Quebec polls and parties 2014

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Stockholm

Hopefully progressives in English Canada who used to harbour a soft spot in their hearts for Gilles Duceppe will now see him for the cynical sell-out that he is.

alan smithee wrote:

scott16 wrote:

can some translate the quote from Duceppe, please?

La souveraineté n'est ni à gauche, ni à droite. Elle est devant. Félicitations à Pierre Karl Péladeau pour sa décision.

 

Sovereignty is neither left or right..It's above it...Congratulations to PKP for his decision.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Stockholm wrote:

Hopefully progressives in English Canada who used to harbour a soft spot in their hearts for Gilles Duceppe will now see him for the cynical sell-out that he is.

 

I agree...Up until today I had alot of respect for Duceppe.

sherpa-finn

Unionist wrote: I think [Martin] sold his shares to a third party. His three sons

You're right!   http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/martin-bows-out-of-csl-1.399495

Sheesh, hard to believe that handing over the business to other family members and then promising to recuse oneself from any related policy discussions would pass even the weakest of conflict of interest guidelines. Pathetic.

So, if Qc laws are anyways similar, Peladeau + Quebecor are in for a free ride.... we will have our own home-grown Berlusconi in the making! (Minus the bunga-bunga stuff.)

Brachina

 I won't speculate if he's got any Bunga Bunga stuff to come out and I for one don't want to know ;p

sherpa-finn

And on the general theme of historical ironies.... there are surely some in Quebec who will recall that it was actually a journalists strike(in 1959) that not only launched Rene Levesque's political career but also served to frame and consolidate his emerging nationalist critique of Canada.

It even qualified as a CBC "Historical Moment"! http://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP15CH2PA3LE.html

So with the passage of time, the PQ transitions from Levesque's side of the picket line over to Peladeau's ...   so where exactly are the Michel Chartrands and Pierre Bourgeaults of today when you really need them?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

cco wrote:

There was a Québec NDP between 1963 and 1989 (Mulcair would enter the National Assembly 5 years later). Just like the Québec Greens, they eventually fell victim to the fact there isn't really a federalist left in Québec.

The Quebec Greens, from what I've seen, also keep falling victim to the "these #$%& francophones are all a bunch of crybabies" tone that their leaders have tended to set.  That may play in the more clueless anglophone yuppie redoubts of Montreal, but...well, there aren't a heck of a lot of those, and anglophone yuppies tend to be too right-of-center even to vote Green.  Yet, they don't seem to learn.

lagatta

Actually Duceppe did do some good as a Bloc MP, fighting for the unemployed and for pensioners. But this is frankly gross.

I met Duceppe decades ago; we were both working on organising a mainly immigrant workforce at local hotels, and hospitals. He worked for the CSN for years.

Brachina

http://montrealsimon.blogspot.ca/2014/03/pierre-karl-peladeau-and-sun-ne...

 

 I honestly think PKP will be a disaster for the PQ and I just understand how anyone on the left can be okay with that rightwing hack running on the same ticket.  This isn't some right of centre business man, its one of the most rightwing media barons in Canada history, someone who makes Conrad Black look like a commie pinko.

 

 If PKP ran for the NDP I'd leave the party.

Brachina

http://albertadiary.ca/2014/03/pkp-to-run-for-pq-why-pkp-snn-and-the-cpc...

 I honestly believe that PKP is looking to make Quebec his private "kingdom", so gaze deeply at the new face of seperatism.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture
DaveW

The Canadian parallel would be the NDP recruiting Black (in his prime) because he was a star candidate, a bit superannuated now but similar

Dying to see the French press on this.

 

DaveW

yea, they are neck and neck, but this is the key finding:

""The poll showed 58 per cent of voters are dissatisfied with Pauline Marois’s government, while 37 per cent are satisfied.""

Pollsters note that voter satisfaction is usually the key variable in voter decisions, and it has never been good for Marois since 2012.

My guess: Liberal minority Govt.

 

lagatta

The problem is that such an outcome would be shitty as well.

Brachina

 I think with PKP in the race QS could end up as high as 10 to 12, very bad for the PQ.

 

 I will so say that if the PQ win with less then the Liberals in popular support they will have no mandate for a referundum and one will not happen.

DaveW
Brachina
DaveW

the first of those articles is terrible political judgement by the Globe:

Lucien Bouchard was a political icon with deep experience when he defected to the Yes side .... Peladeau has never been elected to anything, never campaigned, and is widely despised in key segments of the population.

Terrible analogy.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

What do they say when corporations run the government?

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/pkp-can-keep-his-quebecor-shares-marois-1.172...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture
lagatta

Oh, those are funny. Martine Desjardins as Rob Ford! Amir looks rather fetching as an Occupy Guy Fawkes.

What will they do with Dr Gaëtan Barrette? He already looks like a cross between mayors Rob Ford and Boris Johnson...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

DaveW wrote:

no, I don't like that: so how are candidates supposed to communicate with their public?

It is illegal, and having Babble endorse illegal trashing of electoral signs could possibly be a violation of the Elections Act.

I will check with the mods. Again, bad idea.

It may be a 'bad idea'

But trashing political billboards can give an insight to whom will get elected.

Case in point the 2011 federal election.

Around the city (of course I'm talking about MTL) , in the weeks leading to the elction I was surprised to see so many BQ billboards trashed with vandalism...While very very few NDP billboards were touched.

The outcome?

BQ decimated and NDP almost winning the election.

It's relevent.

lagatta

I don't think babble or rabble was endorsing anything, just reporting on a funny and relevant aspect of the campaign.

Some of the trashing is very nasty though. Most of the trashing of Qs candidate Manon Massé's signs was grossly homophobic (she is a bit "butch" and notably does not depilate her upper lip, which is still pretty much expected of women (confession - I do depilate - while my hair is greying now, it was very dark... ).

Amir and no doubt many other candidates got lots of racist trashing...

DaveW

no, I don't like that: so how are candidates supposed to communicate with their public?

It is illegal, and having Babble endorse illegal trashing of electoral signs could possibly be a violation of the QC Elections Act.

I will check with the mods. Again, bad idea.

DaveW

Yahoo QC news: the comments are pretty negative re Marois wager on Peladeau:

http://fr-ca.actualites.yahoo.com/video/r%C3%A9action-%C3%A0-st-j%C3%A9r...

including:

Le pari de Mme Marois me semble très risqué ... pour son élection, sa majorité et pour son propre poste. M. Péladeau ne semble pas doué pour un rôle de figurant ...

 

sherpa-finn

Just knew this would become an issue....

G+M:  Pierre Karl Peladeau won’t sell Quebecor shares .... even if told to by ethics commissioner.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/pierre-karl-peladeau-wont-sell-quebecor-shares/article17403980/

Unionist

DaveW wrote:

The Canadian parallel would be the NDP recruiting Black (in his prime) because he was a star candidate, a bit superannuated now but similar

Or, could you imagine the NDP ever recruiting a Liberal Party former Lehman Brothers investment banker like Paul Summerville, as a star candidate, to write their economic campaign platform and boost their mainstream economic credibility?

Inconceivable.

 

janfromthebruce

responding to the "off topic" but Paul Summerhill was born into a working class family with humble beginnings. So let's be fair:

Emotional, Summerville remembers being about 21 years old and walking into his home at tea time. He found his mother, whom he said never cried, in tears. The family home had just been remortgaged - at 19 per cent interest.

"It scarred me," Summerville said. As a result, he said he's never borrowed money; never had a mortgage. He drives a 2004 Volvo.

"A lot of times in life, you are judged by where you end up, not where you started," Summerville said. "My vision of Canada is that any Canadian child from a family of limited circumstance can expect to have a chance at lifetime of unlimited opportunities."

At 31, Summerville earned a PhD in international relations in 1988 from the University of Tokyo. He has also studied at universities in Toronto, Jerusalem, Edmonton, Geneva and Osaka."My whole academic background in Canada was with left-of-centre economists."

snip

Summerville said he started to question what he calls the party's "deep suspicion of wealth" and left in September 2006. "The shoes didn't fit," he said

- See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/paul-summerville-1.2957#sthash.Ia64z18...

Don't see the anology as a fit. I think he felt unwelcomed by some in the NDP b/c he did work hard, from humble beginnings and become wealthy. He doesn't in anyway resemble the type of person one is describing of PKP. It justs needs to be fair anology.

Brachina

 As much as I detest Summervilles treachery, he is nothing like PKP.

 

 The problem with PKP isn't that's rich, its that he has made a career of attacking the left, supporting the right, ruining the ecology of the MSM, which was bad to start off with, mistreated his employees. As a bonus he raised Hydro rates and he managed to bankrurpt his companies global assets so the idea that he's a good economic manager is a joke. On a personal level the man is tyrant and an asshole according to many who worked for him.

 So your comparing apples to oranges. A mere back stabbing jerk to pure evil.

Unionist

Brachina wrote:

 

 So your comparing apples to oranges. A mere back stabbing jerk to pure evil.

No. I'm not comparing PKP to Summerville. I'm comparing Layton's handlers to Marois's handlers. Both thinking they have to lick the boots of finance capital in order to get votes.

It was when Layton realized that that's not what real people are looking for that he made a breakthrough. Marois doesn't have an ounce of Layton's principles. May her name disappear from the annals of history as she richly deserves. But before it does, she will do a lot of damage.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Harpercons Québécois style.

Dark,dark days ahead....For the first time I am looking at getting the fuck out of this place.

I want no part of this nightmare-in-waiting....Almost makes me long for the PLQ.(almost)

A nice quote from Duceppe ; Former Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe revealed Monday that Peladeau called him two hours before the announcement, and that Duceppe welcomed it for the PQ and the sovereignty cause.

“It was excellent news for me because I think we have to have people from different horizons. A real coalition - this is what we need,” said Duceppe.

What an unprincipled,pathetic excuse for a potential government.

Brachina

 Okay I understand now Unionist.

 

wage zombie

Unionist wrote:

No. I'm not comparing PKP to Summerville. I'm comparing Layton's handlers to Marois's handlers. Both thinking they have to lick the boots of finance capital in order to get votes.

It was when Layton realized that that's not what real people are looking for that he made a breakthrough. Marois doesn't have an ounce of Layton's principles. May her name disappear from the annals of history as she richly deserves. But before it does, she will do a lot of damage.

I had never heard of Paul Summerville before he was announced as a "start candidate".  Had you?

Unionist

I had heard of him as chief economist of the Royal Bank, but no, not his other functions.

What I remember clearly - and we talked about it here at the time - was using this bigshot to lend "credibility" to the campaign platform on the economy - including "no tax increases" - appearing with him in front of the cameras - etc.

 

bekayne

DaveW wrote:

the first of those articles is terrible political judgement by the Globe:

Lucien Bouchard was a political icon with deep experience when he defected to the Yes side .... Peladeau has never been elected to anything, never campaigned, and is widely despised in key segments of the population.

Terrible analogy.

 

They've got one thing in common: their mentor

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Seems everyone can recognize this conflict of interest.

 

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/03/10/pierre-karl-peladeau-not-...

cco

Presumably he's a "rogue" billionaire because he's not running for the Liberals. It does make me laugh to see the National Post deride someone as a "plutocrat" while publishing pieces by Conrad Black, though. Not to mention, with no apparent sense of irony, calling Sun News Québec-bashing and jingo-Canadian.

DaveW

continuing my comments from Monday, really, recruiting PKP is bad political judgement of the first degree by Marois, and my expectation now is that it means she loses the election, perhaps thumpingly;

the reasons? she has pined for a re-polarization of the elctorate, frustrated by the three-way race it has become in QC  in the last decade.

Problem: in polarizing elections like that (viz 1970 Bourassa sweep, 1980 referendum), there is a clear chance for the 60-40 No wave to have its full impact.

result: the PQ gets swamped.

But that is what you get with a true second-rater as leader, and it is a sign of a party in cyclical decline. Good riddance.

DaveW

continuing my comments from Monday, really, recruiting PKP is bad political judgement of the first degree by Marois, and my expectation now is that it means she loses the election, perhaps thumpingly;

the reasons? she has pined for a re-polarization of the elctorate, frustrated by the three-way race it has become in QC  in the last decade.

Problem: in polarizing elections like that (viz 1970 Bourassa sweep, 1980 referendum), there is a clear chance for the 60-40 No wave to have its full impact.

result: the PQ gets swamped.

But that is what you get with a true second-rater as leader, and it is a sign of a party in cyclical decline. Good riddance.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture
DaveW

continuing my comments from Monday, really, recruiting PKP is bad political judgement of the first degree by Marois, and my expectation now is that it means she loses the election, perhaps thumpingly;

the reasons? she has pined for a re-polarization of the electorate, frustrated by the three-way race in QC  in the last decade.

Problem: in polarizing elections like that (see 1970 Bourassa sweep, 1980 referendum), there is a clear chance for the 60-40 No wave to have its full impact.

result: the PQ gets swamped.

But that is what you get with a true second-rater as leader, and it is a sign of a party in cyclical decline. Good riddance.

Brachina

 I wonder what the Quebec polls will show once PKPs enterance into the election has been fully absorbed by the public.

DaveW

the big recent polls have been neck and neck;

the key figure is 43 -- the percentage of the francophone vote that pretty much guarantees a majority govt.; 2 months ago, the PQ crept above that level, but  since they slipped below to 41 pc

I would expect that drop to continue, and the Liberals to maintain at least a slight statistical lead throughout the campaign

as for PKP,

I think it could either no effect at all, or a minor and temporary positive; they guy is NOT Lucien Bouchard, no matter what an idiot writer at the Globe thought, and he has many many detractors ina province where over 30 per cent of the work force is unionized

Unionist

I speculated last September that the PQ's wedge politics (Charter) was aimed at wiping out the CAQ. I still think that's their main game here.

By the way, on that one point, I fully share their goal.

Speaking of which, Fascist François Legault has just come out with the CAQ's innovative approach to the trade unions:

1. Public disclosure of all finances.

2. Secret votes for all certifications or decertifications.

3. Prohibit using members' dues for "non-labour relations" purposes. Example of what he said he'd ban: Renting buses to transport demonstrators to student protests.

Too bad the assisted suicide bill wasn't passed in time for this election.

 

Brachina

 Those polls were done before the public had a chance to assess PKP running for the PQ, but I expect it will not be the advantage the PQ hoped it would be.

DaveW

no, and PKP has jumped in where they hesitated, talking about independence all the time: that could revive the latent 60-40 No coalition

frankly, I think it will

a worthwhile analysis of PKP impact:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/why-pierre-karl-peladeaus-candidacy-is-a...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I hate to say it but all this talk about Les Nordiques will help the PQ.

Now spearheaded by Mulroney,it's clear that there is an aggressive conservative push going on.

I'm sure Harper is quietly supporting this movement as well.

This conservative wave will ensure PQ power if they win a minority because they've basically adopted all of CAQ's policies.

For now,barring a revolt,the PQ have this election in the bag.

And finally the Harpercons have a hope of breaking through in Québec.

All in all,this is really bad news,not just for Quebecers but for Canadians.

Unionist

lagatta wrote:
Mendacious indeed, as corrupt and thuggish "business unions" like Rambo's North Shore heavy equipment operator's local are absolutely uninterested in funding social or "political" causes -

Lagatta - please don't join the anti-union chorus. The fight against corruption and thuggishness and business orientation is for the workers - not the powdered wigs and smirking rolling eyeballs of France Charbonneau and the CCQ and Pauline Marois.

As for Rambo - with all the respect that I have for you, have you talked to any unionized workers lately? He is a hero. His testimony was brilliant. Not a single charge of "corruption" or "intimidation" has stuck to him. You wouldn't believe the number of workers who have told me: "Why don't we have more union reps like him??"

We all agree that trade unions should be strong allies of all progressive causes and not be "business unions". But as a start, they should fearlessly defend workers. If they don't do that, then they can stuff all their other rhetoric.

Maybe Rambo is a bad guy - I don't know - he even admitted that when he was young and foolish, he used an aggressive tone with the bosses, until he was told that he could catch more flies with honey. But if he's a sold-out treacherous thug, that sure didn't emerge from the days he spent being insulted and bullied by the Commission's interrogators, and standing up to their bullshit at every turn.

And by the way, I friended him on Facebook.

 

lagatta

alan, you are correct. Bread and circuses. Mayor Lebeaume has no concern for the rich heritage of Québec City. Like another heritage city, Halifax, it is becoming ringed with the most deplorable sprawl, and historic buildings have been pulled down.

Legault is disgusting. He is profiting from the Charbonneau commission inquiry on corruption and collusion in the construction industry to smear and attempt to cripple the trade union movement here. Mendacious indeed, as "business unions" like Rambo Gauthier's North Shore heavy equipment operators' local are absolutely uninterested in funding social or "political" causes - Legault explicitly mentioned the student movement; he isn't talking partisan politics, which already has strict oversight here, in terms of labour or business funding.

Problem is, except for the hope that QS could pick up a few seats - which is not at all certain, there is nothing to hope for from these elections. We must not forget how right wing and tainted by corruption the Québec Liberals are either. If QS weren't running, I think I'd simply spoil my ballot.

lagatta

I'll remove "corrupt and thuggish", which are as yet unproven. I certainly don't mean to imply that the bourgeois courts should be cleaning up union corruption. The membership should, as in the Teamsters for a Democratic Union (don't know the outcome, just the attempt).

I'm most certainly NOT anti-union. My point was the way Legault was using the commission as a pretext for crippling the (enviable) Québec labour movement.

Unionist

I know you're not anti-union, lagatta. I envy your life of activism with working people who have needed more support than most others.

By the way, have you seen this?

[url=http://axedumad.com/2014/02/22/rambo-gauthier-joint-les-rangs-de-la-caq/]«Rambo» Gauthier joint les rangs de la CAQ[/url]

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