I love babble

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George Victor

Lovely thought, Alien.

remind remind's picture

Love Bones too, but have found, throughout the course of my life, that "rational" people, especially those that believe they are, are no more rational than anyone else, per se, when push comes to shove.

What one person may perceive to be a threat, another person may not. Just because  a person may not believe there to be a threat, does not mean it is not so.

Cyberspace is now where the battle for "the hearts and minds"  is occuring, minimalizing or denying this is irrational, AFAIC. ;)

alien

remind wrote:

"rational" people, especially those that believe they are, are no more rational than anyone else, per se, when push comes to shove.

When "push comes to shove", rationality is long gone! Smile

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

skdadl wrote:
... the other day when I read a story about Julian Assange in his younger days. He went through a period where he was trying to limit himself to one meal every two days because he wondered whether the human body could be more "efficient" than it is. He had a similar attitude to sleep. Can you imagine offering someone who hasn't eaten for a day some food and having him reply, "That would not be efficient"?

We live in a society in which we are constantly messaged to eat, eat, eat, and eat some more. We eat too much. It's so bad that childhood obeisity is getting to be a very serious problem. It's not just efficiency but basic health. Furthermore, a good argument can be made that eating less simply works our bodies less and therefore wears it out ... less. Or something like that.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

I love eating as much as babbling. I just ate a plum. It was juicy and delicious and grown in Ontario. You can't make me feel guilty about it.

skdadl

I love food too, Lard Tunderin. I don't eat very much, but I love good food. I guess to the efficiency experts, that makes us decadent, although there are some biological facts to take into account, like blood sugar levels. I often do try to run for too long on no food (bad organization, distracted, etc), which tends to mean that, when I eat, I immediately become overpoweredly sleepy. That is a biological phenom one should try to avoid, since it's not a great idea to sleep immediately after eating. The way to avoid it is to graze a bit during the day.

Unionist

One reason I love babble is that even though it closes long threads, it makes exceptions for those which are filled with love!

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Here's a secret I would never tell if I didn't have love in my heart: I love babble, and I hate closing long threads.

Here's another secret: maybe that will change soon.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Um, dude you didn't close this.

Love schmove.

Closing Tongue out

Continue the love-fest here.

Unionist

Unionist wrote:

One reason I love babble is that even though it closes long threads, it makes exceptions for those which are filled with love!

Thanks for reopening, oldgoat!

This holiday season cries out for even more love than usual.

Love is all you need.

 

lagatta

If only that were true!

Your lovin' might give me thrills

But your lovin' don't pay my bills...

Slumberjack

These days I'm loving rabble.ca itself less since the Gruppenführers at Majka's blog and Murphy's Der Angriff Current have been holding forth.

6079_Smith_W

Funny that for all the gratuitous and tiresome Nazi slurs, they aren't the ones making pronouncements about who should and should not be allowed a voice here.

lagatta

Current is also "Strom" in German, and Gegen den Strom was originally the name of an anti-Nazi movement.  I'm very tired of using the German language to insinuate Nazism - remember that most of the books set ablaze in the infamous book burnings were in German as well, and that the Nazis' first victims were German as well; some politicals, some Jewish, some both, some targeted for other things. 

I don't agree with everything Ms Murphy writes, but I thought her piece on Erasure was very good. Doris Lessing tackled this theme in 1973, in "The Summer Before the Dark".

Slumberjack

You think the gross over-generalizations being propagated line after line are very good?

6079_Smith_W

You mean like comparing those you disagree with to Nazis?

Slumberjack

No, because being specific in describing the content produced by two bloggers is different than over-generalizing...what are we up to now...3.5 to 4 billion human beings.

oldgoat

Um,... losing sight of why I love babble here.

Slumberjack

It's the BDSM, the Paedophilia, and the horrible blogs isn't it?

lagatta

Slumberjack, do you not agree with the existence of patriarchy (patriarchal capitalism in its current incarnation) and the longstanding oppression of women?  That really bothers me; not whether you agree with Meghan Murphy or anyone else about this or that. It is sort of like denying racism because there are also poor and marginalised white people.

I was heartened to hear Ms Murphy's thoughts on "erasure" because she hasn't yet reached the age where it starts to have an extreme negative impact on women's lives. The happy girly feminism-lite she is criticising denies this "erasure", or "becoming invisible".

Unionist

*

Unionist

Slumberjack wrote:

These days I'm loving rabble.ca itself less since the Gruppenführers at Majka's blog and Murphy's Der Angriff Current have been holding forth.

Nice move, SJ. Maybe consider opening another thread to express your opinions about rabble.ca?

This thread is about love of babble. And on that point, I'm pleased to note that you are one with the rest of us!

Slumberjack

lagatta wrote:
Slumberjack, do you not agree with the existence of patriarchy (patriarchal capitalism in its current incarnation) and the longstanding oppression of women? 

Well, it wouldn't make any sense to maintain an Anarchist related thread and espouse opinions against patriarchy and capitalist exploitation for many years here, going back to pretty near the beginning, while not believing that patriarchy exists and not believing that great harm has been inflicted upon all of us.  I see Murphy's diatribes as blowback aimed at anyone who isn't ideologically acceptable, or, as a general round up of all the undesirables, of which she maintains a vast list if the tone of her last blog post is any indication.

Although, I'm not in favour of erasure in this instance either.  In fact, Murphy's opinions should be housed in a museum for sociologists to enable future historians of thought to study the exhibits in order to better ascertain where activism went wrong.  Maybe she is contributing something worthwhile after all.

6079_Smith_W

Since we already have a more recent thread dedicated to the love of babble, perhaps we could dedicate this one to irony, not only regarding those intolerant of others who don't comply with their ideology, but also with the idea of consigning old, stodgy, wrong-headed ideas to a museum.

We are starting to develop a running theme here, after all.

Unionist

Maybe discussion of Megan Murphy could be taken to one of the appropriate threads and forums where megatonnes of such discussion are already ongoing? Like the feminism forum or the sex workers forum?

Maybe a casual comment about German and Nazis could be chuckled at, or ignored, without diving off the tangential deep end?

This thread is called "I love babble". Oldgoat was kind enough to reopen it. I will post here every day until the attention deficit and drift stop.

That's not a promise. It's a threat.

Thank you.

I love you all. More than you know. More than I know. Because we are all babblers. And for all our faults, we love babble.

 

Slumberjack

Any subset of humanity is within their rights to defend against being described and implicated using broad strokes.  Historical precedents abound.

6079_Smith_W

I think the point is being driven home - with broad strokes of a sledgehammer - what some people love about babble. That is, something against which to play the iconoclast.

Since you raise the point in an honest way Unionist (and thank you) I have to say I am kind of ambivalent about it at the moment as I see it as rather static. But I will say I support its purpose and its potential.

And I hope you don't think me too cheeky if I say I also recognize that about the National Post.

Caissa

It has been a busy term, full-time job, part-time professor and part-time, and I have not had much time to visit  Babble. When I do visit the site, it is great to see that it is healthy and vibrant. Now, back to marking final exams.

Unionist

Thanks Caissa, and Smith, and everyone else, for relieving me of the need to post in this thread every day as threatened! I didn't mean it anyway...

Cuz only love can break a thread, and only love can mend it again.

 

Slumberjack

George Victor wrote:
As long as people can summon up the courage to draw the distinction between the voicing of moderate opinion and full, foul-mouthed ambush by the correct-speak clerics out to put down apostasy, there can be warmth of feeling between people on the same side of the human scale.  There can be little to "love" about an environment where people are afraid to stand up to their attack, or even afraid to comment during the attack. 

Prior to his banning George and I certainly exchanged differences of opinion, but every now and then he'd hit the nail squarely on the head so to speak.

6079_Smith_W

Again, it is a bit hard to take seriously, considering that  the mods seem to leave a pretty free hand these days. When they do finally need to step in it usually concerns people who are themselves trying to undermine others and their opinions (as in calling them trolls).  And far from being "afraid to stand up" many of these offenders don't seem to be able to understand when told that is not an acceptable way to treat other people.

I like that we have moderators actually.

Though I think it is kind of irrelevant to your claims, because even when they do not act and let comments pass, apparently we're still living under the boot of some oppressive censor. I'd offer the advice that there is a big free internet out there for those who want to throw off their shackles, but near as I can see, even when they don't exist, there seems to be a need to imagine them. Perhaps the mods are more important to you than they are to me.

Glossed over your comment above, Unionist.

You know, if it was just casual Nazi references (though I think any use of it as caricature cheapens recognition the real thing) it might be laughable to some. It's not as if people don't know how to take a joke. It is different though when it is in that grey area where people actually assume it is true, and that is where we are with some of these references.

If some people get off on that name-calling and "campism" as it has been called, not much I can do, as this is not my site. But it sure gets in the way of any real sort of discussion, and is and one reason to waste less time some of the things that are here.

 

 

Slumberjack

I know one thing.  You're entirely unabashed when it comes to lackeyism.

6079_Smith_W

From my perspective it is not wanting to put up with seeing people verbally abused, and attempts to shut out others' opinions and derail discussion.

I have heard enough faux freedom arguments which are in reality pushing the exact opposite; not about to fall for it here.

If it gets to the point where moderators are compelled to step in - and there have been enough cases where people have been given a hell of a lot of rope before they do that - who is the one imposing will on others?

You know, I'm glad this thread was reopened, and it is a drag to have to focus on negative stuff. But I have been frankly turned off by the level of some of the discourse lately, which makes it all the more important to speak up when there is an opportunity to change that.

 

MegB

Keeping the discourse resectful is actually a relatively small part of what I do as a mod. There are new users to approve (and spammers to weed out - remember the massive spam attacks we used to get?), login issues, special events, occasional tabling for rabble, meetings, policy discussions and, from time to time, writing for the publication.

I've seen a lot of changes over the course of my 14 years with rabble - mostly under the user name of Rebecca West - and imagine that I will see more change still. What I've come to learn is that when it comes to moderating babbler behavior, a laissez faire style is more effective than a hard line.

So thank you to all of you who make babble a great place. To those who try to make it a highly disagreeable place, fuck you very much. I'd also like to thank my brilliant, warm and compassionate colleagues, our rabble staff, who make working for the organization both a privilege and a pleasure.

That is all.

lagatta

While I'm a card-carrying Christmashater, I do wish "you and yours" (whatever the bejeezus that means) a lovely Solstice holiday season. I just rode my bicycle home - in the warmish rain! A jerk almost doored me, though I was in a bicycle lane, and yes, I do have my lights on (one must put one's lights on at about 3 p.m. in this grey, short-daytimed season). But no snow...

Hoping you have lots (but not TOO much) of whatever you prefer to eat and drink, and whatever raucous or quiet fun your prefer!

Slumberjack

MegB wrote:
To those who try to make it a highly disagreeable place, fuck you very much.

You know this sounds way worse than the tone of that PM you criticized me for.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I ♥ babble.

Not pledging my allegiance here.  Just showing off that I know how to make a ♥ symbol.

But I do ♥♥♥ babble.

mark_alfred

Hmm.  Seems patriotism is prevalent here as well.  A good thing, I suppose.  Some theorize that homo sapiens' capacity for patriotism is what allowed homo sapiens to over run and defeat others, such as the likely smarter and stronger neanderthals, and emerge on top of the animal kingdom, even above stronger hunters like lions.  Some feel the capacity for patriotism and devotion to entities, even a created immaterial entity such as a god, nation, party, ideology, etc., allows for homo sapiens to unite in far greater numbers than would otherwise be possible.  So, go team Babble go!

Slumberjack

I think we need a Mother Babble statue.  Tin foil helmet, raised sword in one hand, donation cup in the other.

MegB

Slumberjack wrote:

I think we need a Mother Babble statue.  Tin foil helmet, raised sword in one hand, donation cup in the other.

Laughing

6079_Smith_W

Now you boys are just being silly.

Evidently our former PM isn't the only one building grandiose monuments to imaginary scapegoating crap.

I know it is way more sexy to pretend to be fighting the forces of oppression than to consider that some might have values different than yours, but honest question: If babble is such an oppressive place controlled by "correct-speak clerics", why DO you stay?

And I'm not asking the question because I want you to leave; I don't want that. But the fact is there IS a big internet out there, with plenty of places where people can have flame wars to their hearts' content.

I think you like it here, even though admitting that would kind of blow the act.

 

6079_Smith_W

Did I say that? I thought I just said - quite explicitly - I didn't want you to go. I actually think yours is an important perspective here. It's not recognizing others' perspectives as valid that I have a problem with.

Maybe I should ask the question more clearly and directly: why do you stay if you think this is such a terrible place that only wants your money? Honestly. I am curious.

 

Slumberjack

It isn't a requirement to recognize other people's perspectives as being valid.  Political debate only requires that the perspective of the other is considered, not that it be considered, after which it becomes automatically declared valid.  The last sentence incorrectly attributes those thoughts to me.  Or at least, they're not as extreme as all that.

6079_Smith_W

You didn't answer my question.

And by "valid" I mean honestly-held; not the result of  being a lackey, troll  or dupe. I see plenty of stuff here I don't agree with.

Slumberjack

Insofar as your question contained incorrect attributions, I answered it in the best way I knew how.  In terms of political dialogue, I only advise withdrawal from party politics.  For everywhere else there's little choice but to continue political engagement, in whichever manner best suits the person engaging, which is ideally accomplished in combination with other activities.

Honestly held beliefs are not by definition valid.  If that were the case, the neo-nazis we see rearing their ugly heads around Europe these days would have a point.

Slumberjack

Were your logic to be transposed elsewhere, anyone taking issue with the way the Canadian government decides things, or say, the way private enterprises often discriminate against workers, should get lost.  After all, there's a big world out there where someone with a gripe about this or that can shove off to and establish their very own utopia.  It's a point of view quite similar to that old Merle Haggard song where he states, 'if you don't love it, leave it.'  If it is the case that people should get going when the going gets tough, humanity should primarily consist of hermits observing a vow of silence by now.

6079_Smith_W

It was a pretty simple question: why are you here?

And again, I don't want you to go, but if, as you say, isn't bad enough to be terrible, but you agree with the dear departed that there is "little to love" (and feel the need to post it here), I am curious what makes it worth it for you to hang around.

If you don't want to answer, just say so. But please don't try to dodge it on a technical point that had nothing to do with the question.

Slumberjack

It isn't necessary to provide an answer to your absurd questions.  Just as it isn't necessary to love or hate, like or lump anything to remain active and engaged in dialogue.

6079_Smith_W

That's unfortunate.

I mean, I get the bit about having little choice. I get that kind showing up at my door all the time, and at lent they are always in front of City Hospital with their anti-choice signs. Kind of a martyr act, but I get it.

But given how much you seem to be on about "teh Nazis" I'd have expected to see you fighting your noble and sisyphean fight at Stormfront, or at the very least a conservative or pro-Israel site. 

But you are here, and despite your complaints you seem to want to stay.

I get that it might be too uncool for you to say anything nice.  Me, I'm not so proud, so here's your Christmas present: I love that rabble is the kind of place that doesn't just boot your ass out of here for being a thorn in people' s side.

Some people get crucified for that kind of thing.

oldgoat

Well that would be a dandy point to close out the thread on, (upon?) but I guess I won't.  I start moderating tomorrow, so we'll see how much we love the place two weeks from now.

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