Recent discussions on this web site have led me to believe that there is an increase in interest in discussion about "guns and ammo". Maybe we a need for a pro "Guns and Ammo" forum, where we can discuss "Guns and Ammo" from a pro- "Guns and Ammo" point of view.
Thoughts?
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Not a chance. It'll kill the credibility of babble, in my opinion.
There is this thread:
The Waepman Threde
Here is a good one: M4A1.
Love these guys!
Same idiot (and equally moronic "trainer") with an Ak47
That is why and how people get hurt around firearms.
I am not sure that qualifies as a pro-"guns and ammo" viewpoint.
This is much more pro-"guns and ammo".
The Sling
The sling was likely mankind's first, true projectile weapon. It generally consists of two cords and a pouch. These cords are held in one hand and a projectile is placed in the pouch. The length of the sling provides greater mechanical advantage than one's arms. Projectiles can be slung over 1500 feet (450m) at speeds exceeding 250 miles per hour (400 kph). The sling is unique in that the movement of the weapon is merely an extension of the user's body. The power and accuracy of the weapon is not by technological means, but rather user skill. The connection between slinger and sling is an intimate one, a relationship rarely found in modern weaponry.
Much more effective and personal in my view.
There are no foreign fighters in Iraq, that is a American military myth.
They should know they were the first foreign fighters in.
Michele shoots an MP5
Morgan with an MP5
The MP-5 is a easy weapon to fire as seen in the videos.
Wait, did an NDP thread end up discussing firearms? I'm doing a study, you see.
I believe it is a rural/urban issue. The people from the GTA know what is the best for everyone, just ask them. Toronto does know have enough electricity, just build power stations in rural areas. If Toronto does not have enough dumps, just build more in rural areas.
I believe it is a rural/urban issue. The people from the GTA know what is the best for everyone, just ask them. Toronto does know have enough electricity, just build power stations in rural areas. If Toronto does not have enough dumps, just build more in rural areas.
Webgear, have you considered running for politics? Because those are some awesome solutions I can get behind.
Hell, you make it sound like a rural area will be great for my new business - a shit storm factory.
Liquified cow manure hosed through a high speed wind turbine?
I think manure could be profitably pelletized and sold back to urbanites at a premium. Strictly speaking as businessperson, of course.
Papa Bull you can not create jobs in rural areas, the money needs to stay in the cities.
I have too much self respect to become a politician; I can not lie to everyone or kiss enough ass.
This is my new favourite thread.
Liquified cow manure hosed through a high speed wind turbine?
I can see you're in the business as well. I hate to get into scatological terminology (I know many of you don't have a BS degree, so bear with me), but many people would describe the job as crappy at best and shitty at worst
Is there like a pun master of Canada? Because there are poet laureates, and I think I deserve just as much guvmint money as Bukowski for my brilliant puns. I think I should be given that job.
Michele shoots an MP5
Morgan with an MP5
The MP-5 is a easy weapon to fire as seen in the videos.
Ahh but the assertion is that in single shot mode it is as accurate, or more than a handgun. That one would use it in single shot mode, fired from the shoulder like a rifle. Frankly, I don't think there is much of a case for this view.:
Morgan Again with a handgun.
The whole point of an SMG is that its rate of fire ensures accuracy.
From the US Army weapon identification guide, listed under RPG.
I link those videos to show the how easy the MP-5 was to use. It is light and compact, very little recoil even when fired in full automatic mode.
I think the longer barrel length and the weapon being more stable (because it held tightly into the body) would be the reason why it is more accurate in single shot mode than a pistol.
The longer barrel length would be the greatest factor, a pistol at best is only effective at 30m for the average person, while an MP-5 could be fired over 150 meters.
Personally, I never use automatic mode, there is no need to.
The camera and photoshop software are even more dangerous than a firearm these days.
I think the longer barrel length and the weapon being more stable (because it held tightly into the body) would be the reason why it is more accurate in single shot mode than a pistol.
Right but you are ignoring the issue of deployment. The above requires "setting up". Getting into position. Exposing oneself.
The longer barrel length would be the greatest factor, a pistol at best is only effective at 30m for the average person, while an MP-5 could be fired over 150 meters.
Which would then require the police to approach the person a closer range, as opposed to firing multiple rounds in automatic mode, in the general direction of the target, since on automatic mode, we can see Morgan getting serious deflection from recoil, even if it is easy to fire.
There are no foreign fighters in Iraq, that is a American military myth.
There are no foreign fighters [Al Qaeda] in Afghanistan, that is an American myth.
U.S. officer: Seen any foreign terrorists lately?
Afghani/Iraqi: Yeah. You.
Well I would only guess that she is not properly trained to use firearms as is evidently seen in the videos. She holds the weapon awkwardly, her right elbow is out to far in my opinion.
You can tell this is first experience at using an MP-5, she has no trigger control nor does understand where the magazine release is on the weapon. She is not familiar with the weapon.
A properly trained individual would not have these flaws, thus cutting down the chance of deflection. Most police and military types are now taught the double tap method of shooting, which bring a greater amount of accuracy and less recoil.
Well in terms of training, so far in all these videos, Mr. Turkish Moujhadeen with the nice voice is the only one who seems to have taken the issue of using the safety catch seriously.
The whole point of an SMG is that its rate of fire ensures accuracy.
I take it you mean that sarcastically?
Sorry Cueball, I did not think we were talking about tactics. I was only pointing out the mechanics of the weapons.
It was been my experience talking about tactics you require detail diagrams and clear case scenarios to be effective at breaking down what was successful and were your errors are.
If we are talking about an event on parliament hill, we would need a clear scenario first.
I link those videos to show the how easy the MP-5 was to use. It is light and compact, very little recoil even when fired in full automatic mode.
I think the longer barrel length and the weapon being more stable (because it held tightly into the body) would be the reason why it is more accurate in single shot mode than a pistol.
The longer barrel length would be the greatest factor, a pistol at best is only effective at 30m for the average person, while an MP-5 could be fired over 150 meters.
Personally, I never use automatic mode, there is no need to.
Full auto causes the barrel to creep upward. You probably know that.
I blame western culture on fire arms training and shooting incidents, to many people watch movies and TV shows think they can fire weapons in a professional manner.
I blame taking firearms training away from the boy scouts and the cadets the most in Canada.
The whole point of an SMG is that its rate of fire ensures accuracy.
I take it you mean that sarcastically?
In the sense that more things are heading in the direction you want, so that you are more likely to hit what you are aiming at.
Sorry Cueball, I did not think we were talking about tactics. I was only pointing out the mechanics of the weapons.
It was been my experience talking about tactics you require detail diagrams and clear case scenarios to be effective at breaking down what was successful and were your errors are.
If we are talking about an event on parliament hill, we would need a clear scenario first.
Ok. Some young folks are approaching parliment hill with banners saying Greenpeace on them. Our job is to stop them scaling the building and deploying the banners.
Simple, give them lots of high quality pot to smoke.
Having the police handing out pot to teenagers might be a bit of a problem because there maybe "insurgents" around carrying RPG's like the one I pictured above.
I blame taking firearms training away from the boy scouts and the cadets the most in Canada.
I view shooting the same as fucking. I wouldn't teach my kids under the age of 18 to fuck. So I wouldn't teach my kids under the age of 18 to shoot either.
18 is young enough to learn how to kill and procreate.
Teaching children under the age of 18 how to fuck is illegal.
Cueball
Hand pot out to everyone, everyone would nice and relaxed and the we could talk about our problems, issues and concerns.
Frmsldr
Wow, you would not teach your kids to fuck. I would hate to be them.
So, we are issuing bags of pot to the RCMP on parliment hill. Excelent idea.
Teaching children under the age of 18 how to fuck is illegal.
So should teaching children under the age of 18 how to shoot. Except, perhaps, for the few Inuit who still live the traditional lifestyle.
So maybe we should open up the "Guns and Ammo" forum, and call it the "Guns, Ammo and Pot" forum?
No protesters would be shot; non violent measure must be taken to ensure the peace is kept.
Or will could gun them down and then plant weapons on them afterwards.
I like the name guns, ammo and pot.
That is a wise choice.
Cueball
Hand pot out to everyone, everyone would nice and relaxed and the we could talk about our problems, issues and concerns.
Frmsldr
Wow, you would not teach your kids to fuck. I would hate to be them.
Under the age of 18 that is.
Sorry if I pissed off Herrs Hitler and Himmler for not teaching our boys to be virile prolific warrior soldiers and our girls to be prolific childbearers and mothers starting at the age of 14 for both.
No protesters would be shot; non violent measure must be taken to ensure the peace is kept.
Or will could gun them down and then plant weapons on them afterwards.
In the latter case it probably wont be necessary to plant anything on them at all since they no doubt will be carrying small RPG's like this:
Frmsldr
I think you have broken the record for linking Hitler and fascism to pot, firearms and fucking in one single paragraph.
Cueball
That cell phone could be a thermite grenade.
I guess that would depend on wether or not the person carrying it had been stoned by pot wielding police officers.
Maybe before you can go on to parliament hill, you have to past through a set of barricades where you have to become naked and smoke some joints before entering.
I think pot is the miracle plant, it can solve everything.
Teaching children under the age of 18 how to fuck is illegal.
Well it was 14 but now with Harper its 16, not 18
Peace Activist Has To Admit Barrett .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Is Pretty Cool
Everytime I see this thread title on TAT I wonder what's next, will babble start accepting ads from the NRA?
I learned to shoot at 16 as a member of the Reserves. Sorry Frmsldr.
Do you think they'd pay well, Boom Boom? :D (Kidding, kidding!)
Think of the hits they would get, Michelle.
I learned to shoot at 16 as a member of the Reserves. Sorry Frmsldr.
My Grandpa taught me how to shoot when I was 11-12, so by the time I got to the Reserves I was a decent shot already.
(mod hat off just to be clear)
Fmrsldr, I find your conflation of the concepts of shooting and fucking to be um...clinically interesting.
Personally, I learned to do both prior to the age of 18, though I tended to score better on the range with a 22. As a teen, I had a greater problem with recoil from potential partners than I had with a with a rifle.
I believe responsibility is best taught young.
I think I was 10 years old when my father started teaching me to shoot. He started teaching me about guns and safety earlier than that, though - they were in the house, there were rules that were followed. I was given my own firearm when I was 12.
Ya, was about that age too timebandit, perhaps younger, as we were allowed to take the pellet rifle out and shoot gophers long before being able to use the 22. And I was shooting the muskrats in the slough who were eating baby ducks, by the time I was 10.
And I was raised knowing gun safety, and you know, we knew it made things dead, and treated it/them according. By the time I hit the Reserves, I was an excellent shot. Am not so sure kids these days understand dead, as to me it seems they have a more abstract view of death, that is not so personally aware, somehow. Really do not know how to explain it, but there is a noticable difference in the perceptions of the reality of death.
Lawyers, guns and money.
Ammo, guns and pot.
Training kids about guns immediately brings to mind a picture of myself at 12, with a scope imprint above my nose.
[I had been warned about that one.]
Lawyers, guns and money.
Ammo, guns and pot.
Ha ha, great weekend activities in a can.
Well, since everyone is giving their gun confessions, I might as well share.
Shot a shotgun around eight. Was gifted with a real pellet gun around 12, which was used to ping off little green plastic army men I'd set up in terrain.
Much later, I went through the PAL licencing system and hunter training course, both full day of lessons plus two tests.
Shooting things to kill them.... Shooting a squirrel with a shotgun will separate the killers from the hunters.
In the 1980s I was located in northern Ontario, most of my friends there were hunters and anglers, so naturally I joined the local sportsmen's clubs, as well as the Ontario Handgun Association, and we used the local OPP firing range for shooting events. I grew tired of this scene very quickly, because there were (is) a lot of hard core right wing nuts in some of these clubs, and I quit them all after a couple of years. I never really enjoyed being in them at all, just peer pressure of the time.
Guns and Ammo Forum
Last post
Boom Boom
We used to have a thread where we could post humorous or interesting inadvertent title/poster combinations. I liked this one. Too bad I can't post it properly.
"Torture in...PrivacyRules"
In the 1980s I was located in northern Ontario, most of my friends there were hunters and anglers, so naturally I joined the local sportsmen's clubs, as well as the Ontario Handgun Association, and we used the local OPP firing range for shooting events. I grew tired of this scene very quickly, because there were (is) a lot of hard core right wing nuts in some of these clubs, and I quit them all after a couple of years. I never really enjoyed being in them at all, just peer pressure of the time.
Look. This hardly qualifies as a "pro- Guns and Ammo" point of view. So if you can't keep within the bounds of the forum rules, I am going to have to stop asking you to post here until you can.
I learned to shoot at 16 as a member of the Reserves. Sorry Frmsldr.
Looking back at it now, how do you feel about that?
How do you feel about teaching children to shoot?
How do you feel about militarizing children?
How do you feel about indoctrinating children into soldiers?
This is the reason why Canada no longer trains Cadets to shoot.
Hence also my oblique references to Nazi/Hitler Jugend.
Having read the posts after Caissa's, I see a distinction between the state and military training of children to shoot and children learning to shoot at home, which is, of course, not to "militarize" them.
Since the 1980s, Canada has changed, it is more urban. There is less need and "natural" opportunity for children to learn to shoot.
As remind pointed out, children today have a less concrete concept of death. Why children have a more abstract concept of death is because the majority of Canadian children live in an urban setting and more and more children have less and less access to guns. First hand experience with real guns has been replaced with vicarious experiences by playing "war", "cops and robbers" and "coyboys and Indians" with plastic guns, watching Hollywood war, action, gangster and western movies and by playing war and violent video games that involve guns and weapons and where the object is to kill one's "enemy" or rival and/or the "bad guys".
This is the current direction of desensitizing children and young people to death and killing and harming others and glorifying war and the militarization of our young specifically, and our society generally (IMO).
My father was a naval reserve officer, sportsman and liberal. The first two and the last may seem like contradictions, but there it is. Part of the human condition.
I learned to shoot very young. My first gun was a pretty little 20 guage shotgun. I also knew how to fire a 22. We lived in the city, too. I played wild west, cops and robbers and had all manner of toy guns, from the cap handguns to pretend machine guns and all shapes and sizes in between. I also have protested Canadian involvement in war, and although I am well aware of how to dress a deer, I didn't make it through the first scene in Saving Private Ryan.
Guess the desensitization didn't work. Maybe it's not as much as the hype makes it out to be.
Frmsldr
I agree today's western culture is desensitizing children, music, art work, movies, publications are all harmful to kids.
Are there any studies out there that prove whether rural children or urban children are use to death?
Frmsldr
I agree today's western culture is desensitizing children, music, art work, movies, publications are all harmful to kids.
Are there any studies out there that prove whether rural children or urban children are use to death?
Don't know of any myself. My ignorance doesn't preclude their existence. There probably are a number of psychologists and sociologists who have done research into this area.
My father was a naval reserve officer, sportsman and liberal. The first two and the last may seem like contradictions, but there it is. Part of the human condition.
I learned to shoot very young. My first gun was a pretty little 20 guage shotgun. I also knew how to fire a 22. We lived in the city, too. I played wild west, cops and robbers and had all manner of toy guns, from the cap handguns to pretend machine guns and all shapes and sizes in between. I also have protested Canadian involvement in war, and although I am well aware of how to dress a deer, I didn't make it through the first scene in Saving Private Ryan.
Guess the desensitization didn't work. Maybe it's not as much as the hype makes it out to be.
Your personal childhood experiences were very much like mine.
I started out pro military, pro war, right wing, redneck, pro Conservative. Now I'm antiwar and strongly support grass roots democracy, egalitarianism, civil liberties to the point of being a libertine, politically I vote NDP. Philosophically, I am very interested in Marxist egalitarianism, critique of capitalist economics and the Marxist concept of a managed "democratic" economy.
I think the influencing factors that may make a differnce between people is their level of and educational experiences, personal life experiences and (possibly) level of intelligence.
I started out pro military, pro war, right wing, redneck, pro Conservative. Now I'm antiwar and strongly support grass roots democracy, egalitarianism, civil liberties to the point of being a libertine
I'm blushing.
I am looking at a getting a new deer rifle this summer. I am thinking about either a Remington 700 or a reproduction Lee Enfield, both are cambered in .308 however its hard to find 700 with iron sights.
I am not a fan of scopes, in my opinion they limit the shooters ability. I was taught to shoot with iron sights, never used a scope until 1995.
I will likely teach my daughter to shoot this spring on an old .22 single shot bolt action that's been in the family since the 1920s.
My father was a naval reserve officer, sportsman and liberal. The first two and the last may seem like contradictions, but there it is. Part of the human condition.
I learned to shoot very young. My first gun was a pretty little 20 guage shotgun. I also knew how to fire a 22. We lived in the city, too. I played wild west, cops and robbers and had all manner of toy guns, from the cap handguns to pretend machine guns and all shapes and sizes in between. I also have protested Canadian involvement in war, and although I am well aware of how to dress a deer, I didn't make it through the first scene in Saving Private Ryan.
Guess the desensitization didn't work. Maybe it's not as much as the hype makes it out to be.
Your personal childhood experiences were very much like mine.
I started out pro military, pro war, right wing, redneck, pro Conservative. Now I'm antiwar and strongly support grass roots democracy, egalitarianism, civil liberties to the point of being a libertine, politically I vote NDP. Philosophically, I am very interested in Marxist egalitarianism, critique of capitalist economics and the Marxist concept of a managed "democratic" economy.
I think the influencing factors that may make a differnce between people is their level of and educational experiences, personal life experiences and (possibly) level of intelligence.
If you started out right wing, redneck and pro Conservative, then your childhood was nothing like mine.
It is possible to have hunting and the military as part of your milieu and not be a redneck or a Conservative.
Teaching children under the age of 18 how to fuck is illegal.
Well it was 14 but now with Harper its 16, not 18
How heterosexist of you.
If you started out right wing, redneck and pro Conservative, then your childhood was nothing like mine.
It is possible to have hunting and the military as part of your milieu and not be a redneck or a Conservative.
I imagine one doesn't become interested in politics or develop a "political identity" until the teenage years at the earliest.
I imagine that your playing wild west, cops and robbers and playing with toy guns was done when you were a child and protesting Canadian involvement in war, dressing game and when you watched Saving Private Ryan was done when you reached adulthood.
In my case, it was playing with guns, playing "war", "cops and robbers", "cowboys and Indians", watching Hollywood movies that glorified war and shooting real guns at an early age that attracted me to the military and informed and influenced my "political identity".
As I grew older, gained more life experiences and learned more (some college education) but mostly through reading books of interest, seeking interesting internet sites (as opposed to porn
, yes I do that too for entertainment) and talking to as many different people as I can - in real life, babble is the only internet site where I talk to people online - I find more can be learned from real situations than "virtual" (on the net ones).
In other words, as I grow into an adult (a lifelong process) I become more of a "contradiction", as you might put it. This was not the case when I was a child.
Were you a "contradiction" or perhaps better still, an enigma in this sense, when you were a child or did you change and evolve as you grow older, as is happening with me?
I view shooting the same as fucking. I wouldn't teach my kids under the age of 18 to fuck. So I wouldn't teach my kids under the age of 18 to shoot either.
18 is young enough to learn how to kill and procreate.
Shooting, procreating... and driving. Should be taught by professionals, not amateurs... your children will just pick up your mistakes if you try to teach them yourself.
Teaching children under the age of 18 how to fuck is illegal.
Well it was 14 but now with Harper its 16, not 18
How heterosexist of you.
Is that heterosexist, or retrosexist?
I view shooting the same as fucking. I wouldn't teach my kids under the age of 18 to fuck. So I wouldn't teach my kids under the age of 18 to shoot either.
18 is young enough to learn how to kill and procreate.
Shooting, procreating... and driving. Should be taught by professionals, not amateurs... your children will just pick up your mistakes if you try to teach them yourself.
You're saying my children are mistakes? (Just kidding, but you did set yourself up for that one!)
Perhaps you mean my children may pick up my sexual "idiosyncracies"(?)
Well Frmsldr, mistakes might be the most appropriate word... especially if you were doing "it" wrong in the first place.
Teaching children under the age of 18 how to fuck is illegal.
Well it was 14 but now with Harper its 16, not 18
How heterosexist of you.
Excellant point. My bad, especialy given my preferences very much my bad
If you started out right wing, redneck and pro Conservative, then your childhood was nothing like mine.
It is possible to have hunting and the military as part of your milieu and not be a redneck or a Conservative.
I imagine one doesn't become interested in politics or develop a "political identity" until the teenage years at the earliest.
I imagine that your playing wild west, cops and robbers and playing with toy guns was done when you were a child and protesting Canadian involvement in war, dressing game and when you watched Saving Private Ryan was done when you reached adulthood.
In my case, it was playing with guns, playing "war", "cops and robbers", "cowboys and Indians", watching Hollywood movies that glorified war and shooting real guns at an early age that attracted me to the military and informed and influenced my "political identity".
As I grew older, gained more life experiences and learned more (some college education) but mostly through reading books of interest, seeking interesting internet sites (as opposed to porn
, yes I do that too for entertainment) and talking to as many different people as I can - in real life, babble is the only internet site where I talk to people online - I find more can be learned from real situations than "virtual" (on the net ones).
In other words, as I grow into an adult (a lifelong process) I become more of a "contradiction", as you might put it. This was not the case when I was a child.
Were you a "contradiction" or perhaps better still, an enigma in this sense, when you were a child or did you change and evolve as you grow older, as is happening with me?
Are you sure about cadets? The ones I know still get taught shooting.
My father-Pacifist, drafted in 1941 for WWII(and chucked out a month later for his toes), his family, rural, hunters and fishers. His was urban to the core. My mom, enlisted in RAF in WWII (brother-commando, sister-Royal Navy, borther-DesertRat, Dunkirk survivor and DDAY Dodger(served in Italy), brother-nazi) and was educated, urban from Newcastle upon Tyne. I was brought up hunting and fishing, anti-war, anti-colonialist(though with a few outdated views on race), urban, educated and both their war history was never mentioned much and never glorified (though my mother helped at the vets hospital every year and marched in all the parades and both were active legion members) war. Total waste to them. Brought up to read, love history but I became a cadet and forces man, loved military history and love guns but don't own one and kinda dont believe in states much anymore.
My father died when I was 9 (turned 10 a week later) so my sister and I were raised by my mother who was a very forceful independant woman. Never saw my brother much but then he was 22 years older than me and had moved out on his own, married by the time I came along.
If I lived in the US (a possibility given my inlaws) I would most certainly own a gun. I won't be without when everyone else has one (and in PA where Mrs Bacchus is from, everyone has one and hunts) but I won't ever get one here.
I like a .308 for deer and moose here in northern Ontariariario. And that's my gun comment.
Well Frmsldr, mistakes might be the most appropriate word... especially if you were doing "it" wrong in the first place.
I think that would be called an "unintentional pregnancy", but I would have to consult with an expert.
Are you sure about cadets? The ones I know still get taught shooting.
My father-Pacifist, drafted in 1941 for WWII(and chucked out a month later for his toes), his family, rural, hunters and fishers. His was urban to the core. My mom, enlisted in RAF in WWII (brother-commando, sister-Royal Navy, borther-DesertRat, Dunkirk survivor and DDAY Dodger(served in Italy), brother-nazi) and was educated, urban from Newcastle upon Tyne. I was brought up hunting and fishing, anti-war, anti-colonialist(though with a few outdated views on race), urban, educated and both their war history was never mentioned much and never glorified (though my mother helped at the vets hospital every year and marched in all the parades and both were active legion members) war. Total waste to them. Brought up to read, love history but I became a cadet and forces man, loved military history and love guns but don't own one and kinda dont believe in states much anymore.
My father died when I was 9 (turned 10 a week later) so my sister and I were raised by my mother who was a very forceful independant woman. Never saw my brother much but then he was 22 years older than me and had moved out on his own, married by the time I came along.
If I lived in the US (a possibility given my inlaws) I would most certainly own a gun. I won't be without when everyone else has one (and in PA where Mrs Bacchus is from, everyone has one and hunts) but I won't ever get one here.
I last heard about Cadets ante bellum Afghanistan, so sometime since 2001 they may have reverted to the old way.
Well, would you say you are the product of nature or nurture, both or not sure?
I would say for me, originally I was a product of my environment. Later my natural curiosity and strong desire to learn led me to new environments which in turn, caused this process of personal change, growth and evolution. So, it was an interplay of both nature and nurture (environment) as I grow in age and (hopefully) wisdom.
I'm not sure, to be honest. I think my experiences in life and my curiousity have molded me far more in the last ten years than my previos upbringing but Im told my nature is very much like my dads (tho i'm funnier).
I think thats probably just a myth that rural kids who kill or see animals killed have a more real understanding of death. Hunting was always around me- it was never not there. And my grandfather was a gunsmith. I kept and slaughtered my own rabbits before I was 10. But we still played huge fantasy games of cops and robbers, and eagerly lapped up Westerns. And when it came to real human beings- I can remember being VERY puzzled about the death of relatives... I'm sure as much as any urban kid. Kids have and live multiple realities. And while there is some crossover, a lot of the crossover that adults see is imputed.
We always had pet dogs and cats, hamsters, budgies etc around the house. We were taught to respect pets and grew attached to them and grieved when they passed on. Not all cultures see animals in the same way though. Some consider it unclean to keep animals in the house. Others might look at fluffy the cat and imagine skinning him alive and skewering for bbq. Farmers and truckers tend not to treat animals with too much tlc.
As for me I think giving a deer or moose a chance to see or sniff me down wind and high tail it before the shot is sporting. Otoh, those concentration camps for beef cows and pig cities are quite inhumane and unnatural, and i don't like it much. I believe that the new liberal capitalism that has promoted industrial food production in general is unnatural. We need a better way.
Otoh, those concentration camps for beef cows and pig cities are quite inhumane and unnatural, and i don't like it much. I believe that the new liberal capitalism that has promoted industrial food production in general is unnatural. We need a better way.
I absolutely agree.
Frmrsldr not sure why you think Canada doesn't train Cadets to shoot.
I can tell you 100% Army Navy and Air cadets [age 12 to 18] do in fact teach shooting. There was just a large Cadet shooting competition my way a couple of weeks ago.
Personally I wouldn't "teach my kids how to fuck". I will teach them about sex. How to be safe, how to avoid bad situations. What to do if something bad happens.
On the same note I'm not going to put a human looking paper target infront of my kids and teach the how to shoot twice to the chest and once to the head with a gun. However with firearms in the house I will teach them about the dangers of firearms, fire arm safety in case they ever come across a gun and if they are interested in learning to shoot as a hobby I'll teach them how to shoot well.
I don't lump 12 year olds havng sex and shooting air rifles or whatever in the same boat.
Webgear's new deer rifle
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-AIA/M10-N4.shtm
7.62 is marginal for big game.
Can you actually use that rifle around SW Ontario, Webgear? Or do you have to go up north to use it for deer?
Tommy
It has been about 15 years since I hunted deer in Grey/Bruce however I believe this rifle is legal in southern Ontario.
It is acceptable in my current location.
Farmpunk
What are you using for deer?
I hunt in shotgun and black powder only regions. Some regions are black powder only, others, like my WMA allow for both.
I mix it up. I have a twenty gauge that work really well (slugs are mandatory, no 20 gauge buckshot allowed for deer). But I also use a 12 gauge for deer; triple 000 buckshot and slugs. A lot of hunters are moving towards rifled slug barreled shotguns with red dot scopes.
Oh, TP, you bring up a point that is contentious in hunting circles. I don't think that gun is particularly mil-spec looking. There are legal rifles that are much more military in appearance. Couple years ago a well known hunting writer, Jim Zumbo, got into bucketloads of trouble from the firearm community for writing an article that bemoaned the move towards rifles that are replica-like; AR15 knockoffs and stubby assault looking things that are legal for hunting purposes in various places. I believe that some firearms are placed into the restricted category in Canada solely because they look badass.
Remington has a bunch of AR-15 look a likes now on the market; I really do not care for the new firearms in camouflage colour patterns like most of these are.
The wood on this new rifle is amazing, the colour and texture is breath taking.
I used a shotgun for deer when I first started hunting, I had a Remington 870 combo, which allowed me to do duck hunting along with deer.
There is at least one strong case for banning assault rifle look alikes: for the same reason you are still charged with armed robbery even if you just use a realistic looking toy. Banning actual rifles that are AR look alikes may be more pre-emptive than that- but I think its enough within the parameters of what has long been broadly accepted as logic here for banning specific weapons. Not just because "it looks bad ass".
Actually, I never thought of that angle, Farmpunk. I know someone who owns a sportsman model Lee Enfield .303, essentially the same weapon used in the trenches of WWI, I guess without the bayonet mount. I thought you were allowed to use this to hunt deer down here, which always made me wonder what the sport was in deer hunting.
I mean, there's people who could bag deer from inside their house with such a rifle.
But the owner laughed and told me that you aren't allowed to hunt with a .303 in these parts, you had to go up north. He uses it for moose hunting.
As far as rifles and such looking like gnarly military weapons, who cares?
So long as it doesn't resemble a pool noodle, it shouldn't scare Toronto Police.
Tommy
If I am correct the sporterized 303s still have the bayonet mount on the weapons.
I have a blackpowered musket, that I am going to try this year.
The .303 was still the weapon that Canucks had to use in the next war after WW 1 . A veteran of the battle for Caen who visited his wife regularly in long-term care was pictured on the steps of the city's administration building with two of his buddies, looking very tired after that day in July 1944. Art and his friends all had their .303s within reach in that picture I cut out for him from the local newspaper.
Got to use one myself at the DCRA match on the Connaught range outside Ottawa in the summer of 1953. They did nasty things to your shoulder, prone, unless you snugged them in to the shoulder.
Deer numbers do have to be controlled, unfortunately, but bow hunting should be banned.
Why bow hunting?
I've only ever handled (not shot) the full military Enfield 303. The ones with the wood that goes all the way to the end of the barrel. They could be used for clubs, too, and likely were at times. Wonderful action on those guns. Brits going into WW1 were said to be able to shoot 60 aimed shots a minute, with clip reloads.
TP, a 303 is now considered an outdated round. And I've never understood the attraction of hunting with a modern high powered rifles with similarly outlandish scopes that can put round after round into a tea cup up to 300 yards.
KenS, obviously there are reasons other than the appearance of a firearm to ban or restrict the ownership. But keeping them away from people who simply want to own them for their appearance strikes me as good policy. Generally, for hunting purposes, such weapons are not "the best".
Yeah, GV, what's with the lack of love for bow hunting?
Too many deer running aout the countryside with arrows sticking out of their haunches. "Fortunately" many of them are later despatched - their suffering ended - when season opens for guns.
I gave up sport hunting when I couldn't always find the wounded, and that was ducks and upland game.
Ah, okay. Understood.
The ethical dilemma to take a shot or not is at the root of hunting as a cultural tradition.
I can not use a scope, I stick with iron sights.
I prefer bolt action over autoloaders myself.
In practice, bow hunting much more frequently ends in wounded deer that get away but die.
Everybody and their uncle hunts in the better part even of urban southern Michigan. And with that many hunters after a deer population with limits, a good many people extend their hunting to bow primarily to bag more deer than they can legally with guns only.
In Ann Arbor even, sceduling construction projects getting dicier when September rolls around. Fortunately, a couple of the sub-contractors I used were non-standard- no serious hunters. But I never found such a plumbing sub [this was as of the early 90s].
Teg Nugent the local hero: "Rack em and Stack em".
Jeez how did I miss this thread the first time around?
So far I'm very disappointed in this thread. Lots of gun talk, not a lot of ammo talk. Come on, people!
Chris Rock on Gun Control.
The wood on this new rifle is amazing, the colour and texture is breath taking.
Were Shakespeare still among us, he would no doubt have dedicated a sonnet to its virtues.
If you care, I can write a sonnet for you.
Maysie
You are right, we should talk about ammo.
Does anyone here load their own rounds? I have been thinking about, I understand it is pretty cheap to get a decent starter kit.
I have been thinking about making my own musket balls.
I was a hand loader until I came to Canada. Thats been nearly 40 years, so whats my memory worth. But I was living in the Rockies out of my camper and continued loading for a few different calibers. So it must be cheap and easy enough.
And speaking of coming to Canada, when I crossed the border I wasnt thinking that I'd be staying here. Just thinking of the winter.
So I come to the border with my footlocker full of the hand-loading gear and ammo. And showing mt shotguns and 30ought in the open on racks. I knew enough to know that my handguns you had to have a permit in Canada to posses. Let alone there were two wartime semi-auto [easily made full] Lahtis [Finnish copy of Lugers] that were crazy illegal.
So dumb young cracker I was, I hid them. The customs guy saw all the handloading gear, and did they go looking for illegal guns? No they heard hippies hide their hash in 8 track tapes. So they were prying open the tapes for a peek- without breaking them. I couldnt figure out what they were doing.
I'd never travel with dope. but guns wont get you in trouble.
Anyway, got through. Settled in BC. A year later an ex-RCMP I knew offered to buy t
Didnt mean to post that unfinished. Had to run and saved it elsewhere. Continuing....
So the ex-RCMP asks to buy the illegal Lahtis he knows he cant get a permit for. "Nope. I'm throwing them into the saltchuck."
Which I did. I was a vegetarian by then, but there were more compelling reasons for wanting the hanguns out of circulation.
Gave the other guns and handloading gear to a friend with a large family. The handloading gear was a great idea because they had little money ever. But a bit of a problem since my friend was a smoker, serious alcoholic, and generally heedless to danger.
So I taught the oldest to handload for his father, and made both of them promise not to let my friend EVER use the gear. I asked the kid later if his father watched him. "All the time. But he doesnt touch anything." Not likely my friend would go against my wishes anyway. But I think he liked the mystery, and being dependent on his son.
Ammo it is, Maysie.
If I was to get into hunting, I think the black powder rifle would be my choice, Webgear. Maybe a Baker rifle replica.
With all the people into hunting in Michigan, I'm astounded at the number of road kill on I-69 in November. Drove through there when I was reading Cormac McCarthy. Geez, talk about a mood.
I have a replica Brown Bess, hand crafted in Ontario.
Handloading is good if you are very careful with weights. Putting magnum load charges in low-brass-base shotgun shells (the cheap ones picked up around skeet ranges) should perhaps be restricted to use in non-automatics. I've no idea what the cost-advantages would be today. Would like to be able to afford skeet shooting again, just to smell the burnt powder that turned me on a kid.
I want to handload just to gain a new skillset, to be understand my firearms.
Hey wasn't that fun?
Closing.