films, a sick meticulous director who, for hours, raped and tortured two terrified women, capturing all their degradation on his video camera as he snapped commands.."
Russell Williams Moved Easily Between Roles of Murderer and Colonel
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams-moved-easi...
Williams' Murder Victims Pleaded for their Lies
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/19/russell-williams-day-2.html
"An autopsy showed she suffered at least five blows to the head and Williams continued to photograph her as she struggled for breath. Comeau appeared to suffocate when Williams put duct tape over her nose. He continued to take photos of Comeau after she died. He then cleaned up the crime scene with bleach, placed her in the bed and left with her lingerie. Then Williams drove to Ottawa to attend a meeting.."
Covering Colonel Williams
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/19/enkin-williams-coverage.html
"...we cover it because there is a strong public interest (and yes, maybe some of it is prurient) as well as a real need to understand how someone in a position of such authority, a senior member of the Canadian Armed Forces could also commit these crimes.."
Col Russell Williams: Evidence Photos
http://www.globalnews.ca/sports/Russell+Williams+trial+Warning+Evidence+...
Iraq POWs
http://www.aztlan.net/torture_iraqi_pows.htm
US Abu Ghraib Guard (vid)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DmPdZjkjyY&feature=related
US Troops raped/murdered 14 yr old (vid)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgySF2yh82A&feature=related
Shidane Arone
http://connect.in.com/shidane-arone/photos-253833-1431404.html
Afghan Detainee Found Dead
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/10/18/15728556.html
"A detainee being held by troops from the NATO led force in Afghanistan was found dead in his holding cell, and an investigation is underway...The man was captured during a military operation by ISAF on Saturday and was 'found dead' the following day in his cell in Kandahar province, ISAF said in a statement. It did not give further details.."
Afghanistan: Damning Revelations
http://www.socialistvoice.ca/?p=1349
"...Sand Trap 1 concerns charges that in 2006 a member of JTF2 murdered an Afghan...The military called the murder an 'improper killing'. A similar investigation by the US military has led to charges against five soldiers who operated as a self-styled 'death squad'. Prosecutors claim that the five soldiers mutilated Afghan corpses, collected fingers and other body parts, AND POSED IN PHOTOS WITH THE BODIES..."
Russell Williams - Confession extended version vid
http://www.thestar.com/videozone/878623--williams-confession-extended-ve...
'Why is it a crime for one man to murder another, but not for a government to kill more than a million?'
Rafael Lemkin
"our bodies have become the final frontier for the final weapon at the disposal of the invader - whoever he may be - the final weapon being his dick, forced upon our bodies, forcefully penetrating us, just the same way the occupier did when he set foot in 2003.
This is a continuum on the same line..." Layla Anwar from Rape The Final Frontier
Apt connections NDPar, thank you for the links.
I was impressed by the grace and respect as Smyth questioned Williams, in the clips available. Such a far cry from a military interrogation, and the treatment of G8 and G20 protesters.
The vid I'd like to see, to be made accessible, is of when Williams was chewing gum and stonewalling, assuming his position and status and bearing would work like teflon.
Still think something awful happened in Dubai, possibly to do with the now missing (at least last time I looked) Habtoor Grand entry in the DND "proactive" "disclosure" of contracts over $10,000 cut and pasted, posted, earlier in this forum, think the date was Jan 15 06.
Colonel William's Letters to Victims and Wife
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-letters-col-williams-wr...
Here's the link to start reading Layla Anwar:
http://uncensoredarabwomanblues.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-final-frontier.html
Thanks Margot - Anwar is the best
Col WIlliams Betrayed the Military: Harper
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2010/10/21/nl-harpe...
"The Canadian Forces are the victim here..."
Williams Speaks LIVE COVERAGE:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/21/williams-coveritlive-dayfour.h...
"I stand before you,your honour, indescribably shamed..."
Only Harper can turn something so deeply grounded in violence and hatred for women into a booster-fest for the military.
And I'm watching the live tweets from the link you posted, NDPP.
I don't know which makes me more sick.
I do - Harper.
"why is it a crime to murder another, but not for a government..?" - Lemkin
Elizabeth Pickett: The horrific Williams murders were about power not personal fetishes
He is intelligent and was ambitious. He attained a high rank in a military institution that Canadians are taught to revere and not to question. He did things that many people are lucky enough not to be able to imagine. The only explanation is that he is a depraved sex pervert who acted beyond the pale in his "private" life and that -- hey! -- in fact, he can't be explained. Case closed.
Lest anyone be tempted to question this, plaster pictures of the macho man in women's undies to be carefully released by the court all across the country, engage in uninformed conjecture about the nature of fetishism, argue about where and how much and how many pictures should be published, ponder the character of his wife and sensationalize what needs no repetition or exaggeration to be sensational all on its own. Say the names Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. Remember their crimes in detail. Make everyone as sick to death of it all as possible so they will want to forget. Ensure that as few people as possible come to any understanding of the meaning of Williams's acts.
An outstanding, must-read article on the case.
Col WIlliams Betrayed the Military: Harper
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2010/10/21/nl-harpe...
"The Canadian Forces are the victim here..."
What does he [Herr Harper] think he is saying?
Put that man in jail!
"Defence Minister Peter MacKay has made clear the Forces will undertake all necessary actions to ensure that all sanctions possible and all benefits possible can be withdrawn from the former commander but this is a terrible and unique case," said Harper.
"The Canadian Forces are the victim here, as are the direct victims of these terrible events."
Nice of him to mention the actual victims. But if Williams was a podiatrist or an actuary, would the Prime Minister be defending these professions, saying, "These events don't reflect upon the profession of podiatry or the actuarial sciences as a whole."
"Our thoughts go out to the members of the Forces..." What the hell?
I'm so gobsmacked by this.
It's massively inappropriate, no? I mean, when Paul Bernardo was jailed, did the prime minister get up and say, "Our thoughts are with accountants everywhere who feel besmirched by this. And oh yeah, the French and Mahaffy families."
Can anybody articulate this more clearly?
I'm NOT agreeing with Harper here, but from the very top of this thread:
Interesting reaction from the folks in Trenton. Maybe, just maybe, people everywhere should become ashamed of all military uniforms.
Williams cut family ties, brother say
Meanwhile, in the town of Trenton, there was talk Thursday of soldiers being harassed and spat upon by angry townsfolk. At the aptly titled Rumours bar, a military hangout, owner and former military pilot Pierre Bouchard said he's heard of soldiers being yelled at or spit on in public since news of Williams' arrest. "This town survives because of the base," said Bouchard. "I (would) hate to see people become ashamed of their uniform."
To be fair, were there rumours of people spitting at accountants after Bernardo?
People seem to really want to connect this one to the military. If they didn't, Harper's comments would make no sense at all.
Militarism promotes violence and the military attracts and then trains killers. They are the universal soldiers whose decisions to kill is their own. With the news of our home town team raping and murdering in Afghanistan is it any wonder people are taking it out on the members of the same murderous gang after one of its leaders got caught doing the same thing in Canada?
I could understand a pig doing something like this; they do it every day after all. But, and this is from some FN guys who are in the Army, generally speaking they follow the laws. Generally. Some will drink too much and get into fights off the base, and then there's the shit that happens in afghanistan. But, and this is a qualified but, you don't normally have Army people abusing their authority on homeless FNs in the big city or on the rez. And again this is a qualified, but the guys I know say that for them in the Army things are way better than they'd ever experience living in Vancouver or Winnipeg (especially). Respect, because they earn it and it's returned in the Army. Not always, there are always some assholes, but mostly.
See, that's pretty much what my comment at #76 was aimed at. Yes, he was in the military. But we trained him to fly a plane, and later, shine a seat with his ass. He never saw combat.
It's not like we created Rambo and then he turned on us.
I actually tried to google for other serial killers in the military. You'd think, if any kind of military training whatsoever is really desensitizing men and women to become remorseless murdering machines, I'd have found some, yes? Surely there's more meaningful things to look at in this case than a specious link to the military, for the purpose of hay-making?
Perhaps Williams's career in the military had no bearing on his murderous sexual predation. But it seems needful to ask the question in the way that it is not regarding accountancy. For example, accounting doesn't ask you to kill people, or think it's okay to kill people, or use weapons with the sole purpose of killing. The military, obviously, does. Moreover, the fact that this happened in and around Trenton--whose entire community is invested in a bond of trust between their municipality and an army base--is extremely relevant. It has forced a town to reevaluate their relationship with its constitutive industry, essentially. It's natural to ask what was it about this community symbiotic with a military base which allowed so many shocking and excessive crimes to take place. Both of these things don't apply to Bernardo.
Lastly, I don't think you need to look very hard to find serial killers in the military, Canadian or elsewhere. The only unique thing about Williams is not that he killed or violated, but that he did it here in Canada.
I think you find it very hard to find serial killers in the military, at least ours. Serial killers are well, serial and have to keep killing to satisfy their need whatever it is, for killing. Our military in general, doesnt offer the opportunities necessary to keep killing. When we leave afghanistan, it drops to zero. And for the vast majority of soldiers, they would not come into contact with anyoen civilian enough to be able to relaibly plan and kill them.
At least, in a 'war zone'/ At a home base, well then they are like Snert's accounts and have their whole area as a potential victim, like anyone else.
Russell Williams: The Role Model and Monster
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2811035
"Soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen are trained to be good followers of good leaders. And he was a very good leader - the person we know at the time. And I challenge anyone to say differently. He was the best wing commander I have ever seen..
Get this: best leader you've ever been around. Someone you look up to. Someone you respect. Someone you admire...All of a sudden turns into a monster? What the heck? What does that say about me? What does that say about anybody who liked the guy?"
PR in Canada: Forget About Selling Sex This Holiday Season - Col Russell Williams Creep Factor a Huge Turn-Off
http://www.princanada.com/forget-about-selling-sex-this-holiday-season-c...
"Sex is not a sexy topic these days. After the recent flood of grisly Williams lingerie mentions and photos in the news, I predict that womens' underwear will not be at the top of anyone's 2010 Christmas list.."
Okay, the memory hole sometimes seems too stunning. Off the top of my head (and I'll verify if I'm right after posting):
- Texas sniper
- Washington sniper
- Timothy McVeigh
edited to confirm:
edited to add:
So you are saying vastly outnumbered by other serial killers? Though I would say three and maybe all of your examples are good examples of PTSD not being treated.
Studies showing the typical points of a serial killer do not show a military component like Green river killer, bundy, wournos, etc
I'm responding to this willful memory hole:
I actually tried to google for other serial killers in the military. You'd think, if any kind of military training whatsoever is really desensitizing men and women to become remorseless murdering machines, I'd have found some, yes?
I named several just off the top of my head. Fairly well known cases.
Just now, I googled soldier serial killer: About 1,100,000 results (0.15 seconds)
Edited to add: And I just checked into another one that was at the back of my mind as a possible candidate - The Boston Strangler. Yup. "At 17 he joined the army and was stationed in Germany, where he met his wife, a German girl whom he brought back with him to the US. In 1955 while posted at Fort Dix, New Jersey he was charged with molesting a 9 year old girl. No charges were pressed and he was honourably discharged in 1956."
Closing for length. Please continue here.