The Freeland-Chomiak Connection: "It takes a village to raise a Nazi"

61 posts / 0 new
Last post
Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture
The Freeland-Chomiak Connection: "It takes a village to raise a Nazi"

This is not just about one Nazi skeleton in Chrystia Freeland's closet, i.e., her maternal grandfather, Michael Chomiak.  This 25,000-word web resource, with 150 photos/graphics and 200 footnotes, reveals details about her own personal and work-related connections to fascist-linked groups and publications going back to 1986 when she was 18.  Also exposed here are Nazi skeletons still being hidden in the closets of Canada's ultranationalist Ukrainian community and the Liberal government.
coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/C-F1.htm

Minister Chrystia Freeland's Grandfather, Michael Chomiak,
the Nazi's Top Ukrainian Propagandist:
Fake News, Mighty Wurlitzers, Historical Amnesia and the Elephant (or Bear) in the Room

"It takes a village to raise a Nazi"   (old African proverb, slightly modified)

Click on this image to access COAT's report on Didogate

By Richard Sanders, editor, Press for Conversion! magazine of the Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade


In the spirit of truth and reconciliation, this investigative report explores the propaganda careers of both Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland and her Ukrainian grandfather (dido), Michael Chomiak, the chief editor of two Nazi newspapers.

This 24-part online exposé reveals a wealth of new details about Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland's maternal grandfather, Michael Chomiak, and his WWII career as Hitler's leading Ukrainian-language news propagandist throughout Greater Germany and Nazi-allied/occupied Europe.

But besides revealing many aspects of her maternal grandfather's support for the German war effort, this research exposes shocking new information about Chrystia Freeland's own career as a propagandist.  To decide whether Freeland is suitable as a Foreign Affairs minister, Canadians should explore this research which documents her longstanding ties to extremely Russophobic organisations that are deeply rooted in the Ukrainian fascist tradition which predates WWII. Canadians should also be aware that during the early years of her journalistic career Freeland wrote for ultranationalist Ukrainian publications linked not only to her grandfather and other fascist collaborators, but to the CIA's mighty Wurlitzer propaganda machine.

For example, in 1986 at age 18, Freeland received a Canadian government-funded job writing articles for The Encyclopedia of Ukraine. This project was the postwar brainchild of her grandfather's WWII boss, Volodymyr Kubijovich.  Kubijovich headed the top Ukrainian collaborationist network established and funded by Nazi's military intelligence agency, the Abwehr.  Another publication, for which Freeland worked in the late 1980s, The Ukrainian News, had been edited by her grandfather (1981-1982).  A third was the US-based Ukrainian Weekly, which has used thousands of items from Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, the best-known propaganda creature of the CIA.  It featured Freeland's work on the same page as an ad for a book honouring the Nazi's Waffen SS Galicia Division as a heroic Ukrainian force fighting Germany's noble war against Soviet communism.

But besides showing that Freeland's ultranationalist-advocacy journalism often turned from the same page as that of her Nazi-propagandist grandfather, this report exposes a host of fascist skeletons still being hidden from public view in the large, interconnected wardrobes of Canada's postwar Ukrainian émigré community and the Government of Canada.

While past Liberal governments turned away Jewish refugees trying to escape Nazism, and even interned 2,000 such refugees in Canadian POW camps during much of WWII, the Liberals eagerly brought thousands of former soldiers of the Nazi's Waffen SS Galician division and other Ukrainian veterans of fascist military formations, to live in Canada right after the war. These fascist collaborators are still revered as heroes by many ultranationalist Ukrainian Canadians, who Freeland counts among her closest friends and supporters, because they fought valiantly against Canada's WWII ally, the Soviet Union.

In this context, Minister Freeland's Nazi heritage is not surprising. In fact, it is just the tip of a much larger scandal that is hiding just beneath the surface of Canada's polite society. The ultranationalist Ukrainian-Canadian community, of which Freeland is the most high-profile symbol and spokesperson, suffers from a serious case of historical amnesia. This pathological social condition prevents the afflicted from being able to acknowledge the truth, let alone reconcile for the well-documented complicity of Ukrainian fascists in the genocidal mass murder of Jews, Poles and Soviets.

Also explored here is the curious matter of Freeland's fixation on exaggerating statistics about what she called the Kremlin leaders' "fiendishly complicated" "Faustian bargain" with a "pact" of "mostly Jewish" bankers.  In various articles, books, interviews and speeches she has repeated the false claim that this cabal of "mostly Jewish" oligarchs controlled about half of Russia's economy.  Her much-repeated hyperbole, using tropes of a "Frankenstein's monster" and the "new virtual nation of mammon" (the supposed Jewish God of money), is eerily reminiscent of Hitler's Big Lie about a diabolical Jewish-Muscovite beast ruling from the Kremlin.  This Nazi bogeyman was a conflation of the two common enemies (Jews and communists) shared by both the Third Reich and its close Ukrainian allies. Their antiSemitic Russophobia was ably disseminated through the Nazi's fearmongering propaganda machine, that mighty news Wurlitzer, in which Freeland's maternal grandfather deftly operated.

In keeping with the painful process of Truth and Reconciliation, which our government claims to support, this online report offers Canadians a window into many unpleasant parts of our history.  While some Ukrainian-Canadians directly aided and abetted the genocides of WWII, others continue to turn a blind eye to this history by using myths, fake news and other false narratives to deny, obfuscate, rationalise and cover up the shameful heritage of their forebears, and the ultranationalist organisations they empowered in Canada.

Canadians have a right to know about these long-hidden skeletons that continue to be redacted from our mainstream national memory.  This report uses the Freeland-Chomiak affair as an opportunity to uncover many facts about much broader social scandals that have effectively been whitewashed from Canada's official history.

After initially denying so-called "allegations" about her maternal grandfather, the next tactic used by Freeland and her supporters (from government, the media and her Ukrainian community) was to blame the Russians. Their reaction, that revelations about Michael Chomiak's role as a Nazi collaborator were a case of Moscow's insidious meddling in Canadian politics, is the height of irony. This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Freeland herself has been very actively meddling in Ukrainian political affairs since at least 1989.  That year, at age 21, when she was an exchange student in Ukraine, Freeland was so involved in trying to influence their internal politics that a Ukrainian newspaper openly denounced her as an "enemy of the Soviet state." The Soviet government even lodged an official complaint against Freeland with the Canadian embassy in Moscow, saying: "Your national is a well-known troublemaker and you should keep better control over your citizens."

Freeland was one of only two foreigners who gave speeches at the first convention of Rukh, the Ukrainian independence movement that soon succeeded in separating Ukraine from the Soviet Union. The Canadian government, the mainstream media, ultranationalist Ukrainians and her family all rallied around to support Freeland's meddling in Ukrainian politics. That was almost 30 years ago, and they have all been at it ever since.

Freeland's interference in Ukrainian politics was in sync with the Cold War policies of Canada, the US and NATO. Soon after WWII, the CIA identified the "nationalities issue" as a key wedge for splitting apart our wartime ally and Cold War enemy, the USSR. The corporate media, NATO governments, ultranationalist Ukrainian émigrés all happily joined this Cold War struggle.

Michael Chomiak would have been extremely proud of his granddaughter's meddling not only because she helped build an independent Ukraine, but also because its independence helped destroy the USSR. This, of course, had been the Nazi's main goal in WWII. Although Germany's massive invasion of the USSR did lead to the annihilation of 25 to 30 million Soviet citizens, the Nazis were eventually turned back by the Red Army and were defeated.

Chomiak would have been just as proud of Freeland's journalistic and political career, as she is of his lifelong commitment to the Ukrainian cause which remains her central driving force.

From an early age, Freeland's strident way with words and the impassioned chutzpah of her Russophobia, helped make her a precocious darling not only of ultranationalist Ukrainians and the Canadian government, but also the mainstream business-oriented media. The extreme confidence which she exudes -- especially when voicing her vehement opposition to Kremlin leaders, whether pre- or post-communist -- has made Freeland a great asset to these three powerful social forces. However, Canadians must ask whether she deserves their confidence to make objective policy decisions that are not biased by her particular cultural programming.

The Role of Propagandists in Institutionalised Confidence Schemes

This investigation of the propaganda careers of Michael Chomiak and Chrystia Freeland has yielded some theoretical insights which follow from previous work on "Captive Canada." Victims of the Stockholm Syndrome are hostages who begin to identify with their captors and believe their narratives. Far more insidious is the fact that members of huge social groups are subjected to a bombardment of ubiquitous cultural programming from birth, not only by their families, but by all manner of organisations, institutions and the media. Therefore, on a mass level, millions of people may be held hostage by culturally-imposed identities and belief systems that are all but impossible to escape. But these hostages do not even realise that they are being held captive. What's worse, they may be so convinced of their supposed freedom, that they try to convert others to the very beliefs which have captivated them.

If held captive by ethnocentric and xenophobic programming, social hostages inevitably become entranced by a narcissism for their group -- whether ethnic, national, political, economic, religious, racial or some combination thereof. Once enslaved by such supremacist identities, ordinary well-meaning people easily turn a blind eye to the rights and truths of others. Some may even take part in genocide, thinking they are on the side of the angels. Others may spend their lives crafting justifications and cover-ups for past and future crimes, all in the name of what they perceive to be the struggle of good over evil.

This latter group, the propagandists, are characterised not only by their communication skills, but by their absolute confidence in the myths and narratives that bind their social group together. The institutionalisation of confidence schemes has evolved over millennia to perpetuate the survival of cultural bodies. But while beneficial to the longevity of a specific culture, the fanatical overconfidence of propagandists in their own particular social group is detrimental to others within a diverse multicultural environment.  For example, the social narcissism perpetuated by ultranationalist propagandists can be as destructive as the spread of an invasive biological species and can cause the genocide or extinction of other cultural species. 

But unlike traditional confidence artists who know that they are part of a petty criminal enterprise, cultural propagandists may be unwitting hostages who are unable to see the shackles that compartmentalise them within a huge institutionalised racket that thrives on war and corporate exploitation. This blindness makes propagandists more convincing and better able to beguile and entrap others in the criminality of an imperialist culture that has become normalised.

Canadians need to be more wary of fearmongering narratives spread by government and media propagandists captivated by the hubris of their own myths. We need to become more aware of blindspots in our history so that we are not led to repeat the tragic errors of our past.


Click below to access any part of this online resource:

1 - Introduction

2 - The Liberal Government's Warm Embrace of Ukraine's Nazi Collaborators

3 - Historical Amnesia and the Blinding Effects of Propaganda

4 - The Nazis as Victims?  Sure, just Blame the Russians!

5 - Canada needs Truth and Reconciliation,
     Not Denials and Obfuscation

6 - Historical Denial among Canada's  ultranationalist Ukrainians

7 - Michael Chomiak, the Ukrainian Central Committee  and its Nazi Newspapers

8 - Aryanisation and the "Mighty Wurlitzer"

9 - The Ukrainian Canadian Congress and its Fascist Roots

10 - Getting them Early: Building the Nationalist Cause among Children and Youth

11 - The Freeland-Chomiak Parallels in Advocacy Journalism

12 - Was Freeland an "Accidental Journalist," or Groomed for the Job?

13 - In 1989, Freeland was Declared an "Enemy of the Soviet State"

14 - A Chomiak-Freeland Fixation on Jewish Oligarchs running the Kremlin

15 - Freeland's Kremlin-Oligarch Theory goes Global with Jewish Plutarchetype

16 - Institutionalised Confidence Scams: An Open Conspiracy of Oligarchs, Politicians and Journalists

17 - Escaping the War Racket starts with  Seeing the Elephant

18 - Just Following Orders?  Which Orders?

19 - Is there a Bear in the Room?  Kill it!

20 - The Collective Care and Feeding of Russophobia

21 - The Need for Truth and Reconciliation

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

You're like ikosmos, but with exhaustive footnotes.

6079_Smith_W

This makes good sense though:

Canadians need to be more wary of fearmongering narratives spread by government and media propagandists captivated by the hubris of their own myths.

Might have missed it. Maybe we should have another picture of Hitler to draw attention to that point.

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Yes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

For Babblers who don't want to bother actually reading my 25,000 word report on the fascist links of their Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, her maternal grandfather, their ultranationalist Ukrainian community and the Canadian government, then they should skim through the 21-part report and just entertain themselves by looking at the 150 photos etc. 

Not sure which are my favourites.  Perhaps the one from 1986 showing Peter Savaryn in all his regalia as chancellor of the University of Alberta.  He was proud Ukrainian Nazi SS Galicia veteran and recipient of the Order of Canada (for multiculturalism).  His picture is from the same page of a newsletter that announced that Chrystia Freeland, then 18,  had just received a Cdn govt-paid summer job writing for the Encyclopedia of Ukraine.  (Her aunt, a daughter of Michael Chomiak -- the top Ukrainian Nazi propagandist -- also landed the same job.) This sounds innocuous enough until you learn that this encyclopedia (which whitewashed the Holocaust and Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis) was the all-consuming postwar project initiated and run by Vladymyr Kubijovich, who was Freeland's grandfather's wartime boss, and president of the Ukrainian Central Committee, which the Nazi intelligence agency (the Abwehr) had created and funded as the prime quasi-governmental organisation for collaboration between the Third Reich and Ukrainians.  Chrystia's grandfather -- Chomiak -- actually moved to France (1978-1979) to work with his wartime boss Kubijovich on this same encyclopedia. 

Another good photo is the one below showing Kubijovich (Freeland's grandad's boss) on a stage Heil-Hitler saluting at a parade with a whole bunch of Nazis. (He's the bald one, front and centre, in a suit with glasses standing just to the right and slightly behind the Nazi Gov. of Galicia, Otto Wachter, who oversaw the Nazi Waffen SS Division.)  They were all gathered (in July 1943) to celebrate the formation of the Nazi's Waffen SS division.  Kubijovych told Ukrainians to join this Nazi formation in an impassioned call to arms that was printed in one of Freeland's grandfather's (Michael Chomiak's) newspapers.  These vets are now seen -- by many of Freeland's associates -- as heroes for fighting shoulder to shoulder with the Nazis against our wartime allies, the Soviet Union.  This was the Nazi military formation that Savaryn and thousands of others fought with before the Liberal govt brought them to Canada.  There are now 4 or 5 endowment funds at the Univ of Alberta named after former Waffen SS veterans who came to Canada. 

But there are so many good photos in the report, it's hard to choose a favourite.

There's also an image in my report showing an advertisement for a book that promoted the Waffen SS Galicia as brave and valiant Nazi heroes because they fought against the Soviet military.  That ad appeared on the very same page as an item by Freeland in a US-published Ukrainian propaganda newspaper that, over the decades, has run thousands of articles by that well-known postwar creature of the CIA -- Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberation from Bolshevism.

Some people will be bothered by these photos.  I know i am...  But I don't think they should be kept hidden. 

Canadians have a right to know about them.
 

6079_Smith_W

It is hardly a question of keeping anything hidden. It isn't after all. That doesn't mean we can't call it out for what it is.

I suppose if we are going to continue playing this game they are good pics. Of course, from the other side we could also post pics of bodies being exhumed from the Katyn forest, but they wouldn't be nearly so attractive, and perhaps in even worse taste than gratuitous Hitler pics.

Though there would be a slightly more direct and relevant connection, as one of the things that newspaper was able to do, despite its collaboration with the Nazis, was to report on NKVD atrocities that were happening in the Soviet zone. Just a little reminder that they didn't leave because they loved Hitler so much.

6079_Smith_W

If we're going to stick with the uniforms and salutes I suppose there is this series:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_B...

I don't think they took too many pictures at the actual meetings between the Gestapo and NKVD though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo%E2%80%93NKVD_conferences

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

You seem to commend one of Chomiak's newspapers saying "one of the things that newspaper was able to do, despite its collaboration with the Nazis, was to report on NKVD atrocities that were happening in the Soviet zone."

So you want to turn this around and turn it into something different.  Put a spin on it to make the Nazi's look good for covering so objectively the atrocities of the Soviets.  You are welcome to pursue that line...  Good luck with that one.

I have written a report here about Canada's Foreign Minister and her decades-long links to organisations and publications tied to Nazis and the CIA.  It's not just about her grandfather and his Nazi propaganda work (which btw she deliberately kept secret and yes she kept it hidden from the canadian public in all her many narratives about his WWII experience as a poor innocent victim of the horrible nasty Soviets.)

Was this information about her and her grandfather kept hidden until now?  Sure looks that way to me.  People didn't know about it.  They still don't.  99% of the details (or more) are still not being reported in the corporate media. No surprise there.  They are "covering" the story (up).

It is, as I say somewhere in my report, hidden in plain sight.  I found a lot of material that I think should be of interest to Cdns.  I am trying to allow people the opportunity to learn about it.  I don't expect the corporate media to help in this process.  I am now receiving some flack for my efforts from you and others who would rather not have this brought to light.  That is to be expected.

If you want to write a report on why you personally think her grandfather's Nazi newspapers were actually very good at exposing objective news about the Soviets then please go ahead and do so.  I promise i will read it.

You should read the sections in my report on Russophobia. 

19 - Is there a Bear in the Room?  Kill it!
20 - The Collective Care and Feeding of Russophobia

You are following right along in the same footsteps.  Why are you using my expose of our foreign minister and her Nazi propagandist grandfather to fixate on criticisms of the Soviets? 

25 - 30 million Soviet citizens died in the fight against the Nazis, including almost 9 million in the Red Army.  Imagine what the world would be like now if the Soviets hadn't successfully turned the Nazis back at Stalingrad and chased them thousands of miles back across Europe to Germany.  Would you have been happier perhaps if Hitler had killed 60 million Soviet citizens or if the Red Army hadn't trounced the Nazis?

Your use of this discussion of my report on Freeland, and her links to fascist groups and publications, as an excuse to criticise the Soviets is like using a discussion of Holocaust deniers as an opportunity to criticise the Jews.

6079_Smith_W

I am in no way trying to make the Nazis look good. What I am saying is that Ukrainians who fled the Soviet zone did so  because they were in danger. The fact that pointing out Soviet atrocities served the puposes of the Nazis does not change the fact that it was important to publicize them.

I don't need to write that article. John-Paul Himka did, and in fact I pointed it out to you a few weeks ago. You can read it this time if you want.

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/introductions/how-do-we-search-babble-note-r...

This is like using a discussion of the Holocaust denial to criticise the Jews? Nice try, but in fact, this is neither. It is about a Canadian minister and former journalist involved in Ukrainian nationalism.

And did the Jewish community in Poland kill 350,000 people? In fact, they were among those being persecuted, and in some cases deported east, and sent over the border to the Nazis.  So your comparison between them and the Soviet occupiers is a bit absurd.

 

voice of the damned

If the issue, as Freeland's critics here have stated, is not her grandfather's past but the fact that she lied about it, why are we focusing on how many degrees of separation exist between Freeland and Adolf Hiter? Even if Freeland had throughly denounced her grandfather, there would still be the same degrees of separation between her and Hitler.

6079_Smith_W

Except she did not lie about anything. She helped work on the article which publicized his connection with the Nazis.

As for the six degrees, there are probably as many degrees between some of us and that paperhanger. Might seem like the plague to someone who has never left Canada, but you don't have to spend too much time overseas to run into people who have some connection. In fact the history is everywhere, and there is no avoiding it. I know someone who was Hitler Youth as a child, and I have a several friends with family members who served in the German army, one whose father refused to talk about the experience.

 

 

 

voice of the damned

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Except she did not lie about anything. She helped work on the article which publicized his connection with the Nazis.

 

 

Well, be that as it may, her accusers here say she lied about it, and that that's the real issue. So I'm debating them on their own terms. My point is, even on those terms, the chart is an irrelevancy.

I believe Jack Layton had a grandfather in the cabinet of Maurice Duplessis. One wonders how Olivia Chow can sleep at night, hearing the screams of Wilbert Coffin in her head.

6079_Smith_W

Gotcha. Understood VOTD. I'd add that there is a good deal here that is not just irrelevancy, but false comparison and misdirection.

That is the whole reason why I posted links to pics of Soviet and German troops rubbing shoulders, in fact.

 

bekayne

But even the most obvious truths of history, such as the fact that the Soviets and Nazis were mortal enemies throughout WWII

So WWII started in June 1941?

 

NorthReport

Well said VOTD & Smith.

There may be many reasons not to support Freeland or the Liberals but the nonsense in this thread is not one of them. What a waste of bandwidth! 

bekayne

voice of the damned wrote:

If the issue, as Freeland's critics here have stated, is not her grandfather's past but the fact that she lied about it, why are we focusing on how many degrees of separation exist between Freeland and Adolf Hiter? Even if Freeland had throughly denounced her grandfather, there would still be the same degrees of separation between her and Hitler.

That's always a fun game anyone can play:

Vladimir Putin----United Russia---Freedom Party of Austria---Anton Reinthaller & Friedrich Peter----Adolf Hitler

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

It is obvious that none of you have read my report. I doubt you ever will.  Your focus is on defending Freeland and her grandfather and to distract attn from the many thousands of Nazi skeletons in Canada's closets.

Freeland did not help Himka write his essay -- which i read weeks before Winston "informed" me of it. 

She merely read his report AFTER he wrote it and she offered him some comments.  It was by reading the article that she learned the details of her maternal grandfather's complicity as the top Nazi propagandist spreading anti Semitic fake news throughout Nazi Europe  in the Ukrainian language.

What you fail to recognise about the FOUR degrees of separation is how very close each of those relationships was.  We are not talking merely about minor ships crossing in the night and hardly knowing each other.  These were very very CLOSE relationships that lasted many years.

My report is about Freeland, her grandfather and sympathies for the Nazis who killed 25-30 million Soviet citizens.  To distract the conversation away from their complicity in organisations and publications that were/are  profascist and to try to turn this discussion of that report into an attack on the Soviets is EXACTLY on par with using a discussion of the Holocaust to attack the Jews.  There was also a genocide against the Soviets.  Some people deny that genocide just as some people deny the Holocaust.  It is now considered tasteless to deny the Holocaust, but to deny the genocide of 25-30 million Soviets who died because of the Nazis, is still acceptable. 

Thank you very much for proving the points I made in my report about historical obfuscation, denial and Russophobia. 

If you would actually read what I wrote, you might learn something. 

6079_Smith_W

I have read pretty much everything you have posted here, and I have learned a few things. If you are asking for agreement with your methods or your conclusions, that is another matter.

Here, maybe this essay will help:

NorthReport

How easily we criticize others in wartime especially when fortunately we don't have to experience war ourselves

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

So I was right.  You haven't read my report.  You have only just "read pretty much everything" that I "have posted here." By that you mean you have read most what I have posted "HERE" on this Rabble discussion page, which is next to nothing of my research report.

My 25,000-word report is not "posted here" on Rabble.  It is posted at the COAT website.  Here again is the link to begin accessing the 21 sections of my report that I posted over there:

http://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/C-F1.htm

I should note here that my online report (posted not here but over there) is only just a SUMMARY of my research on the Freeland-Chomiak affair.  I have not yet made all of my material public. I thought I should get the summary-report posted first.  The real fine details are yet to come.

The yet-to-come details will be even less likely to be read by people at Rabble who are too busy criticising what they have not read.

Nice picture of Hitler that you posted.  Childish indeed!

I prefer however the one that I posted of him in section #16:
16 - Institutionalised Confidence Scams: An Open Conspiracy of Oligarchs, Politicians and Journalists

I think I made some headway in this research in my analysis of the role of institutionalised confidence schemes.

I was interested to find that Freeland promoted the CitiGroup analysts' truly wacky fake-news speculations on the genetic causes of plutocracy (!) right after again demonstrating her marked fixation on exaggerating the significance of Jewish financiers.  This was especially interesting because of CitiGroups' historic connections to war profiteering going back to the war of 1812, its close links to IG Farben which made the Zyclon gas used in the gas chambers and the fact that its war profiteering was exposed in the early 1930s by my favourite war hero-whistleblower, General Butler. 

 

6079_Smith_W

If it seems childish, do I really need to point out that is my intent? Is it really that different than accusing those you disagree with of having Stockholm syndrome, as you do upthread? Of not reading?

 

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Perhaps it is childish of me to think that Canadians might be interested to know some of the details about our Foreign Minister's decades-long history of involvement with fascist-linked Russophobic groups and publications.  I mean, really, why does it even matter? I mean except that it may have some effect on whether we go to war or not...

Perhaps I am foolish to believe that anyone would care to actually learn some of the details about her dido's life during the war, to see pictures of his two aryanised apartments, to see his letters about his family's use of furniture stolen from what he called "the jew Dr.Finkelstein," or to see his letter to Nazi authorities asking them to reimburse him for the cost of the "gas candles" that he used to defumigate his aryanised apartment because of those filthy Jews who the Nazi's had kicked out to make space for Ukrainian newcomers like him who took over the Jewish partof town, or to learn about his work as a court reporter in the 1930s covering a trial of Ukrainian terrorist/assassins while he simultaneously worked for a law firm defending them.  (Conflict of interest?)

Many members and supporters of those terror groups -- the OUN(M) and OUN(B) for example -- came to Canada after the war and got involved in leading ultranationalist Ukrainian orgs here that Freeland and her grandfather have been involved with.  She is the highest profile symbol of the UCC whose member groups includes fascist veterans associations and groups that still openly revere leaders who called for German methods of extermination of Jews in Ukraine.  Seeing the pictures I have posted of smiling Canadian youth in uniform marching with the OUN (B) battle flag carrying a photo of Stetsko an ultrafascist leader is chilling. His antiSemitism was shockingly vile hate speech calling for their extermination. Or to see the photos I posted of these young people posing with uniformed UCC leader Paul Grod who Freeland calls a "friend" with a portrait of the fascist Stepan Bandera flanking their gathering.  Or to see Freeland marching in a parade 30 seconds ahead of a contingent of the "Right Sector" and a marching band of uniformed youth from the OUN(B) group in Canada.

I guess I was naive to even think Rabble was a forum for sharing these photos, videos, and original historical documents some of which have never been made public before.  Do you think we should all just look the other way when data like this reaches the surface?

If people are going to get nasty and criticise my work, I can handle that abuse.  I know this material pretty well. But if people are going to abuse my research without actually having read it, well, that is embarrassing.  I think people should do their homework.  I've done mine. 

Here is another image you might enjoy, It is from section 4 of my summary report called:

4 - The Nazis as Victims?  Sure, just Blame the Russians!


When in doubt, just blame the Russians.  A well-proven century-old strategy.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Perhaps I am foolish to believe that anyone would care to actually learn some of the details about her dido's life during the war

We're in Canada.  You can just say "grandfather"... unless there's some special reason for you to use a Ukranian term when the English term would be more clear -- to the point of trying to coin a new term, "Didogate".

I notice it on your blog, too.  Do you refer to your own grandfather as "Dido"?  If not, why would you refer to Freeland's?  Please don't say that it's out of respect for her and what she presumably called him -- I'm afraid that dog won't hunt.

This is why your posts always have a smell to them.  And why you have to spend so much time urging us all to ignore what our nostrils are telling us and just "read my 21 part blog post that could be summed up by 'Freeland = Russophobic Nazi".

NDPP

Trudeau Runs Risk Keeping Flawed Politician As Foreign Minister   -  by Murry Dobbin

https://t.co/RMJqRTlN9g

"As for the mendacious Ms Freeland, why on earth is she still in one of the most important cabinet posts in the Trudeau government?"

 Judging from some of the local progressively imperialist types , Freeland may in fact represent some people perfectly.

6079_Smith_W

" If people are going to get nasty and criticise my work, I can handle that abuse.  I know this material pretty well. But if people are going to abuse my research without actually having read it, well, that is embarrassing.  I think people should do their homework.  I've done mine. "

Nasty? Seriously, grow up.

You come out of the gate comparing people to Hitler, with ad hominems about people being brainwashed. And when others here point out some of the problems with your article we're supposedly being nasty and abusive, and the same as Holocaust deniers.

No one is stopping you from posting a damned thing. But if you are going to post over-the top, half-baked, and frankly insulting accusations, expect people to call them out for what they are.

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

This is why your posts always have a smell to them.  And why you have to spend so much time urging us all to ignore what our nostrils are telling us and just "read my 21 part blog post that could be summed up by 'Freeland = Russophobic Nazi".

Magoo wrote the above statement.  It is utterly fake news. 

He put quotation marks around something which he pretends that I said.  Trouble for him is that I never said that. 

In fact, I have never said anywhere that Freeland is -- or ever was -- a Nazi.  She is not a Nazi, she is a Liberal. 

 

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

I never even said P.M. Mackenzie King was a Nazi. He was not a Nazi.

However I point out the antiSemitism of his government, which is well-known.  And I pointed out that the Liberal government turned away Jewish refugees from Canada during the war (and even put 2000 of them in Canadian POW camps, along with 300 communist refugees from Europe during much of the war), with the Liberal success in bringing thousands of Ukrainian Nazi SS veterans to Canada, plus veterans of of the OUN(B)'s Army, a Ukrainian fascist military which even the CIA later called a terrorist group (although they -- like the Nazis -- worked with them). 

I also said this:
"And, lest we forget, MacKenzie King wrote glowingly in his diaries about the various friendly personal meetings that he had in Europe with luminaries such as Benito Mussolini, Adolph Hitler, Gestapo-founder Hermann Göring, SS Gruppenführer Konstantin von Neurath and other infamous Nazis. Besides being a hardcore antiSemite, King greatly admired Europe’s fascist leaders. In particular, he greatly respected the ardent zeal with which they persecuted communists."
I even cited the date references in King's Diaries in footnote #6.
Diaries of W.L.Mackenzie King, September 27-28, 1928 (on Mussolini) and June 23-29, 1937 (on Hitler, Göring and von Neurath)

For more on this look in section#2 of my report.
2 - The Liberal Government's Warm Embrace of Ukraine's Nazi Collaborators

I am doing this in the spirit of truth and reconciliation re: genocides in which Canadians have taken a role.

I thought truth and reconciliation was a good Canadian thing to do these days. 

Some prefer to turn a blind eye to this Canadian history and fall back on that tried-and-ture tactic of blaming those pesky Russians for everything, including WWII.


There are plenty more pictures of King's trip to Nazi Germany.

6079_Smith_W

Right.

"It takes a Village to raise a Nazi"

I'm not sure what is worse. Using these (and other) smear tactics, or pretending that isn't what you meant when someone calls you on it.

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Though there would be a slightly more direct and relevant connection, as one of the things that newspaper was able to do, despite its collaboration with the Nazis, was to report on NKVD atrocities that were happening in the Soviet zone.

Just wanted to point out re: Smith's comments about the Nazi propaganda paper edited by Freeland's Ukrainian grandfather, that it did not merely "collaborate" with the Nazis.  It was created and funded thanks to the Nazi regime.  The Nazis also provided the printing press used by this newspaper (and all of the many other magazines, papers, bulletins published by the Ukrainian Publishing House, which was run by the Ukrainian Central Committee, of which Chomiak's boss was president. Remember, he was the one who set up the Ukrainian Encyclopedia project that Freeland worked on at age 18 at the Univ. of Alberta, whose chancellor was a veteran of the Ukrainian Waffen SS.)

The Nazis also provided the office space used by the newspaper and its publishing company.  The printing press and office were stolen (aryanised) from a Jewish publishing company, which had run the largest Jewish newspaper in Krakow until 1939 when thousands of Ukrainians came tooccupied Poland to gain the protection of their Nazi friends.  (I found a pre-war picture of the Jewish office and put it in my report.)

Many other Jewish homes, offices, businesses and possessions were given to the Ukrainian collaborators like Chomiak when they came to occupy the Jewish section of Krakow.  Almost all these Jews, displaced by Ukrainians were exterminated like pests in nearby concentration camps. Chomiak's newspapers didn't cover that news.  It focused on running glowing coverage of Nazi battles and fake news about the common cause of a Ukrainian-Nazi struggle against bloodthirsty JudaeoMuscovite monster threatening the civilisation of all Europe.  They especially liked to exaggerate the Jewish membership within the NKVD as Himka and other scholars have pointed out.

Thanks to Nazi largesse the Ukrainians set up at least 3 coffee shops, restaurants, and a bank.  Chomiak got a respectable salary.  His newly aryanised publishing office was a mere three minute walk from the second aryanised apartment that the Nazis provided to the Chomiaks.  You can see this river-view apartment (and his first aryanised apartment -- which was part of a palace complex) and use street view to retrace his 300-metre walk to work in this section of my report:

8 - Aryanisation and the "Mighty Wurlitzer"

6079_Smith_W

*sigh*

Yes Richard. We know that the Nazis ran pretty much everything in their zone of occupation. They had a good deal of influence in the Soviet zone as well, since both they and the Soviets collaborated in suppressing resistance movements, and Nazis paid the Soviets in exchange for military supplies (oil, rubber) and aid  (icebreakers, for example) for their war machine.

The sense in which it was collaboration though, is that Ukrainian nationalists had their agenda, and Nazis had their agenda. There are some ways in which those two agendas were the same, and other very significant ways in which they were not. One big difference is that nationalists did not come there because they had any love for the Nazis. It is because they would likely have been murdered if they stayed in the Soviet zone.

You only have to look at the fact that Ukrainian fascist Stepan Bandera was thrown into Sachsenhausen by the Nazis when he proved a liability, and released three years later when they thought he might be useful in fighting the Soviets.

Hitler was happy to have a quid pro quo with Ukrainians when it served him. And until Barbarossa, he and Joseph Stalin had an arrangement which was exactly the same, though much larger, and much bloodier.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

No one is stopping you from posting a damned thing. But if you are going to post over-the top, half-baked, and frankly insulting accusations, expect people to call them out for what they are.

I love when you get all passive agressive in the morning.

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

*groan*

One big difference is that nationalists did not come there because they had any love for the Nazis. It is because they would likely have been murdered if they stayed in the Soviet zone.

You say the Ukrainians who sought out the protection of the Nazis and lived under their protection in occupied Poland (while millions of Jews were annihilated) were merely fleeing the Soviets, and did not have "any love" the Nazis.  This is what Freeland and other ultranationalist Ukrainians also always say. 

I disagree.  I think there was love between them.  I think it was mutual.

Why wouldn't these fascist Ukrainians love the Nazis?  The Nazis gave them jobs in occupied Poland.  They gave them homes, they gave them businesses, they gave them publishing companies, they gave them printing presses for newspapers, books, magazines, etc., they gave them whole neighbourhoods, they gave them wealth, they gave them protection, they gave them prestige, they gave them handshakes, they gave them an opening to create a nice bubble of "freedom" under the grace of the Third Reich where they really did enjoy a nice lifestyle, with Ukrainian coffee shops, restaurants, schools, banks, the works.  What more could the Ukrainians want.  If they didn't love the nazis then they were a trifle unappreciative don't you think? 

  And most of what they got from the nazis was stolen from the Jews.  It was a win-win gain for the Nazis and the ukrainian fascists, like Freeland's grandfather.

Can you show a single piece of evidence that the Ukrainian fascists opposed receiving these gifts?  Neither can I or anyone else.

Why wouldn't the Ukrainian fasicts love the Nazis?  They were great supporters, benefactors.

Also they shared a fascist worldview.  They saw eye to eye on fascism. 

Also the Ukrainian fascists and the Nazis both hated Jews and they both hated communists. 

Birds of a feather don't you think?

So they had a lot in common and it was a mutually beneficial relationship.  The Nazis used the Ukrainians in carrying out mass murder, genocide, the Holocaust.  So the Nazis were obviously very happy with the Ukranian fascists too.

The best gift was that the Nazis even gave the Ukrainians an army, the Waffen SS Galicia.  Who else did the Nazis give an army to?  I think there may have been one other nationality that got to have their own Nazi SS division but I could be wrong.  This was a special dispensation. This Nazi SS division, which Chomiak's boss asked for in 1939, was finally granted in 1943.  The Ukrainian Waffen SS was funded, armed, trained and led by the Nazis.  Nazi uniforms and the works!  The Ukrainian churches were very gung ho for setting up this Ukrtainian SS division and did a lot of recruiting, as did Chomiak's newspapers.  The Ukrainian leadership was so happy when the Nazis gave them this SS division!  They rejoiced.  They were delighted to be able to pledge allegiance to Hitler to die for him in the religious fight to against their common enemies, the Soviets and the Jews.  Read the stuff from Chomiak's newspaper about how they loved being part of the nazi war machine to fight the Judeo-Bolshevik monster.

The Nazis however prefered the Melnyk faction of the Ukrainian nationalists terror organisation, ie., the OUN (M).  They thought the Bandera faction was not as in tune with Nazism and its ambitions.  They thought Bandera's more extreme nationalism was a bit more difficult to manage than the OUN(M) brand of nationalism that Kubijovich and Chomiak represented.  Yes the Nazis held Bandera for awhile but then he did work for them.  I gave a source from the Nuremberg trials which showed that both Bandera and Melnyk were agents of the Nazis. 

As for Bandera...  Banderites have dominated Canada's Ukrainian Canadian Congress for 20 years. 

Here is a section dealing with that problem. There you will see some present-day photos of Canadians, children and adult alike, who openly rever Bandera the fascist as a great hero. 

Contrary to what you have said, I never called this "brainwashing."  It is simply a normal part of cultural programming. What would you call it instead?

9 - The Ukrainian Canadian Congress and its Fascist Roots

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

The photos and quote from Stetsko are from section 9 of my report here:
9 - The Ukrainian Canadian Congress and its Fascist Roots

OUN(B) chairman Yaroslav Stetsko was Bandera's right hand man.  After Bandera's death, Stetsko led the OUN(B) between 1968 and 1986.  Stetsko also led a CIA-supported, fascist organisation called Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations between 1946 and 1986.


In 2012, the OUN(B)'s youth organisation commemorated an anniversary of chairman Stetsko in Etobicoke Ontario.  Photographs of this event show uniform-wearing Ukrainian-Canadian children marching in formation reverently carrying Stetsko's portrait.  Other children in the formation are shown carrying Canadian and Ukrainian flags, and the red and black battle flag of Bandera's army, the UPA.(1)

Yaroslav Stetsko's 1941 autobiography summed up some of OUN(B)'s extremist beliefs about their prime enemies, the Jews and communists. Their fascist ideology closely coincides with the Nazi ideologies promulgated in Krakivs'ki visti  [one of the newspapers edited by Chrystia Freeland's grandfather, Michael Chomiak].

Here is an excerpt from Stetsko's autobiography which illustrates his endorsement of Nazi methods for "exterminating Jewry in Ukraine":

"I consider Marxism to be a product of the Jewish mind, which, however, has been applied in the Muscovite prison of peoples by the Muscovite-Asiatic people with the assistance of Jews. Moscow and Jewry are Ukraine's greatest enemies and bearers of corruptive Bolshevik international ideas. I ... fully appreciate the undeniably harmful and hostile role of the Jews, who are helping Moscow to enslave Ukraine. I therefore support the destruction of the Jews and the expedience of bringing German methods of exterminating Jewry to Ukraine, barring their assimilation and the like."(2)(Emphasis added.)

Footnotes:
1. The photos also show Canadian children carrying flags of Canada, Ukraine and the battle flag of the OUN(B)

"100th anniversary of OUN-B chairperson Yaroslav Stetsko" (translation)
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/113125935693645434240/album/AF1QipPbOdb1IdQxRxwj-P10j3EmBAsCts1PmZ_EyAfI

2.Yaroslav Stetsko, "My Biography," July 1941. (Translated by Karel Berkhoff and Marco Carynnyk)
https://training.ehri-project.eu/sites/training.ehri-project.eu/files/EHRI_UKRAINE_A_7_translation.pdf

See the original document here
https://training.ehri-project.eu/sites/training.ehri-project.eu/files/A7%20Stetsko.pdf

Stetsko also denounced Jews in this other document:

Zynovii Karbovych [Iaroslav Stets’ko], “Zhydivstvo i my,” ("We and Jewry"), Novyi shliakh, 8 May 1939, p.3.
https://training.ehri-project.eu/sites/training.ehri-project.eu/files/Karbovych%20We%20and%20Jewry%20%5Btranslation%5D.pdf 

See the original document here:
https://training.ehri-project.eu/sites/training.ehri-project.eu/files/Ukraine%20A-1%20Stetsko%20Zhydivstvo%20i%20my%20DPI.pdf

6079_Smith_W

You say the Ukrainians who sought out the protection of the Nazis and lived under their protection in occupied Poland (while millions of Jews were annihilated)

You are muddling your history up, Richard. People fled over the border at the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop  Pakt. But the Death camps didn't crank into full gear until later. Until Barbarossa the Soviets and Nazis were only killing people in the hundreds of thousands. And some historians say it was far bloodier on the eastern side of the line.

You are aware, surely of Soviet complicity in sending Jewish people over the line to the Nazis? And their deportations.

And you are back with the smears about people being Nazi supporters. Do you think so or not? If so, then why do you get mealy-mouthed about it and start backpedalling and denying when people point out what you are saying?

Note to kropotkin: there is nothing passive (nor particularly aggressive) about what I am saying here. I am just asking someone to stand by his words.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Note to kropotkin: there is nothing passive (nor particularly aggressive) about what I am saying here. I am just asking someone to stand by his words.

Good then you don't mind if I tell you that I find much of what you post to be over-the top and half-baked. However I am sure if I lead with that it is unlikely it will result in a good respectful debate amongst allies.

6079_Smith_W

I don't mind at all, k. And if you have something to back it up with, I don't see why it shouldn't result in respectful debate.

 

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Smith you are misrepresenting what I said.  You say:

You say the Ukrainians who sought out the protection of the Nazis and lived under their protection in occupied Poland (while millions of Jews were annihilated)

You are muddling your history up, Richard. People fled over the border at the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop  Pakt. But the Death camps didn't crank into full gear until later.

The Ukrainians certainly WERE living in occupied Poland under Nazi protection while the Jews were being liquidated.  Yes they went there in the fall of 1939, but they remained there til 1945. What I've said is that the Ukrainians fled the Soviets to take advantage of the Nazi protection and benevolence in 1939 and then they lived there under Nazi umbrella of support.  Between 1939 and 1945 the Ukrainians took all that the Nazis gave them (which had been taken largely from the Jewish community). 

So, yes indeed just like I said, while the Ukrainians were living in occupied Poland under the benevolence of Nazi military's protection, and the Third Reich's benevolence and support, the Ukrainian community enjoyed their precious bubble of grace while they watched the Jews get expelled to ghettoes and then get liquidated from there to the death camps.  The Ukrainians knew full well that the apartments, businesses, stores, neighbourhoods, properties, furnishings etc etc had been stolen from the Jewish community. 

Chomiak certainly knew this as it is explicitely stated in the letter I have uploaded as part of my research report.  But his newspapers did not worry Ukrainians about the extermination of Jews.  The newspaper of Freeland's Ukrainian grandfather helped painted the Jews and the Communists as enemies while simultaneously presenting the Nazis as the wondrous saviours and protectors of European civilisation. 

Smith, do you think this a reasonable position for the Ukrainian fascists  to have taken?  What do you think?  Was it reasonable for the Ukrainians to hate the Jews and the Communists?  Were they justified in taking Jewish apartments, businesses, furniture and other wealth from the Jews?  Were they justified in joining the Nazis in the war against their common enemies?

I don't think they were justified in that.  Ukrainian fascists and their offspring have received a lot of cultural programming to justify and rationalise the complicity of wartime Ukrainians in the Holocaust and in the genocide that was committed by the nazis and their allies in the massacre of 25-30 million Soviet citizens. 

I really want to know if you think the Ukrainians during WWII were justified in their complicity in stealing all that wealth from the Jews as they were being persecuted, and whether the Ukrainian community was justified in taking up arms to join the Nazis in their war against Jews and Soviets. 

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

The Ukrainian fascists and their offspring love to compare Hitler and Stalin, the Nazis and the Communists, as if they were one and the same.  In the most important ways, they were excat opposites.  That is why the Nazis saw the Communists as their main enemy.  That is why the Nazis killed 25-30 million Soviets.  That is why 9 million Soviets died in the fight to destroy Nazism.  That is why the Soviets chased the Nazis back across Euope and led their defeat

Chomiak and Kubijovich and the Ukrainian Central Committee were not saying that Hitler and the Communists were the same.  They saw Hitler as the great Fuhrer who they urged Ukrainian youth to fight to the death for in the noble war against the USSR.  The Ukrainian nationalists knew that they shared two common enemies with the Nazis, the Communists and the Jews.  The Nazis and the Ukrainian fascists knew the Nazis and the Soviets were opposites.  They pledged to join one side to exterminate the other.  They nearly succeeded.  I'm glad that the Nazis and their Ukrainian allies failed in their joint mission. I'm sorry that 25-30 million Soviet citizens died because of the Nazis.  Are you?

Postwar fascists and others fixate on the non-aggression pact between Germany and the USSR, that ended with the Nazi's Operation Barbarrosa.  That invasion led to the deaths of tens of millions. Fixating on that pact necessitates an ignorance of or a turning of blind eyes away from certain other facts.  This is a case of historical amnesia. 

I wrote about it in the third section of my report:
3 - Historical Amnesia and the Blinding Effects of Propaganda

See footnote #9 in particular on "Black Ribbon Day"

6079_Smith_W

The communist regime which starved and murdered their people? I'd say they had good reason to be resentful. And good reason to flee the country rather than meet the same fate.

Those of them who were anti-Semitic, and who collaborated with the Nazis certainly have to answer for that (as do all others, including the Soviets). As for how much that makes them complicit in the Holocaust, that is a complicated matter. I could also ask you how responsible the Soviets are for the occupation of Poland, for deportation of Jews back to the Nazis, in many cases to their death.

To cut to the chase, your trying to cast the Soviets as innocent parties, or worse, as victims of the Ukrainians, simply does not jive with the real history. They were a far more powerful, and far more complicit party here.

I have no problem talking about the complicated aspects of this, in fact I have done so. How about you?

 

 

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Those of them who were anti-Semitic, and who collaborated with the Nazis certainly have to answer for that

Okay so if you agree that they "have to answer for that" collaboration, you should in some way be appreciative of my efforts to throw some light on Chomiak and the ultranationalist Ukrainian community in Canada which STILL to this day insists on venerating Bandera, Stetsko, the OUN.   There are groups in Canada today that raise children to see these fascist/antiSemites as great Ukrainian heroes.  Those children grow up without ever learning that their heroes and their organisations were deeply complicit in mass murder and genocide. 

Is it right that children are brought up to take such a one-sided view of history?  Children become adults who then spout all sorts of whitewashed history and are prone to constantly blame the Russians for everything, including blaming them for exposing the fact that Freeland's Ukrainian grandfather was a top Nazi propagandist.

What should we do when we see such obfuscation and denial going on in our society?  When every mention of WWII causes these people to launch into knee-jerk attacks against the Soviets and/or Russia.

We don't think its kosher when antiSemites launch into knee-jerk attacks against Jews every time the Holocaust is mentioned.  So why is it still ok to launch into antiSoviet attacks whenever WWII and the Nazis are mentioned?

As the offspring of parents who were both veterans of WWII and were both part of the fight against Nazism, I feel personally involved in this struggle.  After WWII, both of my parents became very involved in the antiwar movement and were peace activists for many decades.

What about you Smith, were your parents also veterans of WWII? 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Those children grow up without ever learning that their heroes and their organisations were deeply complicit in mass murder and genocide.  Is that right?

Do you also have a message for children of Russian-Canadians?  What should they be learning?  Besides that THEIR "dido" had nothing to do with any of this?

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Magoo, have you done a report or written an article or a blog on Russian-Canadian children and how they are being culturally programmed in some way that you believe promotes hero-worship of mass murderers or genocidal organisations?  If so please direct me to the link.  I promise I will read it with great interest. 

6079_Smith_W

In the first place Richard, I'm curious what you have to say about the other part of my response - about those same people having good reason to be resentful of the government that starved and murdered their people, and likely would have killed them if they stayed.

I think I have made quite enough effort to meet you at the mid point here.

And I will answer your question, I promise. But first I'd like you to tell me why you think your family or mine has anything to do with your values, or mine. Kind of gets back to your little four degrees thing.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Magoo, have you done a report or written an article or a blog on Russian-Canadian children and how they are being culturally programmed in some way that you believe promotes hero-worship of mass murderers or genocidal organisations?  If so please direct me to the link.  I promise I will read it with great interest.

No, I haven't. 

I'm asking if YOU have.  You're the one worrying about children growing up without ever learning that their heroes and their organisations were deeply complicit in mass murder and genocide.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

 

I'm asking if YOU have.  You're the one worrying about children growing up without ever learning that their heroes and their organisations were deeply complicit in mass murder and genocide.

I thought that was one of the very good reasons for the Truth and Reconciliation process. 

Richard Sanders Richard Sanders's picture

Thanks Kropotkin.  I agree that truth and reconciliation is a key process here.

I'm interested in how institutionalised cultural forces create social orders that can be pathological.  One example of the normalisation of social narcissism was Nazi Germany.  Another example is Canada and Residential Schools. Both cultural processes were genocidal. 

We all know that Nuremberg said that "following orders" is no excuse for committing mass murder.  But, perhaps because of my background studying anthropology, I'm interested in cultural orders, unspoken commands, ones that silently tell people to fixate on certain issues or enemies for example.  People are entranced by social directives, orders, ideologies (religious &/or political) which command them to do things, to commit atrocities in the name of goodness and civilisation and all things motherhoody.

I wrote about that process here in section 18 of my report:
18 - Just Following Orders?  Which Orders?


That section has a bunch of interesting artwork by a Polish artist (Karl Waldmann) who used Freeland's grandfather's newspapers in some of his collages many decades ago.  Here are two of Waldmann's collages, but you can see more in my report.

Magoo and Smith argue here (and I'm sure Freeland, the Cdn govt, the mainstream media would agreed) that rather than using my time to write a report that blows the lid on our Foreign Minister's strong, longstanding links to fascist groups, publications and ideologies, that I should instead have fixated my attention on historic crimes committed by the Soviets and the Russians.

But that work of fixating everyone's attention on historic Soviet crimes is already being done so very well (and has been done for all the decades of the the Cold War, and since) by Canada's mainstream corporate news media, by Hollywood, by shlocky novels, by the tripe-ridden speeches of Canadian governments of all stripes, by the ultranationalist fascist-linked Ukrainian groups with the ear of government, and by other NATO governments and other huge media empires, and by the CIA and its front organisations, and by such a vast array of cultural forces and institutions that it would take ages just to itemise a single day in the chaotic global enterprise of propaganda emanating from their mighty Wurlitzer. 


This huge swirling mass of antiSovietism and Russophobia is so overwhelming and has had such a powerful effect on people's attitudes that any tiny meagre efforts by me to write yet one more antiSoviet diatribe would be akin to the tiniest puff of wind in the maelstrom of this Cold-War cultural hurricane.

Besides, Magoo and Smith are missing (delibrately or not) the whole point of my research. 

Canada's Foreign Minister, Chrystia Freeland, is NOT linked to proSoviet groups, publications or ideologies.  Quite the opposite.  She is linked to groups that hero-worship fascists. 

No Canadian cabinet minister has ever been caught promoting the culturally atrocious idea that the Soviets ever did anything good.  Even their role in defeating the Nazis cannot be mentioned in polite company.  It is not kosher.  Not even here on Rabble.

And when I write a report exposing Canada's current Foreign Minister's longstanding ties to fascist groups, publications, and ideologies, these people here on Rabble get angry at me for not writing one more report on the Evil Empire. 

Reagan and MacCarthy and so many other rightwing idiots before and since in the USA, Canada and throughout the "civilised" world have already such a fine job spinning our culture in that ideological direction that, well, we have ended up with a Foreign Minister like Chrystia Freeland, whose Ukrainian grandfather was a Nazi propagandist, and whose cultural heritage of Ukrainian ultranationalism is so deeply embedded in her psyche that she tried to use the news about her grandfather to direct Canadian outrage at the Russians. 

And some folks here on Rabble follow the same cultural order. 

We need truth and reconciliation bigtime, even here on Rabble.

6079_Smith_W

Magoo and Smith argue here (and I'm sure Freeland, the Cdn govt, the mainstream media would agreed) that rather than using my time to write a report that blows the lid on our Foreign Minister's strong, longstanding links to fascist groups, publications and ideologies, that I should instead have fixated my attention on historic crimes committed by the Soviets and the Russians.

No, I'm not arguing that, Richard. And I am not angry. What I am saying is that pretending that the Soviet occupiers were victims (and that my pointing that out is no different than holocaust denial) is completely false. People in all camps collaborated with the Nazis, and the Soviets were the biggest collaborators of all because they used that relationship to invade and entire country. So if you are going to look at the collaboration and anti-semitism of some Ukrainians to ignore that wider context is simply dishonest. 

I know you are not an ignorant guy, and you are aware of this, yet you continue to do it anyway. I have acknowledged that those Ukrainians who worked with the Nazis bear some responsibility for that, yet you are not budging, despite the fact the Soviets murdered hundreds of thousands of people during those years, and turned many more over to the Nazis.

But you just asked me a question which I find curious - what my family did during the war. I'm curious because it is a trope like the one at the top of this thread. And I am even more curious because I have read your articles, and pretty much every one reduces anyone who fought in that war (certainly anyone who fought in the Canadian army) to an Imperialist. Since you bring it up, does that rule not apply to your own family?

So I will answer you, but I am really curious as to why you ask the question.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

reduces anyone who fought in that war (certainly anyone who fought in the Canadian army) to an Imperialist. Since you bring it up, does that rule not apply to your own family?

So I will answer you, but I am really curious as to why you ask the question.

It is hard to distill the essence of a war that massacred most of a generation of Europeans and many more from the Commonwealth.  WWI was a straight forward battle between warring imperialist regimes. In the part of the country I lived in the resistance to the war used exactly that language urging men not to get sucked into an imperialist war that was not for the benefit of the workingman in any country. We still commemorate the life of a union organizer murdered by a special constable for hiding in the woods above Cumberland. The government was only interested in Ginger despite the fact that many of the young towns people had refused to respond to the Military Service Act. 

Here is what I think of people who cheerlead for their side to win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfZVu0alU0I

 

6079_Smith_W

Exactly, kropotkin. Not only are our values not determined by what our family did or did not do, people joined those wars on all sides for all kinds of reasons. Some people did vile things for an ostensibly noble cause. Some people acted bravely for a terrible cause. Some people thought they were going on a great adventure. And many people on principle, decided they wanted no association with any of it. It cannot just be looked at through an ideological lens.

(edit)

It reminds me of some of the 1812 rhetoric about Tecumseh fighting for Canada, when in fact he was really fighting for his own nation, which is part of the reason why his people fought so much harder and better than the Canadians did.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Magoo and Smith argue here (and I'm sure Freeland, the Cdn govt, the mainstream media would agreed) that rather than using my time to write a report that blows the lid on our Foreign Minister's strong, longstanding links to fascist groups, publications and ideologies, that I should instead have fixated my attention on historic crimes committed by the Soviets and the Russians.

Well, Richard, real journalists do tend to make an attempt to at least provide some sort of balance in their reporting.  But more than that, please don't think I'm asking to to change your fixations.  I'm suggesting that when your fixations are so abundantly clear, it talks over your research or your facts.

I'll put it in even simpler terms:  reputable and trustworthy journos don't have agendas that are obvious enough to see from space.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I'll put it in even simpler terms:  reputable and trustworthy journos don't have agendas that are obvious enough to see from space.

That is true and unfortunately most MSM employ people who follow THE agenda. At least he is setting his own agenda not having to write someones elses in order to make a living at one of those "reputable" MSM outlets. Strange how you only see one side's propaganda and not the embedded right wing agenda.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
At least he is setting his own agenda not having to write someones elses in order to make a living at one of those "reputable" MSM outlets.

I'm not saying they're reputable.  But if they can write a somewhat balanced story -- even if they actually have beliefs of their own -- that's still better than someone who cannot.

I'll say again:  I don't believe that Richard needs to "switch" his fixations.  I think he should abandon "fixations" altogether.  Or if not, then at least put them in the back row where they won't be noticed.

Quote:
Strange how you only see one side's propaganda and not the embedded right wing agenda.

That's because that one side's propaganda sets its hair on fire, jumps up and down, and screeches "Look at me!  Look at who the real fascist is!!!!!!!"  They make it easy for all of us to see.

Pages