Premier McGuinty resigns

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Unionist

I never said or thought anything of the sort, jan. What I said is that it's a shame when ultra-partisanship makes you read things that aren't even there. Oh and guess what? That makes two.

mark_alfred

I think progressives spend too much time policing each other, actually, rather than spending too much time "jumping up and down when they think the other team has done something wrong".

jerrym

mark_alfred wrote:

I think progressives spend too much time policing each other, actually, rather than spending too much time "jumping up and down when they think the other team has done something wrong".

Amen.

Brachina

Unionist wrote:

Brachina wrote:
Warren Kinsella is accusing the Wynn campaign of homophobia over something her campaign manager posted on facebook.

No he didn't.

Quote:
I love Liberal infighting.

Great. But please don't post falsehoods in your enthusiasm to watch the infighting.

 

 

Shit, misread that Kinesella post, it wasn't intentional. I'll go wear the dunance cap on this one. I take full responsiblity for this boondoogle. Still not a lie, just a screw up. Unionist was right (enjoy that statement Unionist, you'll never hear those words from me again :p)

Never the less as a pinciple I support Liberal infighting :p even if this wasn't an example of that.

Unionist

Thanks for that, Brachina. I just wanted to correct the error. As usual, some other people interpreted that as a crime. I appreciate your correction.

 

Brachina

Your welcome, although I apprecate the soladarity from those who defended me :D.

toaster

Do people agree with this alignment? 

 

 

ctrl190

Very interesting, Toaster. I would place the Grit candidates < Wynne - Hoskins - Kennedy - Murray - McGuinty - Takhar - Sousa - Pupatello> .  I put Murray in the middle because of his ministerial record and his role as head of the very moderate, don't-rock-the-boat Canadian Urban Institute. And for the Cons I think Hillier should be off the grid Tongue out

 

What is everyone's perception of the race so far? In the 416 bubble it seems to have been drowned out by Fordgate. The Star had a poll suggesting name recognition gave Kennedy an advantage among the general electorate. Is there any indication that Kennedy is eating into Wynne's base?

 

 

 

mark_alfred

NDP put out a video ridiculing McGuinty for proroguing parliament.  It's good, but only partially successful.  While watching it, instead of thinking, "yes, jobs should not be left half-done", I instead thought, "yeah, I like how that guy can be relaxed and happy and not worry about whether his lawn is fully cut or his car is fully washed."

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

Toaster, can you do that graphic with all 3 parties in the same box? I'm sure some of the Libs are to the right of some of the PC's -- and yes, Hillier should be suspended in limbo somewhere. I would have put Klees to the right of Hudak but, now I think it over, I'm not sure why I have that impression.

So far none of the Lib. candidates seem willing to challenge the wrongheaded direction in which the party is going. Why am I not surprised.

Stockholm

I would never have identified Tabuns as being on the righjt of the ONDP

toaster

I don't think there really is a "Right" side to the NDP.  But I do think Bisson is much more fiscally to the left than Tabuns (or he's just more vocal about certain things).  Of the 4 I listed, I think Tabuns was the closest to being to the centre of the NDP party.  I don't think there is any overlap between parties.  The closest may be Pupatello being further "right" than Tory, although I don't even think that is the case.

Kermit

It seems Gerard Kennedy and Kathleen Wynne are the frontrunners.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/01/03/pupatello-feeling-good-as-rivals-rise-in-olp-leadership-race/

 

theleftyinvestor

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1311972--kathleen-wy...

 • Wynne has 1,533 backers running to be delegates.

 • Former Windsor West MPP Sandra Pupatello has 1,281 in 106 ridings.

 • Gerard Kennedy, the former Parkdale—High Park MP and MPP who finished second to McGuinty in the Liberals’ 1996 leadership contest, has 846 in 97 ridings.

 • Mississauga South MPP Charles Sousa has 778 in 92 ridings.

 • St. Paul’s MPP Eric Hoskins has 714 in 97 ridings.

 • Toronto Centre MPP Glen Murray has 461 in 82 ridings.

 • Mississauga Erindale MPP Harinder Takhar is in last place with 456 delegate candidates in 54 ridings.

The tallies are provisional and all seven camps are contesting their respective numbers with party officials — several candidates insist they are off by as much as 20 per cent and final data may not come till later this week.

Interesting numbers. You'd need a coalition of about 3000 to elect someone as leader, not counting the fact that some delegates will simply walk and drop their ballots if their prefererd candidate is dropped.

In general what it takes to bump someone up from their place on the first ballot is a concerted effort to unite behind one candidate. 1996 saw McGuinty start at fourth place, but all the eliminated votes moved towards McGuinty or Kennedy. A key thing to note is that Cordiano started in 2nd place but had *very* little momentum, gaining a mere 139 votes from 1st to 4th ballot versus 198 for Kennedy and 310 for McGuinty. 

From everything I've heard, Pupatello is the main right-leaning candidate and has some clear dividing lines against candidates such as Wynne, Kennedy and Murray. The latter's votes together add up to 2840, which is pretty close. We could see yet another situation where the second-place candidate has poor momentum.

Mr.Tea

Reports say that Murray will drop out today and endorse Wynne. It's definitely a boost to her perceived frontrunner status but Murray was running very far behind and probably won't bring that much support.

theleftyinvestor

Gerard Kennedy does have a history of being the kingmaker but never the king (see McGuinty, Dion). Is a Kennedy-Wynne alliance an eventuality too?

theleftyinvestor
David Young

Does anyone else find it interesting that at the threehundredeight site, there are national support figures that put the Liberals at just 22.4%, even though the media has been absolutely fawning over Trudeau since he announced his intention to seek the federal Liberal leadership?

 

autoworker

David Young wrote:

Does anyone else find it interesting that at the threehundredeight site, there are national support figures that put the Liberals at just 22.4%, even though the media has been absolutely fawning over Trudeau since he announced his intention to seek the federal Liberal leadership?

 


That's because the national media, in English Canada, is focused on Ontario, where that national average translates into higher percentage of seats.

theleftyinvestor

David Young wrote:

Does anyone else find it interesting that at the threehundredeight site, there are national support figures that put the Liberals at just 22.4%, even though the media has been absolutely fawning over Trudeau since he announced his intention to seek the federal Liberal leadership?

 

Nonetheless there are other threads where we can talk LPC. This thread is OLP.

Interesting quote from Pupatello:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1314876--ontario...

They’ve got us in the crosshairs. We don’t know how long this government is going to last before they want to toss us out. The public doesn’t want an election, I don’t want an election, but if we get thrown there we had better be prepared. I will get the NDP to vote for me because they want a fighter and they know that’s what I do and they voted for me in my home town. I will get the red Tories voting for me because they’re not comfortable with Hudak. He is far too right, inexperienced, doesn’t understand the economy. And I believe I can get that vote.

Good luck?

Brachina

http://warrenkinsella.com/2013/01/labour-legend-hargrove-on-pupatello/

Buzz at it again.

In other news rumours are that if Wynn wins she's going to float the idea of a Coalition.

janfromthebruce

Sandra is a right-winger and it's obvious. And she can say whatever she wants. I'd suggest that if she wins, and there is a byelection that the NDP run a very popular candidate. Why not? I remember the Libs doing the same thing when John Tory ran in a byelection and the Liberals won and so it is fair play for sure.

theleftyinvestor

Brachina wrote:
In other news rumours are that if Wynn wins she's going to float the idea of a Coalition.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1315467--ontario...

Wynne also said she would be open to formal cooperation with the NDP to avoid an imminent election. “If (NDP leader) Andrea (Horwath) is the [one] who’s willing to work with us … then I’m more than open to having that conversation,” she said.

NDP leader Andrea Horwath said Tuesday that she would be open to collaboration with the next Liberal leader. Would you entertain a formal coalition with the NDP?

I will be reaching out to both Tim (Hudak) and Andrea (Horwath). I want the opportunity to talk to both of them. And not in a one-off, take-it-or-leave-it way, but I want to figure out how we’re going to do this, how we’re going to establish a relationship. Whichever or both of them are willing to have that conversation, I’m willing to work with them. I don’t know the level of formality. That has to come out of those conversations.

If you didn’t like Bill 115, why did you vote for it?

If I hadn’t voted for Bill 115, as I’ve said to my teacher friends and colleagues, the premier would have had to ask me to leave cabinet. And I determined that it was more important for me to be there to continue to voice my opinion than to vote against the bill and leave cabinet. But that does not mean that the decisions were all good. They clearly weren’t.

Unionist

buyme118 wrote:

you can find many cheap and high stuff

Although I try (not always successfully) to be respectful with new babblers, I really have to wonder what this post has to do with McGuinty's resignation? Are you suggesting the Ontario Liberals should purchase a new leader and pay by credit card or Western Union?? I don't even think that's legal.

Anyway, welcome to babble - with your diverse interests, I'm sure you'll find much to contribute to here. And I'll be looking forward to that cheap high!

 

janfromthebruce

that rumour is absolutely media driven.

Brachina

The Star has made a vast ethical breach by trying to equate cooperation with coalition and,as such have made cooperation far more difficult playing.

They've absolutely screwed over Wynn and given Susan an edge. Fear of a NDP coalition will drive both the blue grits and those fearing it means extinction for the OLP over to Susan and Wynn's massive denial has alienated the procooperation and procoalition factions.

Add Buzz's endorsement which could attract some on the so called Liberal left, Susan's lead in degates and Susan's connections to MPs, MPPs, and party officials and people who formally held such offices all of whom get a vote.

Oh and add in the Superstition that someone from Toronto can't win, again in Susan favour.

I think barring a huge mistake Susan will take this. This is good for the NDP.

The cooperation with Wynn will win over Liberal NDP swing voters, especially with Susan,as leader. Its the best of both worlds.

janfromthebruce

The Star represents the elitist system that must be protected at all costs. It pretends otherwise, but "the system" has been under constant attack since the occupy movements. The Star, like all big media rely and depend on advertisement dollars to stay afloat.

Thus, it supported the McGuinty govt in how it presented Bill 115. No matter how many times it was disputed that protest against this undemocratic law of convenience was about charter rights, they would repeat the trope that it was about wage freezes and deficit spending.

Here's a super article about “Putting Students First” doesn’t mean putting teachers last

 

Manufacturing a Crisis and the Erosion of Democracy 

Premier McGuinty, Education Minister Broten, and Conservative party leader Hudak knowingly misrepresented the situation to the public when they claimed in August that “The start of our school year is at risk.” This was fearmongering and opportunistic politicking. For the Liberals, it was about a calculation of how to win two by-elections and gain a majority government. For the Conservatives, it was about creating fear and resentment of public sector workers in general, and mustering public support for changing and weakening the province’s labour laws.

 

theleftyinvestor

Brachina wrote:
The Star has made a vast ethical breach by trying to equate cooperation with coalition and,as such have made cooperation far more difficult playing. They've absolutely screwed over Wynn and given Susan an edge. Fear of a NDP coalition will drive both the blue grits and those fearing it means extinction for the OLP over to Susan and Wynn's massive denial has alienated the procooperation and procoalition factions. Add Buzz's endorsement which could attract some on the so called Liberal left, Susan's lead in degates and Susan's connections to MPs, MPPs, and party officials and people who formally held such offices all of whom get a vote. Oh and add in the Superstition that someone from Toronto can't win, again in Susan favour. I think barring a huge mistake Susan will take this. This is good for the NDP. The cooperation with Wynn will win over Liberal NDP swing voters, especially with Susan,as leader. Its the best of both worlds.

Susan?

Did you perhaps mean Sandra?

Brachina

Oops, your right Sandra.

Brachina

The Star is trying to spin that Andrea is now back tracking on the issue of a Coalition, when in fact nethier She nor Wynn suggested or supported the idea, even in the Star's own qoutes.

Now the Star has endorsed Sandra. What a surprise!

I'm not a fan of any Liberal Cabinat Minister, but the deliberate attempt to sabotage Wynn's campaign and lying by the Star is pure rotten and one of the worst ethical breaches in Journalism. I mean its not just partisan, or bullcrap, which I've come to expect, but I think its boarder line libel.

And I say this as someone who wants Sandra to win the liberal leadership race, as she'll be the easiest for the NDP to beat, and lead to Premier Andrea Horwath.

And I think its working. At this point I'd be very shocked if Sandra loses the Lib, leadership.

janfromthebruce

I agree with Brachina with your assessment. I also love how liberals love to fight in public view and eat each other to the bitter end. It shows how "winning" is all that matters in their quest for power.

janfromthebruce

I agree with Brachina with your assessment. I also love how liberals love to fight in public view and eat each other to the bitter end. It shows how "winning" is all that matters in their quest for power.

adma

My spin is: Wynne has the Red Tories, and Pupatello has the Blue Liberals.

janfromthebruce

I agree adma. But there is a contingent of delegates, the establishment who back PooPoo to ensure that structured power behind the throne remains in tact. They get automatic votes and aren't delegates.

theleftyinvestor

22 Minutes struck a low blow, referring to Wynne as "Tommy Douglas".

janfromthebruce

She is no Tommy Douglas. Tommy Douglas after winning his federal seat was asked by Liberals to sit with them and refused. He had principles and convictions and didn't sell out. Wynne by being in cabinet and voting for Bill 115 sold out. Also during the debates she didn't say that she would rip up those contracts if elected and renegotiate so on some level she is okay with revoking charter rights if it meets short term needs.

theleftyinvestor

I call it a low blow, not because of Tommy Douglas being anything bad, but because they were making fun of her appearance (lesbian with a short haircut and glasses = man?). Having been surrounded by gender non-conformers since my teens, it stung to hear them make a cheap shot.

janfromthebruce

Since I did not see the clip I was unaware of the "reference implication". I'm pretty surprised considering that it was 22 minutes. That said, most women in their late 50s have short haircuts and wear glasses, in ango saxon communities that is.

adma

Speaking of "Red Tories", I find an odd resemblance btw/Wynne and Mike Harris's leadership runner-up Diane Cunningham

adma

janfromthebruce wrote:
That said, most women in their late 50s have short haircuts and wear glasses, in ango saxon communities that is.

Case in point: my comparison point above.

toaster

For the good of the province, I pray Wynne wins.  Sure it may be more difficult for Andrea next election, but for right now, Puppatello will only be more of the same bull we've seen with McGuinty.  Worst case scenario, Puppatello wins and is able to Govern with Hudak and PC support.  I'd much rather Wynne "win", govern either with NDP support, or go to an election where hopefully the ONDP can win.

Unionist

So a Wynne win would be a win win?

toaster

Well the real win would be an ONDP win in the next election, but for now I think Wynne would be a "win win".  Also, having Ontario's first woman and first openly gay Premier would be something to be proud of.

adma

If there aren't Charlie Sheen-style "Wynneing" shirts at the convention, I'll be darned.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Heather Hiskox on CBC Newsworld  said this morning that Putabello and Wynne are the front runners, the others are so far back that it's unlikely they have a chance. Isn't this kind of reporting - on the eve of the conference - unethical?  (I'm imagining people saying "CBC says only Putabello and Wynne have a chance at winning, so if we're not voting for either of them, we may as well stay home")

Mr.Tea

I think it's pretty accurate. I can't see anyone other than Wynne or Pupatello taking it. I doubt you'll see a surprise like when Stephane Dion won the federal leadership. 

janfromthebruce

Well TorStar editorialized their support for Pupatello and basically has been riding their horse daily. And there too, it is seen as a match only between the 2 female candidates.

Toaster, I doubt Sandra would get support from the PCs, as it appears they are itching for an election, so she would have to depend on the NDP for support. And that would be interesting in itself because she is a right leaning Liberal.

Libs goal is to rule as long as possible and get away from the stench of major bucks disasters. I'm not sure if it's in the best interests of all to let them con't.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I suspect the Ontario Libs really want to remain in power so we won't discover how badly the books are cooked.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Andrea Horwath was just on P&P saying the Liberals need to show some goodwill and collegiality - and lose their dictatorship style - if they expect to work with the NDP. She said the party has been focused on themselves and not the people of Ontario.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

My thinking is that Pupatello would be the best leader for the NDP to run against - but the only candidate I have any empathy for is Kathleen Wynne.

ETA: Greg Weston on P&P: Pupatello is the establishment candidate.

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