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corruption in construction industry what are the strategy to fight the corruption as a citizen?

Lefauve
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Joined: Apr 15 2011

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Lefauve
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Joined: Apr 15 2011
recently there is a report on corruption in the construction industrie who had been release. (The report is avalaible on cbc. ) What is the best strategy to fight corruption when it implanted at this level?

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

I think workers in either public service or private enterprise are obligated not to accept gifts of money, freebies in general, or post-dated rewards of any kind from private industry representatives, salesmen etc. Professional ethics and personal morals are at play. It happens though. Corruption hurts democracy, the environment, and more things than I can list.

The system is not very transparent. I'm afraid that kick-back and graft have been a part of the way things are done in Canada and for a long time. What I do about it is vote NDP every opportunity I get. The NDP acknowledges the need for transparency and accountability in government as well as the need for a modern and competitive electoral system. What we have in Ottawa and the provinces is decay and rot. A system of top-down influence peddling and corruption was bound to happen when we have the same two old line parties in power and sharing power for the last 140 years in a row non-stop without a break for democracy. Abuse of power and the entitlement mentality are engrained in Canada. And we should have party representation at the municipal level where a lot of the kick-back and graft occurs.


Lefauve
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Joined: Apr 15 2011

Thank Fidel for your input, unfortunately it seen that your solution is only applicable in two years for Quebec and four in Ottawa. I read several document in which they mention that the construction industries is the top problematic industries for corruption

www.pwc.com/gx/en/...construction/fraud.../corruption-prevention.jhtml

http://www.transparency.org/tools/contracting/construction_projects

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/external/default/WDSContentServer/IW3P/IB/2...

 

So if the construction industries is the bigest problem, i think that we need to remove the Contractor licence or worker licence to anyone who linked with the organise crime.


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001


Just some food for thought, Lefauve:

http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/

Who ever did this wiki page seemed to want to blame socialism for the corruption.  When you think, however, of the intrisic corruption of the British in India, the root causes are probably older, and laying blame on government regulation or socialism seems more an act of bias than an act of reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/24/us-india-corruption-middleclas...


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001


As much as it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up to say this, you are right Fidel.

I think there is a direct line of evidence from the days of Upper Canada's "Family Compact" to the systemic corruption we see in Canada today.  Much of it is so intrenched that many don't even see it as corruption.

Truly, the construction contracts are "small fries" in the larger scheme of things, and I could list example after example of what I consider corruption.  Not all of them are in government either, but encompas the media and the stock market and banking, etc.

But, "small fries" or not, it will be an issue such as that which could galvanize people in a broader movement aganst corruption, and that is what has happened in India, I believe. 

But for that to happen here, some ground work has to be laid.

I'd say for starters that we need a discussion on what we feel is corruption, and later, the solutions to them, and then later, how to encapsulate that in a way that captures the imaginations and attention of the general public, and lastly, a way to force the government into accepting some sort of omnibus bill that attacks everything all at once.

I believe that is what I think Anna Hazare has done in India, and I believe his methodology has to be looked at seriously.


Lefauve
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Joined: Apr 15 2011

In the end i think corruption come with power, event if through time there is improvement compare of what is use to be. In the time of Duplessis thing like commandit scandale happen daily. Like fidel said our system who's bases on former colonial system must be revised deep into his founding. The Constitutional Monarchies let the administration in power do what they want.

I remember Colonialism is a base on system who encourage corruption.

 

We need better Democracy system and a Kick out or investigation on popular request. Too corrupt = Bye Bye.

 As for Tommy_paine's Upper Canada's "Family Compact", i don't think that it was a major cause in Upper Canada because they were rather poor and powerless. The former Lodge club, is most likely to be the perfect place for under the table trade of flavor.

for corruption you need one of these three think: cash,  power or sell-able  favor.

So According to Transparency international Canada is only less corrupt, still got lot of corruption for a modern country.

 

Hope one day we can get at the level of Scandinavian country.

 

 


RevolutionPlease
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Joined: Oct 15 2007

Yes Lefauve, I hope we can lower our ourselvs to a Scandinanian level. That is how Canadians will see it.Need to change that perception.


Northern Shoveler
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Joined: Feb 17 2011

Corruption?

BC Rail.  It takes a lot to come close to comparing with our crooks in Victoria.


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001


As an example, the E-health scandle in Ontario could have been stopped before a "billion dollars was spent with little or nothing to show for it" if M.P.P's applications under the Freedom of Information had not been delayed.

 

As M.P.P.s and MLA's are our voice in our legisltures, maybe delaying a freedom of information request from them should be treated akin to obstruction of justice, with a sentence not less than two years on conviction. 

Whether it is B.C. Rail, or contruction contracts in Quebec, we have to look at where that particular scandle could have been stopped, and come up with changes that plug that hole in the dyke-- and move on to the next one. 

But, I am getting ahead of myself. 

How would you guys define "corruption"?  I think founding deffinitions are important.


Northern Shoveler
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Joined: Feb 17 2011

Selling information about sealed bids is corruption.  Having Howe street law firms make 6 million dollars of tax payers money to defend against a case that took 6 years to go to trial and then ended with a slap on the wrist and all the facts buried is corruption.  The system in BC wherein a Howe street lawyer is paid to act as a special prosecutor has been corrupted.


Lefauve
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Joined: Apr 15 2011
How would you guys define "corruption"? For standard issue purpose, i supose the best definition will be the one in wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Is it corruption when the RCMP sabotage their own investigation into the Swiss Air disaster in 1998? 229 potential homicides, and they refused to do their jobs. It must be that they are spending all of their time looking for terrorists...

Actually, no they are not so busy rounding up terrorists either. Why is Canada's RCMP so subserviant to the American FBI? That was in 1993 and some time before NAFTA or border security talk was on the table. Do we even live in a sovereign country? I ask you.

Harper soft on white collar crime

Quote:
Stephen Harper has no problem sentencing 14 year-olds to life in prison. As for his gang of merry corporate supporters who have fleeced hardworking Canadians for billions? They have a better chance of getting locked up in the U.S.

It's not that Canada is devoid of white collar crime - Canadian workers and taxpayers have paid a high price for made-in-Canada market fraud and abuse. It's just that our politicians would rather enable corporate criminals than hold them accountable.

Canada a haven for white collar crime that pays

Canada is a tax haven for the world's ultra-rich . The Feds scramble like hell to get elected by some phony majority, and then they refuse to do their jobs with regard to collecting tax revenues. It's the ultimate in leave it to the market baloney.


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001


We have a lot of intelligence on how minimum sentences and tough jail sentences really do little to curb crime, and while I share everyone's gut reaction to white collar crime and corruption in that I often think we should bring back the sentence of "hard labour" for such things, in more reflection, I think that's not quite the route to go.   Tougher sentences, indeed, might make what few convictions that are had even more difficult to get.

Maybe restititution is a better way to go.  Take their stuff away from them; take away their ability to amass more stuff.  I have to think they'd suffer more through that than anything else anyway.

Northern Shoveler brings up a point about law firms. It seems in both B.C. and in Ontario, with cases I am familiar with, neither province could find a "special prosecutor" who wasn't some how affiliated with a political party.  It may be that this was by design-- they fixed the outcome by chosing a "special prosecutor" for their poltical affiliations.  I suspect it could also be that it's just impossible or near impossible to find a lawyer or law firm that isn't politically affilliated.

Do we recall Stockwell Day's deffense against libel?  He libeled a lawyer in a letter to the editor saying, basically, that only a pedophile would deffend a pedophile.  The lawyer was defending a pedophile at the time. 

It's a slam dunk case, really, and should have been settled quickly and out of court.  I think the lawyer was only asking for about $40,000 in damages.   But Day drew out the case, fought tooth and nail.  And, since he was an Albertan Cabinet Minister at the time, all his legal fees got paid for by the Alberta tax payer.

To a law firm that was a big contributor to the Reform party, which Day was moving to. 

Seems to me that this is just a way to legally launder money and favours between law firms and political parties.


Fast forward a bit to the long discussions we had on the issue of M.P.'s  top secret expense accounts.  A Toronto Liberal M.P. came out and said the real reason they want to keep them secret is because of all the M.P.'s that have been sued by their employees.  Some might think it would hurt them politically, but I think it's because this would expose the kind of corruption and running scam that I suspect is happening via the secret expense accounts.

Here's how it could work:

Say I'm an M.P. and Fidel, you are my long serving Consituency Assistant.  Let's say you have a job opportunity somewhere else.  Instead of leaving, I suggest to you that I fire you in a stupid way-- and you turn around and sue me for wrongfull dismissal.

As an M.P., I then have a blank check to go out and find the legal firm that, say, has done work for me in the past, or that might extend help in the future-- and drag out a case and pad the billable hours to the max or even beyond.  I mean, who's watching?

You, Fidel, end up with a generous settlement, and I end up with a favour paid or bought from a law firm.  Which may pay divedends when I, say, run over a cyclist and a buddy appoints a "special prosecutor" to act more like a deffense lawyer than prosecutor. 

As far as I can see, no laws have been broken, and very little of an unethical nature would even have to be said between all the parties involved.  Just a nod and a wink here and there.

Trying to stop this kind of corruption (and this is just an example, not the worst or least of it) isn't just about making everyone play fair.  This is the nuts and bolts, the gory details of how political power actually works.  If we are ever to take back our democracy, this is one head of the hydra that has to be lopped off and cauterized.



Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

On CBC last night (I think it was on P&P) it was pointed out that Charest - facing an election next year - has refused to call a public inquiry into all this - the commentator said it was because the Charest government could be implicated, and that would kill the Liberal re-election chances. I think Charest is toast, regardless.

Charest rejects public inquiry into construction industry

excerpt:

But perhaps the most explosive allegations revolve around ties between construction companies, the Mafia and criminal biker gangs.

It says the criminals act as enforcers for friendly construction companies, preventing rival firms from getting work done with threats or by pulling strings to create red tape.

Thirteen cases have been transferred to police for criminal investigations, the document announced. Meanwhile, Quebec's elections watchdog immediately declared plans to probe deeper, saying the allegations represented a setback after 30 years of efforts to clean up political financing.

 


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001

And if we recall, also, Boom Boom, this is what was exactly happening with the stone work renovations on the Parliament Buildings in Ottawa.

Proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that corruption is in the very foundations of Parliament.  Both literally, and figuratively. Laughing


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Lopped off and cauterized, yes. And scrap the Senate, because even an elected one in the U.S. shows just how millionaire senators work to represent the interests of ordinary people.

It's something they said about communism that wouldn't work - that allowing a relative handful few people plan and run the economy would not work. They are proving it themselves today with money in U.S. politics. And our corrupt stooges just follow the right wing think tankery emanating from that country and duplicated in this one. They still won't trust the people enough to allow democracy. It's a terrifiying thought for oligarchs.


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001


I came across this on crackbook, Fidel.  I always figured there was some "pinch points" if corruption and corrupting influence; and I always wanted to do this kind of analysis.  But of course I didn't have the intellectual, financial or time resouces to do something as complete as this:

http://planetsave.com/2011/08/28/who-runs-the-world-network-analysis-rev...

I don't think this is tin foil hat stuff, though the link might give the impression it is.

What I always considered "pinch points", these guys call "Bow Ties". 

These guys identify Barclay's Bank as the central focus.  I would have thought Goldman Sachs. 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

I would have thought CitiGroup, Chase-Morgan or Bank of America would have been listed. Financialism, yes. It's the neoliberal maxim that finance should be in control of powers of resource allocation, because, and it goes without saying, that elected politicians can't be trusted. And in case we ever do elect a populist, he or she and that party of the people will be powerless to do anything progressive.

Some say it's Plato's Republic being played out today. They are being told in Europe that an independent central bank is the hallmark of democracy. What it is is a bunch of non-elected bankers demanding that the people drop their democracy and have an oligarchy. They are saying to Greeks and Spaniards that they must sell off the money makers and historical sites to private bankers and rich people, and that they will be back to rip them off some more next time. And now Geithner and Obama want U.S. taxpayers to bailout EU banks. I think it will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001


With the fiancial world, what we are seeing is a coup d'etat, and I think it will be some time before enough people realize it before a movement against these fascists can materialize.

The corruption involved is how our elected representatives have gone along with it for whatever reason.  Stark examples of the British Labour Party, the Irish Labour party and the Greece Socialist party.  They have betrayed workers to the bone and that surely is corruption.







Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Yes I agree. They are socialists in name only. Meanwhile oligarchs are feeding off the corpse. It's finished.


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