babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Again I my concern goes to the political character of JWL and supporting the suppression of dissent is not the least of them. I have seen nothing in her history that would suggest she is going to stand up to privitization. Moreover, her history as an MLA does not point out toward any opposition to Winnipeg's constant expansion outward, exurbanization and suburbs that at sometimes have cost the city $40 000 per lot in the provision of city services ie Lindenwoods in the 80's and 90's.
Re: panhandling and privitization I referred to the Wpg Left in general. Work, effort but not success. As the Wpg Left refuses to assess or evaluate or brainstorm the worth or lack of worth in any particiular method of doing anything I never use the word 'success' in any relation to anything the Wpg Left does. What I meant was that many more Leftists would say more, do more, write or speak more about defending panhandling ( a knee-jerk bleeding heart position as opposed to anything 'radical') than they would privitization. Yes CUPE does its dance of duty or goes through the motions of fighting privitization but the Left in general does not.
The Left, particularly in Winnpeg, has degenerated into either sloppy liberalism or some neo-pagan neo-primitivism. Defending panhandling has nothing to do with helping those who do panhandling. And no I am not an echo-chamber for the Chamber of Commerce on this one notwithstanding any assumed similarities. The Wpg Left or most of it happens to be just plain wrong on this one.
When it comes to municipal politics, I frankly couldn't care less about the CPCCA. It's a non-issue. As for the differences? It's still too early to tell, as she has not yet released her platform. As mayor, she would control who sits on the city's EPC, and she would give more of a voice to those who advocate on issues such as housing, sustainable transportation, aboriginal issues, community centres, etc. Certainly a great deal more than has been the case under Katz.
Pretty much anyone would be better than Katz. I can't think of a single thing he's done in his time in office except delay rapid transit by five years. At the very least, I would think W-L is not going to get in the way of this long overdue project. Even now, after the corridor for the BRT has been acquired, Katz is hemming and hawing and talking about "oh, maybe we should do LRT." What a twit.
Seriously, what has he done for the city?
Mind you, the NDP have not demonstrated an understanding of liveable city principles, and I can see W-L following in the same pattern as Katz and many other city and provincial administrations in dumping money into downtown projects which don't actually do anything to improve commerce or liveability down there, while continuing to favour expansion and suburbanization. I'm not convinced she would do much differently on this front, and this is a fundamental source of many of Winnipeg's problems--something that, for some reason, successive generations of Winnipeggers just refuse to address.
I don't know that JW could do a great job but at least it would include the possiblity of being heard, Katz hears only what benefits him, look at the sleazy way the "Youth for Christ" deal was done.
Downtown will only thrive when people can live there affordably, forget the $250,000.00 condos.
Mind you, the NDP have not demonstrated an understanding of liveable city principles, and I can see W-L following in the same pattern as Katz and many other city and provincial administrations in dumping money into downtown projects which don't actually do anything to improve commerce or liveability down there, while continuing to favour expansion and suburbanization. I'm not convinced she would do much differently on this front, and this is a fundamental source of many of Winnipeg's problems--something that, for some reason, successive generations of Winnipeggers just refuse to address.
There is always that dynamic. There are many community organisations that speak to these concerns and do great work, so while the City may not completely understand these issues, Judy would at least bring them on board, moreso than any other mayor (with the possible exception of Glen Murray). When Murray was around he finally got a plan in place that started to address many of those issues, shortcomings notwithstanding. Unfortunately Katz tore that up along with every other good thing Murray tried to do for the city. It's as if Murray was never elected at all.
And ennir, the city is full of "affordable" housing - mostly decrepit. Beautiful buildings going to pigeons because of 1) the Wal-Martization of Winnipeg retail, 2) the attendant continuing build-up of the suburbs -- in direct opposition to the re-urbanization trend occurring in every other city in North America in the last 20 years, and 3) this misguided notion that rent control helps poor people. Rent control does not help poor people. It helps landlords.
I live in Winnipeg jas and it seems we differ in what we are defining as "affordable" housing, I am talking about purchasing housing, as in when we bought ten years ago we paid $37,000.00 for a house in Fort Rouge but if we had been able to buy something downtown we would have.
The initial revitalization of a neighbourhood often begins with artists, students and musicians moving into an area because the housing is cheap, they are then followed by small businesses, restaurants and art galleries and then the trendiness arrives and the hip condos. The Exchange District here which has the artists and the art galleries and now the shops and the hip condos has never had affordable housing, the artists went home at the end of the day too. If downtown is to change then that has to change too.
It seems other potential candidates are dropping out which may make for a very interesting race. Katz seems to surround himself with men who agree with him, it will be good to see JW challenge him.
When it comes to municipal politics, I frankly couldn't care less about the CPCCA. It's a non-issue. As for the differences? It's still too early to tell, as she has not yet released her platform. As mayor, she would control who sits on the city's EPC, and she would give more of a voice to those who advocate on issues such as housing, sustainable transportation, aboriginal issues, community centres, etc.
Again, her behavior of censoring critics is the issue and again she has no record as an MLA of seriously raising the issue of wider suburbs and exurbanization. Winnipeg is too wide and that is a civic issue that nobody is addressing. She registered as a candidate today and will have a news conference at the Forks tomorrow. If she was as progressive as so many here claim she would do it at one of the suburbs indicating how much the city loses per lot.
Good to see that she has the support of Liberal Senator Sharon Carstairs and former mayor Bob Norrie (who I think is a PC). To get elected Judy will need to get some support from left Liberals and red Tories.
She was last an MLA about 20 years ago and I've never heard of her "censoring" anyone.
Most of the last month's thread dealt with her parliamentary committee work to censor critics of Israel. If we are for some unstated reason not allowed to look at her record as an MLA, what exactly are we to use to measure her worth as a candidate?
We need someone to confront suburban/exurban sprawl as that is the main cost problem with the city. Why are we not allowed to ask any questions about her past record beyond that it is inconvenient for her NDP boosters?
There is no doubt a whole bandwagon campaign for her but it has no substance whatsoever.
We need someone to confront suburban/exurban sprawl as that is the main cost problem with the city. Why are we not allowed to ask any questions about her past record beyond that it is inconvenient for her NDP boosters?
That issue is primarily a civic issue, so I'm not sure how the province can be faulted. Even so, as she was part of a provincial government, I don't see how she can be fairly singled out.
Wow! The provincial gov't has as much say over the city as the city gov't does. It was the power of the province that halved the number of councilors on city gov't for example. As a sitting MLA for a core-area riding, she should have been more outspoken regarding the parasitical nature of Winnipeg's suburbs. I am not singling her out. I want, however, something tangible to her, something that she has done or fought for that would indicate she would be a mayoralty candidate deserving support.
I really hope that crackpots on the far, far, far left (all three of them) start to attack July W-L viciously. It will help make her look sensible and help her attract the votes she needs from red Tories and progressive Liberals.
Today Winnipeg city council is voting on a secret water/sewer services deal with little organized opposition beyond the Council of Canadians. That great candidate, JWL, has made no position clear on this vote or deal. This is absolutely huge! Again, another example of how there is no serious progressive activism on civic issues in Winnipeg. Who is running for mayor? No difference particularly.
The Free Press reported that she was at the meeting and stated that, if voted in, she would make the agreement available to all councillors to see the details. Which is what Katz should be doing right now - should have done before a vote took place. How can councillors vote on something, the details of which they are deliberately kept ignorant of?
2dawall, I'm beginning to wonder about your motivation here. Since you've offered up no alternative of your own to W-L, but continue to complain about her as if she's already in power, what would you have us do? What's your solution? Would you prefer to leave things as they are? Leave Katz unchallenged? Are you going to stay home on election day because W-L isn't quite what you wanted? What are you doing about it?
Today Winnipeg city council is voting on a secret water/sewer services deal with little organized opposition beyond the Council of Canadians. That great candidate, JWL, has made no position clear on this vote or deal. This is absolutely huge! Again, another example of how there is no serious progressive activism on civic issues in Winnipeg. Who is running for mayor? No difference particularly.
That was basically dropped out of thin air. The only time I heard about it was literally the day before it hit council. Not enough time to force council to slow down and take a look, much less organise any effective opposition.
I also agree with jas. So you don't like Judy, fair enough. Without criticising the "Winnipeg left," what do you see that can be done? Do you see any successes that can be built on?
Exactly! It did come out of thin air and backrooms, exactly why it should have been opposed on that point. My motivation is that there is no difference between the two candidates. News of it starting seeping out on the previous Friday, JWL should have been prepared to at least comment on the process the following Monday, two days before the vote. She should have pointed out how entirely flawed everything was. Making the agreement availabe to councilors is not enough. No agreement should have been made with that company to begin with, it has a terrible track record.
No I cannot see any successes to be built on as there is no coherent organization to fight what is essentially a business phantom civic party run by Katz and EPC. Of course no ordinary citizen alone can do anything so the questions of what I would do beyond not voting is silly and misplaced. No I am not complaining as if she is already in power, but rather that she is not actually running as if she is really in opposition to Katz. She is no real opponent as she does herself not offer anything different. Which again goes to the question I posed to her supports back on May 16th; what actually makes her worthwhile supporting beyond that she is not actually the man, Sam Katz?
If you think you have all the answers and that Judy has none - why don't you stop wasting yours and everyone elses time taking pot shots at her and instead declare your own candidacy for mayor of Winnipeg. Then you can put out your won detailed program and we'll see how many votes you get.
The municipal election in Winnipeg is almost six months away - it would be crazy to expect any candidate to have a complete platform on every single issue signed sealed and delivered this far in advance.
So 2dawall, it seems you're saying you have no solution? There is no solution? Sounds pretty defeatist. If we accept your premise that the right-wing is going to do as it will and there is no way to counter this, why bother concerning yourself with it at all? Why worry about something which can't be changed?
As to what makes her worthwhile? Let's compare the personal histories of the two candidates. Katz is supported by the business community. Judy has the support of many different groups, including women, aboriginals, etc. That should say volumes about the candidates. The other thing is that Judy was approached by these community groups. That may partially explain why she is perhaps not on top of the issues as she should be at this point, running for mayor not even being her own idea.
As for the campaign, you can organise and mobilise around issues all you like, the fact is that the general public (the people who actually decided to vote for Katz or any other mayor for that matter) generally doesn't pay attention to civic politics before the Labour Day Long Weekend, so you're effectively wasting time and energy.
What I find noteworthy is that even though Katz says he intends to run again, he has not officially filed his papers. Judy has.
Again I my concern goes to the political character of JWL and supporting the suppression of dissent is not the least of them. I have seen nothing in her history that would suggest she is going to stand up to privitization. Moreover, her history as an MLA does not point out toward any opposition to Winnipeg's constant expansion outward, exurbanization and suburbs that at sometimes have cost the city $40 000 per lot in the provision of city services ie Lindenwoods in the 80's and 90's.
Re: panhandling and privitization I referred to the Wpg Left in general. Work, effort but not success. As the Wpg Left refuses to assess or evaluate or brainstorm the worth or lack of worth in any particiular method of doing anything I never use the word 'success' in any relation to anything the Wpg Left does. What I meant was that many more Leftists would say more, do more, write or speak more about defending panhandling ( a knee-jerk bleeding heart position as opposed to anything 'radical') than they would privitization. Yes CUPE does its dance of duty or goes through the motions of fighting privitization but the Left in general does not.
The Left, particularly in Winnpeg, has degenerated into either sloppy liberalism or some neo-pagan neo-primitivism. Defending panhandling has nothing to do with helping those who do panhandling. And no I am not an echo-chamber for the Chamber of Commerce on this one notwithstanding any assumed similarities. The Wpg Left or most of it happens to be just plain wrong on this one.
Well this came to a halt; .. oh well.
According to CBC radio, Judy is resigning her seat today and will make an announcement regarding running for Mayor of Winnipeg later on.
MP Wasylycia-Leis leaving Parliament
Not to drag the thread off topic, but who is the NDP likely to run in the ensuing by-election? Can we assume that it is a safe seat?
[Edit: Reading upward, it looks like the thread was already a bit off-topic anyway]
Russ Wyatt is out
Well, I certainly see one difference:
1. Katz is a Jew.
2. Wasylycia-Leis sits on and supports a "coalition" which identifies the Jewish people with Israeli mass murderers and war criminals.
Come to think of it - tell me again what the difference is? I forgot.
When it comes to municipal politics, I frankly couldn't care less about the CPCCA. It's a non-issue. As for the differences? It's still too early to tell, as she has not yet released her platform. As mayor, she would control who sits on the city's EPC, and she would give more of a voice to those who advocate on issues such as housing, sustainable transportation, aboriginal issues, community centres, etc. Certainly a great deal more than has been the case under Katz.
Pretty much anyone would be better than Katz. I can't think of a single thing he's done in his time in office except delay rapid transit by five years. At the very least, I would think W-L is not going to get in the way of this long overdue project. Even now, after the corridor for the BRT has been acquired, Katz is hemming and hawing and talking about "oh, maybe we should do LRT." What a twit.
Seriously, what has he done for the city?
Mind you, the NDP have not demonstrated an understanding of liveable city principles, and I can see W-L following in the same pattern as Katz and many other city and provincial administrations in dumping money into downtown projects which don't actually do anything to improve commerce or liveability down there, while continuing to favour expansion and suburbanization. I'm not convinced she would do much differently on this front, and this is a fundamental source of many of Winnipeg's problems--something that, for some reason, successive generations of Winnipeggers just refuse to address.
I don't know that JW could do a great job but at least it would include the possiblity of being heard, Katz hears only what benefits him, look at the sleazy way the "Youth for Christ" deal was done.
Downtown will only thrive when people can live there affordably, forget the $250,000.00 condos.
There is always that dynamic. There are many community organisations that speak to these concerns and do great work, so while the City may not completely understand these issues, Judy would at least bring them on board, moreso than any other mayor (with the possible exception of Glen Murray). When Murray was around he finally got a plan in place that started to address many of those issues, shortcomings notwithstanding. Unfortunately Katz tore that up along with every other good thing Murray tried to do for the city. It's as if Murray was never elected at all.
Yes, that is my impression of Murray.
And ennir, the city is full of "affordable" housing - mostly decrepit. Beautiful buildings going to pigeons because of 1) the Wal-Martization of Winnipeg retail, 2) the attendant continuing build-up of the suburbs -- in direct opposition to the re-urbanization trend occurring in every other city in North America in the last 20 years, and 3) this misguided notion that rent control helps poor people. Rent control does not help poor people. It helps landlords.
I live in Winnipeg jas and it seems we differ in what we are defining as "affordable" housing, I am talking about purchasing housing, as in when we bought ten years ago we paid $37,000.00 for a house in Fort Rouge but if we had been able to buy something downtown we would have.
The initial revitalization of a neighbourhood often begins with artists, students and musicians moving into an area because the housing is cheap, they are then followed by small businesses, restaurants and art galleries and then the trendiness arrives and the hip condos. The Exchange District here which has the artists and the art galleries and now the shops and the hip condos has never had affordable housing, the artists went home at the end of the day too. If downtown is to change then that has to change too.
It seems other potential candidates are dropping out which may make for a very interesting race. Katz seems to surround himself with men who agree with him, it will be good to see JW challenge him.
Winnipeg Federal Electoral Map
Winnipeg Provincial Electoral Map
Rumour has it Judy WL will be announcing her mayoral bid tomorrow.
Again, her behavior of censoring critics is the issue and again she has no record as an MLA of seriously raising the issue of wider suburbs and exurbanization. Winnipeg is too wide and that is a civic issue that nobody is addressing. She registered as a candidate today and will have a news conference at the Forks tomorrow. If she was as progressive as so many here claim she would do it at one of the suburbs indicating how much the city loses per lot.
She was last an MLA about 20 years ago and I've never heard of her "censoring" anyone.
It's now a fact
Good to see that she has the support of Liberal Senator Sharon Carstairs and former mayor Bob Norrie (who I think is a PC). To get elected Judy will need to get some support from left Liberals and red Tories.
Norrie was definitely backed by the business community. Thing is, he wasn't exactly a gem himself when he was mayor.
Most of the last month's thread dealt with her parliamentary committee work to censor critics of Israel. If we are for some unstated reason not allowed to look at her record as an MLA, what exactly are we to use to measure her worth as a candidate?
We need someone to confront suburban/exurban sprawl as that is the main cost problem with the city. Why are we not allowed to ask any questions about her past record beyond that it is inconvenient for her NDP boosters?
There is no doubt a whole bandwagon campaign for her but it has no substance whatsoever.
That issue is primarily a civic issue, so I'm not sure how the province can be faulted. Even so, as she was part of a provincial government, I don't see how she can be fairly singled out.
Wow! The provincial gov't has as much say over the city as the city gov't does. It was the power of the province that halved the number of councilors on city gov't for example. As a sitting MLA for a core-area riding, she should have been more outspoken regarding the parasitical nature of Winnipeg's suburbs. I am not singling her out. I want, however, something tangible to her, something that she has done or fought for that would indicate she would be a mayoralty candidate deserving support.
I really hope that crackpots on the far, far, far left (all three of them) start to attack July W-L viciously. It will help make her look sensible and help her attract the votes she needs from red Tories and progressive Liberals.
Red-baiting smears and labels aside, can anyone offer anything that says JWL is a worthwhile candidate besides that she is JWL?
Anyone should have been able to get traction from Sam Katz's recent flip-flop on rapid transit but that did not happen.
If her critics are 'crackpots', are her supporters 'stooges' or 'zombies?'
Today Winnipeg city council is voting on a secret water/sewer services deal with little organized opposition beyond the Council of Canadians. That great candidate, JWL, has made no position clear on this vote or deal. This is absolutely huge! Again, another example of how there is no serious progressive activism on civic issues in Winnipeg. Who is running for mayor? No difference particularly.
The Free Press reported that she was at the meeting and stated that, if voted in, she would make the agreement available to all councillors to see the details. Which is what Katz should be doing right now - should have done before a vote took place. How can councillors vote on something, the details of which they are deliberately kept ignorant of?
2dawall, I'm beginning to wonder about your motivation here. Since you've offered up no alternative of your own to W-L, but continue to complain about her as if she's already in power, what would you have us do? What's your solution? Would you prefer to leave things as they are? Leave Katz unchallenged? Are you going to stay home on election day because W-L isn't quite what you wanted? What are you doing about it?
That was basically dropped out of thin air. The only time I heard about it was literally the day before it hit council. Not enough time to force council to slow down and take a look, much less organise any effective opposition.
I also agree with jas. So you don't like Judy, fair enough. Without criticising the "Winnipeg left," what do you see that can be done? Do you see any successes that can be built on?
Exactly! It did come out of thin air and backrooms, exactly why it should have been opposed on that point. My motivation is that there is no difference between the two candidates. News of it starting seeping out on the previous Friday, JWL should have been prepared to at least comment on the process the following Monday, two days before the vote. She should have pointed out how entirely flawed everything was. Making the agreement availabe to councilors is not enough. No agreement should have been made with that company to begin with, it has a terrible track record.
No I cannot see any successes to be built on as there is no coherent organization to fight what is essentially a business phantom civic party run by Katz and EPC. Of course no ordinary citizen alone can do anything so the questions of what I would do beyond not voting is silly and misplaced. No I am not complaining as if she is already in power, but rather that she is not actually running as if she is really in opposition to Katz. She is no real opponent as she does herself not offer anything different. Which again goes to the question I posed to her supports back on May 16th; what actually makes her worthwhile supporting beyond that she is not actually the man, Sam Katz?
If you think you have all the answers and that Judy has none - why don't you stop wasting yours and everyone elses time taking pot shots at her and instead declare your own candidacy for mayor of Winnipeg. Then you can put out your won detailed program and we'll see how many votes you get.
The municipal election in Winnipeg is almost six months away - it would be crazy to expect any candidate to have a complete platform on every single issue signed sealed and delivered this far in advance.
So 2dawall, it seems you're saying you have no solution? There is no solution? Sounds pretty defeatist. If we accept your premise that the right-wing is going to do as it will and there is no way to counter this, why bother concerning yourself with it at all? Why worry about something which can't be changed?
As to what makes her worthwhile? Let's compare the personal histories of the two candidates. Katz is supported by the business community. Judy has the support of many different groups, including women, aboriginals, etc. That should say volumes about the candidates. The other thing is that Judy was approached by these community groups. That may partially explain why she is perhaps not on top of the issues as she should be at this point, running for mayor not even being her own idea.
As for the campaign, you can organise and mobilise around issues all you like, the fact is that the general public (the people who actually decided to vote for Katz or any other mayor for that matter) generally doesn't pay attention to civic politics before the Labour Day Long Weekend, so you're effectively wasting time and energy.
What I find noteworthy is that even though Katz says he intends to run again, he has not officially filed his papers. Judy has.