Reporting tech issues to rabble - III
ARGH ARGH ARGH, I just lost my ENTIRE FREAKING POST when oldgoat closed the thread while I was composing! :) Not his fault of course. But it's probably good that he wasn't within reach when my big long post updating babblers about what's happening with the tech process was suddenly GONE.
ANYHOW.
Here's what's happening so far:
We had a rabble staff meeting on Thursday night, and I talked about how we have a number of tech issues that we need to have addressed. We asked for a meeting with Brian, who is the tech guy that oldgoat and I have been mostly dealing with.
oldgoat and I are going to go through these threads and make a list of all the tech stuff that has come up in them that hasn't been resolved yet. Then we're going to go over those concerns with Brian, highlighting the ones that oldgoat and I consider most pressing. We'll try and get some sort of timeframe, but if that can't be done, then at least we'll know that they're being addressed.
How we will communicate with babblers:
Once we make up that list for Brian, we'll also post it on babble so that all of you can see it and know that your concerns have been included and communicated to the tech people. We will take notes at our meeting and then afterwards we'll post a summary of what we talked about and let you know what we do about whether and when various issues will be addressed.
Challenges:
The reason you haven't heard a lot about the issues you're raising so far is because babble is relatively functional right now, but there are other areas of the site that have more pressing concerns. For instance, podcasters have had issues that were preventing some of them from posting their podcasts. The blogging area had some fires that needed to be put out. And there are editorial features that weren't working right and were affecting the front page. Etc.
These are all things that are hard to see before the site becomes fully functional with all its users. We tested for a while, but there's no test like having all the users of the site actually using the site. (Especially since rabble staff didn't really have time to not only do our jobs on the old site, but also test the new site, which basically would require us to double our work.)
Speaking of time...we have to pay for tech hours, although of course they are donating a good deal of time, just as all of us at rabble are. It also takes a lot of time for oldgoat and I to write back and forth about tech issues to Brian, and try to address concerns in the babble thread, and simply do the usual moderating of the boards.
However, I personally will make the tech stuff - and particularly communicating with babblers ABOUT the tech stuff - my priority for the next week or two. I agree that communication hasn't been as good as it maybe should have been with all of you, and I'm hoping to greatly improve this over the next while.
Moderating issues:
This means that if you have moderating issues, you should probably contact both oldgoat and I about them, because both of us are going to be stretched with behind-the-scenes stuff, and your concerns will be addressed more quickly if you let both of us know. It's as easy as simply addressing your e-mails to both of us instead of just one of us. Some of you already do this, but a number of you choose one or the other of us. Our e-mail addresses are MICHELLE at RABBLE dot CA, and OLDGOAT at RABBLE dot CA.
Thanks! Looking forward to getting all this stuff sorted out!
Thanks, Michelle and oldgoat, I wouldn't trade places with you folks for anything right now - and we're all confident that the issues will be sorted out.
Meanwhile, I'm re-posting some "old babble" links for nostalgia buffs:
Today's Active Topics of October 10, 2007
rabble.ca, April 19, 2001
As someone from Saskatchewan once said:
Don't it always seem to go,
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone.
Ah yes! We'll be sure to include the old babble threads in our questions. (As in, when do we get access to them again.)
How we will communicate with babblers:
Once we make up that list for Brian, we'll also post it on babble so that all of you can see it and know that your concerns have been included and communicated to the tech people. We will take notes at our meeting and then afterwards we'll post a summary of what we talked about and let you know what we do about whether and when various issues will be addressed.
Thanks, dudes. I think this is the most important thing--communication with babblers to let us know that our concerns are being addressed.
I hate the new babble so much I want to tear my teddy bear apart in frustration. It is so user friendless and so cold. It sickens and depresses me. Unless there are drastic changes in design, I promise this is the absolute death of rabble. There is no way human beings can use this cold, heartless interface. I have never come across a bbs design which is more difficult, unfriendly and confusing. I hate the new babble unconditionally.
Now you know how it feels! Sucks, eh?
I sometimes lost entire posts in the middle of composing them with the old rabble. I dont know web server stuff very well, but it seems to me that high volume traffick necessitates more server scripts assigning to server interfaces/ports and-or additional servers to balance demand/load. Of course at some point, this would require more resources. Perhaps rabble admin and volunteers are doing the best they can and working within certain financial constraints. New forum looks good. I imagine it takes time to iron out bugs and have certain features working smoothly. Thanks rabble.
I was on another forum today (where I am a moderator) and discovered that it has an easy way to embed YouTube videos:
Say you want to embed a video having this URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI0_VzFxTzs
All you have to do is take the portion to the right of the equals sign and put it between two UBB tags, like this:
[tub]TI0_VzFxTzs[/tub]
The forum software is vBulletin 3.6.8
It doesn't work on babble, of course. Pity.
--------------
The above post didn't "take" the first time I tried. After staring at the screen for three minutes, I got the following error message:
Unable to connect to database server
If you still have to install Drupal, proceed to the installation page.
If you have already finished installing Drupal, this either means that the username and password information in your settings.php file is incorrect or that we can't connect to the MySQL database server. This could mean your hosting provider's database server is down.
The MySQL error was: Too many connections.
Currently, the username is live_rabble and the database server is localhost.
Are you sure you have the correct username and password?
Are you sure that you have typed the correct hostname?
Are you sure that the database server is running?
For more help, see the Installation and upgrading handbook. If you are unsure what these terms mean you should probably contact your hosting provider.
-----
Drupal:
Yup. I got the same one.
When choosing the new platform, was limiting the number of readers here an objective of rabble.ca?
edited to add
And since I'm on a roll, how many frickin' posts do I have to make to move beyond 'recent-rabble-rouser'?
I've had this error message several times since the changeover to the new software, just trying to log on:
Unable to connect to database serverIf you still have to install Drupal, proceed to the installation page.
I left another forum almost a year ago to return to babble because they switched to the latest phpBB software - I must say that software looks far superior to this mess.
You guys don't know what you're talking about.
ETA: This is thread drift for this topic. But drupal is great software and is consistently winning best CMS awards. I see the problems with the new site as well as anyone else, but this kind of migration is often a difficult process. I don't think any other CMS or publishing system would've gone more smoothly.
I want a help page. Below this box it says "More information about formatting options" but the link leads to an empty page.
How do I post a video link?
Etc.
They need to add object and embed tags to the allowed HTML tags in the default input format, that's probably the easiest way. I don't think there's any way to post embedded video to the site as it stands now.
If current performance is this bad, I shudder to think what a few embedded video clips might do...
I realize it is easy to complain about the NEW babble. It really is pretty bad.
I was expecting a big change, colours format and whatever.
Colours are the same, format is worse and it is ugly.
If I had my druthers I would go back to the old one and call it a day.
yep.
Perhaps my biggest complaint is the absence of the short quotes from post on the Active Topics page. I'm flying blind when I click on a thread.
I agree, Wilf, although I have noticed that threads now tend to stay "on topic" longer than before, because there's less opportunity/temptation to sidetrack them with drive-by responses to comments made in obiter when the latter aren't displayed on the Active Topics page.
Most babblers haven't yet realized this, but it is now more important than ever that the title of the thread be an accurate representation of the topic.
Has A FAQ page been created? I can't bear scrolling through pages of snipes to try and suss out if a specific problem has been discussed. In my case, not being able to fix an Original post: I get the "Subscribe" button in lieu of the "Edit" one.
You can't edit OPs in the new babble.
...which is particularly galling in view of the new-found importance of thread titles.
I switched to cable from Bell, and I was that close to whiplash with how fast this page loaded just now.
website
If I could offer a list of what should be prioritized based on my own experiences and reading those of babblers, it would be:
1. Colour hyperlinks red!
2. Implement text-wrapping for pasting in the comment box. As it is right now, formatting is terrible and it's very time-consuming to fix or to do right, even if you know how (most babblers don't, or don't bother).
3. Allow editing for Opening posts.
Then, we could get into extras like embedding video links easier, enabling the firefox spellchecker for comments (why doesn't it work?) and formatting tweaks. But the three I mentioned are vital and should be implemented ASAP.
I have a question for dial-up peeps.
I've been closing threads for length willy-nilly, now that I have my powers back, I'm going along, acting as if the experience of long threads is the same in New babble as it was in Old babble.
But is it? Dial-uppers, please let us know. Maybe we can let threads go to 125 or 150 if it's different now? Just wondering.
If there's one thing I know about you, bcg, it's that you go about willy-nilly no matter what. And I don't expect that to change in a thousand new babbles.
Maybe we can let threads go to 125 or 150 if it's different now? Just wondering.
That brings a different idea to mind. Two options:
1. Close all threads after 20 posts.
OR
2. Close a thread as soon as one person has posted twice.
Is it just my perception or has posting been down since the re-launch?
In the new babble, posting downs YOU!
I enjoyed being on old babble, I don't enjoy being on this new software at all, so I mostly ignore it now. I check in three or four times a day versus about twenty times a day on old babble. I think this "upgrade" is a huge mistake. Even phpBB forums look better than this dog's breakfast.
About 90% of the google-cached pages from the old site have now been lost, so it would be nice to get some news about when access might be reinstated.
In further news, the google-cached pages from the new site look horrendous and are nigh-on illegible, retaining little-to-none of their formatting.
In further news, the google-cached pages from the new site look horrendous and are nigh-on illegible, retaining little-to-none of their formatting.
I've gotta believe it's WAY down.
Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
If I could offer a list of what should be prioritized based on my own experiences and reading those of babblers, it would be:
1. Colour hyperlinks red!
2. Implement text-wrapping for pasting in the comment box. As it is right now, formatting is terrible and it's very time-consuming to fix or to do right, even if you know how (most babblers don't, or don't bother).
3. Allow editing for Opening posts.
Then, we could get into extras like embedding video links easier, enabling the firefox spellchecker for comments (why doesn't it work?) and formatting tweaks. But the three I mentioned are vital and should be implemented ASAP.
I agree with numbers 2 and 3, but not necessarily number 1. Michelle has mentioned that it's not possible to turn the babble hyperlinks red, without turning all hyperlinks red on the rest of the site as well. Since all article titles on the main page are hyperlinks, we can't get red hyperlinks on babble, without also getting red article titles on the rabble main page. I'm not sure if I would like red article titles on the main page.
Other changes I'd like to see:
1. A larger font size like the old babble, So I can get that font size without causing sidescroll on my monitor.
1. Previews on the TAT.
2. User recent posts pages that rank the threads according to time of that user's last post in each thread, rather than by the time of last post in each thread by any user.
3. Previews on the user recent posts pages.
4. Getting the feedback button in a fixed location on the rabble and babble pages, rather than in a fixed location on the monitor (it covers up content on the front page).
5. Post totals for each user.
6. The ability to roll over the titles of threads that show up on the babble main page, and on the tat, to get the full title.
7. A member list.
8. Access to the old babble, to read the threads.
9. The ability to use the old babble smilies, especially the rolleyes smiley.
While I think this software may be good for rabble as a whole, I believe it is NOT good for babble. There is much better forum software out there, like smf, or phpbb forums. I know those arn't part of full content management systems (cms), and that rabble wants the babble to be part of a cms that includes the whole site. However, if no cms provides a forum component with comparable functionality to smf and phpbb, then I think rabble should seriously consider using different software for babble, than for the main site.
There is a red hyperlink on the front page RIGHT NOW. Not to mention the thread hyperlinks for each and every babble thread on the Active Topics page. To quote Brother Mouzone from the The Wire: 'You got some bad information'.
Okay, I finally have my list finished! My internet's been down all week at home, so I haven't had a chance to get this done until this morning.
Here's my list. I tried to put them sort of in order of importance, but there are so many that I wanted to put at the top of the list that I'm not really satisfied with the order. But I'll make it clear at our meeting with Brian tomorrow that these are all important fixes that directly affect usability. Here goes!
List of tech issues on babbleLinks need to be made visible. On the old babble and rabble, links were automatically made red. On the new babble, there is absolutely no visual indication that something is a link until you mouse over it. HIGH PRIORITY.
We need to get rid of the happy face that tells people whether you're online or not. It's creepy and really no one's business whether someone is online or not, or when they were last on. HIGH PRIORITY
We need to get rid of taglines. Or at least make it an option that the moderators can turn on and off. They are disruptive to the flow of conversation, and there’s no formatting that differentiates the taglines from the posts. HIGH PRIORITY
People's usernames are being truncated. Please allow them to wrap to the next line. Some of our favorite babblers are now known as "This is my Usern..." HIGH PRIORITY
There is no "quote" function in the reply window page. People are constantly quoting from articles and it makes posts very difficult to read when they can't put the quotes in a quote box. HIGH PRIORITY
We really need those first couple of lines of the most recent post on Today's Active Topics. Not only does it make babble easier to navigate for the babblers, but it makes the moderators' job much easier because we can often tell at a glance what is happening in all sorts of threads by looking at that page, and it’s easier to see potential moderating issues. HIGH PRIORITY
Threads with quotation marks in the title are showing up with code junk in them - could we please change it so that it recognizes all types of quotation marks and dashes and other punctuation marks? HIGH PRIORITY
The font is tiny, which some people like, but other people have vision impairments and not all people have Firefox, and for various reasons can't or don't wish to download it. There's no way for IE users, which represent the vast majority of internet users, to make the font bigger. Could we have an enlarge font function? HIGH PRIORITY - ACCESSIBILITY
Could we have text back-ups for the important functions that have image buttons only? We do have a good number of dial-up users who turn off their images and they can't use those features. So, those "quote" and "edit" and other buttons at the bottom of the posts should have alternative text back-ups. HIGH PRIORITY - ACCESSIBILITY
A number of people are experiencing sidescroll while reading babble because the columns don't collapse as the screen gets smaller. Is there any way to fix this? HIGH PRIORITY - ACCESSIBILITY
Please alternate grey and white for the posts in the thread - makes babble much more readable and easy on the eyes. HIGH PRIORITY
Old archived babble threads not available to babblers yet. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
Any and all links posted on babble should automatically open in a new window. Right now the default for links is for them to open in the same window, which means it takes people away from babble. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
We would like to be able to copy our text in the reply window when we've written something. You never know when you'll lose a post you've composed because the thread has been closed in the meantime, and a lot of us, if we've typed something long, will copy it to our clipboard. We currently can't do that in the reply window. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
It should be more obvious (perhaps a link or something) on people's posts where to send them a private message through babble. Right now, only the occasional babbler has a little envelope icon under their name, and that seems to only allow you to send them an e-mail at their e-mail address through the system. We should get rid of this ability to send people e-mails, and simply allow people to send private messages to each other on our site only - and have a link on every post that people can click on. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
When people click on "more information about formatting options" it takes them to a blank page. We need a user manual that explains how to use all the functions since they're not the least bit intuitive or user-friendly. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
Profiles - people don't have public profile pages anymore. Used to be that people could click on the person's profile page, and they could see the person's username, babble number, location line, web site, gender, number of posts, etc., with a link to their most recent 50 posts. Now they see nothing except the users most recent posts. Could we please get a profile page for babblers that has all the info that was on the old babble profile pages? It's important for building community. MEDIUM PRIORITY
People should be able to edit their opening posts. MEDIUM PRIORITY
Is there a way to move a large number of threads to a new forum at the same time? This feature would be very useful for moderators when we rearrange forums (e.g. the regional forums, which we've changed a bit). MEDIUM PRIORITY - MODERATORS
Is there a way to make it so that HTML code works in the easy-to-read reply window? If you switch back and forth between the "Rich text" and "disable rich text" windows, it screws up all the formatting. It's very user-unfriendly, and makes it so that people can't embed things like videos, or use HTML tags easily. In the old babble, we could use both. MEDIUM PRIORITY
In the "reply" window, each backspace takes about a second to register. MEDIUM PRIORITY
The ability to change their screen names - babblers should not have the option to change their screen names, but moderators should have that option. If you could make it so that moderators could turn that feature on and off for the babblers (the way it was on the old babble) that would be great. MEDIUM PRIORITY
We need text-wrapping in the reply box when people are cutting and pasting text into the new babble, including for long URLs (especially since babble URLs are now hugely long since they are based on the thread titles rather than numbered). MEDIUM PRIORITY
Is there a way to change the quote feature so that it only quotes the unquoted material from a person's post? Right now we're getting quote box within quote box within quote box, and it's confusing to babblers how to pare it back. MEDIUM PRIORITY
The link to the most recently read post should go down the page rather than starting a new page from that post only. That way people can scroll up a bit if the post is replying to a post above. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
Need an indication on the Today's Active Topics page whether a thread is closed or not. No sense in a babbler taking the time to load the page if the thread is closed. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
There should be a link on every page to our babble policy statement, and it should be spaced and paragraphed the way it was on old babble. Right now, it's squashed into one huge paragraph in the user agreement. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
The "most recent posts" page has a link to the threads people have posted in, but they're in order of the most recently updated, rather than in order of that user's post in them. It would be great if this could be changed. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
We should get rid of the avatar feature. We're not going to turn it on, but people's avatars of Ruckus are showing up with private messages and such, and they can't change the picture currently. LOW PRIORITY
Is there any way to make it so that in the reply window, you don't skip a line every time you hit "enter"? This is very annoying when you want to do lists, for instance, and you actually just want the next line to start on the next line, and not to skip a line. LOW PRIORITY
Let's get rid of the "feedback" feature since the babblers aren't able to receive a response through it. We'll let them give feedback in the feedback threads. I'll create a thread specifically for feedback only, rather than discussion. LOW PRIORITY
What is the logic behind who is a "recent rabble rouser" and "rabble-rouser"? We have babblers who have been on babble forever, who are listed as “recent rabble rousers”. LOW PRIORITY
For moderators: what does "prune" mean under each post? And when I click on it, nothing happens, but that word changes to "graft" on all the posts instead. LOW PRIORITY
Jesus fuck. The above post is an illustration of another issue, clearly! Let me try this again...
List of tech issues on babble
Links need to be made visible. On the old babble and rabble, links were automatically made red. On the new babble, there is absolutely no visual indication that something is a link until you mouse over it. HIGH PRIORITY.
We need to get rid of the happy face that tells people whether you're online or not. It's creepy and really no one's business whether someone is online or not, or when they were last on. HIGH PRIORITY
We need to get rid of taglines. Or at least make it an option that the moderators can turn on and off. They are disruptive to the flow of conversation, and there’s no formatting that differentiates the taglines from the posts. HIGH PRIORITY
People's usernames are being truncated. Please allow them to wrap to the next line. Some of our favorite babblers are now known as "This is my Usern..." HIGH PRIORITY
There is no "quote" function in the reply window page. People are constantly quoting from articles and it makes posts very difficult to read when they can't put the quotes in a quote box. HIGH PRIORITY
We really need those first couple of lines of the most recent post on Today's Active Topics. Not only does it make babble easier to navigate for the babblers, but it makes the moderators' job much easier because we can often tell at a glance what is happening in all sorts of threads by looking at that page, and it’s easier to see potential moderating issues. HIGH PRIORITY
Threads with quotation marks in the title are showing up with code junk in them - could we please change it so that it recognizes all types of quotation marks and dashes and other punctuation marks? HIGH PRIORITY
The font is tiny, which some people like, but other people have vision impairments and not all people have Firefox, and for various reasons can't or don't wish to download it. There's no way for IE users, which represent the vast majority of internet users, to make the font bigger. Could we have an enlarge font function? HIGH PRIORITY - ACCESSIBILITY
We need text back-ups for the important functions that have image buttons only. We do have a good number of dial-up users who turn off their images and they can't use those features. So, those "quote" and "edit" and other buttons at the bottom of the posts should have alternative text back-ups. HIGH PRIORITY - ACCESSIBILITY
A number of people are experiencing sidescroll while reading babble because the columns don't collapse as the screen gets smaller. Is there any way to fix this? HIGH PRIORITY - ACCESSIBILITY
Please alternate grey and white for the posts in the thread - makes babble much more readable and easy on the eyes. HIGH PRIORITY
Old archived babble threads not available to babblers yet. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
Any and all links posted on babble should automatically open in a new window. Right now the default for links is for them to open in the same window, which means it takes people away from babble. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
We would like to be able to copy our text in the reply window when we've written something. You never know when you'll lose a post you've composed because the thread has been closed in the meantime, and a lot of us, if we've typed something long, will copy it to our clipboard. We currently can't do that in the reply window. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
It should be more obvious (perhaps a link or something) on people's posts where to send them a private message through babble. Right now, only the occasional babbler has a little envelope icon under their name, and that seems to only allow you to send them an e-mail at their e-mail address through the system. We should get rid of this ability to send people e-mails, and simply allow people to send private messages to each other on our site only - and have a link on every post that people can click on. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
When people click on "more information about formatting options" it takes them to a blank page. We need a user manual that explains how to use all the functions since they're not the least bit intuitive or user-friendly. HIGH-MEDIUM PRIORITY
Profiles - people don't have public profile pages anymore. Used to be that people could click on the person's profile page, and they could see the person's username, babble number, location line, web site, gender, number of posts, etc., with a link to their most recent 50 posts. Now they see nothing except the users most recent posts. Could we please get a profile page for babblers that has all the info that was on the old babble profile pages? It's important for building community. MEDIUM PRIORITY
People should be able to edit their opening posts. MEDIUM PRIORITY
Is there a way to move a large number of threads to a new forum at the same time? This feature would be very useful for moderators when we rearrange forums (e.g. the regional forums, which we've changed a bit). MEDIUM PRIORITY - MODERATORS
Is there a way to make it so that HTML code works in the easy-to-read reply window? If you switch back and forth between the "Rich text" and "disable rich text" windows, it screws up all the formatting. It's very user-unfriendly, and makes it so that people can't embed things like videos, or use HTML tags easily. In the old babble, we could use both. MEDIUM PRIORITY
In the "reply" window, each backspace takes about a half-second to register. MEDIUM PRIORITY
The ability to change their screen names - babblers should not have the option to change their screen names, but moderators should have that option. If you could make it so that moderators could turn that feature on and off for the babblers (the way it was on the old babble) that would be great. MEDIUM PRIORITY
We need text-wrapping in the reply box when people are cutting and pasting text into the new babble, including for long URLs (especially since babble URLs are now hugely long since they are based on the thread titles rather than numbered). MEDIUM PRIORITY
Is there a way to change the quote feature so that it only quotes the unquoted material from a person's post? Right now we're getting quote box within quote box within quote box, and it's confusing to babblers how to pare it back. MEDIUM PRIORITY
The link to the most recently read post should go down the page rather than starting a new page from that post only. That way people can scroll up a bit if the post is replying to a post above. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
Need an indication on the Today's Active Topics page whether a thread is closed or not. No sense in a babbler taking the time to load the page if the thread is closed. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
There should be a link on every page to our babble policy statement, and it should be spaced and paragraphed the way it was on old babble. Right now, it's squashed into one huge paragraph in the user agreement. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
The "most recent posts" page has a link to the threads people have posted in, but they're in order of the most recently updated, rather than in order of that user's post in them. It would be great if this could be changed. MEDIUM-LOW PRIORITY
We should get rid of the avatar feature. We're not going to turn it on, but people's avatars of Ruckus are showing up with private messages and such, and they can't change the picture currently. LOW PRIORITY
Is there any way to make it so that in the reply window, you don't skip a line every time you hit "enter"? This is very annoying when you want to do lists, for instance, and you actually just want the next line to start on the next line, and not to skip a line. LOW PRIORITY
Let's get rid of the "feedback" feature since the babblers aren't able to receive a response through it. We'll let them give feedback in the feedback threads. I'll create a thread specifically for feedback only, rather than discussion. LOW PRIORITY
What is the logic behind who is a "recent rabble rouser" and "rabble-rouser"? We have babblers who have been on babble forever, who are listed as “recent rabble rousers”. LOW PRIORITY
For moderators: what does "prune" mean under each post? And when I click on it, nothing happens, but that word changes to "graft" on all the posts instead. LOW PRIORITY
Wow, that's a long list, Michelle. I'm wishing the techies the best of luck in fixing all these things. Doing so will make this board almost like old babble! (although old babble had nicer smilies)
If anyone sees anything that didn't make it to my list, please let me know today or early tomorrow and I'll add it. Send it to me at michelle AT rabble DOT ca. You can post it in this thread too, but I might not see it here in time if you don't e-mail it to me.
I don't think it is necessary to have links in red, dark blue would still serve the function.
Though news stories headlines might appear as dark blue instead of of black (not a bad thing in my opinion) I'd guess it would not be a problem to edit the rabble news homepage template only once to maintain the same basic look (note that right now the main hompage link Rabble.ca is in black with a red ".ca" ).
I would echo that these smilies are rather uninspired and expressionless. Surely another set is available.
I just found another lacking feature on the new babble. There is still no 'delete' function on our posts. While we can delete the content of a post through the edit function, we cannot get rid of the post box.
unquoted material from a person's post? Right now we're getting quote
box within quote box within quote box, and it's confusing to babblers
how to pare it back. MEDIUM PRIORITY
I only agree with this change if it allows us to quote all unquoted material, rather than only the unquoted material appearing after the last quote. On the old babble, if a post had an opening paragraph, a quote, and then a closing paragraph, the opening paragraph was unquottable with the quote function. It could only be quoted manually.
I don't think we'll be adding a "delete post" feature. The moderators only will have that capability. And I think we're leaning towards bringing back the edit tags too - more accountability that way.
Also, Left Turn, you suggested a user list that's accessible by everyone. I'm leaning towards no on that one. You can search users already if you have someone in mind, but I don't think there's any need for publicly accessible full lists of babblers.
Has anybody tried Google's new browser, Chrome? They say it "makes the web faster, easier, and safer." As if.
I don't think we'll be adding a "delete post" feature. The moderators only will have that capability. And I think we're leaning towards bringing back the edit tags too - more accountability that way.
Also, Left Turn, you suggested a user list that's accessible by everyone. I'm leaning towards no on that one. You can search users already if you have someone in mind, but I don't think there's any need for publicly accessible full lists of babblers.
Michelle, what's the obsession with "accountability"? I think if babblers make a post, then wish they hadn't made it, they should be able to delete all evidence that they ever hit the "post comment" button. Other current forum software, like smf, has a "delete post" function. I also think that if a babbler makes a post, then wishes they'd worded it differently, they should be able to do so without incurring awful looking edit tags.
It seems to me that you may be putting a desire to catch more infractions of babble policy, ahead of functionality for users. That's a law and order mentality that I wish the left would get away from.
A user list is another function that every other current forum I've been on has. EnMasse has a user list. Bread n' Roses has a user list. I don't see what your opposition to this is? Some of us like to be able to see how many members have more posts that us.
Putting the needs of the host entity ahead of the needs of users, is IMO, a corporate mentality. I think the left is better off to get away from this mentality where organisations that people interact with think they know better what people need, than the people themselves.
Michelle, what's the obsession with "accountability"? I think if babblers make a post, then wish they hadn't made it, they should be able to delete all evidence that they ever hit the "post comment" button. Other current forum software, like smf, has a "delete post" function.
Lots of forum software doesn't allow a total "delete". Why is it troubling that people should know someone posted and then changed their mind?
Most forum software (e.g. phpbb) records an edit if someone else has posted in the meantime and/or if enough time has passed.
Don't care one way or the other. What's the value of a user list, precisely?
SMF allows a total delete. phpbb allows a total delete if it's the last post in a thread.
I had an incident the other day where I intended to edit a post, but wound up making a second post instead. so I wound up with the first post being blank. It looks untidy, and unprofessional.
My bad, I realize most forum software does have an edit tag. However most newer forum software has the edit tag in a smaller font size than the post. I'm not sure if this will be the case here.
A user list can be used to find out how many new members have joined rabble in a given period of time. A user list can be used to find out how many users have more posts than we do (some of us like to use this info to try and move up positions on the list, in terms of post count). It also allows us to browse through the names of all forum members, for curiosity sake, or for ease of finding information we may partially, or incorrectly, remember.
My bad, I realize most forum software does have an edit tag. However most newer forum software has the edit tag in a smaller font size than the post. I'm not sure if this will be the case here.
I'm not even sure if there is a smaller font size.
ETA: A user list can be used to find someone who hasn't posted recently in order to send them a PM.
Here's one I think you've missed, Michelle. It's that the links at the bottom of each babble page are not working properly. It's kind of willy-nilly, actually. Some work; some do not. i.e. babble: Forum Topics | seems to work. But the one following the pipe, | Active Topics does not.
It's an easy one to fix.
It's an easy one to fix.
Indeed: it's simply a matter of changing the target URL from http://rabble.ca/active-topics
to
http://rabble.ca/babble/active-topics
I'm sure it could be done in a single afternoon.
Those Twitter ads at the top of the babble page - I'm seeing headlines like "I'm opposed to putting separatists in power". Does babble really need advertising revenues from those kind of ads?
ETA: never mind, it's been replaced by a pro-coalition post
They're not twitter "ads". It's a twitter feed, which is giving us the latest remarks on twitter about the coalition. It's an attempt to keep rabble readers up to date on the online buzz happening around this. You're just as likely to see a pro-coalition remark.
ETA: A user list can be used to find someone who hasn't posted recently in order to send them a PM.
You don't need it. Just go to your inbox (click on "My Inbox" on the right side menu), go to "compose" and then start typing in the name of the person into the "To" line. Automatically, everyone starting with the first few letters you type in will pop up.
Left Turn, I read your reasons for wanting the user list, but I don't really feel that anyone needs that kind of aggregate information about the forum and its users except for the site administrators.
Thanks, Michelle. I've never seen Twitter before.
God I hate this software. I think it's incompatible with dialup. I had time to make toast and coffee while waiting for the new topic I started to download, and it was still downloading when I came back to the computer.
This software simply doesn't work for me, so I'm off to find another forum.
Come back Boom Boom. The reversion to the old forum can't be that far off.
I wouldn't hold your breath on that, Caissa. However, we definitely do need to fix the problems that we've got now, including heavy loading times.
I'm sorry it's been so difficult, Boom Boom. I don't want to see you or anyone else leave because of the forum software. :(
I'm used to holding my breath until I'm blue in the face, Michelle;I'm a parent.
I think you and Oldgoat have worked above and beyond the call of the duty on this issue.
I think a few others further up the food chain did not adequately think through the re-launch.
Agreed Boom. Caissa I doubt that the powers that be would ever go back even if it is better.
Hard to admit you are wrong and of course the money that was spent.
I really expected that the change would be a Forum pleasing to the eyes. Thinking of course of the other two Forums. Not the content but the look.
Alas, Babble is much worse than it was. Too bad.
You don't need it. Just go to your inbox (click on "My Inbox" on the right side menu), go to "compose" and then start typing in the name of the person into the "To" line.
There is no "My Inbox" on the right side menu. Not on my computer, anyway.
Michelle, maybe I missed it but you list should include, the ability to copy text in the "rich-text" format in the reply box. Right now manipulating text is somewhate difficult, and it is only possible "copy" while in the "non-rich-text" format, and this includes all kinds of code and is confusing.
The babble program should include "Cut" and "Copy" in the context menu that appears when you right-click on the highlighted text you wish to cut or copy. Right now it doesn't, in the rich-text format.
"Active Topics" indicates that this thread has a post by Michelle replying to the OP. But when I click on the link all I find is the OP.
Either Michelle's closing the thread registers as a "post" on "Active Topics" or Michelle actually made a post, then deleted it, but it still remains registered on "Active Topics". Either way, the software should be fixed to prevent this.
Or maybe Michelle's post is there but I can't see it, in which case there are much bigger problems.
Hey, that one above got through, so don't give up yet. I'm getting mixed results with high speed as well, but I noticed it's not confined solely to Rabble. With the unprecedented heavy online activity at other sites in recent days, including the mainstream network online message boards, things can hang for awhile there as well. Also, with the 100 post limit not being as strictly observed as before, there's bound to be time to get your posts through before the thread is closed.
I'm not exactly sure, but perhaps things like loading twitter feed widgets, combined with the number of people online at Babble these days is having a bottleneck effect on the bandwidth. Anyways, off to make my toast.
How do you edit an the first post of a new thread?
____________________________________________________________
There's another old saying, Senator: Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
How do you edit an the first post of a new thread?
You can edit it as often as like - before you post it. After that, unfortunately, history is stuck with your thoughts.
That really really sucks.
I checked in to see how the software is doing, and it seems to be downloading faster. Maybe I'll stick around for awhile.
I checked in to see how the software is doing, and it seems to be downloading faster. Maybe I'll stick around for awhile.
It's just not giving me soft ice cream sprinkled with bits of dried Danish back bacon like I was expecting. Can somebody fix this asap?
Just want to say that Michelle and I just got off the phone from a 2.5 hour conference call with our long suffering and hard working head tech person, and my right ear is sore. I think Michelle will be posting results of the conversation as time permits, but please rest assured that the universe is unfolding as it should.
I was writing a response to a post on the Coalition thread, and my post not only suddenly disappears, but I get re-routed to rabble.ca.
The html window is particularly frustrating.
It doesn't simply insert html code as written, it 'interprets', ignoring and erasing what it doesn't like (forget a bit of syntax? Start over), and inserting formatting it thinks should exist. It can take three or four passes at each post to produce a legible result.
Okay, here's the update from the meeting oldgoat and I had with one of the tech guys yesterday...the notes are pretty rough. Feel free to ask for clarification. :)
Notes from meeting
People being booted from babble after posting thread
· Seems like some sort of glitch - we will keep track of this and tell tech folks about it before reinstating the user the next time it happens.
· Give their username, e-mail address, type of browser, description of what happened, and have the user do screen shots if possible.
Links
· Site-wide issue regarding links/style throughout all of rabble - meeting to happen to plan a style consistent change throughout.
· If no decision within a week or so, then an interim solution will be put in. It absolutely will be changed, however.
Smiley-face online/offline tracker
· Will be tossed - he's getting rid of it asap.
Profiles and privacy
· Need to talk about this further, about what information should go in the profile and what information should remain private.
· Will likely be resolved after Christmas
Taglines
· Getting rid of them until we can format them like our old "from" lines.
· Will be done before Christmas
A new WYSIWYG editor will be put together in order to make editing more user-friendly. Trying to get this done before Christmas. A lot of issues will be addressed with this new editor.
· Quote function will be part of a package of a new editor
. Aiming for before Christmas barring any major complications.
· Right now, use the "paste" function to format text properly
· Problem with reply window and switching between rich text and disable rich text is part of this fix
· Some stuff you can do on preview doesn't show up in real posts - this will change with new editor
Truncated usernames
· This one might take a bit of time, some functionality stuff needs to take precedence. But if it turns out not to be too complicated a fix, then they'll do it sooner.
Lines for TAT
· It's a complicated fix needing custom work.
· top priority, next on the list, but might take some time.
Thread titles with code junk in them
· High priority issue, and they're working on it - has to do with transferring stuff from old site to new site. Shouldn't be happening with new posts. We're to let tech people know if new posts get the code junk in them in place of quotes, punctuation, dashes, etc. Can happen sometimes with pasting from other sources.
· Now that mods can edit old threads, we can fix old thread titles with junk in them.
Editing threads from old babble (moderators)
· Can do it now.
Tiny Font
· Site-wide design issue - design consulting to happen to make consistent throughout site
· It will get there - this is an after-Christmas thing.
Text back-ups for images
· Will look into that. Going to do consistent image buttons, and will have text back-up. Part of new WYSIWG editor
Sidescroll
· Site's columns don't collapse - it's based on 1000 pixel width
· Unless you have a really, really old monitor, you should be able to change your screen resolution width to over 1000 (usually 1024 or above)
· This cannot be changed.
Alternating grey and white - done, although not consistent throughout babble. Mods will send examples of threads where it is not alternating to tech folks.
Old archive of babble threads - in process
Open links in new windows
· Can set that as default - if not a complicated fix, then it'll be done soon.
· Currently people who post links using the URL feature can choose "open in new window" from drop-down menu.
Copying text from reply window to clipboard
· Can do it from the menu, or using CTRL C
· This is only a problem in Internet Explorer. You can right-click and copy in Firefox.
Sending private messages through babble
· People can send private message through their inbox.
· Only administrators can see private message icons now on posts (even mods can't see them) - they're working on this fix.
· Envelopes for e-mails are staying for now, most likely will get rid of them eventually but they have to do other stuff first.
· People can change their settings in their contact information in order to not allow other babblers (not including site administrators and moderators) to e-mail them through the site. Default setting is to not allow it.
More info about formatting - blank page
· Will fix after Christmas, and working on new editor anyhow.
Profiles
· Coming, after Christmas, privacy issues to be worked out
Users editing opening posts
· Should be able to fix this - they'll take a look at this - hopefully before Christmas
Way to move large number of threads to a different forum at the same time
· Creating administrative pages that will make admin easier for us
· Mods will send suggestions for things we'd like to be able to do.
Backspaces go too slow in reply window
· Okay now - resolved
Changing screen names
· Make it so people can't do it - done now.
· Make it so mods can change anyone's username - done now, we think.
Text-wrapping in the reply box when people are cutting and pasting URLs
· Also will be resolved with the new editor
Quotes within quotes within quotes
· Might need to write a new module for it, which is a large amount of work. They'll get back to us on that. Keeping it on the list.
Link to most recently-read post should go down the page rather than starting a new page from that post
· They're working on it.
Could we have an indication on TAT whether a thread is closed or not
· On the list - not a high priority but will get done eventually.
Link on every page to babble policy statement
-links to be put in
· Content issue - rabble will re-write and integrate policies, etc.
Most recent posts page
· After Christmas
· The function of the "most recent posts" page was supposed to be to let individual users know which of the threads they've posted in have been most active recently.
Avatar feature
· Not being turned off profiles because used in different parts of site. People can change their picture. No avatars on babble.
- 65px X 65px dimensions, 100kb max.
Skipping lines in reply window when hitting enter
· New editor will deal with this.
Feedback feature has been removed.
Recent-rabble-rouser - how does this work?
· Posted less than 30 times on the new site. Only counts forum topics, not replies currently. Might be something buggy, has to look into it. Low priority.
Pruning and Grafting
· Feature is for moderators to move posts from one thread to the other. Might be a bit wonky right now. Mods will play with feature and figure it out.
Can I suggest a font that doesn't overap on two consecutive lines? It's a little hard on the eyes.
Also, a comments section immediately tagged onto articles?
Here's a serious tech issue:
Remember the thread on the Old Babble called "Alice Klein's Rhetorical Vapidity"?
It got migrated to the "New Babble" in two bleeding chunks:
http://rabble.ca/babble/rabble-news-features/alice-kleins-rhetorical-vapidity
http://rabble.ca/babble/rabble-news-features/alice-kleins-rhetorical-vapidity-0
How many other threads got this treatment? Why did it happen? Can the threads be merged to repair the breach?
As René Magritte would say, "This is not a tag line". Only he'd say it in French. You may find it rather annoying to have to discipline yourself to ignore parts of certain other people's posts - but not everyone's. Wouldn't it be better to abolish them?
Why has the "Quote" button disappeared from all but the Opening Post in each thread?
I opened a thread and thought it had been "closed" by the mods because the quote buttons were all gone. The only clue I had that the thread was still open was that there was the usual tiny, inadequate "Comment Box" at the bottom of the page.
So how do I quote someone's post???
Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. - Homer Simpson
Why has the "Quote" button disappeared from all but the Opening Post in each thread?
That's weird. I see "quote" in every post. I just used it now to quote your post. Is that just because I have moderator permissions?
How about others? Do you see the "quote" button in people's posts?
I'm eyeballing quote buttons a-okay. Roger that. But it's still not giving me soft ice cream sprinkled with bits of dried Danish blue cheese. Why is that? And I'm running IE v7.0. Cap-com this is Apollo 13, do you read? over.
Well, I'm still not getting quote buttons. I am getting Edit buttons for posts I have made, but no quote buttons except in the OP.
And I'm running the same operating system and browser I have been using for the past three years.
Here's a partial screenshot showing the right hand side of the first three posts in this thread:
Note that there is a quote button on the OP, but not the next two posts.
Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. - Homer Simpson
And you can quote me on that - if you can find the frikkin' quote button.
Try rotating your game controller until you get more than 70° yaw at Gimbal lock. You'll have to fire all three stabilizer rockets in unison or youll veer off and miss the earth entirely. You should see quote button on horizon there somewhere. I'll ask cap-com for a procedure in the mean time.
Well, now I'm getting SOME Quote buttons, but NOT OTHERS!
The following is part of my screenshot of the first three posts in THIS THREAD:
I can quote my own OP; I can't quote Unionist's reply; but I can quote George Victor's follow-up.
NOTE also that the "link" button is missing from Unionist's post, but not GV's.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??
Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. - Homer Simpson
I'm not seeing any quote functions.
Now I'm not seeing quote buttons. Just edit buttons
Now I'm not seeing quote buttons. Just edit buttons
Now I'm not seeing quote buttons. Just edit buttons
Oh Christ, now I'm seeing Fidel's posts in triplicate. Time to get some sleep.
Michelle asked:
"Do you see the "quote" button in people's posts?"
No. This has been another edition of Simple Answers To Simple Questions. (But I'm serious. No Quote button.)
Michelle asked:
"Do you see the "quote" button in people's posts?"
No. This has been another edition of Simple Answers To Simple Questions. (But I'm serious. No Quote button.)
I never use the quote button. I always do square bracket quote square bracket. But I could see a quote button when others couldn't -- and I just used it.
The quote and edit buttons have disappeared from my babble pages. Weird.
Now the edit button is back, but still no quote button.
Maybe one of the techies is working late tonight and doing some experimenting?
Boom Boom, I am in the same situation.
No edit or quote buttons for me. I'm wondering if there could be two versions of the s/w running simultaneously on the same server or even two different servers, if there is another server to handle load. One of the first things I learned as a junior software designer was code versioning technique. I had a nasty habit of sometimes having several different versions of the latest source code opened in different edit windows while inadvertently debugging older versions of compiled code. It sometimes caused me to fix the same bugs several times. It was a mystery to me for a little while. CVS is a pretty decent code versioning platform.
That probably IS what's happening. One of the things we mentioned during our tech meeting was that there was no text back-up for the commands that use image buttons. So perhaps they were working on that.
They're also working on a new editor for posting, so they might have been working on that as well.
I will e-mail a support request about this and see what's happening.
Try and word it a little better than I did. They might not take being accused of amateurism so well. I know I didn't at the time. I couldnt hide it though as one deadline passed and another closed in on me. I really goofed things up for myself at work then. I made great progress in creating more work for myself than was necessary. Later I realized it was a good thing I wasn't working on hardened product code, or things could've been even worse for me. I like the new rabble, btw.
I realize we're all just guinea pigs in a giant cyberlab, but would it not be possible for someone to advise us in advance that certain basic functions of the software are going to be experimented with or taken out altogether?
It would save us a lot of time not having to wonder, report and debate about the existence and cause of these sudden losses of functionality.
... not Quote buttons.
P.S.: The "multiple servers" theory doesn't explain why I can quote every post in this thread except Unionist's, and no posts (other than OP's) in any other threads that I've found.
ETA: Well, now the problem seems to have been fixed. Let's hope it stays fixed.
CVS is good when you have more than one person working on the *same source code* It necessitates checking in and out of code from a central repository and attaches a date and time stamp to the latest version(s). Oh boy, I feel an anxiety attack coming on just thinking about it.
Michelle, have you talked to the tech folks about making it so we can edit the opening post in threads we create? I do not see any mention of this in your notes from your meeting with the tech folks.
· Should be able to fix this - they'll take a look at this - hopefully before Christmas
Closing for length, folks.