Horwath just “good enough”?

10 posts / 0 new
Last post
robbie_dee
Horwath just “good enough”?

Martin Regg Cohn, ‘After a decade of defeats, NDP’s Horwath still just “good enough,”’ Toronto Star, 11 June 2019

Quote:

Officially, they are the official opposition.

In reality, Andrea Horwath’s New Democrats are punching — and polling — well below their weight.

This weekend, Horwath will be held to account at an NDP convention and leadership review to decide whether she takes the party into her fourth provincial campaign, expected in 2022. After 10 years in the job, Horwath may be the longest-serving major party leader in Canada today — enduring if not always endearing to voters.

In the daily question period, the NDP leader still reads methodically from her notes when speaking, despite her decade of experience. In the media, Horwath is often overshadowed by her Liberal and Green party rivals.

With Premier Doug Ford’s Tories tumbling, the NDP would seem well placed to profit from PC unpopularity. Yet Horwath’s New Democrats appear unable to gain traction at a time of widespread political discontent, a year after they claimed second place in the “change” election that brought Ford to power.

Surprisingly, one poll last month showed the battered Liberal party has vaulted from a distant third place into the lead, with the NDP languishing well back alongside the wounded Tories. In other surveys, the NDP is roughly tied with the Liberals and Tories and unable to break out, while the last-place Greens are gaining fresh support.

Time for Horwath to go?

 

Unionist

robbie_dee wrote:

Time for Horwath to go?

I'm a foreigner (Québec), but I thought it was time for her to go from the day she unilaterally changed the party platform, dropped the promise to reverse the full corporate tax cuts instituted by Mike Harris, and dropped the ONDP pension proposal. Besides all the rest of the pandering to business and the right.

Have you changed your mind five years later? Hope so.

But it will take more than a change of face. Maybe the membership should consider playing their role as per the constitution, and taking over the party. Just a crazy thought.

 

robbie_dee

Unionist wrote:

 

I'm a foreigner (Québec), but I thought it was time for her to go from the day she unilaterally changed the party platform, dropped the promise to reverse the full corporate tax cuts instituted by Mike Harris, and dropped the ONDP pension proposal. Besides all the rest of the pandering to business and the right.

 

Have you changed your mind five years later? Hope so.

Whoa, blast from the past! As implied by my post #2 in that thread, I was in favor of Horwath resigning after the 2014 election debacle. I thought the NDP precipitated an election when it didn't have to, ran a bad campaign on a weak platform, and ended up transforming a minority legislature in which it had leverage into a Liberal majority in which it had none.

That being said, Horwath did do a lot better in 2018 on the issues, on the campaign itself and of course in the result. Martin Regg Cohn is a Liberal troll.* IMO he may right that her refusal to suppport back to work legislation at York University cost her the last election. But it was the right thing to do. Have I changed my mind since 2014? Maybe I have. Horwath will never be the flashiest or most exciting leader. But after another 3 years of "excitement" from Ford maybe voters will be willing to give boring but competent a try. In any case, frankly, given that Horwath led the NDP to official opposition status and its second best ever result in Ontario next to 1990, I can't see her leaving now except voluntarily. Maybe if the federal leader's job comes open after this fall she will feel called into service to salvage whatever mess Jagmeet leaves behind. Otherwise I would expect her to lead the ONDP into the 2022 election and we'll just have to see where things stand after that.

*I realize I'm the one who posted his article, but who doesn't enjoy a good troll once in a while?

WWWTT

Number one problem in my opinion for the ONDP is public auto insurance!

It has to re enter the ONDP platform. When Bob Rae abandonded it, he cursed the ONDP for decades to come.

Horwath has no intention to bring up the subject. And oddly enough Jagmeet tried to introduce an alternate insurance premium reduction that failed.

Horwath's time has come. Stepping down would be the best thing for the ONDP.

robbie_dee

"'I'm here for the long haul': Andrea Horwath says she'll lead NDP in next election," CBC, 13 June, 2019

Quote:

NDP Leader Andrea Horwath says she's "here for the long haul" and committed to running for premier in the next Ontario election, as she released a new climate plan that will form a "central part" of the party's 2022 platform.

"I'm here for the long haul to take us to the next election and run for the premier of the province," Horwath told reporters in Hamilton Thursday.

"Membership willing."

Tackling climate change will be a key focus in Horwath's bid; she released a new climate plan —the "Ontario Green New Democratic Deal" — hours after her speech. Climate change will be a "big focus" at the NDP convention this weekend, which draws delegates from across the province.

In the newly-released plan, the NDP says it will "move as close to zero emissions as is technologically feasible" by 2050 in Ontario, while creating jobs, training workers and supporting existing industries. The NDP says it will reduce emissions by at least 50 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030.

The party also says it will retrofit five per cent of Ontario's building per year, to reduce emissions from buildings.

Aristotleded24

As to the question at hand? I think Horwath should stick around if she can. She led the NDP to its second-best ever showing in public support. There are a few reasons why that support has not held. When one party performs outside of its traditional range of public support during an election, it is not unusual for support to move back to within that range during the off period. The problems of the federal NDP brand will no doubt be weighing down the provincial party. People are so scared at the prospect of a Conservative majority that by default they will support the Liberals, especially in a province used to supporting the Liberal party. But all is not lost. As a leader, Horwath polls very well. We are only one year into this government's mandate. There is still more time to go, and to firm up support. This may be helped if the federal NDP finds a new leader who does a better job of connecting with people in the Fall.

As for the fact that she didn't win, would that have been the best outcome? She would have had to lead a government while the majority of the elected MPPs would be still learning the ropes. and that no doubt would have impacted the party's chance of being re-elected. Just watch what happened in Alberta. This way the NDP has a chance to solidify its team, and should the NDP in the next election, there will be a core group of MPPs already experienced who can steer the team in a productive direction.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ontario voters seem to be happy with Canada's status quo. It doesn't matter whether its a white cat or a black cat in charge since the largest economy in the country has a dynamic that means the people who have good jobs don't lose them very often. If there are large job loses all political parties express their profound empathy and promise whatever it takes, to get elected that is . The NDP keeps trying to get votes from people in the middle class who are doing all right. What a barren field for planting the seeds of a social justice country based on a green vision. The BC NDP at least knew the right lies to tell before the last election.

The BC NDP and the Alberta NDP have ruined the brand as a suitable vehicle for voters whose top priorities are tied to climate chaos issues. I think that Notley's obnoxious oil sycophant act and Horgan's own homage to the petro dollar with Site C, LFG plants and pipelines have led voters in the maritimes to look elsewhere.

It seems Horwath is a good as she needs to be. My question is whether the party is a vehicle for societal change or are its drivers just a bunch of tabby cats.

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
The BC NDP and the Alberta NDP have ruined the brand as a suitable vehicle for voters whose top priorities are tied to climate chaos issues. I think that Notley's obnoxious oil sycophant act and Horgan's own homage to the petro dollar with Site C, LFG plants and pipelines have led voters in the maritimes to look elsewhere.

This I have to disagree with very strongly. I think voters in the maratimes are capable of taking stock of their own situation and voting accordingly without needing any cues from anywhere else in the country. The NDP has long struggled to gain traction in New Brunswick and PEI. The Green breakthroughs in 2014 and 2015 respectively happened before the NDP was elected in BC, and in Prince Edward Island's case, at pretty much the exact same time as the NDP broke through in Alberta. In 2014, the NDP actually had more votes than the Greens in New Brunswick, however the Greens were lucky enough for that to be concentrated in one seat, the NDP not so much. Pre-campaign polls for New Brunswick aren't available, but if you look at the 2015-2019 period of polls for PEI, the Greens eclipsed the NDP just after the federal party became irrelevant. In any case, after the Greens broke through, was it that hard go guess where the anti-establishment vote was going to go?

I get that you're angry about Site C and LNG in BC, and I respect that position. Having lived under an (alleged) NDP government here in Manitoba, on the area of reducing poverty, I will take what Horgan has accomplished over the last 2 years over what the Manitoba NDP claims to have accomplished in 17 years any day of the week.

Unionist

Aristotleded24 wrote:

I get that you're angry about Site C and LNG in BC, and I respect that position. Having lived under an (alleged) NDP government here in Manitoba, on the area of reducing poverty, I will take what Horgan has accomplished over the last 2 years over what the Manitoba NDP claims to have accomplished in 17 years any day of the week.

I agree with both of you. But A24 does have a point.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think it is about priorities. Yes they have done some good things but in the face of climate chaos they are a failure as a government. I look at how much they spend on oil and gas subsidies, even compared to the fucking BC Liberals, and I can't figure it out but they can't be given a pass on it. The problem is that the BC Greens are far more anti-worker and would like a  underclass of peons to provide the labour for "green" capitalists but only to save the planet not to exploit anyone.

The B.C. government is increasing income and disability assistance rates by $100 a month. The extra money will be tacked onto assistance cheques starting Sept. 20.

The B.C. Liberal government froze income assistance at $610 a month a decade ago. Those on welfare will now receive $710 per month.

The new monthly disability assistance rates will be $1,133 per person.

"Lifting families out of poverty starts with raising income assistance rates and assistance for people with disabilities. We're raising the rates to support people and help them live in dignity," said Premier John Horgan in a statement.

The increases will cost $180 million per year. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-government-set-to-in...

Our leaders have promised to end fossil-fuel subsidies, but they’re doing just the opposite. We’ve already agreed to sell power to LNG producers at less than half what it costs to produce it, and the fracking industry in B.C. gets $271 million per year worth of special drilling tax credits.

In March, Premier John Horgan announced another $6 billion worth of tax breaks for the LNG Canada project, despite having criticized the last provincial government for its LNG incentives. He scrapped a special LNG tax, postponed the PST on construction materials, and exempted the industry from any future carbon tax increases.

“Shell does not need handouts from the government,” Horgan said back in 2013.

Now he’s going far above and beyond what even former premier Christy Clark offered. He’s even taken up the tired talking points of “the cleanest LNG in the world” and “getting China off of coal”.

https://www.straight.com/news/1103226/peter-mccartney-its-back-massive-s...