NDP Ex-MPs to rock Couillard's world?

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lagatta4

Indeed. That is the opposite. There are ways to give metropolitan areas more powers without making them separate départements, provinces, or whatever.  The idea of a Montréal not part of Québec is a reactionary angryphone vision that always involves more bilingual signage and other attempts to erase French-language identity. There has been a movement across many countries to give cities more powers.

I don't see how the island as a whole getting such powers would be more valid than the city of Montréal, Laval and Longueuil - the west island is certainly as suburban and carcentric as the worst of Laval. Homelessness and semi-itinerance have spread far beyond the city centre and I'm sure there are cases in the largest and most urbanised of the suburbs.

pietro_bcc

Pretending that all those who care about the social condition of the anglophone community in Quebec are like Galganov is the equivalent of saying that all sovereigntists are Bock Coté and Martineau. Completely unfair and insulting to the intelligence of both communities. There are anglophones who do a good job of exposing the challenges currently being faced by the english community without being Galganov-esque clowns, such as Jack Jedwab president of the Association for Canadian Studies and organizations such as Youth Employment Services. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-allophones-anglophones-mor... for an example of what they actually concern themselves with rather than the characature of them being only focused on signs on commercial buildings.

Honestly the most maddening thing about these organizations is they have 1 winning issue where they can actually mobalize the majority of Quebec society and they refuse to mention it. Last year for the 40th anniversary of Bill 101 Leger did a poll of the various aspects of the law, most were popular except 1.

http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/loi_101_juillet_2017.pdf

(Page 7)

Currently 60% of all Quebeckers (including 53% of Francophones) believe that all parents should have the right to send their child to the school of their choice regardless of language. Only 31% agree with the current status quo ban on Francophones and Allophones having that freedom of choice, yet 100% of Quebec's MNAs represent that position held by 31%.

Considering that this is an issue that actually threatens the future of the Anglophone education institutions (unlike the current sign laws which threaten nothing), these organizations not fighting for the majority held position is downright incompetance. 22 english schools in Montreal have closed due to lack of enrollment since 1998, yet they refuse to fight (even when they have the support of a majority of Francophones) which is why I'm quite disillusioned with these organizations. While they do great work in exposing the problems they refuse to project strength and fight for their community.

 

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

Indeed. That is the opposite. There are ways to give metropolitan areas more powers without making them separate départements, provinces, or whatever.  The idea of a Montréal not part of Québec is a reactionary angryphone vision that always involves more bilingual signage and other attempts to erase French-language identity. There has been a movement across many countries to give cities more powers.

I don't see how the island as a whole getting such powers would be more valid than the city of Montréal, Laval and Longueuil - the west island is certainly as suburban and carcentric as the worst of Laval. Homelessness and semi-itinerance have spread far beyond the city centre and I'm sure there are cases in the largest and most urbanised of the suburbs.

I never said Montréal should be a province and my vision of an autonomous Montréal is not written from the angryphone play book. I never said or suggested a 'sovereign' Montréal should be a replica of downtown Toronto. I never said anything about more English signs and a more English face.

I'm talking about power and distinct status. That's all.

Homelessness may have spread to the West Island and to the Eastern part of Montréal like Ville d'Anjou but it is rare as a 3 dollar bill to see the same state of destitution on the South and North shores. Montréal has a seriuous poverty problem and a housing crisis that is over 20 years old.

And you know full well that the reality in a metropolis like Montréal is not at all the reality in Rimouski  or St-Louis de Ha Ha.

I think Montréal should be run by local governments,not a provincial government whose,especially in the case of CAQ,base is rural and Quebec City regional. If that's the base,our urban communities suffer and destitution rises rather than decrease.

I don't appreciate being called an 'angryphone' I'm far from it.

 

lagatta4

You really want to anglicise our society, eh? Why? Anch'io parlo italiano. Voglio più italiano, più spagnolo, più creolo e più arabo, anche più vietnamita. What I don't want is for our society to be assimilated into the angloamerican steamroller.

Your example illustrates the same right turn as Legault. More "individual rights" that undermine social rights.

Yes, of course I think anglophones have valid concerns, especially older people and especially isolated communities such as in the Townships, the Gaspé and the Lower North Shore, where it is hard for them to access healthcare and social services in their languages, though older people may legitimately have a limited grasp of French. But that also applies to other linguistic communities - I worked at Centro Dante for a while. What I don't approve is using legitimate concerns to undermine the progress we have achieved in making French the common language of communication in Québec, despite the rearguard actions of reactionary elements in allophone communities - élites who wanted to corral the working class under their control, against making common cause with francophone workers. The Consiglio, the Greek group (forget the name), the Canadian Jewish Congress for that matter, all toadies to the Liberal party and enemies of progressives within their own cultural communities.

Alan, I wasn't calling you an angryphone. I was referring to pietro, who has already referred to himself as such.  Thought that was obvious when I wrote a few words in Italian.

I also agree with a "metropolitan" status for Montréal, as do many other cultural workers and organisations.

Pondering

Montreal is distinct from the rest of Quebec. Most Montreals don't care what language people speak in their own homes or to each other. Last I heard, Montreal is the most trilingual city in the world. It is the economic engine of Quebec and its liaison with the rest of North America specifically because of English and the many other languages spoken here. 

Like Alan, I couldn't care less about signage. Me and mine already have access to Engish schools. It's francophones that are legally prevented from attending the schools of their choice. Individual rights don't always trump collective rights but neither should collective desires trump individual rights. 

Keeing francophones unilingual makes them captive workers. You can bet all the bosses and their kids speak English. Just gotta make sure the worker class doesn't learn it. 

QS's version of sovereignty is multicultural but that makes no sense to a large number of sovereigntists to whom the main point is maintaining traditional Quebecois culture not just that everybody speaks French when out and about. The point of bill 101 was to assimilate immigrants. That's why it is so upsetting that immigrants still speak their original language at home. It means they aren't assimilating. French families have left Montreal because the schools are reaching 50% immigrant population and they want their children to have the same traditional experience as they did growing up. While I favor what I consider the more enriching experience of growing up exposed to multiple cultures I can still see the appeal of living in a community with more closely shared traditions. We respect the right of Hasidic Jews and other groups to have freedom of association. It isn't racist. It's a desire to preserve a way of life. 

The PQ also tried to change the focus to just language and that is another reason they have dropped support and CAQ has increased support. Many people feel threatened by immigration. They don't want the face of the province to just remain French they want the province to remain traditional Quebecois. They want separation of church and state but they want the nativity scenes and Christmas trees to remain the face of Christmas in Quebec. Language is just one protective aspect of culture not the be all and end all of it. 

CAQ is appealing to the garrison mentality of a people under siege, threatened first by assimilation into English Canada and now by a growing immigrant population that will eventually dominate the province after it dominates Montreal. Preservation has always been at the root of the sovereignty movement. Just because leaders want to change that and make it all about language doesn't mean the motivation of the people can be changed. 

The issue of immigration will only grow as the percentage of immigrants in Montreal and Quebec rises. 

cco

alan smithee wrote:

I think Montréal should be run by local governments,not a provincial government whose,especially in the case of CAQ,base is rural and Quebec City regional. If that's the base,our urban communities suffer and destitution rises rather than decrease.

Out of curiosity, I just went through the entire cabinet on Wikipedia. 12 represent Montréal island ridings, 13 represent the "rest of Québec", of whom more than half are from places like Laval and Brossard, not Rimouski. Montréal isn't excluded from government; indeed, if the CAQ wins, it'll win because it's made a breakthrough on the island, and those MNAs will be favoured to be in cabinet. Truly rural ridings like Rouyn-Noranda or Îles-de-la-Madeleine are overrepresented in relation to their population, but the provincial government isn't being run from Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!. (Also, I don't visit the regions often, as a downtown-dweller without a car, but every time I do, I'm surprised by them being more linguistically diverse, and having a larger First Nations population, than my stereotype gives them credit for.)

The reason Montréal feels (and often is) ignored politically isn't due to a conspiracy of farmers and miners to lock out Québec's largest city. It's because Montréal voters don't swing very much, at least between the PQ and the PLQ. Those bases are locked in, and can thus safely be ignored.

On another note: Is it time to start a new thread entitled "Québec general election, 2018"? This thread has drifted from speculation about the potential existence of an NPDQ to a chronicle of the birth of said NPDQ to a general election thread.

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