Ontario Election June 7, 2018

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SocialJustice101

Whichever party (Lib/NDP) has the best chance of beating the Cons will always have my support.    But the Cons are vicious and well-organized.    I'm just very skeptical about the NDP having broad enough appeal and organization to defeat them.    The cards were stacked against the Liberals in this election.   (Wynne should have stepped down last year, instead of contesting the election.) But unfortunately, the NDP couldn't really step-up to the role of a credible opposition to the Cons.   Horwath was not exactly the most passionate campaigner and was not aggressive enough against Ford.   And unfortunately, suburbanites still remember the "Rae days."

NorthReport

dp

NorthReport

As we can see it does not take Liberals long to trot out their revisionist history. The Liberal denial is suffocating There is one main reason why Ford won and that is because Liberals would not rally to support Horwath to block Ford. For that the people of Ontario will now pay the price

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

As we can see it does not take Liberals long to trot out their revisionist history. The Liberal denial is suffocating There is one main reason why Ford won and that is because Liberals would not rally to support Horwath to block Ford. For that the people of Ontario will now pay the price

Would you ever rally to support Trudeau to block Scheer?

SocialJustice101

JKR wrote:
NorthReport wrote:

As we can see it does not take Liberals long to trot out their revisionist history. The Liberal denial is suffocating There is one main reason why Ford won and that is because Liberals would not rally to support Horwath to block Ford. For that the people of Ontario will now pay the price

Would you ever rally to support Trudeau to block Scheer?

I get the feeling that NorthReport would prefer a permanent con majority with an NDP official opposition, as long as he can gloat at a Liberal collapse.   It's a strange fetish, unless you're a Con supporter.

josh

Yeah, I kind of get that feeling too.  Waiting to see if he answers JKR's question.

bekayne

josh wrote:

Yeah, I kind of get that feeling too.  Waiting to see if he answers JKR's question.

Don't hold your breath.

Sean in Ottawa

As a supporter of PR, I would want the Liberals who did get almost 1 in 5 Ontarians to support them to have party status. That may be unpopular here but is is consistent with what I believe about reform of the electoral system. I would want Andrea Horwath to support this publicly and clearly given the NDP position on PR.

I say this having never supported a Liberal party in my life.

NorthReport

It's up to Doug Ford to decide now.

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

It's up to Doug Ford to decide now.

I think it is an opportunity for the NDP to show that it walks the walk on PR.

It would earn Horwath respect from people she may ask support from in 4 years as well.

NorthReport

Voter turnout in Ontario election strongest since 1999

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/voter-turnout-in-ontario-election-stronges...

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

It's up to Doug Ford to decide now.

If the NDP wanted to be brilliant Horwath could say that she would fully endorse party status for the Liberals and even given them a question once in a while in exchange for an absolute committment from the Liberals to support PR.

Even if the Liberals break the promise - let there be a cost to them. For the NDP let the party be consistent in support for PR.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

It's up to Doug Ford to decide now.

If the NDP wanted to be brilliant Horwath could say that she would fully endorse party status for the Liberals and even given them a question once in a while in exchange for an absolute committment from the Liberals to support PR.

Even if the Liberals break the promise - let there be a cost to them. For the NDP let the party be consistent in support for PR.

That is an excellent idea.

SocialJustice101

In Quebec, all opposition parties signed an electoral reform agreement, promising to implement PR after the next election.    We need the same in Ontario and federally.  (I hope Trudeau changes his view on PR, considering the Ontario situation.)

Paladin1

SocialJustice101 wrote:

Whichever party (Lib/NDP) has the best chance of beating the Cons will always have my support.    But the Cons are vicious and well-organized.    I'm just very skeptical about the NDP having broad enough appeal and organization to defeat them.    The cards were stacked against the Liberals in this election.   (Wynne should have stepped down last year, instead of contesting the election.) But unfortunately, the NDP couldn't really step-up to the role of a credible opposition to the Cons.   Horwath was not exactly the most passionate campaigner and was not aggressive enough against Ford.   And unfortunately, suburbanites still remember the "Rae days."

So you would vote Liberal or NDP regardless of that their platform was soley due to the fact they're not conservative?

 

SocialJustice101

I keep an open mind, but so far I have not seen a single acceptable conservative politician.    There's always an aura of negativity around right-wing politicians.

brookmere

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
If the NDP wanted to be brilliant Horwath could say that she would fully endorse party status for the Liberals and even given them a question once in a while in exchange for an absolute committment from the Liberals to support PR.

As it happens, I saw Horwath on TV today saying she would not take a position on party status for the Liberals and the matter is entirely up to Doug Ford. Which I think is the correct and honest thing to say, since Ford doesn't care what she thinks either way.

gadar

SocialJustice101 wrote:

JKR wrote:
NorthReport wrote:

As we can see it does not take Liberals long to trot out their revisionist history. The Liberal denial is suffocating There is one main reason why Ford won and that is because Liberals would not rally to support Horwath to block Ford. For that the people of Ontario will now pay the price

Would you ever rally to support Trudeau to block Scheer?

I get the feeling that NorthReport would prefer a permanent con majority with an NDP official opposition, as long as he can gloat at a Liberal collapse.   It's a strange fetish, unless you're a Con supporter.

And if NDP beats the Cons they will be called Liberal and it will be back to getting the new "Liberals" to lose.

The end result has to be, as often quoted around here Paul Wells wrote, "Right side up".

NorthReport

Not saying they should not be given party status but Liberals might want to reflect back on the way they treated the NDP when they were in a similar situation, eh!

Sean in Ottawa

brookmere wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
If the NDP wanted to be brilliant Horwath could say that she would fully endorse party status for the Liberals and even given them a question once in a while in exchange for an absolute committment from the Liberals to support PR.

As it happens, I saw Horwath on TV today saying she would not take a position on party status for the Liberals and the matter is entirely up to Doug Ford. Which I think is the correct and honest thing to say, since Ford doesn't care what she thinks either way.

I disagree with this in part becuase with a majority she could go on holiday for the next four years with that logic. You cannot know if there is influence becuase in politics there often is. The NDP support on this would make Ford look worse for not agreeing. Becuase the NDP has a position on PR I think it could make more sense to support this. I also think it is an opportunity - as I said - to condition it on Liberal support for PR.

I see no reason for the NDP to duck an answer on this. It is a point important to the NDP as well as at times it suffers in the same way. At some point in the future the NDP could be reminded uncomfortably of this position. It also makes the NDP look more self serving than principled. In fact it is in the NDP interest to shaw the best on this side -- the voters for these people are the ones the NDP needs in the next election.

 

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

Not saying they should not be given party status but Liberals might want to reflect back on the way they treated the NDP when they were in a similar situation, eh!

...and it would be fair for Horwath to point that out. Ducking the question does not give her high ground to do so.

Makes all parties look like the kind of politicians people dislike.

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