ONDP convention next weekend in Hamilton

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infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture
ONDP convention next weekend in Hamilton

This afternoon I got a robocall from someone at Ontario NDP telling me about the convention next weekend in Hamilton. It sounds interesting -- a chance to hear Mulcair, K'Naan and more, as well as (I hope) some thoughtful discussions of Ontario issues.  The robocall directed me to the ONDP website for more information, but I must have the wrong website b/c on the main one, there's a notice about the convention, but when you click on the link that says something like "Join Andrea and the team" it's a link to join the party. Already been there, done that. Where can I find info on the convention -- what is happening when and where, what does it cost, how accessible is it (still on crutches from an injury so not up for walking a long way).

Hope someone here has inside information, or can at least direct me to the right place.Is there a members section of the website? I couldn't find it but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

 

 

Issues Pages: 
Regions: 
Paul Gross
North Star

It will be a mess. Martin Regg Cohn is a Liberal hack but he does identify the serious tensions in the party that will spill over into a full blown shit show: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1159962--cohn-will-n...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
aka Mycroft

Is the resolution book (ie all resolutions proposed for this weekend's convention) online anywhere? Cohn's column discussed a few of the resolutions but I can't find anything on the ONDP website (or anywhere else).

Stockholm

M. Spector wrote:

[url=http://www.ndpsocialists.ca/Socialist%20Caucus%20Resolutions%20for%20201... Caucus resolutions[/url] (.pdf).

Working link to [url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1159962--cohn-will-n...'s column[/url] in the Star.

Is it procedurally possible to vote on one resulition that says "Be it resolved that all resolutions proposed by the Socialist Caucus are hereby rejected"?

aka Mycroft

Stockholm wrote:

M. Spector wrote:

[url=http://www.ndpsocialists.ca/Socialist%20Caucus%20Resolutions%20for%20201... Caucus resolutions[/url] (.pdf).

Working link to [url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1159962--cohn-will-n...'s column[/url] in the Star.

Is it procedurally possible to vote on one resulition that says "Be it resolved that all resolutions proposed by the Socialist Caucus are hereby rejected"?

That's handled by the resolutions priority committee, I believe.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Very true.

Doug

Abolish the HST and eliminate tuition....in the same term of office. Regardless of the benefits of either of those resolutions they pretty much sum up why the resolutions process really isn't a great way to make policy. In the real world, things are connected. Abolish the HST and you have a $21 billion hole in the provincial budget to fill with something. Eliminate tuition you have a somewhat smaller but still substantial hole. Someone with an interest in social services, tranportation or the environment might say, "Hey! I have a beter idea to use those resources!" They may or may not be right. With resolutions you can assemble a wish-list of ideas but there's no way of determining what's more important.

aka Mycroft

Is the convention being live streamed? If so, where?

Howard

It bears noting that the Ontario NDP goes into this convention essentially tied for 1st place in opinion polling. How the convention goes will probably have a major bearing on what direction those poll numbers head in.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

I doubt the party brass sees the convention as very important at all.

The provincial party website seems to be going out of its way to play down the convention as anything other than a "celebration" of the results of the last election! You will search in vain for a schedule of events or any mention - let alone actual discussion - of policy.

And absolutely no attempt is being made to connect the convention in any way with the present Ontario budget controversy - either as an opportunity for the party to respond to the Liberal austerity agenda or as a way for the leadership of the party to take advice on the budget from the members, as they seem so willing to do from the public at large. It's a convention in a bubble.

Freedom 55

M. Spector wrote:

And absolutely no attempt is being made to connect the convention in any way with the present Ontario budget controversy - either as an opportunity for the party to respond to the Liberal austerity agenda or as a way for the leadership of the party to take advice on the budget from the members, as they seem so willing to do from the public at large. It's a convention in a bubble.

 

I heard that they voted on a resolution to stop the freeze on welfare & increase taxes on the rich, which passed by the narrow margin of 218 to 208. Can anyone confirm this? Did a resolution to support ending a freeze on welfare really come down to a mere 10 votes?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Confirmation would be easy if the NDP would put the information on their goddam useless website. But like every other convention resolution they pass, this one will be buried and forgotten, while the NDP props up the Liberal budget.

NDPP

Where is the Love for Horwath?

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/13/where-is-the-love-for-horwath

"The fact a motion aupporting Leader Andrea Horwath's conciliatory approach failed to pass at the Ontario New Democratic Party convention doesn't mean her grip on the party is slipping.."

Howard

NDPP wrote:

Where is the Love for Horwath?

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/13/where-is-the-love-for-horwath

"The fact a motion aupporting Leader Andrea Horwath's conciliatory approach failed to pass at the Ontario New Democratic Party convention doesn't mean her grip on the party is slipping.."

I'm starting to think that Ontario has one of the most left sections of the NDP. It is also one of the furthest sections from government. Next time the ONDP holds a convention, I hope they do it in Northern Ontario. At least in that part of the province, the party wins elections.

NorthReport

This is actually good - all Horwath has to do now is say no to McGuinty, and that she really wanted to support his budget but unfortunately her hands are tied by the convention decision.  Laughing

JeffWells

And surviving a leadership review with 76.4%:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/14/horwath-leadershi...

IMO that's not a comfortable margin for Horwath, especially after she returned the party to competitive strength in her first election.

 

Howard

That's a weak result. She did very well in her first campaign. Many of the new MPPs are very strong representatives. Party unity is not where it should be.

aka Mycroft

JeffWells wrote:

And surviving a leadership review with 76.4%:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/14/horwath-leadershi...

IMO that's not a comfortable margin for Horwath, especially after she returned the party to competitive strength in her first election.

 

Surprisingly low considering that the ONDP just had its best election result since 1990 and she actually got a lower level of support than Hudak's 78%, though still far from John Tory/Joe Clark territory. Of course, since this is the first time the ONDP has ever had a leadership review vote (it was brought in along with OMOV for leadership electiosn) there's no baseline to compare this result with. I suspect had this system been in place before, Hampton would have scored much worse on several occasions.

Still, along with the deferral of the motion endorsing Horwath's approach to negotiating with the Liberals, this may be a reflection of party unease (particularly labour unease) with the likely possibility that the NDP will give in and support the budget without getting anything substantial in return.

aka Mycroft

I also have to say it's rather disappointing that the NDP isn't even livestreaming this convention let alone have the resolution package available online.

aka Mycroft

Executive election results:

Pres.: Neethan Shan
Treasurer: Jacob Leibovitch
VPs: Susan Barclay, Barb Dolan, Rowena Santos, Taras Natyshak, Scott Piatkowski, Myles Sullivan

Anyone know the vote totals?

 

Life, the unive...

aka Mycroft wrote:

JeffWells wrote:

And surviving a leadership review with 76.4%:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/14/horwath-leadershi...

IMO that's not a comfortable margin for Horwath, especially after she returned the party to competitive strength in her first election.

 

Surprisingly low considering that the ONDP just had its best election result since 1990 and she actually got a lower level of support than Hudak's 78%, though still far from John Tory/Joe Clark territory. Of course, since this is the first time the ONDP has ever had a leadership review vote (it was brought in along with OMOV for leadership electiosn) there's no baseline to compare this result with. I suspect had this system been in place before, Hampton would have scored much worse on several occasions.

Still, along with the deferral of the motion endorsing Horwath's approach to negotiating with the Liberals, this may be a reflection of party unease (particularly labour unease) with the likely possibility that the NDP will give in and support the budget without getting anything substantial in return.

Uh that's not low, unless you are predisposed to want to already believe such things.   As leadership reviews go it is actually pretty healthy  and standard across most parties.  This isn't the rank and file at the Convention afterall.

aka Mycroft

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

 

Uh that's not low, unless you are predisposed to want to already believe such things.   As leadership reviews go it is actually pretty healthy  and standard across most parties.  This isn't the rank and file at the Convention afterall.

Not low in an absolute sense but low compared to what you'd expect in a party that had almost doubled its seat total and also low compared to what you usually get at a leadership review. By comparison Layton,  received 92% support in 2006 after the NDP had gone from 19 to 29 seats, Harper received 84% support in 2005 despite a disappointing election, even Carole James of the BC NDP received 84% support at a convention in November 2010, just months before she was forced out (as did Gordon Campbell at his last convention). In 1999, after a disappointing election performance and facing a determined "Dump Dalton" campaign, McGuinty received 81.1% support at his leadership review. I don't think Horwath is any trouble - anything over 70% is safe, but the fact that it's not higher does show some disquiet. I would have expected her to do better than Hudak's 78% for instance or the 77% support that Ed Stemlach received at his last convention and certainly better than McGuinty's 1999 score.

 

Skinny Dipper

I will agree with Martin Regg Cohn that Andrea Horwath and her fellow NDP MPPs will likely support the Liberals on the government's budget.  My one problem is that it will appear that the NDP will be in de-facto support to the Liberal's wage/salary freeze plan.  The NDP may be able to oppose any Liberal back-to-work legislation should any public sector union go on strike.  However, the Conservatives will likely support the government.  Essentially, the budget vote is the effective vote on wage/salary freezes.  Any future bill to legisate workers back will be mere window dressing.  Any NDP opposition will be meaningless.

Skinny Dipper

If the Ontario NDP supports the Liberal budget, it may win a phyric battle.  I can't spell phyric so maybe I should use phallic.  The NDP may win a guarantee or two in an amended Liberal budget.  Unfortunately, it will lose support of some of the union leadership whose unions may choose not to donate money to the party.  I do believe in Ontario, business and unions can still donate to political parties.

Life, the unive...

An awful lot of those unions went Liberal in the last election, especially the teachers unions.  The Catholic English teachers even garinsheed member wages specificly to campaign for the Liberals.  I don't think it is at all a forgone conclusion that there is that big a price to pay.  Those unions made their bed, I am not sure why it should be up to the NDP and eveyone else in the province to rescue them from it.

Life, the unive...

Here's something no one is talking about but I think might be a plausible explanation for the review number.  There are an awful lot of rural New Democrats heartsick by the party's energy policy in regards to the ramming through in our communities of industrial wind projects.  They could easliy have used the one avenue open to them to send a message about that.  Guess we'll never know.  

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Skinny Dipper wrote:

  However, the Conservatives will likely support the government. 

Hudak said he would vote against the budget even before it was released, and since then he has upheld that position.

Life, the unive...

I think SD meant on back to work/wage freeze legislation, not the actual budget.

NDPP

Horwath Hopes for Deal, Prepares for Election

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/705441--horwath-hopes-for-deal...

"...[Sid] Ryan was not alone in his distaste of the budget. 'That disgusting document was nothing more than Dalton McGuinty giving a slap in the face to every working person in this province,' Tyler Mackinnon of Etobicoke told delegates during a session on electing a new party executive.

Horwath said she wasn't surprised by Ryan's move, saying many are disappointed in the budget and would like to see 'as much change as we can possibly get,' She said, however, that she remains committed to making the minority government work, does not 'believe in drawing lines in the sand,' and believes she has put 'some pretty practical proposals' on the table.

'We know the people of Ontario sent us here with a job to do, which is to work together,' she said. 'That's why I'm trying to make the budget better and I'm going to do everything I can to make that happen.'..."

Brachina

Skinny Dipper wrote:

If the Ontario NDP supports the Liberal budget, it may win a phyric battle.  I can't spell phyric so maybe I should use phallic.  The NDP may win a guarantee or two in an amended Liberal budget.  Unfortunately, it will lose support of some of the union leadership whose unions may choose not to donate money to the party.  I do believe in Ontario, business and unions can still donate to political parties.

Phallic really isn't the word your looking for, phallic means penis, hehe. Pyrrhic victory is what your liking for. I usually don't correct the spelling of others as mine is so bad, but phallic victory was just a whole other level of wrong ;p

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Freedom 55 wrote:

I heard that they voted on a resolution to stop the freeze on welfare & increase taxes on the rich, which passed by the narrow margin of 218 to 208. Can anyone confirm this?

According to the Spectator article that NDPP posted above, the vote was 218-208 to defer consideration of a resolution "supporting Horwath and her demands in talks with the McGuinty government."

The paper says the resolution will come back again on Sunday morning for a vote.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

In the same Spectator article we read:

Quote:
Sid Ryan, the fiery president of the Ontario Federation of Labour, who is pushing for the NDP to demand more concessions from Premier Dalton McGuinty, says the OFL is ready to be a guarantor for some of the estimated $4 million or so the NDP would need to run a month-long campaign.

The Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) has also been mentioned as a co-signer of a bank loan.

Just as I said when the budget first came out, there are thousands of public service workers out there who would be willing to step up and contribute time and money to support an NDP election campaign if the party stuck up for them publicly and in its negotiations with McGuilty.

But Horwath is predictably committed to "making the minority government work", putting her in the same boat as McGuilty.

Doug

As for a wage freeze, I have a hard time thinking that an NDP government wouldn't be pushing a wage freeze under the present circumstances, especially if the alternative to restrain provincial spending is layoffs. Getting a small increase to social assistance rates is doable since public opinion is strongly in favour. Getting public executive salaries reduced is the same. Making the wage freeze go away? Not very popular and really makes a big dent in the budget plan since any increase happens across 900,000 salaries. It's the least likely thing to get so there isn't much sense in pushing it.

North Star

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Here's something no one is talking about but I think might be a plausible explanation for the review number.  There are an awful lot of rural New Democrats heartsick by the party's energy policy in regards to the ramming through in our communities of industrial wind projects.  They could easliy have used the one avenue open to them to send a message about that.  Guess we'll never know.  

As well as environmentalists pissed about the HST off home heating pledge.

And the unions are even more pissed. An establishment slate was run and now the OFL has no representation on exec for the first time in the history of the party. Even sitting MPPs were used to fill positions.

Life, the unive...

That's an amazing conclusion since, as I understand it, voting for exec positions continues this morning.   Great powers you must have.

 

And if they call themselves a social democrat and environmentalists they are niether if they oppose the HST off of home heating.  They are in fact about as superficial as the people who say IWTs are a-okay because the government used the term green energy.

janfromthebruce

North Star wrote:

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Here's something no one is talking about but I think might be a plausible explanation for the review number.  There are an awful lot of rural New Democrats heartsick by the party's energy policy in regards to the ramming through in our communities of industrial wind projects.  They could easliy have used the one avenue open to them to send a message about that.  Guess we'll never know.  

As well as environmentalists pissed about the HST off home heating pledge.

And the unions are even more pissed. An establishment slate was run and now the OFL has no representation on exec for the first time in the history of the party. Even sitting MPPs were used to fill positions.

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

 

And that was aweful. When I saw an MPPs name, I wondered.... Now I get it and it is just so wrong.

Doug

I oppose it on its own. If it's not paired with a tax exemption for measures to improve home energy efficiency - it gets tricky to define what should be included - it creates an incentive to go on wasting energy. Since the main concern is the impact on low-income people, that's who should receive a tax credit. As for wind energy we're kind of going to need that (and solar too!) on an industrial scale if it's going to displace carbon-emitting coal and gas generation, nevermind what happens if electric vehicles become popular.  The anti-wind people really do come across as rich people with country houses who are outraged that their view's been spoiled by their neighbour's windmills (nobody's forcing people to put them on their land). I don't suppose they want a conventional generating station or a nuclear station in their area either.

Life, the unive...

And here is why the NDP will never get enough seats to win government.  This snotty, urban, thick as fuck ignorance of rural people and rural Ontario is at the core of a lot of NDP problems.  The NDP keeps putting up these great rural candidates and then cutting them off at the knees.  If you can't win at least a few seats in rural Ontario you will never win a majority government, especially if you are trying to knock off incumbents to get to government.

 

ETA  And if this profound ignorance of who opposes mega-scale industrial wind projects is typical of the Toronto-centred NDP people no wonder their outreach and communication suck so badly.   This is a big issue in rural Ontario and they can't even get the damn players right.  For the record is is mostly the well off, absentee landowner who is fine and dandy putting up turbines by other peoples homes, not their own.  And if you think the only problem is sightlines you should come spend a few damn minutes living in the middle of these god forsaken things.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Doug wrote:

As for a wage freeze, I have a hard time thinking that an NDP government wouldn't be pushing a wage freeze under the present circumstances, especially if the alternative to restrain provincial spending is layoffs. Getting a small increase to social assistance rates is doable since public opinion is strongly in favour. Getting public executive salaries reduced is the same. Making the wage freeze go away? Not very popular and really makes a big dent in the budget plan since any increase happens across 900,000 salaries. It's the least likely thing to get so there isn't much sense in pushing it.

Yeah, you'd think like that if the idea of actually raising taxes on the rich is something that's completely off your radar. You'd construct dichotomies like EITHER wage freeze OR layoffs, without ever giving consideration to anything other than making the workers pay for the financial problems caused by the rich. 

900,000 salaries also represents 900,000 votes from unionized workers. Where you get the idea that freezing their salaries is a popular idea is a mystery to me.

Life, the unive...

Where you get the idea that they would vote NDP is a mystery to me as well.  You must have missed the Harris years when all kinds of unionized workers, including public sector ones, voted for Harris.

North Star

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

That's an amazing conclusion since, as I understand it, voting for exec positions continues this morning.   Great powers you must have.

 

And if they call themselves a social democrat and environmentalists they are niether if they oppose the HST off of home heating.  They are in fact about as superficial as the people who say IWTs are a-okay because the government used the term green energy.

I agree with you on the HST issue. 

There was a slate. it was not an official slate t's not how things are done but there was a whole team of people endorsing one another all around support for Neethan Shan. they all had identical lit design and button design. if you know how the party works you know it was a secret slate. 

Life, the unive...

Wasn't questioning the presence of a slate, or two, they exist in every political party and organization.  Nothing new there.  

Unionist

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

This snotty, urban, thick as fuck ignorance of rural people and rural Ontario is at the core of a lot of NDP problems.

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

You must have missed the Harris years when all kinds of unionized workers, including public sector ones, voted for Harris.

So much for the secret ballot.

 

Life, the unive...

Since you don't live in Ontario or drive around and see who had signs on their lawns I'm not sure what your issue is.  Other than you can't resist baiting others.

Unionist

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Since you don't live in Ontario or drive around and see who had signs on their lawns I'm not sure what your issue is.

Ok, I wasn't sure where you got your data, and it seemed like a slam against unionized workers and public sector workers, which sounded strange to me at a time when those unions are apparently offering to help bankroll an NDP campaign to defeat McGuinty, and at a time when the ONDP is considering voting for a budget which includes attacks on those workers. Pardon me if I misunderstood your intent.

So you're saying that unionized workers, including public sector workers, had Mike Harris signs in their lawns - and that's the basis of your statement?

 

Life, the unive...

I'm saying that life is rarely black and white and that people are complex animals who's decisions often make no rational sense.   So while many in union leadership and activists were strong defenders against the Harris cuts and actions, many of the rank and file people were not.  So there is no attack, just an acknowledgement that sometimes there is a disconnect between the top and the bottom in almost every organization.  Nor have I seen a single solitary comment by anyone in union leadership that they would bankroll a campaign.   Many in the public sector unions, particularly within teachers unions are dyed in the wool Liberals.   They did bankroll the Liberals last fall, including the intangibles like sending workers into campaigns.   I find it difficult to believe they have changed their spots nor has a single one of them with any ability to do it, said they would financially back a multi-million dollar campaign.  So this assumption that bringing the government down will suddenly lead to a massive groundswell of the kinds of support needed to run a modern campaign will magically materialize is fanciful at best.  You have some evidence that rank and file union members didn't vote for Harris?  

madmax

North Star wrote:
As well as environmentalists pissed about the HST off home heating pledge.

People concertned about the environment want to see emmisssions reduced. Eco Capitatist believe the market will fix it. Fools believe the HST on Home Heating will reduce emissions.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

You must have missed the Harris years when all kinds of unionized workers, including public sector ones, voted for Harris.

No, I didn't miss the Harris years. That was the blowback after Bob Rae had attacked public sector wages with "Rae Days".

I don't know how you imagine the public sector unionized workers of Ontario are going to reward the ONDP for voting to freeze their wages. No doubt you'll be surprised when Conservative signs appear on the lawns of public sector workers next election time. And you will curse them for being so ignorant as to turn their back on the NDP!

Skinny Dipper

One problem with the ONDP supporting the Liberal budget is that it means that all the parties in the legislature will be de-facto supporters of the wage and salary freezes.  It's much more than just freezes.  It's the loss of unionized members the right to negotiate a fair contract.  The government will impose a contract.  Unionized members will be denied the right to strike.  Andrea Horwath may complain about the Liberal government not being fair to public employees.  As I mentioned before, it will just be false rhetoric.  How could it affect potential NDP votes?  Since the NDP won't be seen as advocates for the public sector employees, voters will look at other personal priorities and look at what the different political parties offer them.  For example, the Conservatives could offer a 2% income tax reduction to replace a wage freeze.  What can the ONDP offer that will meet the specific needs of public service employees?

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