Can Carole James win the next election is the question

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NorthReport
Can Carole James win the next election is the question

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NorthReport

Never mind all the other mumbo-jumbo that is being spewed about. This is the question, and it is the only question about James' Leadership.

Can Carole James win the Next Election?

The third solution is slightly radical -- for the NDP at least -- but has the advantage of being democratic and resolving the thorny issue much more quickly and effectively than any other option.

The NDP provincial council could simply vote to move up the date of the Nov. 2011 convention and its scheduled leadership review to early next year.

As the party constitution states: "Time and place of Conventions shall be determined by Provincial Council" on not less than 90 days notice.

That means the NDP convention could take place as early as March 2011.

With Premier Gordon Campbell now staying in office until well after Feb. 2011, when the BC Liberal Party holds a special convention to change its leadership elections rules, there seems no chance of an election earlier than the summer or early fall of next year.

 

Whether BC votes next year or in 2013, the question looms large right now.

 

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/11/16/CanJamesWin/?utm_source=daily&utm_m...

NorthReport

 

Ex-MLA Corky Evans joins calls for NDP leadership race

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Corky+Evans+joins+calls+leadership+race...

Fidel

Carole's time has come. She's no quitter. The first democratically elected female premier of B.C. is on deck, folks! Carole will put the beautiful back in Beautiful British Columbia.

remind remind's picture

No, the real question is: who other than Carole James can win the next election?

havana

That is a decision for 10,000 people to make, not you or I.

remind remind's picture

Huh?

Fidel

Campbell's a quitter because he is a privileged and connected white male who did a job for rich friends of the B.C. Liberal Party. Good riddance! Campbell is a most forgettable stooge. His own party has already forgotten him, just like the Liberal Party in Ontario is abandoning Pinocchio McGuilty's ship.

Carole is no quitter.

She's worked hard for the job she will be elected to do.

Premier Carole James.

I like it.

Shane Dyson

Given some circumstances (i.e.: better advisors and campaign strategy than last election), I believe the NDP, with Carole James as leader can and will win the next election. As a provincial council delegate, my executive has discussed the leadership question and supports Carole and the constitutional leadership process. And I agree with the direction my executive has given me.

But I do like the question raised by Remind.... "Who other than Carole James can win the next election?"  

I've been reading and hearing from those upset with Carole as well as some who wonder out loud if she can win. The dissenters have yet to toss out a name that they would support in her place. 

Here's the challenge to those proposing a leadership change.... put forth a name.

 

bekayne

Fidel wrote:

Carole's time has come. She's no quitter. The first democratically elected female premier of B.C. is on deck, folks! Carole will put the beautiful back in Beautiful British Columbia.

If a week is a long time in politics, what's two and a half years?

Fidel

These aren't US-style elections. Only some phony majority of voters in Campbell's riding ever voted for him specifically. In Canada we vote for the party and individual members of parliament and not premiers or even PMs as per American-style presidential or senate races.

Go Carole!

havana

remind wrote:

No, the real question is: who other than Carole James can win the next election?

 

The real question is: when will 10,000 people get to decide on the next leader.

10,000 people would be the approximate membership of the BCNDP last time I checked, unless it has taken another precipitous drop.

Kathy Corrigan, Claire Trevena, Maurine Karagianis, or Dawn Black would be candidates that would attract my attention

Unionist

remind wrote:

No, the real question is: who other than Carole James can win the next election?

Bill Vander Zalm.

 

NorthReport

Let's see.

Rob Flemming

Mable Elmore

Adrian Dix

Jenny Kwan

Leonard Kroug sp?

Bob Simpson

Harry Lali

Glen Clark

Harry Bains

Moe Sihota

Diane Watts

Gregor Robertson

Don Davies

to mention a few.

Need I continue?

 

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

Great - any of them actually want the job?

 

Any of them actually willing to say so publicly?

NorthReport

I suppose we're about to find out.

Vansterdam Kid

Who cares.

Basically all the 'loyalists' demanding that the 'rebels' who criticize James put up names have the process all mixed up. If there actually is a leadership convention called for once the Provincial Council meets, interested parties will come out of the woodwork and declare their interest. It isn't up to peons like myself to anoint leaders. I could create some anonymous page like the one that attempted to recruit Guy Gentner but it wouldn't make a difference in my continued disapproval of Carole James. She, and her leadership team, have earned that status through their own incompetence.

Besides, unlike the self-absorbed pundits and "opinion leaders" in this province (or any place really) I don't pretend to have some magical insight into who should run. It's all idle speculation as the process of running creates a lot of insight into who would actually make a good leader. If once people step up they actually turn out to be worse than James and if she actually manages to articulate some sort of a vision on relevant issues then I for one will begin to "approve" of her leadership.

As to Tielman's article, I think the third option is best. That's unless her and her backers are correct that most (as in a strong majority of - meaning at least 60-70%, but it should really be over 80% to quell all rumblings) people in the NDP really do support her leadership. Frankly though, I find that highly unlikely.

Vansterdam Kid

As for the title of this thread the answer is yes and no.

If the election was held today, or over the course of a 28 day campaign called from today, I'd say she would win the election.

But despite David Shreck's confidence that the Liberals won't be able to bridge the polling gap, I'm not so sure she could win an election in 2013. Besides, even if she does win that battle, she has one-term premier written all over her. Not to mention the fact that I doubt she, nor any of the people running the party right now, would have as substantial an impact in moulding the province in the image that an NDPer would like as Gordon Campbell has in the way that an average 'free enterpriser' likes.

Aristotleded24

Vansterdam Kid wrote:
Basically all the 'loyalists' demanding that the 'rebels' who criticize James put up names have the process all mixed up. If there actually is a leadership convention called for once the Provincial Council meets, interested parties will come out of the woodwork and declare their interest. It isn't up to peons like myself to anoint leaders. I could create some anonymous page like the one that attempted to recruit Guy Gentner but it wouldn't make a difference in my continued disapproval of Carole James.

Exactly. The fact that people within the NDP are openly calling for a leadership review speaks volumes. Often party loyalists will put up a public front to show unity even though privately they have no confidence in their leader because they understand how much energy a leadership review costs (see Dwain Lingenfelter in Saskatchewan). Something is seriously wrong.

Maybe there is no better candidate than Carole, who knows. The only way to determine this would be to have a leadership review, and if she wants to keep her job as leader, she can let her name stand and let the chips fall where they may.

Either way, the BCNDP has a serious problem, and burying your head in the sand is not going to make it go away. Fix it so that you are so strong and united that you cannot help but win the next provincial election.

remind remind's picture

NorthReport wrote:
Let's see.

Rob Flemming

Mable Elmore

Adrian Dix

Jenny Kwan

Leonard Kroug sp?

Bob Simpson

Harry Lali

Glen Clark

Harry Bains

Moe Sihota

Diane Watts

Gregor Robertson

Don Davies

to mention a few.

Need I continue?

You did not even start....

GingerGoodone

Can Carole James win the next election?  The answer is it's possible, but not very likely.   

A more important question is whether the NDP could/would DO anything to reverse the damage the Liberals have done to BC, if they won under the present leadership(?)

And the answer is no. 

GingerGoodone

And for those here who don't believe that the present NDP leadership can do what's required, here is a recently floated petition:   

 

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/40585.html

 

 

It's easy enough to sign, and pass it along to others. 

 

 

Fidel

Mugging party leaders is what the federal Liberals do when it looked like Dion was about to actually oppose a Tory government as leader of the official opposition.

Carole James is no quitter. NDPers are not quitters as a general rule. And the NDP doesn't orchestrate coups against their own people like so many back-stabbing Liberals.

GingerGoodone

And what about a leader who refuses to oppose the sitting government?   Because NDPers don't swear loyalty oaths to their leaders either. That's not what they're supposed to be about.  

 

Here's the neglected intro to the petition by the way:

 

http://richardhughes.ca/page/2/

 

 

 

 

bekayne

The world can never have enough meaningless internet petitions

GingerGoodone

If you don't believe in it then you don't have to sign. 

remind remind's picture

yep, let's be stupid and level the playing field for the BC Liberals, thereby insuring then get back in..

NorthReport

Perhaps a little substance might brighten up your posts but right now all I'm hearing is criticism from another bunch of losers. Spit it out man, what policies are you in favour of. Get your platform up and running and then let the people decide.

GingerGoodone wrote:

Can Carole James win the next election?  The answer is it's possible, but not very likely.   

A more important question is whether the NDP could/would DO anything to reverse the damage the Liberals have done to BC, if they won under the present leadership(?)

And the answer is no. 

Maysie Maysie's picture

North Report, don't call babblers "losers". 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The same people like Shreck are saying the same thing they have been for three elections.  The last two elections were winnable and the last election was a travesty with Carole and her team running a piss poor campaign and handing Campbell his majority.  If this group of losers had won an election in the last decade then I would be alright with them continuing to run the party.  But they are not winners they keep getting their asses kicked by Howe street.  Time for a new brain trust since Shreck and Moe and the rest of the old guard don't appear to be able to win anything except stacking NDP meetings.

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The same people like Shreck are saying the same thing they have been for three elections.  The last two elections were winnable and the last election was a travesty with Carole and her team running a piss poor campaign and handing Campbell his majority.  If this group of losers had won an election in the last decade then I would be alright with them continuing to run the party.  But they are not winners they keep getting their asses kicked by Howe street.  Time for a new brain trust since Shreck and Moe and the rest of the old guard don't appear to be able to win anything except stacking NDP meetings.

Nobody, I mean nobody, thought the 2005 election was winnable for the NDP.

The fact it became winnable is testament to the campaign Carole James ran.

The party went from two seats to thirty-three.  Not good enough?? Really?

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

In the 2009 election, under Carole James, the NDP got 42% of the vote.  That was the highest NDP percentage in five elections.

ETA - in fact, her last two campaigns mark a turnaround in a slide of NDP vote percentages going back to the Bob Skelly days.

Dave Barrett, Mike Harcourt, and Glen Clark all formed government with lower percentages of the vote.

The only times the NDP have ever won in BC have been when the right wing vote was split.  The NDP has never formed government without a split on the right.

Centrist

Lou Arab wrote:

Nobody, I mean nobody, thought the 2005 election was winnable for the NDP.

The fact it became winnable is testament to the campaign Carole James ran.

The party went from two seats to thirty-three.  Not good enough?? Really?

From the perspective of going from 2 seats to 33 you are right. But Campbell slashed and burned everywhere after 2001, there were mass protests, lying about BC Rail, etc. etc. By 2002 the political ground began to shift.

The NDP was even leading in the polls in 2004 - at one point by a huge margin of 45% to 33% in July, 2004. Newly minted 2001 Lib and Green voters flocked back to their natural NDP default option in 2005. The NDP just retained their 42% vote in 2009.

I'm of the opinion that it was more anger at the Libs and the anti-Gordo sentiment than any pro-Carole sentiment as well as the NDP regaining its natural voting base. Going from a stable 42% to winning seems to be another huge step altogether.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sorry carry on doing what you are doing.  I am sure the next election will be a charm for you guys.  You are right the cabal running the BC NDP are great strategists and next time their brilliance will shine through.  Just so you understand the numbers you are throwing around, the electorate of BC is voting less and less with every election.  Larger part of a smaller pie doesn't tell me the party is connecting with anyone just that more lefties are still holding their noses and voting.  Don't worry the left will still vote for the NDP in the next election it is just that no one else will.  Don't you get it that if you don't attract new voters you are going nowhere. 

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

the electorate of BC is voting less and less with every election.  Larger part of a smaller pie doesn't tell me the party is connecting with anyone just that more lefties are still holding their noses and voting.  Don't worry the left will still vote for the NDP in the next election it is just that no one else will.  Don't you get it that if you don't attract new voters you are going nowhere. 

Even that's not true.

According to wikipedia, the following number of people voted in elections since 1991:

1991 - 1,462,467
1996 - 1,582,704
2001 - 1,591,306
2005 - 1,762,450
2009 - 1,640,542

And as for 'the cabal' being great strategists - I'm sure some of them are good, and some of them are bad.  I don't believe for a minute however, that the people running the campaigns will be all that much different if Carole isn't leader.

The fact is Carole has been leader for two of the most successful campaigns (measured in percentage AND raw vote totals) for the BC NDP.  The party's share of the vote (and raw vote) has climbed in both campaigns.  Has it been enough to win - no.  Could anyone else have done better - I really doubt it.

Brian White

But the population is rising!  Also The government of BC is trying to get as many people with fixed abode as possible on the register.

It has never been easier to vote or to register to vote (unless you are homeless).

100, 000 of a DROP! in the total vote from 2005 to 2009 is proof of the winning ability of James.  All she had to do was hold her voters.  Instead she went after high living gas guzzling selfish bc lib voters and she lost more than she gained.

Lou Arab wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

the electorate of BC is voting less and less with every election.  Larger part of a smaller pie doesn't tell me the party is connecting with anyone just that more lefties are still holding their noses and voting.  Don't worry the left will still vote for the NDP in the next election it is just that no one else will.  Don't you get it that if you don't attract new voters you are going nowhere. 

Even that's not true.

According to wikipedia, the following number of people voted in elections since 1991:

1991 - 1,462,467
1996 - 1,582,704
2001 - 1,591,306
2005 - 1,762,450
2009 - 1,640,542

And as for 'the cabal' being great strategists - I'm sure some of them are good, and some of them are bad.  I don't believe for a minute however, that the people running the campaigns will be all that much different if Carole isn't leader.

The fact is Carole has been leader for two of the most successful campaigns (measured in percentage AND raw vote totals) for the BC NDP.  The party's share of the vote (and raw vote) has climbed in both campaigns.  Has it been enough to win - no.  Could anyone else have done better - I really doubt it.

Vansterdam Kid

That's not true, Lou.

For starters, BC's population has exploded in the last twenty years from 3,282,061 in 1991 to 4,113,487 in 2006 (this trend hasn't stopped or slowed very much in the last four years). Yet despite the province growing by at least 25%, the absolute number of voters has only increased by 12%, including an over 100K drop between 2005 and 2009. Had the NDP retained the absolute number of voters they received in 2005 they would've only been 20K behind the Liberals, which considering the NDP's more 'efficient' vote, would've probably led to a win. To be fair to the BC NDP, voter turnout has been decreasing throughout Canada, but this is a pretty lame defence. 

In any case, as I've said many times Carole James was the correct leader for 2005. And had she proved to be an effective parliamentarian I would've thought the same for 2009. That said no viable alternatives had shown up significantly before 2009, so there was no point in getting rid of her then. The fact that she, and her team, have handled this crisis of leadership so poorly simply re-enforces my view that they all need to go.

Aristotleded24

Vansterdam Kid wrote:
BC's population has exploded in the last twenty years from 3,282,061 in 1991 to 4,113,487 in 2006 (this trend hasn't stopped or slowed very much in the last four years). Yet despite the province growing by at least 25%, the absolute number of voters has only increased by 12%, including an over 100K drop between 2005 and 2009. Had the NDP retained the absolute number of voters they received in 2005 they would've only been 20K behind the Liberals, which considering the NDP's more 'efficient' vote, would've probably led to a win. To be fair to the BC NDP, voter turnout has been decreasing throughout Canada, but this is a pretty lame defence.

And yet, in Calgary Naheed Nenshi surprised everybody and not only succeeded in winning the Mayorality race, but actually motivated people to vote. So if people have a reason, they will go out and vote. A winning strategy would involve actually talking to people on the ground where they live, not from the political backrooms.

While I'm at it:

[url=http://www.straight.com/article-222079/bc-ndp-contributors-might-want-as... does the money that people donate to the BCNDP end up anyways?[/url]

Quote:
Both the B.C. Liberals and the NDP appeared to devote the bulk of their expenditures on placing ads on conventional television stations, including the evening newscasts.

The biggest beneficiary appeared to be Canwest Global Communications Corp.

Yes, those NDP donors wrote lots of cheques that ended up filling Canwest's empty coffers.

...

It's time to let the NDP and B.C. Liberal braintrusts in on a secret: conventional television is in decline because many viewers are moving up the dial to watch specialty channels, such as Newsworld, MuchMusic, TSN, and Business News Network, to name a few. They're also watching ethnic stations.

And the growing number of people who don't watch television are either reading print publications or scouring the Internet.

...

The next time the NDP comes begging for your money, you might want to ask these fundraisers: are you going to blow my hard-earned dough on conventional television advertising that people can block out by hitting a button on their converters?

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

It's worth remembering that most parties, after taking the kind of beating the NDP took in 2001 never recover - think Sask PCs, Federal PCs, BC Social Credit - all had to rebrand and wait a few cycles before they were even competitive.  Given the rise of the Green Party vote in 2001, it's a miracle the NDP survived the next election with any seats at all.  Carole James (and Joy MacPhail for her amazing work in the legislature) deserve a lot of credit.

As for the 'but the population exploded' argument.  Sure, the population got bigger.  But so too did the NDP vote.  Carole James found more votes, and a higher percentage than most previous NDP leaders.  You can't ignore that.  She has been growing the NDP vote, when it counts, at election time.

Yes, expanding the vote among those who don't vote is an important part of political strategy these days - I don't disagree.  But I don't for a minute believe that anyone else among the NDP would have (or will do) better.

The NDP vote has grown over Carole's leadership.  It's moving in the right direction.  If she lost a bunch of seats last time, I might agree she needs to go.  But it's remarkable how well the party has done over her tenure.

I can't believe that energy spent trying to trigger a leadership war wouldn't be better spent gearing up for the election, or working on recall campaigns.

Brian White

Leadership is overrated. Nevertheless, a simbol is needed in any party.  James is a simbol of failure.  She earned that title by failing against a clearly corrupt and idiot bc lib party. 

So even a barely competent new leader without the taint of failure is a necessary improvement.

Gordon Campbell is a horror story. So in your face that he spat all over Bennet!

But just like an errant church, they rally around their monster and shield him from the rule of law.

Those in the higher reaches of the NDP must have known too. About his psyco behaviour in meetings.

And his vile treatment of his own female ministers.   But the attitude seems to be wait and watch and see.

It is just like a neighbour seeing a husband bash his wife or daughter  from one end of the house to the other every day and doing nothing.

They are crap. They did nothing on the BC Rail scandal, they did nothing on rigging the ALR and all the other issues. Nobody is calling attention to the bc lib change to their leadership race rules.  Weighting the votes so that deligates from white only northern ridings with only a few voters can outvote ridings with many voters in surrey and richmond.  Places with lots of Asian voters are getting screwed in the "New" leadership choosing process.

If it is blatant racism, call them on it. Brown people deserve a fair vote too.

But if you look closely at the NDP under James,  they are doing much of the same types of unfair things to solidify James power base.

I do not want a kinder gentler Campbell (James).

I want decent people that I can vote for.  James does not measure up.

 

Vansterdam Kid

Remarkable? Here the Liberals are approaching the depths of late 90's NDP government popularity and the NDP is still stuck within the margin of error of what they had gotten last election. Yeah, they'd win the election if it were held today, but it isn't something to jump up with joy about. It's remarkable they're not winning over anyone new. It's remarkable they're not going to inspire the electorate to increase in size nor have they. It's remarkable the party itself has shrunk to an amazingly small size for an alleged mass party (in the polisci sense) that, unlike in many provinces such as Alberta or Ontario, is a "governing party" that is either official opposition or government. This is important because it will need its base to defend it when it wins and the "business community" begins its inevitable assault on the "socialist hordes." This last thing is why I'm certain that an NDP win would be a one term thing. Considering the lack of vision and sustainable progressive policy its put forward, other than relying on the coattails of a former Socred Premier's opposition to the current Premier, its clear it wouldn't leave much of an impact on the province, let alone clean up after the Liberals mess should they loose the election after next. I mean shouldn't the NDP be formulating a progressive vision for the province? It's a progressive party. It's remarkable that all of this is happening, has happened and will happen despite the extreme unpopularity of the current government. One would think this is the perfect time to descredit the government's ideology too.

As for the growth of the party's vote, we can debate the numbers till the cows come home. The fact remains the NDP vote increased by about 95K between 1991 and 2009. The Province's population increased by about 10 times that. Are we to be impressed that they managed to only convince 10% of new British Columbians to have voted for them? It's remarkable alright. In pathetic sort of way.

As for the energy being used by this debate, it's perfectly placed. Leadership campaigns bring in new members and more money to the party. The BC NDP might have less than 10K members, which is remarkable considering how unpopular the government is. Remarkable in a pathetic sense mind you. Yes some people will be displeased by a leadership campaign, but if everyone involved is truly opposed to this government and wants to articulate a progressive alternative they will rally around whatever the outcome is. Despite me wanting to replace James, should she win a resounding vote of confidence I'll have no option but to assume that her team is the alternative to this government and I will hope (despite my misgivings) that they actually begin to formulate an alternative vision to this government beyond vapid platitudes. Besides, the election can't legally be held until May 2013 so there's plenty of time to gear up for an election after a leadership contest.

As for your point about recall campaigns, I realize hardcore partisans of all stripes think they're a perfectly fair way to re-fight the last election to a more desirable outcome. But you people need to give your heads a shake and think of the public good. The targets are as high and hard to achieve as they are because recall campaigns aren't meant to be launched lightly. Nor are they actually supposed to be a means of re-fighting the last election. The point is to recall ethically challenged MLA's. The only time one would've worked would've been to recall a Liberal MLA during the height of NDP unpopularity for writing letters to the editor praising himself under fake names. He resigned before the campaign could be certified as successful, but nonetheless, even when the NDP government was unpopular and Liberal activists tried to recall vulnerable members who were barely re-elected in 1996 they failed miserably. Individual NDP activists can involve themselves in whatever they want. The party has even encouraged it. But it also realizes that they shouldn't be directing actual party resources to supporting recall campaigns. That sort of a strategy would backfire and turn BC into a California of the north where government can never do anything because of endless referenda and recall campaigns. Carole James commented on this sort of populism and warned against it. I agree with her completely.

Stockholm

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The last two elections were winnable and the last election was a travesty with Carole and her team running a piss poor campaign and handing Campbell his majority.

Actually the NDP "campaign" in 2009 was highly successful. The problem was with what led up to the campaign. All the polls showed that when the election was callede, the NDP was losing by as much as 18 points. They narrowed that gap from 18 points to 3.5 points. I call that a successful campaign. Carole James campaigned well, she performed well in the leaders debate. I think she and the party can be criticized for starting the campaign in such a weak position - but the campaign itself was actually quite successful in terms of narrowing the gap by almost 15 points.

Vansterdam Kid

There's another side effect of the drop in turn out, a drop in supporter intensity. In the US the Democrats were expected to be slaughtered because of the "intensity gap." Some polls even had them down by as many as fifteen points, which would've probably meant the Republicans would've gained something like 100 house seats and 11 senate seats. That being said, those progressive voters who were on the fence between not voting and voting probably realized the alternative was far worse so they held their nose and voted Democrat. That said, it probably had a huge effect on their get out the vote and fundraising operations, which meant that the Democrats losses were far worse then they would've been had they actually been appealing to their base.

The same could be said for the last BC election. Most progressives were very demoralized by the 2005-2009 period. Yes the Liberals stopped the biggest cuts, but they didn't reverse any of the damage they did and the NDP didn't do anything effective to push them to reverse that damage or highlight the way that damage affected the average British Columbian. Instead the NDP focused on "civility" and forging a "new tone" in the legislature. Frankly it seemed as if a three person opposition was just as effective as a 33 person one. Look, obviously had the opposition pursued a strategy of being a bunch of shrill crazies who scream murder anytime a Liberal cabinet minister stood up that wouldn't have been sensible either. But it appeared as if the party was getting smacked around by the Liberals while the government got away with murder. Admittedly most of the NDP caucus were rookies, which can explain their performance. But there were very few decent communicators among them.

So, as this relates to the American example, many progressive leaning people probably didn't even bother voting (reflected in the lowered turnout), donating to the party or volunteering for it. That said it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to simply show up and vote, even if one isn't enamoured with the alternative. That combined with some misteps on Gordo's behalf and the fact that everyone assumed the Liberals were going to win (for almost a few years before the election) led to a closer result than expected.

Aristotleded24

Stockholm wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:
The last two elections were winnable and the last election was a travesty with Carole and her team running a piss poor campaign and handing Campbell his majority.
Actually the NDP "campaign" in 2009 was highly successful. The problem was with what led up to the campaign. All the polls showed that when the election was callede, the NDP was losing by as much as 18 points. They narrowed that gap from 18 points to 3.5 points. I call that a successful campaign. Carole James campaigned well, she performed well in the leaders debate. I think she and the party can be criticized for starting the campaign in such a weak position - but the campaign itself was actually quite successful in terms of narrowing the gap by almost 15 points.

1) Accepting your contention that the BCNDP started off the campaign they were close to 20 points behind, that in itself is a remarkable failure, considering how unpopular the BC government is.

2) Falling 15 points behind a government that unpopular is also remarkably bad, considering that before both the 2005 and 2009 provincial elections, as I'm sure our fellow BCers can demonstrate, the NDP at times polled ahead of the Liberals (which before 2005 was remarkable, considering how unpopular the previous NDP government had been and the fact that the NDP had been reduced to 2 seats).

3) The 2009 showing was not that much an improvement over the showing in 2005. That in itslef speaks volumes about the failure of the NDP to gain traction, and is grounds for a leadership review in and of itself.

4) The fact that people within the party are openly calling for a leadership review at any time, let alone when the government is unpopular, shows that the BCNDP is in complete disarray and is simply not in a position to marshall the resouces needed to fight a winning campaign. These issues will continue to drag down the BCNDP until they are aired out and resolved properly.

Vansterdam Kid

I completely agree Aristotleded. And your last point is especially important. The quicker this gets dealt with the quicker the party can move on and focus on rebuilding its infrastructure, winning new supporters and maybe even avenging the 2001 election in style. There will always be people who are displeased with the route the party is taking, whether it be stylistically, ideologically or many other reasons. But regardless of ones ideology or position on Carole James leadership, everyone can agree that the quicker and fairer this is dealt with the better. Now I realize that the loyalists are going to try to do everything they can to quash a leadership review. If they don't have a strong majority infavour of Carole James' leadership then they're making a grave mistake, because this will only strengthen the hand of the rebels and allow the discontent to simmer further.

Aristotleded24

And if Carole is confident in her leadership, she will say, "I welcome a leadership race, I feel I'm qualified because (insert reason here) and I look forward to demonstrating that in a spirited contest.

GingerGoodone

Thats just it.  IF she was so confident then it would be the smart thing to do politically, shoring up her so-far untested mandate.  

GingerGoodone

Stockholm wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The last two elections were winnable and the last election was a travesty with Carole and her team running a piss poor campaign and handing Campbell his majority.

Actually the NDP "campaign" in 2009 was highly successful. The problem was with what led up to the campaign. All the polls showed that when the election was callede, the NDP was losing by as much as 18 points. They narrowed that gap from 18 points to 3.5 points. I call that a successful campaign. Carole James campaigned well, she performed well in the leaders debate. I think she and the party can be criticized for starting the campaign in such a weak position - but the campaign itself was actually quite successful in terms of narrowing the gap by almost 15 points.

Success in politics, as in sports and other forms of managed warfare, isn't measured by 'closing gaps'.  It's measured by winning.  Then doing something positive for those who elect you and pay for the whole game.  There is no reason at all for the progressive majority on the left to support "compromise" candidates if they can't even WIN. 

 

GingerGoodone

*redundant post*

GingerGoodone

I thought you were unimpressed with her leadership as well?  Strange.  Anyhow, I have posted our groups' platform here already, basically more in-party democracy, as the party constitution supposedly recognises, and returning to at least somewhat more progressive policies.   More far sighted leadership, which has led us to victory before and left us all with a legacy worth defending, would be nice as well.  But this is just a petition, so it's not the place for that.   It was mostly designed to spur some action, given the refusal of most of the executive to listen to their dwindling numbers of paying members.   Not as some have implied (or demanded) a cynical device to advance some other candidates ambitions.    

NorthReport wrote:

Perhaps a little substance might brighten up your posts but right now all I'm hearing is criticism from another bunch of losers. Spit it out man, what policies are you in favour of. Get your platform up and running and then let the people decide.

GingerGoodone wrote:

Can Carole James win the next election?  The answer is it's possible, but not very likely.   

A more important question is whether the NDP could/would DO anything to reverse the damage the Liberals have done to BC, if they won under the present leadership(?)

And the answer is no. 

Vortigern

Someone above mentioned the fact that, with Carole as leader, the NDP in 2009 managed to get a greater share of the vote than at any time since Bob Skelly in 1986. Bear in mind, though, that despite that vote share, he only ever fought that one election. Carole, meanwhile, has had two elections, and we're arguing that she should lead the party into a third? Accepting that her performance in 2005 was great, and the result better than any pundit I'm aware of ever predicted, what in the 2009 result suggests that Carole's leadership should not be reviewed?

Setting aside all the opinions expressed on here, all the entrenched ideological positions, all the complaints about the party executive(s) of the past decade, there is one truth that none of us should ignore. As a democratic party, and as the alternative to the Campbell government which has ruled directly from the Premier's office with no regard at all for democracy, Carole's continued leadership can, nay must, be subject to the will of the memberhip.

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