ONT NDP Leader Andrea Horwath will become Premier of Ontario 2

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Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

If it's Hudak trying to force an election call, I'd stay the hell away - he's toxic to me, and I'd rather see Horwath do the opposite of anything he suggests.

As I posted above in my link, Horwath explained that she can't force an election by herself anyway.

And, aligning with Hudak would be political suicide.

janfromthebruce

Alining with Hudak would be political suicide. Also Hudak has recently alined with Wynne in putting through some nasty legislation like the EllisDon motion to allow this one company to not have to hire union.

Since Hudak decided to get into bed with Wynne and play politics maybe he'd also like to play some more.

NorthReport

It's past time for the ONT NDP to cut its support for the never to be trusted Liberals

 

mark_alfred

Here's a transparency petition by the ONDP.

Brachina

NorthReport wrote:

It's past time for the ONT NDP to cut its support for the never to be trusted Liberals

 

 Andrea will do so when she feels its the right time.

Skinny Dipper

I think that the reality will be that Kathleen Wynne will cut her support for the NDP when she feels it's the right time.  I think next spring (either May or June), Wynne will seek a new mandate.  Her Liberals will be ready for an election.  The Ontario NDP will not be as ready.  Wynne also doesn't want to give Conservative Tim Hudak time to modify his message to Ontario voters to make himself more palatable (sp?) to voters.

Aristotleded24

Skinny Dipper wrote:
I think that the reality will be that Kathleen Wynne will cut her support for the NDP when she feels it's the right time.  I think next spring (either May or June), Wynne will seek a new mandate.  Her Liberals will be ready for an election.  The Ontario NDP will not be as ready.  Wynne also doesn't want to give Conservative Tim Hudak time to modify his message to Ontario voters to make himself more palatable (sp?) to voters.

Wynne, Howarth, and Hudak know that there is an election coming. They're playing hot potato with that prospect to avoid being blamed for when that does happen.

felixr

This is disappointing:

CBC News wrote:

Scarborough controversy

Horwath also addressed a months-old controversy within her party over the way the NDP candidate was chosen for the Aug. 1 byelection in the Toronto riding of Scarborough-Guildwood.  

Some New Democratic faithful — including party stalwart Joy Taylor, who had been with the NDP and its predecessor for nearly seven decades — alleged that people who weren't properly registered party members showed up for the nomination meeting and voted to give the nod to former Toronto city councillor Adam Giambrone.  

Taylor eventually quit the party over the process.

Horwath said Saturday that she "would only hope" that NDP members disaffected by the nomination contest will one day return to the fold.

"The work that they do is respected. We don't always agree on everything, but that's why we have these open party delegate debates and we allow people to have at the issues."

One of the riding associations should draft or move a motion of censure of the ONDP leadership at the next convention. This is not an apology, this is not making things right, members are either owed an explanation or a resignation/firing of people involved.

terrytowel

Tempers flared Saturday when NDP provincial council blocked an investigation into a July Scarborough-Guildwood nomination won by former Toronto councillor Adam Giambrone.

“You are all cowards,” said 90-year-old Joy Taylor, who along with other riding executive members has maintained that several ineligible members were allowed to vote, giving the two-person race to Giambrone, a last- minute entry.

Taylor, who tore up her provincial NDP membership in the summer after a lifetime of volunteering for the party, was barred from attending the provincial council, despite the fact, she says, that she has a lifetime federal NDP membership.

Looking tiny sitting on an overstuffed couch at the Sheraton Centre, Taylor appeared near tears. She remains convinced that the vote was rigged given she could not confirm the names or addresses of most of the last-minute voters.

“What I did in good faith as an honest member of the NDP has fallen by the wayside. It is swept under the carpet,” she said, adding she didn’t take on this fight for notoriety.

“I did it for the love of the party. . . . I can’t tell you how highly, highly disappointed I am. I weep today.”

Raghubeer said the only alternative left for his riding association is to get the issue on the agenda for next year’s party convention. But he fears there is a move afoot to kick him and other riding executive members out of the party before that happens.

The socialist caucus, which is not officially recognized by the NDP, later held a meeting to talk about other incidents where the party brass big-footed local nomination meetings.

“This is a massive betrayal,” Wendy Whittham, a member of the Scarborough-Guildwood riding executive, told the small gathering.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2013/10/26/ndp_provincial_council...

felixr

Yup. Andrea Horwath has completely lost any respect I had for her.

felixr

This is exactly the kind of thing that brings about a majority Harris (um..Hudak) government.

Stockholm

Actually this is exactly the kind of thing that no one cares about apart from halkf a dozen malcontents in Scarborough-Guildwood

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

Actually this is exactly the kind of thing that no one cares about apart from halkf a dozen malcontents in Scarborough-Guildwood

Stockholm, how can you say something like that. Joy Taylor is just sick about this. And to get booted out of an NDP meeting after devoting her entire life to not only the party, but the cause.

Where is your compassion?

 

Stockholm

Provincial council meetings of the NDP are only open to party members. If you "tear up" your membershuip - you also tear up your right to participate - tough!

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

Provincial council meetings of the NDP are only open to party members. If you "tear up" your membershuip - you also tear up your right to participate - tough!

That is cold.

Stockholm

You don't get any "special rights" in the NDP just because you happen to be 90 years old. If you want to be allowed into provincial council you have to be a party member. Period.

I don't know this woman personally, therefore her feelings are of no greater concern to me than are the feelings of any other individual among the 35,000 ONDP members

Skinny Dipper

I think Stockholm may be half right about people not caring about what happened (or didn't happen) in Scarborough-Guildwood. I don't think the general public will care.  I do think that the local membership in Scarborough will still care.  Will they campaign fully for the NDP in the next provincial election?

Do I think Andrea Horwath will be the next premier of Ontario.  In my opinion, no.  If Kathleen Wynne can differentiate herself from Dalton McGuinty, and if she can present a middle-of-the-road campaign platform for Ontario voters, I think she can get a majority.  I know you have read my comments about Ms. Horwath.  Personally, I find her to be perplexing.  I'm not sure if she is strongly for labour or indifferent to it.  I'm not sure if she is pro-transit or pro-car drivers.  I don't know what her campaign priorities will be other than complain that auto-insurance will have not gone down by 15%, and that she wants to bring in some accountability office (whatever that means).

Will I vote NDP in the next provincial election.? I don't think Ms. Horwath will mention anything about voting reform that includes anything about proportional representation.  That is my main test for supporting or not supporting a party.  I really don't care what the local candidate thinks as power resides in the premier's office.  Ms. Horwath is not making a case to convince me to support the NDP based on the issue of voting reform.  As for other issues, I have mentioned that she has been silent about teachers' rights since the legislature passed the anti-teacher Bill 115.  She may speak up about Bill 122.  However, I don't expect much from her.  She'll go silent again once Bill 122 is passed by the Liberals with likely Conservative support.  How does she want make Ontario a better place?  How will she improve the economic growth in Ontario, create meaningful jobs, and protect the environment at the same time?  What are her general thoughts about the health system and education of our children and young adults?  Then again, since she won't give active support for voting reform, she will not get my support or vote.  As bad as Tim Hudak could be, Andrea Horwath shouldn't expect me to support her party by default.  She still has to earn my support (which she hasn't, yet).

I do think that the Liberals will get a majority by taking way seats from both the Conservatives and the NDP.

Will I be voting in the next provincial election?  Probably not.

the grey

felixr wrote:

 

One of the riding associations should draft or move a motion of censure of the ONDP leadership at the next convention. This is not an apology, this is not making things right, members are either owed an explanation or a resignation/firing of people involved.

Provincial Council got an explanation, which was obviously an explanation that was acceptable to Provincial Council, since they affirmed the propriety of the nomination race:

Quote:

 “The Executive Committee has reviewed the Scarborough-Guildwood nomination meeting and is satisfied that the meeting was conducted fairly and in accordance with both the Ontario NDP Constitution and established Party practices and procedures. All those who voted were entitled to do so,” stated a motion overwhelmingly ratified by the delegates behind closed doors.

terrytowel wrote:

Taylor, who tore up her provincial NDP membership in the summer after a lifetime of volunteering for the party, was  barred from attending the provincial council, despite the fact, she  says, that she has a lifetime federal NDP membership.

There is no separation between provincial and federal membership.  When Taylor tore up her membership, she tore up her membership - she couldn't tear up her provincial membership while keeping her federal membership, then try to rely on federal membership to get into a provincial council meeting.  If she thought she could, she clearly doesn't understand how NDP memberships work ... which might explain why she thought something improper happened?

felixr

I thought campaign finance reforms changed the way federal and provincial sections worked. As for provincial council signing off, several of them or their peers are implicated in the improprieties alleged. Many more joined Giambrone for super-rallies to sweep the sludge under the rug. A pox on all houses.

janfromthebruce

One holds a membership provincially which gives one federal membership but there is not a separate membership provincially or federally. The other was financial and that's it.

And I thought that someone had posted all the links where Horwath and the ndp had spoken out against Reg 115? Where did that go?

Oh right, all links were posted here under Kathline Wynn's Secret Policy Advisor: Andrea Horwath in which mark_alfred

posted them

October 25, 2013 - 1:01am #15 Skinny Dipper wrote:

Andrea Horwath went silent immediately after Bill 115 was passed. 

Really?  link1 link2 link3 link4 link5

To once again to put out disinformation is sad really and with the same meme, repeated forever even when information is provided here in this forum which disputes it.

As to your main concern, overriding all others, including supporting unions right to bargain collectively, which is voting reform, the ONDP policy remains as adopted in 2002, and will not sunset:
"ONDP reaffirm its endorsement of a system of Proportional Representation for Ontario;
The proposed system of voting incorporate the following characteristics:
a) preservation of the traditional link between voter and MPP by keeping constituency seats;
b) two votes: one for a local constituency candidate and one for a Party's list of candidates;
c) party lists to be developed and applied at a regional rather than provincial level;
d) restoration and enhancement of democracy through the provision of additional seats in the Legislature;
e) additional seats to be filled from Party Lists so as to offset disproportionality between the constituency elections and the popular Party vote."

If you want this to be a "priority" for the next election than go to your local riding association and make a motion and get to council. The NDP has always had it on it's books, unlike the provincial liberals, but I am sure you know that. Just like you know that the only party to fight against reg 115 was the NDP, and the only party to fight against giving away union rights to one corporation is the NDP.

I'm quite disgusted that someone thinks it's just fine to have their union rights removed, have an imposed contract, and give lift to EllisDon to not have to use trade unionists as suspect. Oh, and think it's fine to waste 1.1 billion dollars in taxpayer money to buy 4 or 5 liberal seats.

That's money that could have gone to public education but instead public education gets "austerity forever".

janfromthebruce

So what is the problem with Bill 122? You didn't get into it but did a smear without providing any information. But I found this which seem related:

Group organizers voiced their support for the Bill 122 Ombudsman Amendment Act, introduced by NDP MPP France Gelinas. The bill would give the provincial ombudsman the power to investigate healthcare services, including long-term care homes.

NDP, Health Coalition at next LTC meeting

terrytowel

the grey wrote:

 

There is no separation between provincial and federal membership.  When Taylor tore up her membership, she tore up her membership - she couldn't tear up her provincial membership while keeping her federal membership, then try to rely on federal membership to get into a provincial council meeting.  If she thought she could, she clearly doesn't understand how NDP memberships work ... which might explain why she thought something improper happened?

So when you say she tore up her provincial membership, that voided her lifetime Federal NDP member? Doesn't lifetime mean for the rest of your life?

Unless you tear it up of course.

Poor Joy, why isn't there more compassion for this long time member of the NDP.

If only Jack Layton was still around., He know how to bring the two sides together, Rosario Marchese is the only NDP MPP who has given Joy the tine of day on this issue.

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

Poor Joy, why isn't there more compassion for this long time member of the NDP.

I believe this is what's known as sarcastic "crocodile tears".

janfromthebruce

When one buys a membership in one province but moves to another province, one must buy a new membership in province one moves to. If Joy wanted to attend provincial council and speak to the assembly, she needed to have her membership reinstated.

Having said that and also a reference to more compassion, Horwath did say this:

NDP Leader Andrea Horwath said she is aware some people continue to be unhappy.

“I would only hope that they can find their way back into being good New Democrat supporters and activists,” Horwath said.

“The work that they do is respected. We don’t always agree on everything but that’s why we have these . . . party delegate debates and we allow people to have at the issues and that’s what we did today,” she said.

Sure sounded like someone reaching out. Also Rosario would be working on behalf of the leader who works for all members of the NDP and would ensure that Rosario would be acting on her behave to try to resolve their concerns.

Personally I want Mulcair to focus on federal important issues and concerns.

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

I believe this is what's known as sarcastic "crocodile tears".

The woman has devoted her entire life to the NDP. Again I cannot belive the level of visceral to this woman.

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

The woman has devoted her entire life to the NDP.

...you must really hate her since you're such a staunch Liberal.

NorthReport

I having some trouble with my eyes. Maybe I need some lens solution before I debate her any more.

Stockholm wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

The woman has devoted her entire life to the NDP.

...you must really hate her since you're such a staunch Liberal.

NorthReport

Andrea's the boss, get it Paul!

And good on her for doing this, if true.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2013/10/28/ndps_horwath_shunts_mp...

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

The woman has devoted her entire life to the NDP.

...you must really hate her since you're such a staunch Liberal.

Who said I was a Liberal? As I've said many many times, I'm an Independent that has voted NDP, Liberal and Green in the past.

Joy Taylor says she owes "it to Tommy Douglas" to protest what she believes is the unfair nomination win in Scarborough-Guildwood.

“I’ve got to do this because it has got to stop . . . we don’t do this in my party. We would be no better than a third world country because we cheat on elections. I want to put a stop to it,” she said.

“I owe it to Tommy Douglas and my father who taught me socialism,”

 

Aristotleded24

Skinny Dipper wrote:
Do I think Andrea Horwath will be the next premier of Ontario.  In my opinion, no.  If Kathleen Wynne can differentiate herself from Dalton McGuinty, and if she can present a middle-of-the-road campaign platform for Ontario voters, I think she can get a majority.  I know you have read my comments about Ms. Horwath.  Personally, I find her to be perplexing.  I'm not sure if she is strongly for labour or indifferent to it.  I'm not sure if she is pro-transit or pro-car drivers.  I don't know what her campaign priorities will be other than complain that auto-insurance will have not gone down by 15%, and that she wants to bring in some accountability office (whatever that means).

Horwath might be Premier, and then again, she might not. Mathematically she still has a long way to go to the Premier's office, and there are any number of things that can happen. While I think NDP gains are a near certainty in the next election, the fact that Horwath has a small caucus and little experience will probably play against her. Again, will she become Premier? Maybe not, but she could very realistically become Oppositon Leader. Then other scenarios, such as Hudak winning and facing Horwath as an Opposition leader, are possible. Personally, it's this latter scenario that I hope plays itself out, simply because it gives the NDP time to properly prepare to be the government, rather than being suddenly thrown into the spotlight unprepared and struggling, to say nothing of then potentially dragging down the federal party. In other words, Bob Rae all over again.

jerrym

Andrea's popularity continues to help the NDP do well in the polls. An Ipsos poll released today found the Liberals party with 34%  (unchanged since May), the PCs at 31% (-3%), and the NDP 31% (+5%). The growth in popularity when combined with the fact that the NDP is the leading second choice of voters with 20%, compared to PCs and the Grits who are tied at 12% for the second choice of voters, is a good sign for possible future NDP growth. 

Andrea at 29% is close behind Wynne (33%) for best choice for Premier. 

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=6311

theleftyinvestor

I think at this point, regardless of the outcome, Ontario would be best served if the Legislature remains in a minority situation.

felixr

No let's make Adam Giambrone premier, he's grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

NorthReport

If a Liberal government doesn’t think it has a duty to look after developmentally disabled children, what exactly does it think it’s supposed to be there for?

- See more at: http://warrenkinsella.com/2013/12/if-a-liberal-government-doesnt-think-i...

 

mark_alfred

Site to give feedback on Ontario hydro rates here.

PrairieDemocrat15

mark_alfred wrote:

Site to give feedback on Ontario hydro rates here.

I'm glad Horwath and the ONDP are not afraid to attack private power and shine a light on Ontario's failed deregulation/partial privatization of hydro.

felixr
NorthReport

Andrea Horwath is going to do a good job as premier. 

Skinny Dipper

There is a risk by not advocating strongly for a living wage, Ms. Horwath will alienate ardent social democrats.  However, I do think that she will focus on a centralized election campaign where the ground support will not be needed as much from those pounding the pavement.  Compared to campaigns from 20 years ago, today's campaigns are leader and media focused.

The Ontario NDP has been quite strong in either winning by-elections or not letting the Liberals win many of them.  I think Ms. Horwath wants these new beach-heads for the NDP so that the party can be perceived to be the alternative to Tim Hudaks' scary Conservatives.

In the next election, I do expect Ms. Horwath to go after middle-class and older voters.  She may throw a few crumbs to marginalized groups.  However, I would not expect her to do anything that will alienate the middle class and older voters.

Aristotleded24

Skinny Dipper wrote:
In the next election, I do expect Ms. Horwath to go after middle-class and older voters.  She may throw a few crumbs to marginalized groups.  However, I would not expect her to do anything that will alienate the middle class and older voters.

Heck, even Gary Doer defended regular increases to the minimum wage that were implemented in Manitoba under his watch.

BrokenTel

Even though Ontario is my home province I do not pay half the attention I give to the federal political scene, at this point for me when there isn't an election Ontario politics is an afterthought at best. When I heard Horwath refusing to take a stand on the mimum wage I was really confused, but this article clears some air and gives me a little assurance.

The NDP's priority is to get elected. I'm fine with that, but I hope when it comes to forming policy that they stay true to their progressive roots. That they be prepared and willing to put up a fight to let the average person know that this is the right direction the province is going in, the right direction for the betterment of society, for the benefit of everyone.

theleftyinvestor

But her party, or at least the people in charge of its strategy, are operating from the premise that the last thing it will suffer from is the perception it’s too unambitious; that on the contrary, voters worry it wants to do too much.

Wait, I can her campaign slogan coming through right now. Change for the better, one practical step at a time.

No, wait... why does that sounds vaguely familiar and unsuccessful? Oh right, because I live in BC.

 

Aristotleded24

theleftyinvestor wrote:
But her party, or at least the people in charge of its strategy, are operating from the premise that the last thing it will suffer from is the perception it’s too unambitious; that on the contrary, voters worry it wants to do too much.

Wait, I can her campaign slogan coming through right now. Change for the better, one practical step at a time.

No, wait... why does that sounds vaguely familiar and unsuccessful? Oh right, because I live in BC.

No no no leftyinvestor, you are being far too pessimistic. Why, in BC the NDP was making major breakthroughs in by-elections, and thanks to that Premier Adrian Dix....

Oh, sorry, never mind. You were saying?

theleftyinvestor

It was really the central thesis of Dix's election campaign - that previous NDP governments here always did too much, passed too much legislation for the public service to implement it effectively. Hence he proposed an NDP government that would temper people's expectations and do less things but do them well. He also proposed a positive campaign that was positive to a fault, to the point that he never really managed to assert why the BC Liberals shouldn't get back into power. It really culminated in an election day where we were being asked to choose between the calculated mediocrity we knew and the purposeful mediocrity he offered.

That being said, we had a two-party system out here. The ONDP is in a position where they can grow and have a voice in the Legislature even when they don't take the top spot.

Stockholm

Aristotleded24 wrote:

No no no leftyinvestor, you are being far too pessimistic. Why, in BC the NDP was making major breakthroughs in by-elections, and thanks to that Premier Adrian Dix....

Oh, sorry, never mind. You were saying?

One big difference between Ontario and BC is that I think Andrea Horwath is much more personally likable and popular than Adrian Dix was...also she is operating in a three party system and what constitutes success for the the Ontario NDP would be gain 10 seats - no one expects them to take power.

Aristotleded24

theleftyinvestor wrote:
It was really the central thesis of Dix's election campaign - that previous NDP governments here always did too much, passed too much legislation for the public service to implement it effectively. Hence he proposed an NDP government that would temper people's expectations and do less things but do them well. He also proposed a positive campaign that was positive to a fault, to the point that he never really managed to assert why the BC Liberals shouldn't get back into power. It really culminated in an election day where we were being asked to choose between the calculated mediocrity we knew and the purposeful mediocrity he offered.

I think Naheed Nenshi's first campaign to become Calgary's Mayor actually dealt very well with this problem. Nenshi had several "better ideas," and under each idea he had a step-by-step plan as to how this was going to work. It was very easily understood by the average voter, but he also had good policy backgrounders on each topic that people could read if they wanted. I think that's a much more solid approach.

NorthReport

So is it time for Andrea to sink the Liberal ship now? 

After proping up the Liberals, the NDP does not usually do well in elections that follow.

Maybe it's time to pull the plug! 

Aristotleded24

NorthReport wrote:
So is it time for Andrea to sink the Liberal ship now?

Yup!

Brachina

http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/02/the-ten-mistakes-of-the-ontario-libera...

 

 The 10 mistakes of the OLP according to Warren Kinsella.

josh

Aristotleded24 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
So is it time for Andrea to sink the Liberal ship now?

Yup!

Depends on how much you're concerned that Ontario will become a "right-to-work" province.  Might be better to wait and gamble that internal dissent about Hudak's anti-union platform, and perhaps weakening poll numbers, will lead to a change in leadership.

 

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