ONT NDP Leader Andrea Horwath will become Premier of Ontario 2

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janfromthebruce

Agree with Pogo and SD here. It requires a party to have many resources to seek out and get non voters to the polls. One can tailor a platform to those individuals and they just won't vote. As for membership, there is only one membership for both provincial and federal, unlike other parties where one can hold a different membership federally and provincially.

As for Labour, what's interesting is that they may be pushing for 14 dollars an hour, and I agree, come election time, and they provide support strategically for the NDP and Liberals. So Horwath and the NDP may provide a platform that is everything they want, but turn around a support the Liberals to ensure the PCs don't win a particular riding. So what happen to all those ethical labour considerations? Note they don't give the Liberals such a hard time, and hold to that standard of social and economic justice. And the liberals even enforced a contract on education workers and didn't uphold collective bargaining.

Pogo Pogo's picture

epaulo13 wrote:

..it's not stupid when you consider what just took place in new york city elections.

eta:

..what your not addressing pogo is that the poverty groups and labour are saying what the ondp is offering is unacceptable. and the ondp is saying they are not accepting what the poverty groups and labour are proposing. this is a major split. and now a power struggle is emerging and it's no longer enough to say the libs and cons are worse. this is very healthy as i see it. lets see where this leads.

I am not addressing the minimum wage issue because I don't disagree.  The Ontario NDP is on the wrong side.  Personally, I think the NDP should first talk about a living wage and how the minimum wage fits into that discussion.  Yes increase the minimum wage, but also look at other costs such as housing, transit, pensions and education.

What gets me going and rushing off posts from work (misquotes and all) is the eagerness of the left to latch on to any flimsy evidence that justifies pushing politics to the left.  I have met a few politicians in my day and they are not all sold out to the system.  If they believed they could get to power on a far left platform they would.

 

Brachina

http://ontariondp.com/en/100rebate

 

 Here's a better link about what I was talking about. Note the ONDP is saying at least a 100$ rebate, the other article makes it sound like its capped at a 100, it is not.

Unionist

Brachina wrote:

http://ontariondp.com/en/100rebate

 

 Here's a better link about what I was talking about. Note the ONDP is saying at least a 100$ rebate, the other article makes it sound like its capped at a 100, it is not.

Um, no, that's not what the link says at all. Read it again. Does this mean you may actually criticize the ONDP once you realize the rebate is, in fact, $100?

This rebate is a bad idea. Really really bad. If Horwath had the slightest bit of nerve or principle, she might at least say: "Maybe it's time to have a single public Hydro company. You know, like we used to have." I'm just an outsider. Québec did that in the 1960s, as part of the Quiet Revolution, when René Lévesque was still the Liberal minister of natural resources. Think Ontario might have a look at that? Or is that too ultra-left-wing Bolshevik for the pollsters and focus groups?

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Pogo wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

..it's not stupid when you consider what just took place in new york city elections.

eta:

..what your not addressing pogo is that the poverty groups and labour are saying what the ondp is offering is unacceptable. and the ondp is saying they are not accepting what the poverty groups and labour are proposing. this is a major split. and now a power struggle is emerging and it's no longer enough to say the libs and cons are worse. this is very healthy as i see it. lets see where this leads.

I am not addressing the minimum wage issue because I don't disagree.  The Ontario NDP is on the wrong side.  Personally, I think the NDP should first talk about a living wage and how the minimum wage fits into that discussion.  Yes increase the minimum wage, but also look at other costs such as housing, transit, pensions and education.

What gets me going and rushing off posts from work (misquotes and all) is the eagerness of the left to latch on to any flimsy evidence that justifies pushing politics to the left.  I have met a few politicians in my day and they are not all sold out to the system.  If they believed they could get to power on a far left platform they would.

pogo

..first off i don’t understand your references to the left. you use it like a hammer. that it is something bad. meanwhile the ndp considers itself left. the document you criticized was from someone inside the ondp. whether you agree or not there are many folk who see the benefits of a participatory society. and this is what i believe is the issue here. the demands from the poverty/unions groups go beyond the raising minimum wage. have another look at the list it produced. they are demanding a say..a seat at the table and this was rejected by the ndp who feel they know best.

..there is a legitimate concern with the ndp moving to the so called center. the word center is vague but to me it means acceptance of the protocols such as trade deals, economic dominance by banks and corps, the reduction of the commons, cutbacks that will never be returned and which is a part of the greater austerity agenda. the ndp have no plans to change those structures that are fucking people over big time. the idea that the ndp can protect us from those ravages is a myth. they neither have the strength to negotiate meaningful change let alone have those powers bend to their will. there needs to be a better way of governing our future and the more people involved in making those decisions (i’m not talking about marking an x on a ballot) the more chance we have of figuring something out before were in so deep that we will never emerge. and today, how the world is changing, that is a real possibility.

youngsocialist

Neoliberal ideology is how the discussion is usually framed in the mainstream media. The idea that we need to be balanced in our approach is flawed. The problem is that we're not prepared for the shitstorm of attacks if the NDP were to come out of something truly progressive. We will be shot down with bad economics of how the party will bring massive deficits, huge taxes, loss of jobs, loss of businesses and the apocolapse. Then again, we already are attacked with those arguments!

I want the party to come out in favour of progressive ideas, but we're stuck in this trap. The NDP needs to defend progressive ideas, otherwise they're just confirming the idea that they're not possible.

mark_alfred

http://ontariondp.com/en/100rebate

I love it.  It has a real Robin Hood feel to it.  Great stuff.

mark_alfred

Andrea is on Newstalk 1010 now:  http://player.newstalk1010.com/ until 2PM.

onlinediscountanvils

mark_alfred wrote:
http://ontariondp.com/en/100rebate

I love it.  It has a real Robin Hood feel to it.  Great stuff.

Yes... for generations, children have been captivated by the thrilling tales of Robin Hood and his daring exploits to rob from the rich and give to the "middle class families".

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

If Horwath had the slightest bit of nerve or principle, she might at least say: "Maybe it's time to have a single public Hydro company. You know, like we used to have."

The proposal does say,

Quote:
Cap executive pay and cut down on waste and duplication by merging Ontario’s hydro agencies

which suggests to me having a single public Hydro company.

Aristotleded24

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:
http://ontariondp.com/en/100rebate

I love it.  It has a real Robin Hood feel to it.  Great stuff.

Yes... for generations, children have been captivated by the thrilling tales of Robin Hood and his daring exploits to rob from the rich and give to the "middle class families".

LOL!

Brachina

 The rebate is not just for middle class families, but the poor benifit as well.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Epaulo, I use the 'left' as a way of categorizing those who consistently and across issues agitate for the NDP platform to be further to the left. 

For me that is expending energy in the wrong area.  It is not to hector the NDP into taking stances that they clearly believe (rightly or wrongly) are risking their electoral chances.  It is more to spend that energy in the community changing the views of the voters.  Once the voters change direction, the politicians will fall all over themselves to lead the parade. 

In Richmond I can point to a few local issues where we have done this.  It can be done.

 

Brachina
Brachina

Pogo wrote:

Epaulo, I use the 'left' as a way of categorizing those who consistently and across issues agitate for the NDP platform to be further to the left. 

For me that is expending energy in the wrong area.  It is not to hector the NDP into taking stances that they clearly believe (rightly or wrongly) are risking their electoral chances.  It is more to spend that energy in the community changing the views of the voters.  Once the voters change direction, the politicians will fall all over themselves to lead the parade. 

In Richmond I can point to a few local issues where we have done this.  It can be done.

 

 Bingo, home run, + 1,000,000.

 

The NDP is filled with Progressives, but they are limited by what they precieve as what they can sell to the electorate. So the smart move is to till the soil as it were so that the public is both ready and hungery for a shift left, there are many examples of this. The role of the NDP is to pass progressive legislation, its our job to create the enviroment and opportunities within the public for them to do that and still win elections.

janfromthebruce

Brachina wrote:

Pogo wrote:

Epaulo, I use the 'left' as a way of categorizing those who consistently and across issues agitate for the NDP platform to be further to the left. 

For me that is expending energy in the wrong area.  It is not to hector the NDP into taking stances that they clearly believe (rightly or wrongly) are risking their electoral chances.  It is more to spend that energy in the community changing the views of the voters.  Once the voters change direction, the politicians will fall all over themselves to lead the parade. 

In Richmond I can point to a few local issues where we have done this.  It can be done.

 

 Bingo, home run, + 1,000,000.

 

The NDP is filled with Progressives, but they are limited by what they precieve as what they can sell to the electorate. So the smart move is to till the soil as it were so that the public is both ready and hungery for a shift left, there are many examples of this. The role of the NDP is to pass progressive legislation, its our job to create the enviroment and opportunities within the public for them to do that and still win elections.

exactly.

theleftyinvestor

An individual who has mutual friends with me posted publicly on Facebook last night:

Got a fundraising call from ONDP today. I explained all the reasons I'm not giving the party any money right now, like the weird obsession with small business owners, being flimsy on the minimum wage, and hanging Amarjeet [ONDP would-be candidate until Giambrone parachuted in] out to dry. The guy on the phone said "Well that's three strikes, I guess", and he didn't even try to argue with me. He said he's been hearing it a lot.

One reply was from Judy Rebick (named b/c she's known on Rabble): I'm not even sure I can bring myself to vote for them I'm so fed up. Would be great if everyone would do what you did Audra and maybe they'd listen

Another reply: I sent back the fundraising letter/form that I got in advance of the by-elections with my own amendments (and no cheque): To their "Yes, I will support the ONDP..." I added "When you support the call for a $14/hr minimum wage". There wasn't room on the form for more. Next time I'll try to write smaller.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Ontario NDP Waging War on Public Investment

Public transit remains a crucial policy issue for the province of Ontario, but it is not clear that citizens will get good solutions any time soon. Investment in public transit is expensive, often requires raising taxes and can get bogged down in the nitty-gritty politics of neighbourhood planning, not to mention partisan competition.

In 2007, the government of Ontario tried to turn over province-wide planning for public transit to an arms-length agency, Metrolinx, in part to take the politics out of the issue. Its plan, The Big Move, is the result of years of study, planning and consultation. But its fate is questionable.

Because the Progressive Conservatives have effectively boycotted the political negotiations that characterize minority parliaments, the Ontario NDP and Liberals are currently driving policy and politics in Ontario.

Sadly, the negotiations between these two parties appear to have signed the death warrant for the desperately-needed investment strategy in public transit that Metrolinx has developed. If the Big Move didn't die this week, it is on life support. And if it goes, so does Hamilton's B-Line Light Rail Transit (LRT) plan.

Revenue Tools Rejected

In a March 10 interview with Hamilton Spectator columnist Andrew Dreschel, Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath left the impression that she favoured increasing corporate taxes to pay for increased investment in public transit in Ontario, particularly for the Big Move. But by March 12, Dreschel published a correction to his column, noting that the party currently does not support raising corporate tax rates, but rather just favours closing some corporate tax loopholes.

On March 13, the Globe and Mail reported that Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne had rejected the proposal to increase the HST or the gas tax to invest in transit.

These two developments mean that the Big Move – and Hamilton's LRT – are nearly dead in the near term. The second wave of transit projects in the Metrolinx development strategy is ambitious and had a cost associated with it of roughly $2-billion per year. The proposed list of tools to pay for this is in table 1. The current political status of each is also listed. $2-billion is needed to fund the projects and more than $1.5-billion of that is now gone....

http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/950.php

mark_alfred

Eliminating tax loopholes has always been a policy of the NDP, both provincial and federal.  It's a good policy.  And from their 2011 platform it stated, "We will ensure our corporate tax rate stays below US levels but when our corporate tax rate is already much lower than the US we need to focus on smarter priorities."  IE, there's room to raise the rate.  On page 44 the table states, "Restore general corporate tax rate" (aka raise corporate taxes) as a revenue tool and clearly shows increased revenue from this.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Well I guess the Left Caucus needs to be told to change their name.

Brachina

 Last time the NDP ran on raising Corporate taxes, it needs those revenues not just closed loopholes. I pray that Andrea hasn't lost her mind and cut herself off from the resources she needs. I guess we will see when the budget comes down.

Aristotleded24

No no no, NDP critics don't understand. The people who swing the elections are middle class, and they won't be persuaded by talk about poverty or transit. You need to appeal to them, and create programs and platforms that cater to their interests, even if it comes at the expense of the working class. This is the only way to success, just look at the current popularity of NDP governments in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia.

Oh wait....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Pogo wrote:

Epaulo, I use the 'left' as a way of categorizing those who consistently and across issues agitate for the NDP platform to be further to the left. 

For me that is expending energy in the wrong area.  It is not to hector the NDP into taking stances that they clearly believe (rightly or wrongly) are risking their electoral chances.  It is more to spend that energy in the community changing the views of the voters.  Once the voters change direction, the politicians will fall all over themselves to lead the parade. 

In Richmond I can point to a few local issues where we have done this.  It can be done.

..maybe your use of "left" only makes sense if your sitting at home trying to sort this out for yourself. but your not. your on a discussion board and it is one your well aware of. it is neither accurate nor helpful in understanding what is going on in ontario or any other place for that matter.

..this kind of labeling has been used over and over again to marginalize people. to divide and even to demonize. how does that respond to the overwhelmingly supported demands from the antipoverty groups for a better deal from all politicos? are they just to be written off as “left”? their demands are based on life experiences not political leanings. and clearly they do not see the ndp as supporting them no matter how it is spun.

..watch the demo on the 22nd. watch the fightback building in ontario. don’t just suggest what the ndp will/can do if they come to power..that's speculation. what they say right now matters. maybe the resistance will force politics to change a little. 

edit

Brachina

 I'll withold Judgement until I see Andrea's demands for the budget, but I better see something worth voting for. I'll keep an Open mind till then.

Pogo Pogo's picture

What gets me is people continually asking a zebra to change its stripes.  The NDP is going to develope policy based on three main metrics: 1) how much it makes it electable, 2) how palatable it is to people/organizations that it counts on for help, 3) How important it is to key players, or often how much they understand it.

Clearly Poverty issues are getting the short end of the stick.  The answer is to work on these three areas.  Standing around and saying the damn NDP makes me so mad is only going to go so far.  What I admire about Epaulo is that in addition to bemoaning the NDP he is active in groups that are working to raise the issue. 

I would suggest that babble look up Seth Klein and get him to write an article on the Living Wage.  He has done some great work on the issue, both with government and also with businesses.  What we need is for people to be more informed on the issue (across the spectrum).

onlinediscountanvils

Pogo wrote:
Standing around and saying the damn NDP makes me so mad is only going to go so far.

The NDP doesn't really make me mad. They're pretty much what I expect them to be. Explaining why I feel they're unworthy of support isn't the same thing as being mad at them.

mark_alfred

"unworthy of support" usually translates into "strategic voting for the Liberals".  For me, I figure the NDP are not perfect, but they're the best of the lot.  Anyone who thinks it's strategic to vote Liberal is truly forgetting a lot.  OCAP had a good rally at the Liberal 'Heritage' Dinner recently.  The article highlights just a few of the Liberal's betrayals of the poor over the years.  Worth reading to remember.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

"unworthy of support" usually translates into "strategic voting for the Liberals". 

Everyone who doesn't support the NDP is shilling for the Liberals. Right, mark?

Quote:
The article highlights just a few of the Liberal's betrayals of the poor over the years.

Criticizing the Liberals is shilling for the Tories. Right?

Sorry - that's what happens when instead of dealing with people's arguments and life experiences and expressed concerns, you try to fit them into a narrow-minded frame that you can understand.

 

mark_alfred

The Liberals and Tories are the same entity, in my eyes.  If you criticize Pepsi as an unworthy drink, you're also criticizing Coke.  Orange juice is another matter.  An orange wave is what's needed.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

The Liberals and Tories are the same entity, in my eyes.

I would put the NDP in the same equation. They are all parties of the status quo, in a very fundamental and quasi-religious sense. Just look at them having communal orgasms over Israel, or the current thugs in charge in Kyiv - or look at their often virtually indistinguishable policies once they get into government. (Notable exception: Harperite Conservatism, which is a diabolical departure from all previous regimes, mostly in its frenzied hurry to undo anything decent about the country.)

Yet, even though they're all the "same entity", I don't condemn people who (very very correctly) say: "Tim Hudak is worse than Kathleen Wynne"; or: "Stephen Harper was worse than Paul Martin"; or "Jack Layton was better than Tom Mulcair". I don't see them as shills or enemies. I see them as telling the plain simple obvious truth, which people must discuss and debate and come to terms with.

I withdrew my membership in the NDP decades ago, for reasons which are mostly (but not all, thankfully) still in place - and other new reasons have arisen since which have confirmed the great wisdom of my youthful whim. When Ontarian posters in this thread say they can't support the ONDP any more - and they provide the clear plain reasons motivating their decision - I applaud their decision.

I know, for a fact, that the NDP doesn't listen to its uncritical supporters. Maybe - just maybe - it'll listen to the uncomfortably growing ranks of its ex-supporters.

 

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

"unworthy of support" usually translates into "strategic voting for the Liberals". 

Criticizing the Liberals is shilling for the Tories. Right?

Wrong.  And that's the incorrect mind-set of those who advocate for strategic voting.  People should vote for the party that best (and maybe not perfectly, but best) represents their interests.  For the wealthy with corporate interests, that would be either the Liberals or the Conservatives.  For the rest, that would be the NDP.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

"unworthy of support" usually translates into "strategic voting for the Liberals". 

Criticizing the Liberals is shilling for the Tories. Right?

Wrong.  And that's the incorrect mind-set of those who advocate for strategic voting.  People should vote for the party that best (and maybe not perfectly, but best) represents their interests.  For the wealthy with corporate interests, that would be either the Liberals or the Conservatives.  For the rest, that would be the NDP.

You connected my answer to a different part of your post. Wanna review and try again?

mark_alfred

I'll leave dissecting posts to you, Unionist.

My opinion is that encouraging people to be hypercritical of the NDP does not serve progressive politics well.  It usually results in so-called strategic voting, which just gets us the same-old same-old.  Again, it's worth remembering some of the Liberal policies over the years.  Kudos to OCAP for their actions on this.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

I'll leave dissecting posts to you, Unionist.

It was a simple request. If you want to quote me, do it accurately in context. Thanks.

Quote:
My opinion is that encouraging people to be hypercritical of the NDP does not serve progressive politics well.  It usually results in so-called strategic voting, which just gets us the same-old same-old.  Again, it's worth remembering some of the Liberal policies over the years.  

You've obviously never lived under several terms of NDP government (as I have) - so I fully understand that you might base your aversion to "hypercriticism" on their platform, rather than on what they actually do once in power. Although one would have supposed that Bob Rae's glorious reign would have dampened those illusions somewhat.

As for "encouraging people to be hypercritical of the NDP" - it is the NDP which does that, when (as Horwath is now doing) they pander to the better-off sections of society in the ultimately futile hope of not only replacing, but becoming, the Liberals.

 

mark_alfred

Places like Quebec or BC or Manitoba that have had more social democratic gov'ts in power over the years are far more progressive than is deep dark Ontario, regardless of any misgivings that some from those places may have about those gov'ts.  I'll take the NDP in Ontario any day over the Liberals or the Conservatives.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

I'll take the NDP in Ontario any day over the Liberals or the Conservatives.

Ok - but would you take the Liberals over the Conservatives, if it came down to that? Don't mean to bug you - just trying to understand your logic.

 

mark_alfred

Fortunately we don't have a two party system here.  I'm against strategic voting.  So no, I'd vote for neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals.

onlinediscountanvils

mark_alfred wrote:
"unworthy of support" usually translates into "strategic voting for the Liberals".  For me, I figure the NDP are not perfect, but they're the best of the lot.  Anyone who thinks it's strategic to vote Liberal is truly forgetting a lot.  OCAP had a good rally at the Liberal 'Heritage' Dinner recently.

No, that's not at all what I mean. Since becoming eligible to vote, I've cast ballots for 5 different parties, but have never voted Liberal.

It warms the cockles of my heart to see OCAP getting some love on babble, as it's a group I have supported and worked with for the better part of two decades. But don't mistake OCAP's criticism of the Liberals as an endorsement of the NDP by default.

[url=http://ocap.ca/files/history%20of%20ocap.pdf]A Short History of OCAP[/url]

The emergence of OCAP coincided with the election of an NDP Government. This posed major difficulties for us in that the climate became tough for an organization that wanted to take a strong stand. The backsliding of the Rae Government away from its promises to raise welfare rates above the poverty line and ‘end the need for food banks’ created a lot of confusion and demoralization. For quite some time, people were unclear on how to confront a Government that they had expected and hoped would offer them more than the Liberals and Tories. Resources to carry on our work were very hard to come by and our base of activity was largely confined to Toronto. We held demonstrations at NDP gatherings and gradually, as Rae’s measures grew ever more right wing, found a stronger level of support for resisting the Government. We worked with the Street Peoples’ Organization to put up a tent city of the homeless at Queen’s Park. We hounded Government Ministers and challenged the freeze they imposed on welfare rates. We played a major role in convincing them not to actually cut welfare rates. We pressed forward as best we could but it was a tough period to work in.

It was during the Rae years that OCAP first took up in a serious fashion the Direct Action Casework that has played such an important role in its development. We began bringing mass delegations into welfare offices and taking similar actions. People began to turn to us as an organization that could make a difference in their lives and act to defend families under attack.

Over the years, OCAP's principled refusal to pull their punches when it came to criticizing the NDP has cost them a lot in terms of financial and political support from people who expected them to act as attack dogs for the NDP. Anyone who thinks OCAP is anywhere close to being in alignment with Horwath's NDP simply hasn't been paying attention to what OCAP is saying.

As we head into another round of provincial elections in the spring, we will not be swayed by fake gestures and empty rhetoric from any politicians.

We're going to march on the Convention to demand from all parties:

·Raise OW and ODSP 55% to restore the spending power lost since 1995!

·Provide a $14 an hour minimum wage fully indexed to inflation!

·Fully restore the Special Diet and Community Start Up Benefits!

·No merger of OW and ODSP, stop the attack on Disability benefits!

http://ocap.ca/node/1137

Aristotleded24

Onto the issues with the Ontario NDP, it sounds more as if Horwath is receiving bad advice and has bad advisors around her than an issue with Horwath herself. She seemed to start out pretty good.

Unionist

Yeah, I like Harper too, but that Nigel Wright really shafted him.

Honestly A24, any party that's about its leader needs to self-destruct and rebuild.

 

Skinny Dipper

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Onto the issues with the Ontario NDP, it sounds more as if Horwath is receiving bad advice and has bad advisors around her than an issue with Horwath herself. She seemed to start out pretty good.

Whether she is receiving bad advice or just following her own instincts, it's very difficult to figure out what Andrea Horwath wants for Ontario.  More specifically, what kind of Ontario does she want?  We know that she wants lower auto insurance rates and some accountability office.  We know that she wants to give tax credits to businesses that create jobs.  Those are policies.  However, they could not be described as being part of a vision statement for Ontario.  If they are, I would suggest to Ms. Horwath that there is more to Ontario than auto insurance and an accountability office.

Society in Ontario is changing.  There are less unionized jobs in manufacturing.  Even though unionized workers have never voted en masse for the NDP, they did vote for the party in greater numbers than the general population did.  With the decline of unionized manufacturing labour, the Ontario NDP needs to seek a new voting bloc.  Call it "the middle class."  It's a mysterious group that lives in the nether-regions of Ontario.  Its members may care about the environment and poor people by showing their affection by pressing the "like" button on Facebook.  However, we won't see them at demonstrations on Queen's Park to support lower-income people and the environment.  The "middle class" people are voters whereas lower-income people tend not to vote.  For Andrea Horwath's NDP, a dollar spent campaigning to win support of the middle class will have better marginal gains than spending that same dollar trying to convince non-voting lower income people to vote for the NDP.  Can Andrea Horwath afford to lose the support of OCAP supporters?  She can if the Ontario NDP can convince two middle-class Ontarians to vote for the NDP instead.

If Andrea Horwath wants to attract the support of middle class Ontarians, she needs to present her vision statement for them.  If she choses not to, then Kathleen Wynne will present Ms. Horwath's lack of vision statement instead.

Brachina

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpo...

 

 This ia basically an NDP idea and honestly barring something really horrible I can't see how the NDP could vote against a budget that includes this. Wynn is trying to out NDP Andrea Horwath and honestly it may end up forcing Andrea to the left or risk losing some of her base. Wynn for all her faults is smarter then any other liberal leader in recent memory. It likely won't save her, too many scandals, too much patronage pork, but this is a smart move and the only hope she has.

Stockholm

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Onto the issues with the Ontario NDP, it sounds more as if Horwath is receiving bad advice and has bad advisors around her than an issue with Horwath herself. She seemed to start out pretty good.

How is it "bad advice" if whatever she is doing has led to NDP wins in unlikely places like Kitchener-Waterloo, London West and Niagara Falls?

Brachina

 Good point, but I do believe there is room for improvement, especially in regards to dealing with the base and perhaps more effort in Toronto.

mark_alfred

Brachina wrote:

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpo...

 

 This ia basically an NDP idea and honestly barring something really horrible I can't see how the NDP could vote against a budget that includes this. Wynn is trying to out NDP Andrea Horwath and honestly it may end up forcing Andrea to the left or risk losing some of her base. Wynn for all her faults is smarter then any other liberal leader in recent memory. It likely won't save her, too many scandals, too much patronage pork, but this is a smart move and the only hope she has.

It's bizarre how the Toronto Star today had this article as front page news:  Kathleen Wynne says Liberals won’t bend to NDP on budget.  Despite the headline, much of what the Liberals have announced recently, like relying more on progressive taxation rather than regressive user fees and flat taxes, is NDP policy.  The announcement that the Libs won't "bend to NDP" is simply false bravado.  I'm glad the NDP are wielding some power here.  The Star cartoonist got it right:

mark_alfred

To digress for a second, there was good mainstream media coverage of the OCAP rally against the Liberal's cuts to social services: 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/video/video-protesters-rally-against-onta...

To digress for another second, there's a courtcase, and likely a noon-time rally, in defence of healthcare for injured migrant workers tomorrow.  Two injured migrant workers were given the right to receive care for their injuries, but the stinking Ontario government is appealing this.  I'm going to go.  link

mark_alfred

Ontario NDP's important work and initiatives, in this case by Jonah Schein, is being recognized by students: Provincial NDP look to bring much needed regulation to unpaid internships.

Brachina
mark_alfred

Petition to support NDP MPP Cindy Forster's Bill 82, Residential Tenancies Amendment Act (Rules Relating to Rent Increases), 2013.  

Jonah Schein wrote:
A loophole in the Residential Tenancies Act in Ontario allows landlords to raise your rent by any amount if your apartment or condo was built after 1991. This loophole means we have a two-tier rental market in Ontario where some tenants have fewer rights than other tenants. This isn’t fair.

Skinny Dipper

As I watched and listened to TVO's "The Agenda," the general topic seemed to be about political parties and the role of citizens in relation to the parties.  Over the past 30 years, the number of people who are members of the different parties has declined.  Many constituency associations are shells compared to what they were like many years ago.  Political campaigns are highly leader-centric and are focused on maintaining the loyalty of hardcore supporters by raising money from them, and then reaching out for that extra ten to 20 percent of voters that will give a leader and his/her political party a majority in a legislature or parliament.  The name of the game for political parties is not to present policies in order to make society better.  It is to win in a game of political hardball.  Stephen Harper knows this, and he does generally well with this strategy.  Other political leaders are catching on.

Provincially, Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath knows that she has to play political hardball if she wants to win against Kathleen Wynne and Tim Hudak.  The days of the NDP being the conscience of a legislature or parliament are fading.  Even though her party holds the balance of power, each political party is now constantly campaigning for the next election.  Each party wants to win.  In Ms. Horwath's case, she talks about labour rights when she attends labour conventions.  However, Ms. Horwath avoids talk about labour rights when she speaks to the general public.  Instead, she focuses on boutique issues like lower auto insurance rates and a new accountability office in order to attract that extra ten to 20 percent of voters.  She doesn't speak about issues that matter to supporters of OCAP because it's likely that those supporters are not donating money to the Ontario NDP campaign.  People may volunteer in a local campaign.  However, most local campaigns may influence about five percent of the vote.  The leaders and central party organizations influence the other 95 percent.  A donation to a central party is much more effective than volunteering in a local campaign.  A donation can help a party buy a media spot in order to reach a large but targetted audience.  Local campaigns tend to reach large audiences, but their effects are weak.

I think that the new reality is that even when Andrea Horwath no longer leads the Ontario NDP, the next leader will opt for a similar strategy to win power like Stephen Harper has done.  Seek donations from the loyal base; have key boutique polities that will attract the extra ten to 20 percent of voters.  Run centralized perpetual campaigns.

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