Can Carole James win the next election is the question

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NorthReport

Mushroom cloud of doom settles over B.C. politics

The recall campaign was born of anger over his government's sneaky introduction last year of a harmonized sales tax. A binding, province-wide HST referendum is to be held next September and British Columbians will have an opportunity to reject the tax. By then, the Liberals will have a new leader, and the province a new premier. But that person will be HSTdamaged.

It's no wonder that two people whom polls suggested British Columbians thought could clean up the mess and rebuild the party work outside provincial politics.

But neither Carole Taylor, B.C.'s former finance minister and Chancellor of Simon Fraser University starting next June, nor Dianne Watts, popular Mayor of Surrey, want the role. Both women have firmly, recently, said ''no.''

A current caucus member will likely win the party leadership in February. The task will be to mend internal divisions and to restore public confidence in the party. And to accomplish all this over the course of what will be yet another unprecedented, tumultuous period in B.C. politics: Through an MLA recall campaign and an HST referendum, and toward a provincial election, fixed-dated for May 2013.

That's not a job. That's being strapped to a cruise missile and being shot into space. Betting starts now on when the next Liberal leadership crisis explodes.

Watching events unfold with modest satisfaction is Carole James, B.C.'s provincial NDP leader. Ms. James is not a charismatic politician but she is a person of sound character, compassion and determination. She led her party back from its brink since taking the leadership in 2003.

And her NDP is now way out front in public polls. What seemed unthinkable last year-- when Mr. Campbell won his third successive provincial election with his centre-right coalition -- is now for serious consideration: The possibility of a left-leaning B.C. government, led by Ms. James.

She offers a compelling message. The Liberals have "lied" again and again since 2001. On their promise to not expand gambling in the province. On their pledge to not sell B.C. Rail. On their budgets. Ms. James can campaign into the next election claiming she represents honesty and trust.

That is, if she isn't done in by her own enemies. Knives have been drawn inside her own caucus and in some ridings. Ms. James may herself face an internal revolt.

She acknowledged that this week, in an interview conducted inside her legislative office suite. "There are always critics," she said. The current ones represent just "a small group." She called them "a distraction," adding that NDPers are "better than anyone at infighting."

Well, almost.

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Mushroom+cloud+doom+settles+ove...

Brian White

Carole lied about the carbon tax and she also  said she supported pro rep.  2 pretty big lies actually.  She is no saint.

remind remind's picture

Lou Arab wrote:
Yes, expanding the vote among those who don't vote is an important part of political strategy these days - I don't disagree.  But I don't for a minute believe that anyone else among the NDP would have (or will do) better.

The NDP vote has grown over Carole's leadership.  It's moving in the right direction.  If she lost a bunch of seats last time, I might agree she needs to go.  But it's remarkable how well the party has done over her tenure.

I can't believe that energy spent trying to trigger a leadership war wouldn't be better spent gearing up for the election, or working on recall campaigns.

Exactly, and the "get her out"  chorus is either those who are NO friends of the NDP, or are too sexist and/or racist to think critically.

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

I suspect it's a group of people who could have taken the leadership back in 2003 - when nobody wanted it.

Back then, the job of rebuilding the NDP seemed way too hard, far too impossible a hill to climb, so the only contestants were mostly people with little to zero political profile.

Now that the NDP is a contender again (because Carole and others did the work no one else thought possible, or wanted to bother with) the leadership is suddenly a prize worth having.

Or so it would seem.  If Carole is forced out, the next leader will come to power in the middle of a nasty civil war.  And, as they say - he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.  This battle will continue until that leader is pushed out.  This current battle is not new, it has roots going back to the Barrett vs. Berger days. 

And time hasn't made the battle any less stupid.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Mushroom cloud of doom settles over B.C. politics

She acknowledged that this week, in an interview conducted inside her legislative office suite. "There are always critics," she said. The current ones represent just "a small group." She called them "a distraction," adding that NDPers are "better than anyone at infighting."

Her and her team proved that in spades in the nomination battles in the lead up to the last election.  In fighting is definitely the problem with the party.  After awhile the red baiting that her and her team and their supporters on this site regularly engage in is counter productive.  I think they really need to read what people like Simpson are saying.  Standing around waiting for a corrupt government to implode is a marginal strategy for one election it is disaster for two.  Yes Carole ran a good first campaign and I supported her because she was effective. Then came four years of playing nice with evil corrupt back room bullies.  Who the fuck wants to support a party that can't even fight the most corrupt government in a hundred years. 

Ask Kevin Falcon how you damage a good governments reputation, he was a master at it during the last couple of years of Glen's government. Well funded slick and in your face nasty.  Bumpers sticker about leaving the province etc etc.  In opposition the BC NDP has chosen to reply with lets all share in the sandbox.  It doesn't seem to be getting a lot of traction.  Note the traction the Zalm is getting by calling Gordo out as the lying asshole he is.  Lots of time for Carole and the party to start acting like an opposition to thieves not giving them the room to paint themselves as good government. 

remind remind's picture

It has been a pissing match between the men of the party for far too long, and it is 'the men' who are the top dogs now, who would not take on the leadership back when we were down to 2 seats. And it is 'these men' who want the leadership now.

The male egos at work in the past and currently, are fine examples of systemic patriarchy at work. Which is why I have noted it is sexism at work, on the parts of some.

They are not even recognizing their male hubris and how destructive it is. They have only themselves to blame and not Carole, for the ills of the party.

Centrist

Remind, today's Mustel poll shows the NDP leading the Libs by only 5%. Carole James only has a 33% approval rating but a much larger disapproval rating at 45%. Carole has big negatives.

With all of the crap that the Libs have dished out, do you really believe that 2013 is still a slam dunk with Carole at the helm with these numbers? You do want to win, don't you?

 

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pdf/20101119.pdf

 

remind remind's picture

again, do put a name forward who would win?

 

her negatives are being exaggerated and  fostered by the BCNDP male egos themselves.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Either of the Corrigans would do better as leader and that is just from the centre of the party.

Aristotleded24

remind wrote:
It has been a pissing match between the men of the party for far too long, and it is 'the men' who are the top dogs now, who would not take on the leadership back when we were down to 2 seats. And it is 'these men' who want the leadership now.

The male egos at work in the past and currently, are fine examples of systemic patriarchy at work. Which is why I have noted it is sexism at work, on the parts of some.

They are not even recognizing their male hubris and how destructive it is. They have only themselves to blame and not Carole, for the ills of the party.

1) People have put forward names of women they think could lead the BCNDP.

2) In the whole course of this leadership discussion, I've yet to see you address a single point made by Carole's detractors. Could it be that you have none to make?

remind remind's picture

ya, like they are known throughout the province to take us to win without levelling the playing field any much further for the BC Liars Party....you know people really need to get out of the golden triangle mentality.

NorthReport

Ok, Carole can no longer continue to sweep this revolt under the carpet.

BC NDP caucus whip quits - article in globe today

NorthReport

Poll shows NDP lead over BC Liberals shrinking - article in Globe today

With the complete circus going on within the BC Liberals this is what happens - WTF!!!

NDP lead has gone from 9% to 5%

remind remind's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:
remind wrote:
It has been a pissing match between the men of the party for far too long, and it is 'the men' who are the top dogs now, who would not take on the leadership back when we were down to 2 seats. And it is 'these men' who want the leadership now.

The male egos at work in the past and currently, are fine examples of systemic patriarchy at work. Which is why I have noted it is sexism at work, on the parts of some.

They are not even recognizing their male hubris and how destructive it is. They have only themselves to blame and not Carole, for the ills of the party.

1) People have put forward names of women they think could lead the BCNDP.

Not 1 of those women, perhaps except in a small way Jenny Kwan and Dawn Black, outside of the golden triangle, have any type of recognition that they exist at all. They have less chance of winning than Carole does, nor any other wanna be leader.

Moreover, not 1 has expressed interest in leadership of the BCNDP.

Then we have the old boy's club that wants a male leader. Even though not 1 male has a better chance of winning than Carole does.

Quote:
2) In the whole course of this leadership discussion, I've yet to see you address a single point made by Carole's detractors. Could it be that you have none to make?

They have made points? I have yet to see them make one, or name a name that could win....

___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"

NorthReport

People are keeping their cards close to their vest. Everything comes to he/she who waits. Timing is essential. There will be lots of people vying for the leadership once the race begins.   

Carole could score some points if she lets Bob back into the Caucus before Provincial Council. If not, she will only have herself to blame.  For goodness sake, we need Bob to help us win the next election, and if Carole has to go as leader to bring him back, so be it.

Brian White

Here is a point. Carole James takes opposing positions on the issues based on the date.  James voted no  to pro rep even though she "supports" it.  She is totally out of touch with her own NDP voters in her very own riding on that issue. 

Which brings me to point 2.  She does not listen to her supporters.  (Thats the Custer attitude to leadership).

A key to politics is to listen.  If they vote one way and she acts in the opposing direction (as she did in pro rep) they will say "fuck it"  and this is the voter intensity thing.  She even scolded them. She even said 59% was a failure the first time.  (It got more than she did in her own riding.)

And several NDP  MP's interviened to ask her to support pro rep. Do not forget that.  So she basically threw the national party back into the fptp hole forever.

Also carbon tax.   She supported, then when the bc libs implimented it she opposed it.  And then as soon as the 2009 election was over she supported it again.

I mean  H O L Y  C.H.   Rist    

So no matter, if they put out fido  the cell phone, as leader,  it is more believable than James to me.

Centrist

remind wrote:

her negatives are being exaggerated and  fostered by the BCNDP male egos themselves.

You can't blame it on male egos anymore. Katrine Conroy has resigned as caucus whip and had the support of Jenny Kwan, Lana Popham and Claire Trevena at her press conference. None of these four MLA's would comment when asked if they support Carole.

I do know for a fact that Claire and Lana stopped supporting Carole ever since Bob was kicked out of caucus.

Vansterdam Kid

NorthReport wrote:

Ok, Carole can no longer continue to sweep this revolt under the carpet.

BC NDP caucus whip quits - article in globe today

Here's the link. Jeez, no wonder a noted Gordon Campbell fan like Gary Mason wants Carole James to stay on as leader. The longer she does the more this kind of shit will happen.

The fact that Island MLA's like Trevena, Popham and perhaps Doug Routley won't explicitly stand behind Carole says quite a lot about her and her team's "leadership."

Aristotleded24

Brian White wrote:
A key to politics is to listen.  If they vote one way and she acts in the opposing direction (as she did in pro rep) they will say "fuck it"  and this is the voter intensity thing.  She even scolded them. She even said 59% was a failure the first time.  (It got more than she did in her own riding.)

And several NDP  MP's interviened to ask her to support pro rep. Do not forget that.  So she basically threw the national party back into the fptp hole forever.

And that plays into the hands of NDP detractors, who claim that the NDP prefers whichever voting system gives it the most power. That means FPTP in BC, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia, while pro-rep federally and the other provinces.

NorthReport

The BC NDP cannot afford to have a Leader that does not command the respect of, and that is not able to control, the Caucus.

This is bullshit.

First Bob Simpson, a competent former forestry executive

Then Norm McDonald, the Caucus Chair

And today Conroy, the party Whip

We're bleeding bad here folks, at a time when we should be celebrating the demise of the BC Liberals.

Please, we will have had 12 fucking years of right-wing, mean-spirited greedy pigs at the public trough in BC, while homeless working people here sleep on the streets in winter because they are paid a minimum wage of $6, and can't afford the rent, let alone purchase accommodation. Enough is enough.

Roscoe

remind wrote:

It has been a pissing match between the men of the party for far too long, and it is 'the men' who are the top dogs now, who would not take on the leadership back when we were down to 2 seats. And it is 'these men' who want the leadership now.

The male egos at work in the past and currently, are fine examples of systemic patriarchy at work. Which is why I have noted it is sexism at work, on the parts of some.

They are not even recognizing their male hubris and how destructive it is. They have only themselves to blame and not Carole, for the ills of the party.

 

Parachuting Moe Sihota into the party executive, with all his baggage ( and secret Union-paid stipend) won't endear the NDP to the public. Since women are a significant portion of the party, why can't they wrestle control away from the men?

NorthReport

Simple.

Because it is not an 'us vs 'them' situation.

ghoris

Seems to me that Carole James has supporters and detractors of both genders. Can't we just assess her performance on the merits? I, for one, am getting pretty tired of this 'everyone who criticizes Carole James is a sexist' line of argument. (ETA: Which has now apparently been expanded to include 'racist' too. See post #53.)

NorthReport

Thanks for those reasonable words ghoris.

 

This is a manipulative tactic by Carole James.

I doubt very mjuch that the Provincial Council Representatives have any mandate from their constituency executives for this kind of last minute vote. On this basis alone, I would give serious consideration to voting for a leadership contest.

And here's a little BC NDP  - Carole James history

Something that no one appears to have picked up on yet.

Who originally nominated Carole James when she 1st ran for the leadership?

 

B.C.’s NDP leader puts her job on the line

The larger show will revolve around Ms. James’s leadership. On Friday afternoon, Kootenay West MLA Katrine Conroy set the stage for the showdown, calling a news conference to announce she has quit as caucus whip.

Flanked by three other NDP MLAs, Ms. Conroy’s news conference was bizarre even by the standards of B.C. politics: The most telling revelations were non-answers. She refused to say if she is quitting over Ms. James’s leadership. NDP MLA Jenny Kwan, a senior and influential member of the party, stood by Ms. Conroy and refused, repeatedly, to say if she still supports Ms. James as leader.

What was clearer, however, is that Ms. James’s decision to fire Bob Simpson from the caucus six weeks ago for questioning her leadership has created a significant breach in the party. An hour after Ms. Conroy’s meeting with reporters, Ms. James was finally compelled to acknowledge that there are a number of MLAs in her 33-member caucus who want a new leader.

“The people of British Columbia are not well-served by this behaviour,” Ms. James said. “I believe it is selfish.”

Mr. Simpson, in an interview, said Ms. James has simply failed to gain any purchase from the B.C. Liberals’ troubles. “Carole James has tried to characterize this as just a few complainers, that’s a distortion of reality.”

The BC NDP’s provincial council meets in Victoria on the weekend – a body made up of MLAs, the party executive and delegates from each of the party’s 85 constituency associations – and Ms. James indicated she will quit if she doesn’t get strong support.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bcs-ndp-le...

 

NorthReport

 

B.C. NDP female MLAs demolish Carole James-Gary Mason spin campaign

Earlier this week, the Globe and Mail's Gary Mason wrote a fairly despicable column about the B.C. NDP.

Rather than recognizing that people within the NDP are deeply concerned about the party losing the next election, Mason suggested that everything was going just fine with Carole James at the helm.

He suggested that there was a "faint odour of sexism" in the opposition to James. "For a party that likes to flaunt its feminist credentials, it’s all really quite unseemly," Mason wrote.

Today, four female B.C. NDP MLAs sent a very powerful signal that the internal opposition to James is anything but sexist.

The party's second-highest ranking female caucus member, Katrine Conroy, quit as the party whip on the eve of the NDP provincial council meeting in Victoria.

At her news conference, she was accompanied by NDP MLAs Jenny Kwan, Lana Popham, and Claire Trevena.

They didn't say anything disparaging about James because they've seen what's happened to others who've questioned the party's direction under her leadership.

MLA Bob Simpson was thrown out without even a caucus meeting. Prior to the last election, Mabel Elmore, who represents Vancouver-Kensington, was publicly humiliated for uttering the word "Zionist". And Michael Sather was kicked out of caucus for questioning the loss of farmland in the Tsawwassen treaty.

James is facing an internal revolt not only because of these authoritarian tendencies. It's also because she has demonstrated a lack of imagination on the policy front and not stood up for B.C.'s poorest residents.

This message has not percolated through to the mainstream media yet. This was despite the devastating final speech in the legislature in 2009 by then-MLA David Chudnovsky about the centralization of power in the premier's office.

Chudnovsky did not seek reelection even though it cost him an MLA pension. It was another signal that all was not well within the B.C. NDP

Kwan, who represents Vancouver-Mount Pleasant, has consistently promoted policies to benefit those suffering from extreme poverty, addiction, and homelessness. She has received very little support from her leader, who has been silent on the need for more supervised-injection sites across the Lower Mainland.

Popham, the rookie NDP MLA for Saanich South, has been an articulate proponent of protecting farmland and promoting food security. She also has received very little public help from the leader on this issue.

Trevena, NDP MLA for North Island, has taken a huge political risk by standing up to the fish-farming industry on northern Vancouver Island. James has done little publicly to help her in these efforts.

James's defenders and their friends in the media, including Mason, can try to dress this up as a sexist takeout of the leader. The reality is very different, as today's news conference clearly demonstrated.

 

http://www.straight.com/article-360084/vancouver/bc-ndp-female-mlas-demo...

melovesproles

The fact that the James faction is responding by accusing all those in the NDP who want a leadership review as being 'sexist' and 'selfish' says a lot about the type of politics they practice.  It was that kind of divisiveness and disregard for core supporters that lost the NDP the election last time out. 

NorthReport

Bob Simpson is proving to have far more support than James counted on. Carole needs to admit her mistake, and bring him back into the Caucus lickety-split, otherwise this infighting will continue to fester until she steps down as leader.

NDP whip's resignation exposes cracks in opposition

 

 

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/BC-Politics/2010/11/19/OppositionCracks/

GingerGoodone

melovesproles wrote:

The fact that the James faction is responding by accusing all those in the NDP who want a leadership review as being 'sexist' and 'selfish' says a lot about the type of politics they practice.  It was that kind of divisiveness and disregard for core supporters that lost the NDP the election last time out. 

 

Gender issues have never had anything to do with it.  The majority of active BC Gingers just happen to be women.   Women who just happen to be more concerned about all the working class women who have suffered most under neo-conservatism, than all the good old boys in the Chamber of Commerce who have benefitted from it most.

 

This is from a source not exactly known for rocking the NDP old boy establishment: 

 

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2010/11/katrine-conroy-quits-as-bc-ndp-caucus.html

 

(I thought David Schreck's response was rather amusing though, given his own disproportionate responsibility for the party's present malaise)

GingerGoodone

I should also say I'm heartened by most of the comments here, but I will add that a leadership "review", as the constitution use to call for regularly (until it was altered by...you know who) isn't quite the same as a leadership convention.  A leadership convention would require them to impliment a One Member-One Vote.  A mere review would not.   That is what they are really afraid of, actual democracy breaking out.    

GingerGoodone

This coming from David Schreck: (and this coming from me)

 

"BC politics need to change; we are all in the same lifeboat. (sure we are)  Just because James talks to the business community, doesn't mean that she would break union contracts or weaken the labour code. (but it will mean unprotected labour and the unemployed will be screwed again)  We need to get away from the idea of guilt by association. The BC business community deserves to be "at the table" just as much as the organizations and people that the Campbell government has shunned for ten years.

(oh yes, and are we now supposed to believe that they will allow others an equal seat at the lunch table?)

We need to work together to create the wealth that is necessary to pay for social programs. (classic neo-con line -followed closely by classic neo-con downsizing if accepted)  Some leaders of BC business associations have demonstrated that they will support Liberal deficits and criticize NDP deficits; they will go further and support virtually anything the anti-NDP forces do even though they may gag on it. James recognizes they don't speak for all their members and an NDP government must work with all elements of BC society, even if their leaders may be hypocrites. She should be congratulated for that.

(yes, and I'm sure we would all be rewarded by those few hypocrites, unlike every other time the NDP backed into office.  But thanks for implying it's actually the James critics who are in cahoots with those few bad apples)

The NDP's finances and membership are a problem just as they are for the BC Liberals. With a BC Liberal leadership vote set for February 26th, we'll see financial disclosure statements filed with Elections BC by early June which will show just how hard done by the Liberals are. The fighting within the NDP can't possibly help with membership recruitment and fundraising drives. Those who want to push back need to open their cheque books or go online and make a donation.

(and of course the old 'shut your mouths and open your wallets' mantra; sorry but the reverse seems to be working better now thanks)

I can't remember a time in my 40 years of activism in the NDP when the party had such an enormous opportunity and pushed it away with such incredible internal bickering. The people who support the NDP and expect it to champion their issues deserve better. Private health care, overcrowded classrooms, homelessness, poverty, abused children, environmental degradation and economic chaos are a few of the issues that could be addressed by a stable NDP government.

(but won't be as long as the NDP also subscribes to the same neo-conservative economics that all the other mainstream parties now do. But hey, thanks for evoking the poor and the homeless again, it sounds more convincing than ever coming from a party that now refuses to even consider raising income taxes or running deficits)

Campbell was described by Bennett as foul-mouthed and abusive. We don't need another alpha-male; it's time for a change! "

(this from the oldest of alpha NDP males)

Robertalt

That's easy, Rick Perry. All of the candidates have significant flaws. Werner can't win, no one has heard of him. Bell is the political equivalent of a democratic robot. Bell has the personality of a dish rag. Strayhorn, because of her switching to an independent status...

BodyQuick

Roscoe

NorthReport wrote:

Never mind all the other mumbo-jumbo that is being spewed about. This is the question, and it is the only question about James' Leadership.

Can Carole James win the Next Election?

This is the question that has haunted the party ever since she was first elected. My cynical answer to this question has not changed during her leadership.

No.

Carol won the leadership because none of the NDP brain trust wanted to do the heavy lifting of rebuilding the party from annihilation. The usual suspects didn't want either the hard work or the threat to their position/credibility that the leadership at this time would entail.

The strategy was and still is to allow Carol to do all the heavy lifting with lukewarm, distant support from the party apparatchiks. Carol was free to spend literally years bussing about the province on the coffee klatch and rubbber chicken circuit rebuilding the party one disgruntled member at a time while the party hierarchy plotted the appropriate moment to sink the knife in her back and steal the leadership and a return to power.

Carol is and always was the sacrificial lamb on the altar of NDP expediency. She was never meant to win anything. Moe Sihota's ascendancy in the backroom confirms the sacrificial ceremony is near at hand.

Roscoe

Pogo wrote:

Unfortunately things look bad for James.  She has had 1/2  a decade to build a loyal team and she hasn't failed.  If she is forced to resign the blame is mostly hers.

I most strenuously disagree, Pogo.  If Jim Sinclair and his union cabal had provided Carol with the resources they evidently lavish on Moe Sihota as party president rather than setting her up to fail (at the appropriate moment, of course), the BC NDP would be poised to win.

Instead, we have the same backroom plotters conniving a return to power for.....themselves. BC needs politicians like Carol, not self-servers like Moe and Jim et al.

NorthReport

What are the strikes against Moe?

 

Why couldn't he run for leader and then premier?

Roscoe

GingerGoodone wrote:

This coming from David Schreck: (and this coming from me)

 

"BC politics need to change; we are all in the same lifeboat. (sure we are)  Just because James talks to the business community, doesn't mean that she would break union contracts or weaken the labour code. (but it will mean unprotected labour and the unemployed will be screwed again)  We need to get away from the idea of guilt by association. The BC business community deserves to be "at the table" just as much as the organizations and people that the Campbell government has shunned for ten years.

(oh yes, and are we now supposed to believe that they will allow others an equal seat at the lunch table?)

We need to work together to create the wealth that is necessary to pay for social programs. (classic neo-con line -followed closely by classic neo-con downsizing if accepted)  Some leaders of BC business associations have demonstrated that they will support Liberal deficits and criticize NDP deficits; they will go further and support virtually anything the anti-NDP forces do even though they may gag on it. James recognizes they don't speak for all their members and an NDP government must work with all elements of BC society, even if their leaders may be hypocrites. She should be congratulated for that.

(yes, and I'm sure we would all be rewarded by those few hypocrites, unlike every other time the NDP backed into office.  But thanks for implying it's actually the James critics who are in cahoots with those few bad apples)

The NDP's finances and membership are a problem just as they are for the BC Liberals. With a BC Liberal leadership vote set for February 26th, we'll see financial disclosure statements filed with Elections BC by early June which will show just how hard done by the Liberals are. The fighting within the NDP can't possibly help with membership recruitment and fundraising drives. Those who want to push back need to open their cheque books or go online and make a donation.

(and of course the old 'shut your mouths and open your wallets' mantra; sorry but the reverse seems to be working better now thanks)

I can't remember a time in my 40 years of activism in the NDP when the party had such an enormous opportunity and pushed it away with such incredible internal bickering. The people who support the NDP and expect it to champion their issues deserve better. Private health care, overcrowded classrooms, homelessness, poverty, abused children, environmental degradation and economic chaos are a few of the issues that could be addressed by a stable NDP government.

(but won't be as long as the NDP also subscribes to the same neo-conservative economics that all the other mainstream parties now do. But hey, thanks for evoking the poor and the homeless again, it sounds more convincing than ever coming from a party that now refuses to even consider raising income taxes or running deficits)

Campbell was described by Bennett as foul-mouthed and abusive. We don't need another alpha-male; it's time for a change! "

(this from the oldest of alpha NDP males)

Very true. Don't let the party regress. BC needs change, not a return to the adversarial politics that benefit the same few over the rest of the province.

Roscoe

NorthReport wrote:

What are the strikes against Moe?

 

Why couldn't he run for leader and then premier?

Why doesn't he? Why doesn't Moe Sihota stand and be counted on his merits in public? Could it be that Moe will only accept a coronation, not a struggle that he may lose? The fact that Moe negotiated a substantial stipend from the unions for a party presidency that others undertook voluntarily speaks volumes about Moe.

Moe is only concerned for Moe and the fact that he prefers to stay in the background rather than publicly state his position merely confirms that Carol's coupe de grace is near.

Brian White

From Wikipedia, you can get strikes against Moe

"He served in several cabinet posts under the New Democratic governments of Mike Harcourt, Glen Clark and Ujjal Dosanjh, but was forced to resign from cabinet several times due to scandal.

In 1998, he resigned for making a phone call to the Motor Carrier Commission, a quasi-judicial body, on behalf of a friend who was seeking a limousine license."

I only ever spoke to Moe once.  He seems a nice enough guy.  But, if you rebuild the NDP, you need a brand spanking new image.  Not a mirror  image of BC Lib scandal! 

Anyway, I though he had gone into real estate in a big way a few years back. Did that not work out?  I remember something he was building burnt down.  But that raises eyebrows too.

So the slogan  (sorry Moe) is "Moe has to go". The past is the past and I think it is too ugly to become the future.

Someone with no baggage is needed. And no puppet masters in the background either.

 

 

Centrist

NorthReport wrote:

What are the strikes against Moe?

 

Why couldn't he run for leader and then premier?

Moe is political poison for the NDP. He shouldn't even be Party prez as, with his negatives, the Libs will attack the NDP as the "Moe Sihota Party" during the next election. If he ever became party leader, the NDP will sink to 3rd place in polling. Guaranteed.

Pogo Pogo's picture

I supported Carol James when she ran for the leadership.  A key issue in the campaign was changing the way we did politics.  James record as a school trustee backed up her promise to bring a more civilized approach to politics.

I think that BC would be better served if we had a more civilized political climate and if Carol James was elected it would go a long ways to improving things.  If she is forced to quit it will be a long time before we get a political leader willing to push for change in our political culture.

Unfortunately things look bad for James.  She has had 1/2  a decade to build a loyal team and she has failed.  If she is forced to resign the blame is mostly hers.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think that the factions are the Moe, Bruce Mike show and there minions, Carole and some people around her [but they have no real power at the central office because that is in the control of the cabal]. Then there are the empathetic members of the party who are tired of having both Carole and the cabal drone on endlessly on how the BC NDP is business friendly.  For MLA's who care about the starving homeless people in their ridings and the precarious financial nature of the majority of their supporters in this nasty economy this is not what they are in politics for.  they want to do something not play nice with Howe street.  

Once Carole steps down then the real fight begins for the heart and soul of the party.

mybabble

Can Carol James win the next election?  I felt she stood a really good chance but unless you have a crystal ball or are very intuitive it is all just guess work especially with an election two years away?

Can James be trusted?  Will she make a good leader?  Does she have the support of her caucus? Will there be an early election?

Does she spit in your face and turn into a real bully when James dosen't get her own way?

Will she sell out to corporations? Or has James already? I doubt it very much.

I hear comments about the NDP president being the one behind the controversay maybe Moe should be the one to go?

James is meeting with party members today to come to some kind of consensus and all this talk about winning the big one as did the Liberals and look at the winners voters are today.

Why did Simpson leave the Liberals and did he ever comment publicly on Campbell about the premier when he was a Liberal MLA because he sure gave him plenty to talk about especially since he was mistaken and he is really an NDP who knows how to lead the party better than Carol James.  Do you think he wants her job? 

What is in the future for British Colombians?  Your markets are bear,dollar is at parity, consumers in debt way over their heads, prices continue to rise, homes are 50% more than the average American home so something has to give.  Harper is moving toward social reform and the provinces are going to have to get along on their own as the price of oil continues to drive the dollar up.  "Stagflation"

 

mybabble

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think that the factions are the Moe, Bruce Mike show and there minions, Carole and some people around her [but they have no real power at the central office because that is in the control of the cabal]. Then there are the empathetic members of the party who are tired of having both Carole and the cabal drone on endlessly on how the BC NDP is business friendly.  For MLA's who care about the starving homeless people in their riding's and the precarious financial nature of the majority of their supporters in this nasty economy this is not what they are in politics for.  they want to do something not play nice with Howe street.  

Once Carole steps down then the real fight begins for the heart and soul of the party.

Do you think Carol is going to step down?  It is possible and your right it is going to take someone who cares about the issues because things are about to get real tough as homelessness escalates across the country and is going to need the Feds on board.  It is not going to happen any time soon especially with Harper who has helped make homelessness a household name as Canada gets right into the double dip recession.  The Federal government wants to stop transfer payments as Oil continues to drive up the dollar and provinces will need to make some drastic changes to social programs.  I could be wrong and it would make me happy if I was but everything is indicating things are not going to get better but are about to get a whole lot worst.

 

NorthReport

So what's happening at Provincial Council? anyone available to give us an update?

NorthReport

This was a bs vote. No constituencies were ever consulted about this vote, so even though their provincial council delegates were there and perhaps voted, they had no mandate from the people they were representing.

I really hate this kind of manipulative politics.  Just more sleazy politics in BC backed by the right-wing groups such as the globe and mail who would like nothing better than to have Carole James to face when the Liberals pick their new leader.

 

Embattled B.C. NDP leader wins confidence of party

But there is a larger problem looming: At least 13 members of her caucus of 34 eschewed the show of support, and many sat on their hands while Ms. James earned three standing ovations during her 18-minute speech.

The MLAs do not have voting status so they could not have to take a stand on Ms. James’ leadership during the vote, but Ms. James will still face a strongly divided caucus.

The scarf-less MLAs include senior NDP MLAs such as Leonard Krog, Jenny Kwan, and two caucus executive members who have quit their posts in recent weeks after clashing with Ms. James.

Ms. James took over as party leader seven years ago, after the B.C. NDP had been almost decimated in the 2001 provincial election.

Although she has rebuilt the party with her moderate, centrist platform, she has faced internal grumbling since last year’s election, when the party was again shut out by voters.

That internal dissent erupted into the open six weeks ago when Ms. James fired MLA Bob Simpson from caucus for questioning her leadership.

Until Friday, Ms. James played down the rebellion, but that ended when Katrine Conroy, flanked by three other MLAs, called a news conference to announce she is quitting as the party whip, saying she could no longer maintain unity in caucus.

 

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/embattled-...

Pogo Pogo's picture

Roscoe wrote:

Pogo wrote:

Unfortunately things look bad for James.  She has had 1/2  a decade to build a loyal team and she hasn't failed.  If she is forced to resign the blame is mostly hers.

I most strenuously disagree, Pogo.  If Jim Sinclair and his union cabal had provided Carol with the resources they evidently lavish on Moe Sihota as party president rather than setting her up to fail (at the appropriate moment, of course), the BC NDP would be poised to win.

Instead, we have the same backroom plotters conniving a return to power for.....themselves. BC needs politicians like Carol, not self-servers like Moe and Jim et al.

There are always going to be backroom connivers.  When the NDP is in power it is going to be up against even more powerful backroom connivers.  I want leadership that can affect change, not a sob story about how the other side isn't playing fair.

NorthReport

Exactly Pogo.

Roscoe

Pogo wrote:

Roscoe wrote:

Pogo wrote:

Unfortunately things look bad for James.  She has had 1/2  a decade to build a loyal team and she hasn't failed.  If she is forced to resign the blame is mostly hers.

I most strenuously disagree, Pogo.  If Jim Sinclair and his union cabal had provided Carol with the resources they evidently lavish on Moe Sihota as party president rather than setting her up to fail (at the appropriate moment, of course), the BC NDP would be poised to win.

Instead, we have the same backroom plotters conniving a return to power for.....themselves. BC needs politicians like Carol, not self-servers like Moe and Jim et al.

There are always going to be backroom connivers.  When the NDP is in power it is going to be up against even more powerful backroom connivers.  I want leadership that can affect change, not a sob story about how the other side isn't playing fair.

Ah! You don't like 'sob stories'. The problem with your desires, Pogo, is that "the other side" isn't supposed to be "the other side".  I also want leadership that can affect change  - the issue with the party connivers and malcontents is that they are not interested in "change" as much as they are interested in "change" that benefits themselves.

Carol is effecting "change" by reaching out to stakeholders rather than attempting to force-feed party dogma to the voter and many hard core ideologues are threatened by that. Are you one?

Tell us more about the "change" you wish to see, Pogo. Does your definition of change include a hard left turn or does it contemplate a conversation with other stakeholders leading toward a better society?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

"stakeholders" is a meaningless term. 

GingerGoodone

The idea of us all getting along or "working together" is just what the establishment programs when it feels power might slip from its grasp even momentarily.   When they feel secure again they pat us on the head and go right back to ruthless class warfare.  Or they go totally fascist like they are in the States.  Luckily for them our present oh-so polite middleclass have backed them in a way probably not seen since the Victorian era.  And the working class, such as it still exists, is more passive than at anytime since.  Neither is really aware of it anymore, which makes their power all the more secure. 

James and Moe are on the exact same page, even if there may be some personal rivalries between them. That's still allowed, as it helps maintain the illusion we still live in some kind of liberal democracy. 

The most important thing is that we must never again have a choice outside those who actively destroy whatever social contract is left, and those who politely consolidate the destruction by refusing to do anything to reverse it.  "Staying the course" is the official buzzword for it. 

Stockholm

gee from some of the comments here - you might actually think that the people who want to replace carole James are on the left of the party - but in fact her biggest critics seem to be people who want the party to move even more to the right and be even friendlier to business - like ex-Liberal Bob Simpson.

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