Ontario 2018 Election Results & Discussion

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NorthReport
NorthReport

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Debater

Ken Burch wrote:

Cody87 wrote:

Debater wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

If you had to choose one riding as a bellweather riding which one would it be?

Ottawa Centre?

Orleans.

It has voted the way of the winning party for the past 2 decades, both provincially and federally.

Peterborough has since 1977. And I bet it will tonight as well.

Orleans ended up voting OLP...Ottawa Centre voted ONDP.

 

Yes, Orleans bucked the provincial trend and stayed Liberal.

That was partially because of the strong local popularity of Marie-France Lalonde.

John Fraser was able to do the same thing in Ottawa South.

And Ottawa-Vanier stayed Liberal as expected.

Kathleen Wynne (Don Valley West), Micheal Coteau (Don Valley East), Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North) & Mitzie Hunter (Scarborough-Guildwood) were also able to hang on based on their strong local followings.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

SocialJustice101 wrote:

How much was the NDP official opposition able to achieve federally 2011-2015? 

They faced a majority government, and as has been repeatedly shown, some sort of official pledge by the NDP at the start of the 2011 campaign to not try to gain seats would not have prevented a Harper majority.  Everyone who voted Con in 2011 knowing the NDP was close behind in the last two weeks would STILL have done so if the Liberals had stayed ahead of the NDP in those last two weeks.  

Nobody is happy that Ford's coming into power, but there's no scenario in which that would have been prevented if only the NDP had promised not to try and move past the Liberals.  And it's bullshit to ascribe voter swings to the ONDP to homophobia.  The voters who made that swing did so because the preferred the ONDP program to the OLP program-not because Horwath isn't gay. 

Debater

Ken, I agree that the Liberals wouldn't have been able to win this Ontario Election with Wynne as leader -- that's not the ONDP's fault.  It was obvious for some time that the Liberals were too far behind to challenge the PC's this time.

And it's also true that Ontarians chose Wynne to be the first woman Premier of Ontario and the first gay premier, so that's not what was behind the Wynne collapse.  I think Wynne hurt herself by having a bad attitude towards ethical scandals (eg. the Sudbury by-election, the gas plants, etc.).  Plus, the decision to sell Hydro One damaged her credibility with progressive voters.

However, SocialJustice101 is correct that the ONDP failed to beat Ford tonight.  And the Layton NDP failed to beat Harper in 2011.  So the fact remains that NDP parties do often struggle to beat Conservatives (except in some of the Western provinces).  In both Ontario and at the National level, the NDP has not yet been able to demonstrate that it can beat the Conservatives.  And that remains the challenge going forward.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Left Turn wrote:

progressive17 wrote:
4. Because Ford didn't say he would do much, he does not have to do much to be able to get the Mike Harris reputation of "He did what he said what he would do", even if he made them swallow razor blades.

One of Ford's big promises is to fire the CEO of Hydro One. I don't know how he can do this since Hydro One is now privatized.

The Government of Ontario still owns 47% of Hydro 1 (TSX:H), with each 1% being worth about $100m. If Ford were to buy 3.01% of the shares back for Ontario at that rate, he would have majority control of the company. Then he could do whatever he wanted.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Debater,

you forgot that Bob Rae defeated the Conservatives and won a majority government in 1990.

 The NDP won an election in Nova Scotia. 

Please quit downplaying the successes of the NDP. You're not doing yourself any favors.

josh

NorthReport wrote:

Andrea did an amazin job 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4255960/ontario-election-ndp-campaign/

Really?  Given where they were in the polls two weeks ago, the results have to be a disappointment for the NDP.  Less than 34% when they were at or pushing 40 is not a great result.

Misfit Misfit's picture

I watched Doug Ford's victory speech and he looked hammered. He stumbled through simple words.

The Fords can talk all they want about Renata  having addiction issues. From what I saw tonight during his speech I think he has issues of his own that he needs  to worry about.

 

josh

As for polling, looks like EKOS, Forum and Mainstreet, all IVR pollsters, came close to nailing it.  Online pollsters did not fare as well.

josh

Misfit wrote:

I watched Doug Ford's victory speech and he looked hammered. He stumbled othrough simple words.

The Fords can talk all they want about Renate  having addiction issues. From what I saw tonight during his speech I think he has issues of his own to worry about.

 

Doubt he’ll make it through the four years.  If corruption doesn’t get him, personal issues will.

lagatta4

That whole crime family is deeply screwed up.

Does anyone think he will actually privatise the LCBO? That is such a source of revenue for the Ontario govenment.

Or lower the price of gasoline? Sounds bizarre.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

If the Conservatives cut the revenues, it gives them more justification to cut spending. This right-wing policy is called "starve the beast." It also allows for decertification of the LCBO locals of the union, and hence less potential political pressure on the Conservatives.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Yes he will privatize the LCBO. 

 And yes he will lower the provincial tax on gasoline  or even eliminate it. So to make up for lost revenue he will have to privatize some of the highways or radically raise the provincial tax on the poor.

I think that Mike Harris was nothing compared to what we're going to witness now in Ontario.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Oh and as for the end of the Liberal party, parish the idea. Bay Street supports two political parties in Canada: the Conservatives, and the Liberals. Bay Street  and the MSM will do everything in their power to subsidize the liberals. 

if the NDP can lose party status and gain it back in the next election and without the support  of the media and the financial sector just think with the liberals can do  with big money and big media backing them all the way. 

this Liberal doom and gloom saga is quite laughable.

Misfit Misfit's picture

And Debator,

in another generation and the baby boomers are gone and this new millennial generation matures, The NDP will be having to stay in power.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

By the way, it was the Peterson Liberal government that Bob Rae defeated in 1990.

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

We are now witnessing the usual Liberal behaviour when they get crushed They start flailing about looking for anyone but themselves to blame 

The NDP doubled their number of seats and the Liberals were so decimated they didn’t even get party status

In the Legislature for the next 4 years the Liberals will have the same status as the one Green. My hunch is that the Greens could do better than the Liberals in the next Ontario election

Some people don't look at politics and society through the lens of a political party. They put the interest of society ahead of the interest of a political party.

Todrick of Chat...

The only political party that came to my house before the election was the local conservative candidate. He stopped by twice over a three-week period. I think part of the problem is local candidates are not getting out enough with the average voters (non-political junkies). I don’t think any of the party leaders came to my riding at all.

I did notice all the party leaders were focused on urban Ontario (GTA, Ottawa) during the final week(s) of the election. Maybe some of the parties did poorly because they didn’t support rural areas as much as they should have.

It was an interesting election for sure, the next four years will be interesting. 

 

josh

progressive17 wrote:

If the Conservatives cut the revenues, it gives them more justification to cut spending. This right-wing policy is called "starve the beast."

Yep.  That's been their strategy in North America and the UK for some 40 years. 

Ciabatta2

jerrym wrote:

jerrym wrote:

Ciabatta2 wrote:

This is the worst result for the NDP.  If Horwath can't beat Ford, if the NDP can't win ridings like Kenora and Brant and Sarnia and Scarborough-Rouge River now, when will they?

No the worst result for a party was that of the Liberals in every way. Actually the worse result is for the people of Ontario. It's revealing that you don't talk about the latter. 

No, it's quite advantageous for the Liberals.  They survived and they have the best boogeyman to campaign against. They have the (sadly, accurate) narrative that electing the NDP got Ontario the PCs.  They'll have a tired leader in Horwath whose time was now, not four years from now.  They'll have the "evidence" of all of the bad things that Ford will do, and they'll all have been on the NDP's watch as opposition.  Where are the federal NDP now?  Mark my words, the NDP will spend the whole next election campaigning to hold back the Liberals, and will be back to third in at most two cycles if not one.

Don't get me wrong.  The PCs were getting elected no matter what.  But this exact result is the NDP's worst outcome.

Facing the most unpopular leader in almost ever and the most inappropriate and unqualified and polarizing leader ever the NDP couldn't win the 905, central Ontario, the east or the southwest.  They couldn't win Cambridge and the environs of Kitchener.  They couldn't even win faux rural ridings like Sarnia and Brant and Chatham-Kent-Leamington where most of the population lives in working class cities!  They barely won that seat in Thunder Bay and still lost the second one.  And what is the media covering?  NDP supporters cheering, Andrea saying stuff about change for the better, all in the face of Doug Ford winning a crushing majority.

Think it's going to be easier next time?  Nope.  Disaster.

 

Caissa

My wife suggested that I rip up my Ontario birth certificate.

NorthReport

As usual Liberals are in denial about their self-inflicted disaster. The Liberals brought it on themselves with their elitism, arrogance and deceit. The Liberal comments here following their shitkicking  last nite says it all. 

 

josh

Your Liberal obsession is really getting kind of creepy. 

NorthReport

Actually josh what's disturbing is that after being thoroughly decimated last nite, Liberals show zero contritness, and have spent the time both before and since since we knew Doug Ford had won, flinging dung on what turned out to be a very successful Horvath-led NDP campaign. So please spare us more of your nonsense.

brookmere

progressive17 wrote:

Like after the Trump election, there should be a pop on the Toronto Stock Exchange as the 1% also rub their hands in glee.
The financial markets appear to have a better grip on reality than the Ontario electorate.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/market-news/article-at-the-open-tsx-dips-weighed-down-by-financials/

NorthReport

Voters bring a door-slamming end to Liberal rule

 

Shunned by about four out of five Ontario voters, Premier Kathleen Wynne’s Liberals ended the night in near oblivion, imploding from majority rule to single-digit seats in the Legislature.

You trowed da bums out with resounding unity, painting blue and orange throughout what was for a generation a blanket of Ontario red.

The historic shellacking stripped the Liberals of official party status, meaning they now will have to rebuild without the staff funding and other privileges that come with the threshold of eight or more seats.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/06/07/voters-bring-a-door-s...

Unionist

So, a cursory glance at the results indicates that Ford owes his win, and his majority, to the GTA. Can anyone confirm that this is the case?

josh

Unionist wrote:

So, a cursory glance at the results indicates that Ford owes his win, and his majority, to the GTA. Can anyone confirm that this is the case?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-ontario-election-results-1.4697447

 

Pogo Pogo's picture

Each party can throw out their spin.  The Liberals will say that the NDP cannot beat the Conservatives - even though polls of a binary NDP/PC choice show the NDP winning easily.  The NDP will say that they made great strides and came close to winning, and that the Liberals are toast - however the Liberals are far from toast and have shown ability to recover quickly.

In the end success will come to the party that earns it.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Debater wrote:

Ken, I agree that the Liberals wouldn't have been able to win this Ontario Election with Wynne as leader -- that's not the ONDP's fault.  It was obvious for some time that the Liberals were too far behind to challenge the PC's this time.

And it's also true that Ontarians chose Wynne to be the first woman Premier of Ontario and the first gay premier, so that's not what was behind the Wynne collapse.  I think Wynne hurt herself by having a bad attitude towards ethical scandals (eg. the Sudbury by-election, the gas plants, etc.).  Plus, the decision to sell Hydro One damaged her credibility with progressive voters.

However, SocialJustice101 is correct that the ONDP failed to beat Ford tonight.  And the Layton NDP failed to beat Harper in 2011.  So the fact remains that NDP parties do often struggle to beat Conservatives (except in some of the Western provinces).  In both Ontario and at the National level, the NDP has not yet been able to demonstrate that it can beat the Conservatives.  And that remains the challenge going forward.

Agreed that it's a challenge.   My objection to that post was its seeming implication that, due to the fact that it has had trouble winning elections federally and in Ontario, the NDP shouldn't TRY to win elections federall and in Ontario(that it should, apparently, "know its place" and only try for power in B.C., Saskatchewan and Manitoba, ceding the rest of the country to the Liberals as if it's that party's liege right or something.

I'd argue that not only the Liberals couldn't have won this under Wynne this year, they probably couldn't have won it under ANY possible alternative to Wynne-especially an alternative to Wynne's right.

The ONDP didn't win, but it's not the ONDP's fault that the PC's did.  The PC's had been likely to win for the last two years, and if anything the ONDP made a far closer run of it than the OLP could have.  Can anybody imagine the OLP running only seven points behind the PC's in this cycle?

I've sounded intemperate in discussions of Ontario because they're have been so many smears directed towards both the ONDP AND ONDP voters...it was implied that the ONDP pandered to homophobia, that Ford was ahead because of ONDP voters(which was a veiled accusation that the ONDP was somehow a haven for bigots), that the ONDP was preventing the OLP from stopping the PC's(when in fact that OLP could never have done that), and that the ONDP only gained votes from the OLP because the ONDP's leader happened to be heterosexual.

Week after week of bullshit statements like those kept appearing.

It was simply impossible to leave the unchallenged.

The PC's won because the PC's won.  It would not have been prevented by having the ONDP vote not increase.

 

JKR

josh wrote:

Your Liberal obsession is really getting kind of creepy. 

Getting?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Ontario’s 2018 Election: Pessimism Today, Strategic Organizing Tomorrow

quote:

There has been a surge of left-activist support for the NDP this time out which has been predicated on both ABC tactical considerations (an understandable if short-term impulse) and frankly inaccurate assessments that the NDP has made a dramatic 'return' to the 'Left'. But the weak broth of the NDP platform, complete with its purely token call for tax rises on the rich (1.5% corporate, 2% on those making more than $300k, leaving rates still near historic lows) and tepid pretenses to expand social provision, is well to the right of the actually social democratic platform Bob Rae campaigned on in 1990. Lest we forget, little more than 6 months ago, the NDP was running over to the Bastards of Commerce to repeat their right wing legislative committee attacks on the Liberal’s minimum wage/labour standards Bill 148, saying the move towards a $15 minimum wage was too fast and that rich business owners needed time and tax cuts (‘offsets’) to afford a move towards a living wage.

Which brings us to the question of what to expect in the aftermath of tonight's electoral shit-fest:

1) Regardless of the voting outcome, the corporate rich will continue to drive the agenda of government. They have the debate mega-phones (conventional media still rules the regressive 'marketplace of ideas'), the allegiance of Ministry bureaucrats who play a decisive role in the affairs and actions of the state and the fealty of all established parties who are dedicated to the global competitive position of the corrupt cartels which dominate the economy. There simply is no effective working class counter-balance to the multiple dimensions of corporate power as labour organizations have less interest than ever in developing independent democratic politics.

quote:

Here is some food for thought towards how we might take on the dystopic present being reconfirmed in this election campaign:

B) Develop campaigns around key themes of importance to the working majority. For example, opposing health and education cuts, tax-the-rich, workplace safety/challenging the loathsome WSIB and expanding annual paid-holidays. These campaigns should have a flexible plan with a clear timeline to include activities like the petitioning of F4$15 but also be anchored by speaking tours to intrude upon the corporate monopoly over public debate and encourage local initiative and on-going organization.

C) Local organization should include the building of opposition caucuses at all levels of labour and the creation of workplace and neighbourhood committees. These organizations should combine an open-ended commitment to the long-term interests of the working majority with a sharp focus on key issues of interest to the locale of the organization itself.

D) Local organizations should be encouraged to 'combine' by 'industrial' sector (e.g. education, health, retail services, manufacturing, etc.), regionally and, eventually, province-wide to facilitate the sharing of lessons, resources and in coordinating democratic action.

E) New left wing networks are needed to complement popular organizations of the working majority with a focus on long-term strategic planning towards independent democratic action in politics. I think we should be flexible and open-minded about how these networks come about, e.g. whether they are new initiatives or the coming together of existing left wing groups, but we do need a clear and firm sense of association requirements (e.g. programmatic agreement, dues, plus effective activity within the network’s organization) and what they are tasked to do in the short, medium and long-term.

..and more

 

Sean in Ottawa

So a couple observations

1) Don't get too invested in the idea that the NDP will win next time. This is unlikely. The reason is that the Liberals always have an easier time beating the NDP in a run against a conservative government. It is extremely rare that the NDP makes inroads when the government is Conservative. To do so the Liberals have to put up a dud as leader. A real dud. This is the campaign strategy of the Liberals. You can hope for once in a while but the opportunity lost this time was actually better than the one the NDP will have next time.

2) We might want to look at the real long-time losers of this election. Yes we know the Conservatives will take a wrecking ball to most of what people here value. But there is a bigger loser here. Ford has proven that accountability is no longer going to involve a costed platform before an election from the right. This is a loss in all Canadian jurisdictions. The Conservatives will not have costed promises to defend and can win on a blank cheque platform. Ultimately this may be the biggest cost / loss of this election. It is a change that will persist long after the Conservatives are chucked out in 4 or 8 or more years from now. That not providing a costed platform is now acceptable, the very purpose and function of elections has been compromised. This will probably in hostory be remembered as Ford's first Trump like disruptor move as leader. You can expect more. and, when you think about it, you know what to expect from someone who is not just right wing but also has disdain for the functions of a democratic process like an election.

Sean in Ottawa

JKR wrote:
josh wrote:

Your Liberal obsession is really getting kind of creepy. 

Getting?

As much as I do not consider a replacement of the Liberals with the Conservatives to be neutral, there is an obvious rationale to this position. And it is not really an obsession. The people angry with the Liberals are also proponents of proportional representation. It means they fully understand that the Liberals are the in-the-way party when it comes to prospects for the NDP.

The Liberals whether you accept them as right or left campaign on the left.

There are only two possible outcomes here:

1) Parity in the political process -- the same number of parties campaigning from the right as from the left (not the 3-1 we have now including the Greens)

2) Proportional representation

This is not an obsession -- even if you do not agree with all the statements --  this is a recognition of the basic dynamic of the FPTP system. To win the NDP has to beat the Liberals and Greens right out of contention. to win the Conservatives only have to beat the biggest one.

The Liberals as a middle party have to hold the NDP to about 1/5 and beat the Conservatives.

The Liberals do have a harder time in this system than the Conservatives and to make up for it they need some charismatic leader and a fake platform -- which they often provide. The Conservatives help by stinking up the place when they get power and letting their radicals run amok.

This is the uncomfortable reality.

SocialJustice101

Ok, but if the NDP is to win under the FPTP system, they'll have to make inroads in the traditionally Lib-Con 905 area, and other suburbs througout the country.   If the NDP moderate themselves to attract those voters, won't they essentially become Liberals?   Was it all worth it just for a name change??   All of those con majorities for Harper and Ford?

bekayne

Sean in Ottawa

SocialJustice101 wrote:

Ok, but if the NDP is to win under the FPTP system, they'll have to make inroads in the traditionally Lib-Con 905 area, and other suburbs througout the country.   If the NDP moderate themselves to attract those voters, won't they essentially become Liberals?   Was it all worth it just for a name change??   All of those con majorities for Harper and Ford?

You clearly do not get it.

The parties have three different faces:

1) What they stand for at their core

2) What they campaign on

3) What they actually do

The Liberals are centre right in the first and third. The NDP  Are to the left in the first and usually the second.

The Liberals do the least they can on the third -- just enough to get elected. The NDP do the most they can trying not to get defeated.

The NDP also affects the calculations the Liberals make -- and the Trudeau Liberals for example were forced to the left by the NDP surge in 2011. It is not as if all that was for nothing. True they are breaking many promises but the expectations they ran on was ground only an NDP threat would have created.

Yes, they look similar at times but no they are not.

All parties make calculations and compromises (as well as mistakes) based on what they can convince the voters to support but they come from very different histories and agendas.

As well it is not helpful when people on the right suggest the NDP and Liberals are the same nor when those on the left say the same about the Liberals and Conservatives. Each will for political expediency look at times like the other but that is not the reality. If they were the same they would merge much more easily given that success is easier when you do.

Now provincially where the the third party actually disapears the ground of that party is taken up by other parties which is natural since that is where their supporters and activists go. However, even then it does not make the result the same. The different history and outlook will always keep them apart to some degree.

Debater

Misfit wrote:

Debater,

you forgot that Bob Rae defeated the Conservatives and won a majority government in 1990.

 The NDP won an election in Nova Scotia. 

Please quit downplaying the successes of the NDP. You're not doing yourself any favors.

 

Yes, Bob Rae won once in 1990.

And yes, the NDP won Nova Scotia once.

This is a valid point.

But there are some similarities here to the 2011 Federal Election that the NDP needs to be cautious about.

In the 2011 Federal Election, progressives were excited that the NDP had an orange wave and beat the Bloc Quebecois.  BUT, the downside was that the Harper Conservatives won a Majority.

This hurt the NDP in the 2015 Election because progressives didn't want the Harper Conservatives to win again, so they coalesced behind the Trudeau Liberals.

Although the Horwath NDP is now the progressive alternative to the Ford Conservatives, if Horwath doesn't demonstrate that the NDP can actually beat Ford next time, she could go the way of Tom Mulcair.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Debater wrote:

Misfit wrote:

Debater,

you forgot that Bob Rae defeated the Conservatives and won a majority government in 1990.

 The NDP won an election in Nova Scotia. 

Please quit downplaying the successes of the NDP. You're not doing yourself any favors.

 

Yes, Bob Rae won once in 1990.

And yes, the NDP won Nova Scotia once.

This is a valid point.

But there are some similarities here to the 2011 Federal Election that the NDP needs to be cautious about.

In the 2011 Federal Election, progressives were excited that the NDP had an orange wave and beat the Bloc Quebecois.  BUT, the downside was that the Harper Conservatives won a Majority.

This hurt the NDP in the 2015 Election because progressives didn't want the Harper Conservatives to win again, so they coalesced behind the Trudeau Liberals.

Although the Horwath NDP is now the progressive alternative to the Ford Conservatives, if Horwath doesn't demonstrate that the NDP can actually beat Ford next time, she could go the way of Tom Mulcair.

There are major differences between Andrea and the federal NDP leaders she's going to be compared to:

1)Unlike Mulcair, she seems to be a good listener and open to new ideas(the more left platform gave the part far more votes and seats than the past anti-left "Toronto is evil" platforms)

2)Unlike Jack, Andrea seems to be in excellent health.

As to Quebec, it wouldn't have helped the cause of beating the Cons for the NDP to NOT make a breakthrough.  There weren't many ridings-if there were any at all-in which it would have been a better anti-Harper vote for the Bloc MP to be re-elected, and there were essentially none where the only electable candidates were the Bloc candidate, the LPC candidate, OR the Con candidate.

Harper's majority was almost exclusively a product of Ignatieff's absolute failure as a leader and of the LPC refusal to accept the "coalition" idea.

And Ford isn't going to be stopped by the OLP spending the next four years arguing that the ONDP has no right to be the Official Opposition.

Here's what an actual, legitimate "strategic voting" arrangement would look like:

1) Nobody participating in the arrangement would try to take seats currently held by the other parties involved;

2) Right before the election, all parties participating in the arrangement would do a poll of all PC ridings;

3) Each party would agree to support whichever party's candidate was seen as the most likely to beat the PC candidate in that riding;

4) There would be a commitment from each party to do all that it could to get ITS voters, in ridings where its candidate would not be making an effort to win, to push for the agreed-upon candidate;

5) Once the provincial legislature or federal parliament elected on this agreement was seated, the FIRST legislation introduced and passed would be a bill establishing proportional representation for the next election, WHENEVER that election was to be held.

THAT would be a legitimate arrangement, an arrangement that treated all parties involved with respect and with, as the Northern Irish peace process phrased it "parity of esteem".

That proposal would be actual strategic voting.
Simply demanding that everybody vote for the Liberal Party candidate, as "strategic voting" is usually arranged in practice, is not.

Are you willing to accept that for strategic voting to be valid, it needs to be as binding as possible on ALL parties involved, and must never treat any one party as automatically "entitled" to all the "strategic votes"?

 

NorthReport

How many additional seats, if the Liberal support have gone to the NDP to block Ford, would the NDP have taken away from the PCs? Enough to swing the election is my hunch! That is why Liberals are ones responsible for allowing Doug Ford to win.

josh

Negative ads apparently took their toll on the NDP.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LyleGreg/status/1004949596290809858

NorthReport

But, by not supporting the one party who had a chance to defeat Doug Ford, the Liberals made Doug Ford the Premier. 

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

How many additional seats, if the Liberal support have gone to the NDP to block Ford, would the NDP have taken away from the PCs? Enough to swing the election is my hunch! That is why Liberals are ones responsible for allowing Doug Ford to win.

I hate this logic and it is the same crap used against the NDP. It is one thing to call out hypocrisy it is another to introduce more of it.

Paladin1

NorthReport wrote:

But, by not supporting the one party who had a chance to defeat Doug Ford, the Liberals made Doug Ford the Premier

 

Ontario voters made Doug Ford the premier.

He wasn't my vote for Conservative leader but a pinapple would be a better premier than Wynne at this point, so, good.

We'll see if it was a right or wrong choice over the next 4 years.  Hopefully the NDP work with the PC's to fix Ontario and not against them at every turn.

Sean in Ottawa

Paladin1 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

But, by not supporting the one party who had a chance to defeat Doug Ford, the Liberals made Doug Ford the Premier

 

Ontario voters made Doug Ford the premier.

He wasn't my vote for Conservative leader but a pinapple would be a better premier than Wynne at this point, so, good.

We'll see if it was a right or wrong choice over the next 4 years.  Hopefully the NDP work with the PC's to fix Ontario and not against them at every turn.

Ha. What a joke. I know you are conservative and all but the point is that cooperation works from two sides. Suggesting that it is the responsibility of the weaker party without any power and positions totally opposite the stronger power to be responsible for the realtionship makes it clear how biased you are in judgment.

You post back on this next time Ford puts up any compromise and seeks sincerely NDP support adn negotiates with them.

With this majority -- not only will I not hold my breath -- I will even continue eating.

NorthReport
Paladin1

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Ha. What a joke. I know you are conservative and all but the point is that cooperation works from two sides. Suggesting that it is the responsibility of the weaker party without any power and positions totally opposite the stronger power to be responsible for the realtionship makes it clear how biased you are in judgment.

You post back on this next time Ford puts up any compromise and seeks sincerely NDP support adn negotiates with them.

With this majority -- not only will I not hold my breath -- I will even continue eating.

I considered NDP and Libertarian but wasn't sold on them.

Traditionally I find the opposition pecks away at and counterminds everything the majority party does. By all means hold the PCs accoutable and call them on bullshit decisions but don't countermind eveything for the sake of it.

I hope Ford and the PCs work WITH the NDP and include them in trying to make Ontario better and repair the damage the Liberals did ovber the last 15 years.

I'm glad you're continuing to eat. You may even find more money in your pocket for groceries with the PCs in power.

 

josh

NorthReport wrote:

But, by not supporting the one party who had a chance to defeat Doug Ford, the Liberals made Doug Ford the Premier. 

Still waiting for your answer,

josh

Paladin1 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

But, by not supporting the one party who had a chance to defeat Doug Ford, the Liberals made Doug Ford the Premier

 

Ontario voters made Doug Ford the premier.

He wasn't my vote for Conservative leader but a pinapple would be a better premier than Wynne at this point, so, good.

We'll see if it was a right or wrong choice over the next 4 years.  Hopefully the NDP work with the PC's to fix Ontario and not against them at every turn.

The Cons have a clear majority.  Why do they the NDP’s support.

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