Quebec Election October 1, 2018

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

I know it’s a big leap but any possibility of QS becoming the official opposition?

That would probably require both the PQ and the PLQ to collapse in support in the next two months.  It is realistic, however, to envision QS moving past the PQ, at least in the popular vote.  Since it is already clear that the PQ can't win this election, or even remain as official opposition, between now and October 1st it is entirely possible that a lot of its remaining supporters will decide that there's no valid reason for them to keep voting for that party.  

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Yeah. That would be awesome. I can't wait.

You didn't.

You were the one suggesting throwing shitballs at each other. I dont remember already throwing shitballs, You have though. And if you want to argue that is fine by me.  Thatr's what I was what I couldnt wait for. That's esssentially what you do every post, I can engage in that crap too.

josh

Forum out with their usual eyebrow raising polling results.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/m/post/2863/quebec-week-1/

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I don't pay attention to polls anymore. Theyare always proven wrong, Well, 80% of the time especially in recent years. I don't think the CAQ has a huge lead and I think it would be foolish to assume a Liberal loss or a CAQ majority government.  I personally think CAQ will form a minority government which is good news as it keeps Legault on a short leash.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

to clarify, when I associated myself with Alan's comment upthread, I only meant in terms of the part where Alan observed that it was a weirdly right-wing comment.   I was not endorsing the use of the " -tard" suffix, and I should have realized that the way I phrased that would look as though I was.

I stand by my view that the comment Alan responded to was both out of place on THIS board and a bogus, inacurrate characterization of Ms. Massé's views.  Progressive 17 knows perfectly well she wasn't disrespecting working people or calling on working people to simply embrace sloth or whatever the hell he was implying.

lagatta4

We can dream, but that would be quite a leap. What we can do is have an influence beyond our seats, which we have already done with only three MNAs.

I'm very proud of the diversity of our candidates. I don't know exactly where the line is drawn for "visible minorities", though.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

to clarify, when I associated myself with Alan's comment upthread, I only meant in terms of the part where Alan observed that it was a weirdly right-wing comment.   I was not endorsing the use of the " -tard" suffix, and I should have realized that the way I phrased that would look as though I was.

I stand by my view that the comment Alan responded to was both out of place on THIS board and a bogus, inacurrate characterization of Ms. Massé's views.  Progressive 17 knows perfectly well she wasn't disrespecting working people or calling on working people to simply embrace sloth or whatever the hell he was implying.

Yeah. The word I used is not acceptable here. But I can't think of a person more stupid and vile than a Trump supporter other than Trump himself.

I was enraged by the right wing comment that doesn't belong on THIS board either.

NorthReport

No tax hike on income under $97,000, Massé says

Québec solidaire says it intends to keep its campaign promises while pumping up provincial revenues by $12.9 billion.

 

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-election-no-tax-hike-...

progressive17 progressive17's picture

So the poster with the birds flying away with all the jobs and investment capital was actually QS and not PQ, even though it was in PQ blue. Now I have noticed that QS is not sticking to their party colours, which means I have to examine the signs more carefully. 

I just don't think QS has my best interests at heart, and I very much think that the rich socialist elites want to punish the poor working people like myself for their grandiose plans. After all, you are intellectually and culturally superior to me, and have to tell me what to do.

If you are going to call me a trumptard, go fuck yourself. I have heard worse from better than you. I am one of your slaves. Someone who brings you the physical things you need to eat, and do whatever else you want with.

Sorry, but QS is too pie in the sky for me. All kinds of programs, and no way to pay for it. Business will flee, and I will lose my job. The contempt for working people doing hard physical labour like me is obvious. No concept of reality at all.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

progressive17 wrote:

SIf you are going to call me a trumptard, go fuck yourself. I have heard worse from better than you. I am one of your slaves. Someone who brings you the physical things you need to eat, and do whatever else you want with.

Nice quote from Pierre Trudeau. Not a lot of Conservatives would do that. You're a right wing asshole. Perhaps 4chan would welcome you with open arms. Go there and vent.

NorthReport

It appears that CAQ and QS are benefiting from the early polling results. Let's hope that QS continues to do well, and ends up ahead of the PQ, and perhpas even the Offiical Opposition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Quebec_general_ele...

 

NorthReport

Québec solidaire veut augmenter les revenus du Québec de 12 milliards de dollars

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1120263/augmentation-revenus-etat-q...

NorthReport

Bravo!

Québec solidaire promet la gratuité du CPE au doctorat

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2018/201808/26/01-519...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

progressive17 wrote:

So the poster with the birds flying away with all the jobs and investment capital was actually QS and not PQ, even though it was in PQ blue. Now I have noticed that QS is not sticking to their party colours, which means I have to examine the signs more carefully. 

I just don't think QS has my best interests at heart, and I very much think that the rich socialist elites want to punish the poor working people like myself for their grandiose plans. After all, you are intellectually and culturally superior to me, and have to tell me what to do.

If you are going to call me a trumptard, go fuck yourself. I have heard worse from better than you. I am one of your slaves. Someone who brings you the physical things you need to eat, and do whatever else you want with.

Sorry, but QS is too pie in the sky for me. All kinds of programs, and no way to pay for it. Business will flee, and I will lose my job. The contempt for working people doing hard physical labour like me is obvious. No concept of reality at all.

You fund the programs by taxing the rich.  That's what a decent society does.  If the rich flee, the people, the working people, can run the economy ourselves.  No policies the rich would approve of would ever benefit ordinary working people.  The rich wouldn't accept the PQ program, for that matter.

And you know perfectly well that nobody in QS is rich, or in any sense an elitist.  It's not elitist simply to have a vision of a different life.  If the left renounces everything visionary, if we limit ourselves solely to the small-scale and fiscally conservative, what does that even leave that isn't just running the country like the Cons or the CAQ?  TRUE elitism is A)presuming to speak for all working people, as you are doing here; B)Implying that working people never have any dream other than getting rich enough not to work, as you seem to do.

Clearly, you were never ever "progressive", and your mask has slipped big time.  And you are not the only person on this board who knows what it is to do "hard, physical labor"-I worked on a ferry boat as a steward for 16 years, cleaning galley floors, cleaning staterooms, cleaning bathrooms, helping load in tons of stores every week so there would be food, supplies, linen and towels for passengers and crew alike.

Alan has done hard physical labor too.  So have most people who post here-especially anyone who posts here who has ever maintained a home or raised children.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

progressive17 wrote:

Clearly, you were never ever "progressive", and your mask has slipped big time.  And you are not the only person on this board who knows what it is to do "hard, physical labor"-I worked on a ferry boat as a steward for 16 years, cleaning galley floors, cleaning staterooms, cleaning bathrooms, helping load in tons of stores every week so there would be food, supplies, linen and towels for passengers and crew alike.

Alan has done hard physical labor too.  So have most people who post here-especially anyone who posts here who has ever maintained a home or raised children.

Thanks Ken. I worked hard labour all my life. I paid into the insurance I currently collect. ' progrewssive' 17 is a right winger. I have no idea what he's doing here. I think everyone here are current and former hard labor workers that know very well the value of a dollar.

' progressive' 17 seems to believe he's the only one working in the country and the rest of us are just leeching off whatever it is we can leech on.

He's an asshole. He doesn't realize that this forum is about worker's rights. It's about living in a fair and just society. If that offends ' progressive' 17, tough cookies,eh?

lagatta4

The birds in the picture are on the background of the Québec flag, which does NOT belong to the PQ. The Liberal party has also featured references to the official flag,  as have others.

As I've pointed out, all these "non-traditional" posters have been made by - mostly young - artists and graphic designers and spotlight a great many themes - this one is about writing Québec culture. The "teeth" one seems to be the most popular.

I would like there to be one about education that says CPE (centre de la petite enfance - educational day care centres) to doctorate culminating in a skilled trade, as well as a doctorate, but CÉGEPS, including the expensive to run vocational programmes, are already free of charge to students and can lead to very lucrative trades postings. The important point about CÉGEPS is that there is a common trunk and mandatory courses for both vocational and pre-academic stream students, ensuring a high level of general education for all. This is more and more important in the 21st century.

Once again, here is the mini-site spotlighting the array of posters and their themes: https://monaffiche.quebecsolidaire.net/ The artists come from many different backgrounds and regions of Québec; the man who produced the public transport poster comes from Matane in the Gaspé, not a major city, and reminds us that public transport also includes intercity transport between towns in more "remote" regions, which has been cut here as elsewhere.

The subtitles are for deaf people, but also very useful for non-francophones.

Unionist

lagatta4 wrote:

I would like there to be one about education that says CPE (centre de la petite enfance - educational day care centres) to doctorate culminating in a skilled trade, as well as a doctorate, but CÉGEPS, including the expensive to run vocational programmes, are already free of charge to students and can lead to very lucrative trades postings. The important point about CÉGEPS is that there is a common trunk and mandatory courses for both vocational and pre-academic stream students, ensuring a high level of general education for all. This is more and more important in the 21st century.

Very important point - thanks for that, lagatta. And I find it both sad and amazing that the Rest Of Canada hasn't yet picked up on the fact that Québec has been providing free-of-charge public education in skilled trades and many other vocations for 52 years now. This simply does not exist anywhere else. And it's really not just about "doctorates" - but as you point out, by providing an initial common core of instruction, the "academic" level overall is improved.

pietro_bcc

Those Forum results are so outside what the rest of the firms are showing pretty much across the board that I don't trust them unless other firms start going in that direction, CROP and Leger show the Liberals narrowing the lead since August and that's more what I'd expect now that more people are paying attention.

All these polls were taken before the election launch, so it'll be interesting to see how they evolve after the platforms are revealed and the debates are had.

josh

Forum should rename itself Outlier.  And for the last year or so, almost always in a conservative direction.

lagatta4

For the moment, Andrés Fontecilla is leading in Laurier-Dorion (Villeray- Parc-X).

MegB

progressive17 wrote:

Sorry, my current keyboard does not do French accents. I am sorry if my technological disability offends you.

And whatever climbdown you want from her statement saying that life was not about work, as a worker I found it incredibly offensive. Even in hunter-gatherer societies, we had to hunt and gather in order to eat. We had to make or seek shelters, and make clothes and bedding. Human beings cannot survive without real physical work being done. Perhaps there are some who are so far removed from real physical work that they think it is a curse. This kind of ridiculous idealism can only lead to starvation and death, ironically from your own socialist dicator.

Wow. Just wow. You seem to have forgotten that this is a progressive board. If you need a definition of that you shouldn't be here. So, you can lurk, you can post in ways that reflect babble standards, you can leave quietly or I can ban you. your choice.

Regarding the "tards", nope. Completely unacceptible. Unless babble has become a place where using insults that denigrate people with developmental disabilities is okay, you don't get to "tard" anyone. Sweet jebus, I can't believe that I even had to state this. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

MegB wrote:

progressive17 wrote:

Sorry, my current keyboard does not do French accents. I am sorry if my technological disability offends you.

And whatever climbdown you want from her statement saying that life was not about work, as a worker I found it incredibly offensive. Even in hunter-gatherer societies, we had to hunt and gather in order to eat. We had to make or seek shelters, and make clothes and bedding. Human beings cannot survive without real physical work being done. Perhaps there are some who are so far removed from real physical work that they think it is a curse. This kind of ridiculous idealism can only lead to starvation and death, ironically from your own socialist dicator.

Wow. Just wow. You seem to have forgotten that this is a progressive board. If you need a definition of that you shouldn't be here. So, you can lurk, you can post in ways that reflect babble standards, you can leave quietly or I can ban you. your choice.

Regarding the "tards", nope. Completely unacceptible. Unless babble has become a place where using insults that denigrate people with developmental disabilities is okay, you don't get to "tard" anyone. Sweet jebus, I can't believe that I even had to state this. 

I apologize about the tard comment. I wasn't trying to disparage anyone but Trump supporters who are the stupidest people on planet Earth. I can assure you that won't happen again.

'progressive' 17's  hard right comment really pissed me off.

Thanks for signing off on it.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

I did ask to be banned in private message quite some time ago. So please ban me. No one is going to tell me what I can say and what I cannot say. I am sure I will find other places on the Internet where I can say what has to be said. 
 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

progressive17 wrote:

I did ask to be banned in private message quite some time ago. So please ban me. No one is going to tell me what I can say and what I cannot say. I am sure I will find other places on the Internet where I can say what has to be said. 
 

There's 4chan. There's Rebel Media. There are a ton of groups on reddit. Take your pick. Good riddance.

lagatta4

Pretty much all fora have rules or codes of conduct - if not people could advocate for such horrors as the killing of X group of people. I don't think anyone here wants that.

bekayne

josh wrote:

Forum should rename itself Outlier.  And for the last year or so, almost always in a conservative direction.

They had that poll in the Ontatio election where the NDP was 13% ahead. They had a federal poll where the Conservatives were 16% ahead. With Forum, "19 times out of 20" translates to "most of the time, we think".

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

progressive17 wrote:

I did ask to be banned in private message quite some time ago. So please ban me. No one is going to tell me what I can say and what I cannot say. I am sure I will find other places on the Internet where I can say what has to be said. 
 

What you "said" wasn't something that "had to be said" at all. It was a distortion of and unjustified attack on the words, ideas and even class status on Manon Masse'. For some reason, you even accused her of being rich, something you had no reason to do. If you don't want to vote QS, fine-but you can do that without lying about them and without accusing them of things you know perfectly well they don't feel, such as contempt for the working class, a class most of QS are lifetime members of.

pietro_bcc

https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-election-caq-leading-but-...

First poll since the campaign launched.

CAQ 37% (+1)

Lib 32% (+2)

PQ 19% (+1)

QS 8% (-2)

Other 4% (-2)

Also once again the Liberals are 1st among the young, likely because of their stances on identity and immigrations. https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/535504/sondage-le-plq-et-la-ca... Interesting that the age group that cost them the 2012 election are now the main group that's keeping them afloat.

MegB

progressive17 wrote:

I did ask to be banned in private message quite some time ago. So please ban me. No one is going to tell me what I can say and what I cannot say. I am sure I will find other places on the Internet where I can say what has to be said. 
 

You did, and I asked you if you were sure. No response. Well, since you've expressed no desire to follow babble policy, you're banned. As for saying what has to be said, good luck with that. Babble is all about speaking truth to power, a concept which you clearly don't understand. Yes, there are plenty of places on the Internet where your right wing disinformation will be welcome. Have at 'em.

josh

Why ask to be banned?  Just don't post.  Sounds like a martyr complex.

lagatta4

Manon Massé at Dialogue jeunesse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6GAWBsYJ3w

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

QS billboards in the neighbourhood (and there's a lot of them) instead of putting up the candidate's smiling face all over, they are all their policies. Cutting the cost of public transit in half, free college etc.. The only billboards with faces is just one with both Massé and Nadeau- Dubois face. It's unique and smart. They are making people look at their platform to see for themselves what the party stands for instead of QS as a party being picked apart by mainstream media.

The only real hiccup in their campaign so far was acknowleging Anglophones. Which again, was smart to show that the party is inclusionary. Too bad they were shamed into backing away from that comment.

Walking the streets their platform is all there for everyone to see. It's frustrating that a party of the people can't seem to make it passed 10%. The alternative, Legault, is no friend of the public and the sheeple are looking to his wretched party as an alternative. It's sad. Legault offers NOTHING to the working class and the poor. Nothing. In fact they are the ones who are going to get hit hardest by this disgusting man and his despicable party.

Anyway,I think QS is promoting themselves really well on the main roads. One day their message will get through the public's thick skulls.

lagatta4

One of the problems "acknowledging anglophones", as well as people who speak other languages, is simply $$$. I don't have time to translate everything for them nowadays, as I'm involved in a lot of bureaucratic stuff and looking for translating and editing/copy-editing jobbines.  So are the other qualified people I know.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

One of the problems "acknowledging anglophones", as well as people who speak other languages, is simply $$$. I don't have time to translate everything for them nowadays, as I'm involved in a lot of bureaucratic stuff and looking for translating and editing/copy-editing jobbines.  So are the other qualified people I know.

 What's with the parentheses on acknowleging anglophones? We exist  whether you like it or not. For 200 years. I think Manon Masse saying that there is an English community in Quebec was smart. Sounds like you were one of the people who shamed them for it. In which case,shame on you.

lagatta4

I did no such thing. It was a straight quote. I'm for acknowledging all the language and cultural groups we have the resources to accommodate.  And as of now QS has the most diverse pool of candidates.

That said, French is the official language of Québec - Manon was criticised - not shamed - for saying French and English were. She said it in English and she herself recognises that her English is less than fluent. I believe Gabriel will be our spokesperson at the English debate, as his English is much better than hers.

In the meantime there will be NO French debate in New Brunswick, an officially bilingual province.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

In the meantime there will be NO French debate in New Brunswick, an officially bilingual province.

Well I certainly don't agree with that. It's wrong and disrespectful. French speaking New Brunswickers should be out in the streets,imo.

And to be clear,I don't see the reason for an English debate since we exist but are the very small minority.

I think the next time someone here in Montreal or asll of Quebec bitches about their rights here, what's happening in New Brunswick should be shoved in their faces. Quebec is much more tolerant evidently.

lagatta4

Nothing wrong with having an English debate though, or one in any language in which a significant number of parties can find a spokesperson who speaks it. Including Indigenous languages.

Yes, the situation in NB is shocking.

http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/5deedfe0-b362-4115-bbdb-6545fc7ccab3__7C... About QS putting some teeth in the debate, and the Liberals actually taking it up (a bit). It is a very important health issue.

And an interesting report in English on QS:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4415337/big-generational-change-quebec-solida...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If QS doesn't make a major breakthrough this time, I'd say they'd really need to take a look at whether sovereigntism needs to be as immediate a goal as they're still insisting on making it.   Yes, they've absord the ON vote, but what good is that?  The largest bloc of votes they could swing their way would be working-class allophones(even though there's no longer any valid reason for anybody to vote PQ, the 18%-20% of the vote they've had for the last three years still seems to be holding up) and sovereigntism first is clearly a deal-breaker for them.  Why doesn't QS focus, instead, on simply working to build a socialist Quebec as the first item on the agenda?  If it's a choice between pursuing votes you COULD get and votes you're never going to get, why continue to focus on the ones you're never going to get?

They could make the switch I'm talking about without renouncing Quebec's right to self-determination, after all.

NorthReport

Fantastic news!

Québec Solidaire proposes ban on sales of gas-powered cars by 2030

https://globalnews.ca/news/4415191/quebec-solidaire-ban-sales-gas-cars-2...

cco

lagatta4 wrote:

Nothing wrong with having an English debate though, or one in any language in which a significant number of parties can find a spokesperson who speaks it. Including Indigenous languages.

This is an interesting idea. I'm certainly in favour of parties providing translations of their platforms, but I wonder if having a formal debate (as opposed to, say, a panel discussion on APTN) among spokespeople in Mohawk or Inuktitut -- languages none of the leaders speak -- would give the wrong impression. Certainly whomever the parties found to speak Mohawk for the debate would care considerably more about the community's concerns than their leaders would, especially when the spokespeople wouldn't even necessarily be candidates, let alone guaranteed some kind of lieutenant-type role in a potential government. By contrast, NB not having a French debate at all completely accurately conveys the truth that none of the NB leaders give enough of a shit about the francophone community to bother.

lagatta4

Ken, I think it is to ward off some very nasty criticism from péquistes that QS is standing firm on that. They are accusing QS of being a federalist trick to destroy the PQ. The issues coming to the fore focus on the environment, and health care including both dental care and an end to ridiculous sums of money earned by medical specialists - often as private entrepreneurs. They now earn more here than they do in Ontario - just compare the price of a prestigious dwelling in Outremont or Lower Westmount to those of such digs in Rosedale or Rockliffe Park...

There has been a very serious campaign here against pipelines and drilling - Coule pas chez nous - and it took place mostly in small towns and villages in eastern Québec, not in supposedly effete urban milieus.

pietro_bcc

Honestly the whole controversy about English being an official language isn't really Massé's fault. It started on twitter and Massé isn't the one who controls the QS twitter account. Some intern was either misinformed of the law or doesn't have a perfect grasp of English made a mistake and then Massé made a badly worded statement on it, no big deal.

I believe Gabriel will be our spokesperson at the English debate, as his English is much better than hers.

All the stories I've read have been saying Massé will be at the english debate.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4397082/quebec-leaders-debate-english/

I'm glad there will be an English debate, it'll be interesting to see the leaders communicate with the anglo community beyond the extremely minimal statements we typically get. Also I agree them cancelling the french New Brunswick debate is disgraceful.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

Ken, I think it is to ward off some very nasty criticism from péquistes that QS is standing firm on that. They are accusing QS of being a federalist trick to destroy the PQ. The issues coming to the fore focus on the environment, and health care including both dental care and an end to ridiculous sums of money earned by medical specialists - often as private entrepreneurs. They now earn more here than they do in Ontario - just compare the price of a prestigious dwelling in Outremont or Lower Westmount to those of such digs in Rosedale or Rockliffe Park...

There has been a very serious campaign here against pipelines and drilling - Coule pas chez nous - and it took place mostly in small towns and villages in eastern Québec, not in supposedly effete urban milieus.

They think QS is a federalist trick to destroy the PQ? I could see them thinking that of the CAQ(which is much more like the sort of party you could picture Harper and Justin having secret meetings to create), but QS?  Is the idea that these people can't let themselves admit that the PQ has been destroying itself by embracing reactionary and xenophobic policies and tropes?

What is your theory, while we're on this subject, for why so much of the leadership of the Quebec labour movement has stayed with the PQ-they have to have realized that party isn't going to win this election, won't even be the official opposition, will have trouble simply re-electing its current caucus, and has been sticking it to the unions ever since Rene Levesque decided the unions were to blame for the defeat of the'80 referendum.  What do you think they're thinking?  It's hard to imagine the labour-PQ alliance passing any sort of test of utility.  Is it just pathological stubbornness?

How has QS been doing recruiting allophone/POC candidates this time, btw?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Why ask to be banned?  Just don't post.  Sounds like a martyr complex.

Death by cop.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Why ask to be banned?  Just don't post.  Sounds like a martyr complex.

Death by cop.

He'll use it to push his "I'm the REAL victim!" narrative on the right-wing sites he usually hangs out on.  So, "death by cop", but without the actual death party, which involves a lot of not breathing anymore and tons of paperwork.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Why ask to be banned?  Just don't post.  Sounds like a martyr complex.

Death by cop.

Sure to be used as bragging rights on other "friendlier" boards.

WWWTT

Hi fellow babblers. I'm trying to understand Quebec politics. For some reason I find it difficult. I partially blame myself for only having a limited grasp of the French language (and that's being generous!) I think I'm losing something in the translation and or cultural differences?

I'm sure if I just keep reading researching more about the players parties background etc etc, perhaps I can visualize some kind of image enough to make a better comment beyond "I'm lost here".

Thanks

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Hi fellow babblers. I'm trying to understand Quebec politics. For some reason I find it difficult. I partially blame myself for only having a limited grasp of the French language (and that's being generous!) I think I'm losing something in the translation and or cultural differences?

I'm sure if I just keep reading researching more about the players parties background etc etc, perhaps I can visualize some kind of image enough to make a better comment beyond "I'm lost here".

Thanks

Lagatta and Unionist are probably your best tutors on the subjects.

Aristotleded24

I find it interesting that there is an English language debate in Quebec. I just assumed that for the longest time the Liberals had that vote locked down. Does this mean that anglophone support for the Liberals is softening, and that the anglophone vote in Quebec is up for grabs in a way it has never been before?

lagatta4

Actually, there has often - perhaps even usually - been a debate in English.

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