Site upgrade news

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Unionist

Relax, Magoo, your post is safe and sound in this other thread.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well, that one was me basically "re-making" that post -- you can see that it's "after" by the timestamp.  However, the original seems to have come back from the dead in this thread, at #93.

lagatta4

I do hope we'll be able to send private messages soon, in particular because someone here (Unionist) happened to post the death notice of someone I knew. I did manage to contact those close to this person (Richard Wagamese). 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It also appears that babble in unavailable on mobile devices.  Even babble's main page at rabble.ca/babble shows up as "Not Found" if you're using a device.

NorthReport

Ok, what's the secret to starting new threads?

SeekingAPolitic...

I getting a certificate error before getting on rabble.  I had a similiar problem with my personal website, had to spend 35 for a year to get the certificate.  The web clients default to https but if you use http you dont see the certificate error, something to do with authenication and secure buying on the the web.

NorthReport

Why are we not showing the number of views for each thread anymore?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

There is not a word limit to each post.  Is that temporary or will it be something we'll have to live with?

And is there any word as to when we'll be able to send private messages again?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

So the ONE THING that might have been considered an upgrade or improvement to babble -- the small notification that would say, for example, "3 New" beside topics on the TAT -- appears to have been removed.

Glad to see the techs removing improvements, rather than enabling private messaging, or permitting the posting of images.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

OK, maybe I'm just losing my marbles, but there it is again.  I'm just happy to see it back; I kind of like it.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

It doesn't show up if your not logged in. It is about the only thing I can see that is an improvement. It now actually works and that makes it way easier to access the spot you left off at.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Ah, thanks.  Perhaps that's all it was.  In which case I retract this:

Quote:
Glad to see the techs removing improvements, rather than enabling private messaging, or permitting the posting of images.

... not that PMs and images wouldn't be a good thing tho.

mark_alfred

A few things I've noticed.

  1. Signing in on Firefox gives an "insecure password warning".  This may not be new, given that it's a new feature on Firefox.  But, just thought I'd let folks know.  https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Protect-your-privacy/Insecure-password-wa...
  2. Using html code in the rich text editor ("Filtered HTML") does not work.  It does work in the plain text editor, however.
  3. The reply function, which is supposed to default to a link to the post a user is replying to (providing this link at the top of the post), but instead ends up pointing to the post directly above (and later defaults to the last post in the thread -- or at least the post number indicated suggests this), rather than the post to which a user was actually responding to.  I think this is a good idea, so that people can see what's being responded to within its context rather than the quote function where people often take words out of context, but the reply function is not yet working right.
  4. As others have pointed out, the PM function seems to not be working.
  5. As before, spell checking with a browser's spell check function (assuming a user has this enabled) only works in plain text editor.
  6. Under "My account", there's no longer a list of my past posts or threads, or connection to my past PMs.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I'm not going to hold my breath on this, but I'd love to hear the rationale for this "upgrade".  It's been 30 days now, and forgive me for saying that this upgrade didn't really seem to improve anything.  Is anyone else curious what all of this was for?

Unionist

The "Donate" button (upper right) is working perfectly.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Still waiting for:

1. The ability to post new threads. We can go through the motions to create new threads, but they don't show up anywhere on the site.

2. Private Messages.

3. Naming/embedding links.

4. Our posting history.

5. Emoticons.

I've sent a message to this effect via the Feedback button in the lower left-hand corner of the site, highlighting that numbers 1 and 2 are the most pressing priorities.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Ordinarily, a full month after an "upgrade" to a website, you might expect to discover the odd rough patch that still needs to be sanded down.

But we can't even post images.  Srsly, this new software doesn't support THE POSTING OF IMAGES?

Can anyone from rabble tell us what's the holdup here?  As Unionist points out, any glitches in the "money accepting" functionality of the site seem to have been addressed.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Not to be the complainer here -- I assume that the tech staff need to know what's wrong -- but here's one little thing.

Currently, links to (say) an external article or blog post simply appear in bold.  Which is to say they don't look any different from any other thing I might choose to bold.

Any chance that some techie could (literally) take less than a minute to edit the CSS file and make a:link a different colour, a different typeface, or a different something else?

 

Unionist
Left Turn Left Turn's picture

The lack of being able to post new threads is really hurting. There's been no discussion of this week's federal budget, because there's been no ability to start a thread about it.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Is the softwear team just straight out refusing to tell anybody anything, Meg?  It really doesn't make any sense that we STILL don't have the use of all of those feature.  This many weeks in, what could possibly be THIS big of a hang-up

wage zombie

The software team works on the software, and it's not their job to engage with posters on the message board.  While it might seem like it would take them just a few minutes to chime in about technical issues, it never works out that way (speaking as a developer, who has tried to do so during messy upgrades on message boards).

My assumption is that Rabble has a list of outstanding issues, and they are prioritizing those issues to the software team.  While some of these issues seem like they could be solved very quickly (eg. showing links in a different colour), it never works that way for the devs doing the work.  Presumably, Rabble is prioritizing the remaining issues by section, and while some of the Babble issues have gotten attention, they're not going to get back to the Babble issues again until they have enough capacity to sort them all out.

For those wondering about the "rationale for the upgrade", Drupal 6 reached end of life, meaning there wouldbe no more security upgrades and sites running Drupal 6 could potentially be insecure.  I think the upgrade was in the works for a while, proceeding slowly with a very limited budget, and they decided that given all the factors (inclding the number of post-upgrade headaches), now was the best time to flip the switch.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The software team works on the software, and it's not their job to engage with posters on the message board.

True.  It's the job of rabble/babble staff to do this, based on input from that dev team.

Quote:
My assumption is that Rabble has a list of outstanding issues, and they are prioritizing those issues to the software team.

1.  David Climenhaga says that on some of his blog posts, the periods don't look as round as they should.  Can you look into this and report back?

2.  The "Donate to Rabble" button still won't accept bitcoin??  Assume overtime is pre-authorized.

3.  Could the pictures on the main page be more colourful?  Google claims there are 16.7 million colours, but some of these photos look like they barely have 10 million.

4.  Why does the rabble.ca logo change size at such a low frame rate?  Do we need more processing power?

5.  Can we make the word "Advertise" wiggle, or bounce, or something?

...

92.  Photos on babble

93.  Private messages on babble

94.  Babble on mobile devices

95.  Babble quotes in one style only

96.  A "Report Post as Offensive" button so mods know what's going on

97.  Links that look like a link

98.  New threads that don't take hours or days to appear (or not at all)

99.  A posting history

100.  Access to the "Contact" page, even if nobody really wants to be contacted right now

Quote:
Drupal 6 reached end of life, meaning there wouldbe no more security upgrades and sites running Drupal 6 could potentially be insecure.

If you use Mozilla, you can click on the small (i) on the Address Bar to see site information and it says "Connection is Not Secure".

I took a screencap in order to post a picture, but because I've made a quote in this post, I can't do that.  Quotes only work with filtered HTML, and pictures only work with Plain text.  Is that "out of the box" Drupal?? 

ed'd to add:  just for the record, I get that you're probably referring to exploits and other malicious security breaches, and not SSL, but still.  If security is the greater goal, it's a start.

 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..just started a new thread. wondering if it will show up in a couple days if at all.

NorthReport

A few new threads have been started up since the update - what's the secret as I want to post about fearless girl

Unionist

When my new threads didn't appear, I simply clicked on Contact in the menu below and threatened to start up a rival discussion board. Within minutes, all my threads showed up en masse.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Unionist wrote:
When my new threads didn't appear, I simply clicked on Contact in the menu below and threatened to start up a rival discussion board. Within minutes, all my threads showed up en masse.

This indicates to me that new threads are being flagged for moderator approval. Surely this can be fixed, most likely by whatever means the flagging of posts was fixed.

It appears to me as though the tech crew (which is probably just 1 person, as I doubt rabble has a budget for any more people) are waiting for issues to be reported to them, rather thsn testing/checking to ensure that every thing is working properly. If I'm correct, this would appear to be the wrong approach.

The correct approach, in my opinion, would have been to catalogue all the functionality of the old version of rabble/babble, and then to ensure that the functionality of the new software matches the old. Anything less is not a proper upgrade.

Caissa

I think Unioinist was being punny. re. En Masse.

Unionist

*BUMP*

Just so that all the work we did to outline upgrade problems don't get missed by the tech people. This is the thread. We don't need a new one. Just address the problems. At least, acknowledge what we're saying and tell us if and when the problems are being resolved.

Thank you.

Unionist

Caissa wrote:

I think Unioinist was being punny. re. En Masse.

Thanks, Caissa. Sometimes I'm too subtle. Who would have thought?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Testing this out with Andy Everson art

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

[quote]Testing this out with Andy Everson art[/quote]

And I'm testing to see if quotes and pictures can live in harmony.  If we see both, the answer is a "yes"!

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/16kaogo.jpg[/IMG]

ed'd to add:  OK, no joy in heaven.  Let's try the "image" button.

stay calm!!!!

ed'd again to add: looks like the "image" button uses standard HTML, so UBB image code doesn't work. Anyway, we can go with this, I guess.

ed'd one MORE time to add: ugh. I just revisited this, and the image still kills the quote.

NorthReport

Thanks guys.

And thanks to Meg as well.

Progress is being made.

NorthReport

Now being able to once again edit the first post in a thread is helpful so thanks for that.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

babble is still inaccessible on a mobile device (phone, tablet, iPod, etc.)

What's funny about this is that pretty much ANY web page should be accessible via mobile, but it would seem that babble is checking to see whether a user is on mobile, presumably with the intent of delivering a more mobile-friendly version of the page, but there's no such page defined, so it throws an error.  That's my guess.

rabble could fix this by adding such a page/CSS for mobile, or it could fix it for the time being by NOT checking for mobile.

At any rate, this problem literally means that if you don't have or use a desktop computer, you absolutely cannot access babble.

NorthReport

Actually Magoo this post is from a mobile phone

It was unavailable at the beginning of the upgrade but that has been fixed now

Have you tried it today?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Huh.  Actually I did, on an iPod, and on an Android phone.  rabble will load, but babble says:

Quote:
Page not found

The requested page /babble could not be found.

Forum topics and Active topics tank the same way.

NorthReport

I can see why you are having problems

i logged out and then tried to get back to babble and I couldn't but I was able to get back in through my history pages

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Thanks for the tip.

If I google some babble page and click on the link, it shows up, and other controls (e.g. the Active Topics link) on that page will also work.  Formatting is atrocious, including some pages that have only ONE WORD per line, but I can at least see what's new.

MegB

NorthReport wrote:

Actually Magoo this post is from a mobile phone

It was unavailable at the beginning of the upgrade but that has been fixed now

Have you tried it today?

A message from our "tech support team" to all babblers:

There is no tech team currently. There is one person, with a mountain of work, who b/c of budget constraints was forced to push the site live long before it was ready. It has been rebuilt almost from scratch and there is a lot that is not working, and staff haven't the time with their other work to properly test things to see if it works the way people use it. 100% there is a proper/better/more respectful way to do it. I know it, and I cringe knowing all the users are having to deal with it, and be the frustrated on the fly testers by default with little idea when things will be fixed. I know ppl will leave in frustration, but the reality is rabble.ca has grown into something that is hard to sustain under todays standards with the resources it has. Anyway.. babblers certainly have a right to be frustrated, and I'll keep plugging away at things. But it's not fast, and I don't have the additional volunteer time I used to beyond my work hours. ..

Unionist

A message from one babbler back to our tech support "team":

Thank you for all you do. There is no way I will leave rabble, or babble, or stop donating, because of problems beyond any human control. I can't imagine what we can do to help on the technical side, but if there's anything, please, just don't hesitate to ask. And - thank you, again.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I'm not personally averse to being a "beta tester", under the circumstances.

I only wish there were more of a process.  Right now it kind of feels like babblers post about random deficiencies, and then with little or no fanfare, some of those deficiencies get randomly fixed.  I'd be perfectly OK with a new thread, dedicated SOLELY to reporting deficiencies, even if that means having to re-type or copy/paste things I've reported elsewhere.  And to whatever degree is possible, I'd love to get, in return, some sense of what the priorities are for fixes, and when they're likely to be fixed.  I don't even care if it's an ordered list (fix the most important problems first) or a triaged list (fix the easiest-to-fix problems first, and lots of them).

I would also love to hear more about why what should really be "out of the box" functionality isn't working.  Ordinarily, a development like this would begin with an out of the box install of Drupal, and then customizations (logos, typefaces, styles, templates, branding elements, etc.) would be added as feasible.  But the out of the box stuff should, as the name suggests, work immediately. 

How is it that Drupal has difficulty interpreting UBB code (which it was designed to do) and requires tech intervention for something as basic as an image? 

How is it that babble is not (easily!) viewable on a mobile browser when it works just fine on a desktop browser?  If you don't mind end-users seeing a tiny little version of the site on their phone, you literally don't need to do a single thing to enable mobile accessibility.  Mobile only becomes an issue if you want mobile users to have a special, mobile-optimized experience.  So I can't think of any good reason why my mobile browser cannot seem to display babble the same way it can display any other web page.  Is babble configured to detect mobile, and redirect mobile users to a page or style sheet that doesn't exist?  That's all I can think of.  So it would be nice to hear more.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

At the moment, we don't seem to be able to edit existing posts.  We could until yesterday.  Any explanation as to why editing was disabled?

Meg: This is me editing your post. Is this a temporary glitch or can you still not edit?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Evidently, Meg can edit Ken's posts, but I cannot.  I hope rabble fixes that soon.  ;)

Seriously though, I appear to be able to edit my posts.  I haven't tried "saving" an edit in a few days, but the button's there and the editor loads.

ed'd to add:  it works at my end.

mark_alfred

[self-deleted my previous post here]

I thought the BBCode for image could work with plain text editor, but I'm not sure now.

ETA: I don't think so.  I think the only way to embed an image in a post is to use the image button in the rich text editor.  The Compose tips page says

If you enclose a URL in an [img] tag, then it will be replaced with code to display the image. For example A good screenshot: [img]http://example.com/screenshot.png[/img] will show you the screenshot (if it exists).

I have not been able to get this to work.  Below though is an image rendered using the image button in the rich text editor, which seems the only way to get images posted.

Emily Carr painting

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Testify, sign!

Plain old HTML, using the Plain text editor, also works, but holy 1998, Batman!

mark_alfred

That's interesting. The fact that HTML is "filtered" ("Filtered HTML") is kind of annoying. I played with inserting an image and added width, height, border, and alignment attributes using the plain text editor. I switched between plain text editor to rich text editor to see how it was rendered, and then back again, and noticed that the additional attributes disappeared in the switch, leaving only the image without the attributes. Perhaps the attributes would be preserved if I didn't switch between the editors while composing. Well, may as well try that...

mark_alfred

1

Bosch image with no attributes.

mark_alfred

<p>2</p>

<p><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Hieronymus_Bosch_056..." width=423 height=513 alt="Bosch image" border=1 align="left"></p>

<p>Okay, above the image is downsized with a border, and (I think) should be to the left of this text.</p>

mark_alfred

That clearly didn't work. I think I messed up on the border attribute. I'll try leaving that out.

Bosch image

Well, time to see if that works.

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