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Are comedic links between Harper and Hitler going too far?

Tor Sandberg
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Joined: Sep 23 2008

At rabbletv, we just put a video up from http://harperdictatorship.ca using dialogue that Harper might say over a movie about Hitler.

I had some interesting discussions with people, some having no trouble with a parody like this, some finding it hilarious, while some others find it inappropriate and harmful to the cause of the left.

What does the great oracle of babblers believe?

http://www.rabble.ca/rabbletv/program-guide/best-net/welcome-harper-dictatorship


Comments

josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

With right-wing thugs throwing around the word "traitor" and accusing the coalition of attempting a "coup," this is mild in comparison.  Besides, this scene has been used countless times to poke fun at various things.

 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005
There is no comparison between Hitler and Harper. For example, Hitler is dead.

Cueball
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Joined: Dec 23 2003

I guess one should point out that from the point of view of Germans living in the Wiemar republic, Hitler was a bit of a joke, both among his leftist enemies, and even within the established right. They spent more time fighting each other than seriously considering the course that the NSDAP was following. Despite his belicose talk, no one thought he would seriously be able to impugn the authority of the legal underpinnings of the democratic system itself, but he did.

Proroguing parliment, is just such a measure, and an affront to the legal and constitutional authority of parliment, in favour of the power of the executive.

Josh also correctly points out the whole tenor of campaign, including the appeal to nationalism and especially fear mongering about French Canadians are similar features, and I would add to that the appeal to direct demonstrations of force on the streets to sway and intimidate opponents, also comes right out of the Goebel's handbook.


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

Or the Nixon/Atwater/Rove handbook in the U.S.  See Florida 2000.

 


Cueball
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Joined: Dec 23 2003
Oh yeah, I forgot. Doing what can be best described as completely immoral recordings of your opponents private conversations and using them to smear your enemies...

Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
That meme has been done a million times, subtitling that Hitler scene.  I say it's within bounds, and funny.

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

What Cueball said. If conservatives don't appreciate being likened to Hitler, then they should steer well clear of following any of his first goose steps to dictatorial power. 

Unionist wrote:
For example, Hitler is dead.

Apparently not while the Harpers and Crazy Georges of this world are alive and well.

 

 


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

P.S. I'm still laughing!  They did a couple of really good matches, including the "since Stalin" (since he actually says "Stalin") and the thing about Jack cycling (since it sounded like he said something similar to "cycling").  It's one of the better Hitler subtitle spoofs out there, although there are a few places where there's too great a disparity between the length of Hitler's phrase and the subtitle.

I was just thinking that to people who actually speak German, this whole meme wouldn't work at all, because they would actually understand the real words. :D  I played one of the better ones on YouTube (I think it was a hockey one or something) for her a couple of weekends ago, and she thought it was funny, but I think she was probably too distracted by understanding what he was actually saying to find it as hysterical as I did.


Aristotleded24
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Joined: May 24 2005

While we may find these types of things amusing amongst ourselves, I think they are very counter-productive. To the average Canadian, every one of us (those who support the Coalition and those who support Harper) look like we're throwing temper-tantrums and are only interested in powerplays and petty name-calling. Plus, Harper is also using incendiary rhetoric as a means of setting a trap for the Coalition forces, hoping they will lose it.

 Whichever side is more successful at framing this debate will win over public support. So the best course of action is to take the high road, leave the name-calling and caricatures to Harper, and make a solid case as to why the Coalition should go through. If you fight with a pig, you will both get muddy and the pig will love it.


blootcher
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Joined: Sep 14 2008

LOL !

nicely done


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005
Lets face it, none of us like Harper or his gang of thugs, but comparisons between him and the greatest mass murderer in history are counterproductive at best.

bagkitty
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Joined: Aug 27 2008
It comes too close on the heels of the one about arts funding during the election. It is getting tired, the satirists should look elsewhere.

pogge
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Joined: Mar 25 2002

Who's your audience?

If you're only interested in people who already detest Harper and you just want to entertain them then no problem.

If you're trying to reach people who are on the fence -- or even currently support him -- and convince them that he's dangerous and should be opposed, then direct comparisons to Hitler are liable to turn them off before you ever get through to them.

 


Draco
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Joined: Jan 21 2004

In terms of persuading people or making cogent arguments, it's not terribly productive.

In terms of over-the-top satire, that video is fucking hiliarious.  Justin Trudeau... Laughing


Agent 204
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Joined: Nov 19 2003
I thought it was great!

Cueball
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Joined: Dec 23 2003
Perhaps its a generational thing. Spoofs on Hitler and his outrageous fits of anger are embedded in British cultural history, as much as japes against the Queen.

ikat381
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Joined: Oct 13 2008

For anyone interested, here's a sample of the vast library of remixed subtitles from that Der Untergang movie. Almost nothing is safe from getting Der Unterganged:

http://laughingsquid.com/hitler-video-remix-meme/


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002

My family thinks its funny.

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

What a laugh riot! I had no idea he was such a party animal. No wonder he shut down parliament. Woohoo!


Malcolm
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Joined: Mar 14 2004

Godwin's law.


the regina mom
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Joined: Oct 21 2008
Given Harper's latest, I think we can do away with Godwin's law.

Cueball
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Joined: Dec 23 2003
By the way, people might want to rent the original film.

Agent 204
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Joined: Nov 19 2003
What film is it, anyway? I've seen that clip used several times, with different subtitles, but I've never seen the original.

Star Spangled C...
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Joined: Sep 15 2008

I didn't find it funny and neither would my grandfather who lost his parents and 6 of his siblings to Hitler's genocide.

When Harper kills 6 million people...hell, when he kills 6 people... I won't be so offended by comparisons to Hitler.


Stargazer
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Joined: Jun 9 2004

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/

Author: Hermes Brandt from Amsterdam, Netherlands

Der Untergang makes you live the horrors and craziness of war. Bruno Ganz's interpretation of Adolf Hitler is worthy of an Oscar. He is completely believable. Also the rest of the cast performs admirably. You feel transported to Berlin as it was bombarded by the Russians. You get a very clear insight (or an impression?) in how the military decisions were taken during those final days of the war. The movie balances well between large-scale effects of bombs exploding in ruined streets and depictions of different persons going though the experience – from Hitler and his staff in the well-protected bunkers to the principal military commanders torn between reason and loyalty and German civilians trapped in an inferno. The movie is neither pro-Nazi nor does it depict all Nazis as mindless monsters. It gives an impression of utter realism. Go see it in a good cinema – your seat will tremble as the bombs explode. A nine out of ten.

 


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

I enjoyed it in spite of myself.

 

I struggle whether comparisons to Hitler are verboten because of the horrific nature of his crimes. I vacillate on my answer to this one. Having studies fascism and the Holocaust, I am aware of the doctrine of Hitlerian exceptionalism. I think on balance it is a dangerous one and comparisons can be made betwwen that historic epoch and others. That being said the similarities between Hitler and harper are minimal.


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004
That clip of Downfall has been "subtitled" with dialogue relating to everything form the Super Bowl, to the Vancouver Canucks to the Torchwood season finale to Hilary Clinton's loss in the primaries.

Sarann
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Joined: Dec 23 2006
I will again suggest that people check out Shadia Drury's writings about the  neoconservatives and the thinkers who inspire them.  Benign  dictatorship? Convince yourself it is OK to lie a lot to bring it about?  Keep people in the dark? Heads up Canadians.

lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002
Off-topic for Harper, but people interested in "Downfall" might also want to view the earlier film "Rosa Luxemburg" to get a glimpse of what was lost in the hopes for a revolution in Germany. The film centres a bit too much on Luxemburg's years in jail for opposing the "Great War", and has other flaws, but it is important to see what was defeated when looking at the rise and fall of Nazism.

aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004
Ironically, the actor who played Karl Liebknecht in Rosa Luxemburg also played Hitler in Downfall.

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