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BC NDP: Who should be the next leader? II

Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

Continued from here.


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NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008
Bob Simpson says "regime change" needed to heal rift in B.C. NDP

 

http://www.straight.com/article-363226/vancouver/bob-simpson-says-regime...


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

What's Moe Sihota up to these days?  Laughing


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

I'm actually disappointed that Jenny Kwan will not run, as I believe she has what it takes. Maybe there could be a draft for her to run. Too bad for the bruised feelings or egos, time to get over it and pick the best person for leader. If she doesn't run possibly she could be appointed deputy leader after the leadership race.


Interested Observer
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Joined: Sep 25 2008

Well, you know I lean green, but it's not like their leader will become the next premier soon, so I figure I still have a say.

Frankly can't stomach most of the BC "Liberal" Candidates, and I welcome Carole's departure, as there is now the potential for someone out there to be a good Premier from the 'left.'  I would like to see a Strong 'scrappy' leader who will be more critical of the current Government than their own party, although if necessary have the capacity and willpower to stand down industrialist interests, but otherwise work to be conciliatory. Someone who knows where they are coming from, but is willing to work for the common good and be post-partisan. Someone who is unafraid to make compromises on HST, as it's unlikely it can be scrapped in my view. Someone who wants to encourage small-businesses, yet can stand up to Big Business interests. Someone who's not anti-union, but is willing to stand up to Big Union Bosses. Obviously someone who has strong green credentials as well. Oh, and they HAVE to support some form of proportional representation. [I used to be an MMP person, but STV kinda grew on me as it encouraged a grass-roots kind of mla selection process to counter the power of the leaders over nomination papers.] I can't guarantee I will vote NDP if there is such a leader as I live in Carole's riding and I don't think I can forgive her for not supporting pro-rep, the whole Carbon Tax thing, and I find her rather uninspiring, but otherwise I want to see something positive in this province happening soon. Oh, and I'm big on GLI, obviously. 

Now, I haven't payed that much attention to BC politics, as it always kind of depressed me, but is there anyone who fits that bill or close to it? 

 

Also, Remind can you stop trying to guilt-trip people into supporting your views? It's getting kinda tiring. 

Also II, Stockholm's "Tories with Composters" thing is mostly a GPO thing as they are more conservative than their counterparts. If you want greens to vote for you, stop calling them names, and give them some respect. It's counterproductive otherwise. 

Also III, please stop trying to diminish the GPC or GPBC leaders, you just look petty and vindictive. I dislike Carole, but I don't start dissing her all the time. I'm also getting tired of Brian White doing that with Carole, even if I largely agree, it's too over the top!  

Feel free to ignore me though. Just sayin'.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

I'm beginning to think that perhaps someone from outside the current caucus is needed. What about one of BC environmental leaders? Or a labour leader? And don't think for a second that Gregor is not looking at the situation very closely. 

 

 Maybe if you don't have anything to say, perhaps you should not be talking to the press.

 

No date set for B.C. NDP leadership vote

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/no-date-se...


NorthReport
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I suppose Kennedy Stewart is now off the BC NDP Xmas card list.

 


NorthReport
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What is Corky Evans up to these days. I want someone who realized there was a problem with our leadership and addressed the issue, not someone who just merrily went along realizing something was wrong, and not doing anything about it. I'm looking for a leader, someone who has a pretty face, but who can kick ass when required. 


Stockholm
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Joined: Sep 29 2002

Being the first to identify a problem doesn't mean that someone is "leadership material".


scott
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Joined: May 20 2001

NorthReport wrote:

Bob Simpson says "regime change" needed to heal rift in B.C. NDP

http://www.straight.com/article-363226/vancouver/bob-simpson-says-regime-change-needed-heal-rift-ndp-caucus

Bob is right about this. Carol James is the symptom, not the problem. The NDP needs more than a new leader, they need direction and some clear, consistant,  progressive policies.

__________________________________

One struggle, many fronts.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Nor is doing nothing.

Stockholm wrote:

Being the first to identify a problem doesn't mean that someone is "leadership material".


scott
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Joined: May 20 2001

From a previous thread, but better late than never:

remind wrote:
... how nice to see Green Party supporters and voters here telling the BCNDPers what is up and wrong..

If you think that Green supporters don’t care, or have an interest in, what happens in the NDP, you would be wrong.

Because our FPTP electoral system pretty much keeps Greens from office, many greens look to other parties to actually enact green environmental policies. Many greens expect the Green party itself will never win seats in the leg. This wouldn’t really matter, if other parties implemented a green program.

The BC-NDP has a pretty good program on the environment, as it happens. Unfortunately we heard nothing about it during the last election. Instead we had the boneheaded “Axe the Tax” position which promptly alienated environmentalists. This points to the real problem with the BC-NDP, an unclear program and sudden flip-flops in policy that emanate from the back rooms, and not from the membership.

Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Green Party, so I am free to take out an NDP membership and participate in the selection of a leader. I hope some credible candidates crop up. I am leaning towards Gregor right now, but that could change.

__________________________________

One struggle, many fronts.

 


scott
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Joined: May 20 2001

NorthReport wrote:
What is Corky Evans up to these days. I want someone who realized there was a problem with our leadership and addressed the issue, not someone who just merrily went along realizing something was wrong, and not doing anything about it. I'm looking for a leader, someone who has a pretty face, but who can kick ass when required.

I know what you mean, having had my ass kicked by him a couple of times.

He is keeping busy running a nursery down the road from me.

Because of boundary redraws, we now live in Kootenay-West (Katrine Conroy NDP) and not his forner riding of Nelson-Creston (Michelle Mungall NDP), so he no longer has a riding to run in unless one of them steps down.

__________________________________

One struggle, many fronts.


Interested Observer
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Joined: Sep 25 2008

scott wrote:

Because of boundary redraws, we now live in Kootenay-West (Katrine Conroy NDP) and not his forner riding of Nelson-Creston (Michelle Mungall NDP), so he no longer has a riding to run in unless one of them steps down.

 

 

That's too bad. If he became leader though, couldn't he just run in Vernon? 


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Too bad Leo Girard is not a BCer. I love that guy.


Malcolm
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Joined: Mar 14 2004

Stockholm in previous thread wrote:

Brian Mulroney plotted against Joe Clark and then replaced him. Paul Martin plotted against Jean Chretien and then replaced him. Ignatieff had his people out undermining Dion at every opportunity and then he took over. In Australia, Julia Gillard deposed Kevin Rudd and then took over.

Stock, you missed an important word in my post: "openly." Officially, Mulroney endorsed Clark in the leadership review in 83. Martin left the dirty work to lieutenants. Don't know the particulars of the ALP stuff. I'm given to understand from someone with decent connections that the puppet master for the latest coup was actually one of the "loyal" MLAs.

Aristotleded24
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Joined: May 24 2005

scott wrote:
The BC-NDP has a pretty good program on the environment, as it happens. Unfortunately we heard nothing about it during the last election. Instead we had the boneheaded “Axe the Tax” position which promptly alienated environmentalists. This points to the real problem with the BC-NDP, an unclear program and sudden flip-flops in policy that emanate from the back rooms, and not from the membership.

THe problem with the way Carole spoke about the carbon tax was to frame it as being against taxes. When Layton spoke against a carbon tax in the federal election, he didn't do it for the sake of opposing taxes, he said, "a carbon tax is bad environmental policy because...and we think cap-and-trade is better because...."


Basement Dweller
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Joined: Nov 27 2006

I wonder if my MP Fin Donnelly would run. Not known to be from either of the warring factions, has his own local support base that would add NDP seats (in the Eastern Suburbs especially), GREEN CREDIBILITY, and charismatic.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Carole is steping down as Leader - the war is over, and NDPers need to put their differences aside. Let's lose this mentality aboujt who was on which side. Quite frankly who cares any more. What we do need to do is pick the Leader that is most electible, and regardless of whether or not they are presently in the Caucus. 

More importantly, people need to start signing up new members now, as there will be little opportuinity to do that after Dec 31, as we need a 90 day minimun membership period to be eleigible to vote for an end of March leadership contest date. The present NDP deicision-makers should be working overtime to sort this out in the next few days.  We have no choice due to the volatility in the BC Liberal camp.


Vansterdam Kid
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Joined: Apr 15 2004

NorthReport wrote:

I suppose Kennedy Stewart is now off the BC NDP Xmas card list.

 

I'm always amazed that he's so well educated, yet never has anything particularly interesting to say. I wish they'd go to Dennis Pilon, or Norman Ruff more often, if they wanted the "academic's quote."

As for Gregor, I think I remember reading somewhere that he isn't interested. I'm not surprised because provincial politics, and the strong party discpline that it requires, doesn't seem to suite him. Plus he'll have enough trouble getting re-elected as Mayor, seeing as that race could be wide open with the right NPA challenger and if COPE puts up a mayoral candidate.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

VK, interesting that you say that.

I have been wondering about Vision Vancouver. Ever been to one of their recent events? It's hard to walk around without tripping over some developer. Representing the people of Vancouver, don't make me laugh - I'm seriously beginning to have my doubts about them. Inaccessible, alouf, No time for the little people now that they have been elected. I think I'm going to renew my COPE membership.


NorthReport
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BTW if you want to follow what is going on in politics in BC read the Georgia Straight - particularly columnist Charlie Smith --------------- If people in the party are smart they will listen to Jenny. Thank goodness for her leadership.

 

Holidays play havoc with B.C. NDP's search for interim leader

The public face of the NDP's so-called Baker's Dozen says she has no problem with Carole James staying on as party leader until an interim head can be found.

Jenny Kwan, who last week unleashed a blistering assessment of Ms. James's leadership that helped spark her resignation, said she doesn't believe there's any harm in letting the party head hold on to her post now that the search for a new leader has begun.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/holidays-p...


NorthReport
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MP Peter Julian not ruling out B.C. NDP leadership run

http://www.straight.com/article-363346/vancouver/mp-peter-julian-talks-b...


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008
A sleeper issue in the B.C. NDP leadership race: Gordon Campbell's tax cuts

Now that James has announced her resignation as leader, future NDP leadership candidates can reopen this debate.

Should the next NDP leader follow in the footsteps of Obama and maintain his or her right-wing predecessor's tax cuts? Or should the NDP revisit this issue in light of all the revenue that could be generated from raising taxes on the wealthy?

Supporters of higher taxes could frame the issue in this way: by boosting the amount of tax that high-income earners pay, the government could return that back to the average person in the form of lower medical-services premiums.

After all, medical-services premiums are a regressive tax in that middle-income and high-income people pay the same amount per month. (There is premium assistance for low-income residents.)

B.C. and Ontario are the only provinces that charge medical-services premiums. In B.C., these fees are expected to generate $1.74 billion in revenue in the 2010-11 fiscal year. It will top $2 billion by 2012-13, according to this year's fiscal plan.

The right wingers in the media and the business associations will no doubt howl at the mere mention of a personal-income tax increase for the wealthy. But it could go over well with many NDP members in a one-member, one-vote leadership race if it means a rollback in medical-services premiums.

 

http://www.straight.com/article-363301/vancouver/sleeper-issue-bc-ndp-le...


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008
I agree. James was a great lady but no party leader

 

http://www.theprovince.com/entertainment/James+great+lady+party+leader/3...


Erik Redburn
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Joined: Feb 26 2004

NorthReport wrote:

A sleeper issue in the B.C. NDP leadership race: Gordon Campbell's tax cuts

Now that James has announced her resignation as leader, future NDP leadership candidates can reopen this debate.

Should the next NDP leader follow in the footsteps of Obama and maintain his or her right-wing predecessor's tax cuts? Or should the NDP revisit this issue in light of all the revenue that could be generated from raising taxes on the wealthy?

Supporters of higher taxes could frame the issue in this way: by boosting the amount of tax that high-income earners pay, the government could return that back to the average person in the form of lower medical-services premiums.

After all, medical-services premiums are a regressive tax in that middle-income and high-income people pay the same amount per month. (There is premium assistance for low-income residents.)

B.C. and Ontario are the only provinces that charge medical-services premiums. In B.C., these fees are expected to generate $1.74 billion in revenue in the 2010-11 fiscal year. It will top $2 billion by 2012-13, according to this year's fiscal plan.

The right wingers in the media and the business associations will no doubt howl at the mere mention of a personal-income tax increase for the wealthy. But it could go over well with many NDP members in a one-member, one-vote leadership race if it means a rollback in medical-services premiums.

 

http://www.straight.com/article-363301/vancouver/sleeper-issue-bc-ndp-le...

 

By George I think he's got it!   By allowing the idle rich to avoid taxes (did you know I pay more in taxes than most large corporations do?) the middeclass have to pick up most the burden.  And the poor have to remain in permanent misery.  The only meaningful argument (aside from corporate media hype) is that big money won't invest here.    But that is a simple question of political will and the ability to read recent history --they're doing it anyway, except entirely on ther terms.  And the not unheard of ability of more than one country getting together to decide minimum standards of business and finance and regulation.  Something else already done, except under the post-Reagan regime entirely on their terms.  

(FYI, Carole James was the ONly NDP candidate who refused to accept the necessity of raising <income, property or corporate> taxation again; even the one candidate more openly "third way" than her didn't go so far.  That is why James lost my support in 2009.  <her first election she did hint within the party that she might...>   That will remain my bottomline social democratic vs neo-liberal vs litmus test, and I will not let anyone forget it.)


scott
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Joined: May 20 2001

NorthReport wrote:
Carole is steping down as Leader - the war is over, and NDPers need to put their differences aside. Let's lose this mentality aboujt who was on which side. Quite frankly who cares any more.

This was never JUST about Carol James. It is about restoring democracy and accountability to the party. As Jenny Kwan's letter says:

Quote:
Under Carole James' leadership, there has been a steady erosion of our democratic principles. Debate has been stifled, decision-making centralized, and individual MLAs marginalized.

Many are shocked at how some critical decisions are made or how caucus decisions have been later altered.

Equally dismaying is how MLAs then learn about these decisions through the media. This poor decision-making practice and a lack of genuine consultation within our Caucus is an ongoing source of frustration for many within the Caucus.

As well, for too long there has been a clear lack of direction under the leadership of Carole James. Whenever a challenging policy decision arises, often the default position is to avoid taking a stand.

The delay in grappling with difficult but critical public policy choices often results in making the NDP irrelevant in the hearts and minds of British Columbians.


If the leader is changed without changing the culture at the top, it will have all been for nothing.

__________________________________

One struggle, many fronts.


freeasabird
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Joined: Nov 18 2007

Corky Evans would make a great interim leader. He may not want the job permanently but he would be a good man to come to the aid of the party to calm the waters,


Erik Redburn
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Joined: Feb 26 2004

scott wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
Carole is steping down as Leader - the war is over, and NDPers need to put their differences aside. Let's lose this mentality aboujt who was on which side. Quite frankly who cares any more.

This was never JUST about Carol James. It is about restoring democracy and accountability to the party. As Jenny Kwan's letter says:

Quote:
Under Carole James' leadership, there has been a steady erosion of our democratic principles. Debate has been stifled, decision-making centralized, and individual MLAs marginalized.

Many are shocked at how some critical decisions are made or how caucus decisions have been later altered.

Equally dismaying is how MLAs then learn about these decisions through the media. This poor decision-making practice and a lack of genuine consultation within our Caucus is an ongoing source of frustration for many within the Caucus.

As well, for too long there has been a clear lack of direction under the leadership of Carole James. Whenever a challenging policy decision arises, often the default position is to avoid taking a stand.

The delay in grappling with difficult but critical public policy choices often results in making the NDP irrelevant in the hearts and minds of British Columbians.


If the leader is changed without changing the culture at the top, it will have all been for nothing.

 

New leadership can make a difference and burying some of our axes is essential for healing --the NDp remains a coalition of sorts -but yes, a new party culture and more democratic systems are essential for this to make any lasting difference.

 


Erik Redburn
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Joined: Feb 26 2004

freeasabird wrote:

Corky Evans would make a great interim leader. He may not want the job permanently but he would be a good man to come to the aid of the party to calm the waters,

 

Corky would have made a great leader himself, but I'm afraid the old guard will never allow for even that much.  We are still "traitors" in the Sinclair-Schreck playbook, and can only be forgiven by being herded back to our natural role as dependable sources of money, free labour and unquestioning support.   That will not happen.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Now's your chance. Instead of the lefties complaining about the NDP, you can all join the party and democratically vote for the prospective new leader. Hurry up though, as there will be a cutoff date soon, and you may miss it. Laughing

 


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