Who Replaces Carole James?

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Brian White
Who Replaces Carole James?

123 wheeee leadership race!

havana

Stockholm wrote:

 To win an election in BC and get 43 seats in the legislature - a party has to do soething that you obviously find distasteful - find a way to win middle class swing ridings like Oak Bay-Gordon Head, Saanich North, Maple Ridge-Mission, Burquitlam etc...

....or try and win the mixed demographic rural ridings where MLAs like Doug Routely, Katrine Conroy, Harry Lali, Lana Popham, Leonard Krog, Claire Trevena, Norm MacDonald, Garry Coons, and Nicholas Simons come from. Some of these ridings are safe, some are not.

The economic issues play out differently when the survival of your community is in play.

Brian White

James is now the major factor creating instability in the provincial NDP

No normal political leader would continue with 30% and more of her caucus openly disgusted with her leadership style and lack of substance.

So how do we get past the ear muffs so that she hears that it is long past the time to go?

She has no need to do a Gordon Campbell impersonation at this time.

She has clearly lost the respect and  confidence of a huge percentage of her mla's.

Just go Carole while you still have a shred of legacy left.

Anyways, lets figure out a replacement while we wait for her brain freeze to go.

About 30 suitable people and one position up for grabs.

Who would be a good compromise candidate?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Burquitlam? 

The two Burnaby ridings were winnable.  I live here and work on the ground in federal campaigns.  It is clear you have no understanding of the demographics of the ridings.  Burnaby has a major poverty problem.  The largest work category is retail.  You know the young people who are getting screwed over at every turn by their bosses.  They might be interested in knowing that the NDP is actually going to stand up to Howe street and reintroduce actual Employment Standards with officers to enforce them.  They didn't vote and if the party had increased that demographics vote they might have cruised to victory.  The other thing that the BC NDP doesn't get is that young adults can influence their conservative immigrant parents if they are enthused and believe in the policies being proposed.  

In one of the Burnaby loses the party ran a BCGEU bureaucrat as a social activist. Like Carole she was really successful at the party level easily winning the nomination with the full open backing of the party hierarchy. But she had no fucking foot soldiers because stacking a nomination meeting is easy but motivating and attracting volunteers especially that crucial youth energy is not something most union bureaucrats are good at.  Harry Bloy is still our MLA.

The reason why people want Carole gone is IMO because she is not touching base with the people.  She hasn't caught on and frankly I have no more time for her and her allies clinging to the leadership when we need real change now to ensure we don't once more grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. This is not ideological it is politics.  Many, many people inside and outside of the party don't believe Carole can deliver a victory and winning the next election is the only rational given for her continued leadership. 

Stockholm

kropotkin1951 wrote:

In one of the Burnaby loses the party ran a BCGEU bureaucrat as a social activist. Like Carole she was really successful at the party level easily winning the nomination with the full open backing of the party hierarchy. But she had no fucking foot soldiers because stacking a nomination meeting is easy but motivating and attracting volunteers especially that crucial youth energy is not something most union bureaucrats are good at.  Harry Bloy is still our MLA.

Well then i guess that if there was all this CRUCIAL YOUTH ENERGY out there - someone forgot to tell them to find a youthful energetic candidate to run for the nomination. If they had - I assume that a cavalcade of energetic young people could have shown up and voted for him or her and then if we believe your account - that person would have sailed to victory. It should be a lot easier to win a nomination meeting that was probably attended by less than 100 people than to win in a general election when you have 10,000 people to try to win over.

NorthReport

If he wasn't before, popular Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson is now going to be definitely looking at the BC NDP leadership issue with renewed interest.

Vansterdam Kid

Carole James wrote:
"We will now move forward and show British Columbians that we're ready to govern and that we can earn their trust."

And that's exactly the problem. She overreacts to a pithy comment from an MLA to try to "look tough" and yet, let's the situation run out of control and she still hasn't commented on exactly what it is other than play female Gordon Campbell to move forward and show British Columbians that the NDP is ready to govern and that they can earn our trust. Honestly, I don't think she'd make a good premier, seeing as she can't even handle her own caucus or internal criticism. If she thinks we're tough, how is she going to deal with the NDP's union backers who will want far more than they're going to be given? How is she going to deal with her corporate critics who try to lie to British Columbians about her and her party as if they're the devil incarnate? If she actually manges to be tough, and have some substances in relation to these critics, I'll be impressed. But the simple fact of the matter is that she's disrespectful to her internal critics which she confuses with toughness and principle, while surrendering to her external critics, which she confuses with consensus building and pragmatism.

But I'm willing to be generous and give her the time of day, as long as she actually moves on too, seeing as we won't even have a leadership review until late 2011. So other than having your true believers write articles telling people to fall into line as if they're children, what is actually in it for me to actually to do that? Is it because the Liberals are bad? That's nice, it might get you votes. But it sure as fuck won't get much money or time from potential supporters. Both of these things are precious and won't be wasted on a bunch of vapid authoritarians with delusions of grandeur who are 'less bad' than the other guys and gals. I mean jeez, what are we supposed to do when supporting a political party, check our brains at the door and get a lobotomy?

Centrist

NorthReport wrote:

If he wasn't before, popular Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson is now going to be definitely looking at the BC NDP leadership issue with renewed interest.

NR, the latest ARS poll showed that only 33% think that Gregor deserves to be re-elected. And Gregor has a much higher negative approval rating.

If granola eating City of Vancouverites are turned off by Gregor's bike lanes, neighbourhood vegetable gardens, and backyard chicken coops, do you really think that red-meat eating suburbanites and rural folk will buy into same? Laughing

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

VanKid just listen to Stock  No matter what, the people running the party are always right and must be followed.  Anyone who does not toe the current party line [whatever that may be since no one knows out here] will be dealt with as a traitor to all that is just and true. 

Yup lets run a lack lustre two time loser next election whose main political asset is consensus building and main claim to fame is a caucus revolt involving a third of the elected MLA's. 

It is actually pathetic to see her trying to hang on to a job that the big boys in the back room are going to take away from her anyways. I will go out on a limb and boldly predict that Carole James will not lead the BC NDP into the next election unless the Liberals get a dead cat bounce and it is called before the leadership review.  

Stockholm

If that happens, I hope that the Carol James-haters will realize that its more important to defeat the BC Liberals than to see Carol James lose again just so you can jump up and down with barely concealed glee shrieking "I told you so, i told you so!"

Brian White

Bluddy trolls.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Stockholm wrote:

If that happens, I hope that the Carol James-haters will realize that its more important to defeat the BC Liberals than to see Carol James lose again just so you can jump up and down with barely concealed glee shrieking "I told you so, i told you so!"

Stockholm that is really bad even by your standards.  Do you buy that self righteousness by the gallon?  Fuck off you asshole from Ontario.  Yes that is  a personal attack because claiming that progressive people will jump up an down with glee if the right wins again is obnoxious and far more personal than a swear word.  Mind you it is typical of the NDP in this last decade as the liberals take over the various parties and try to enforce central control like a real liberal party.

Aristotleded24

Stockholm wrote:
If that happens, I hope that the Carol James-haters will realize that its more important to defeat the BC Liberals than to see Carol James lose again just so you can jump up and down with barely concealed glee shrieking "I told you so, i told you so!"

To me, it sounds like the Carol James-haters have clearly demonstrated that she cannot defeat the BC Liberals.

Stockholm

You are doing a good job of making this into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The fact is that whether you like it or not - by far the likeliest prospect is that Carol James will lead the NDP in the next election - unless the next Liberal leader decides to hold out until 2013 and the anti-Jacobian (clever aren't I?) forces manage to knock her off at the convention in Nov. 2011. If that happens i will happily support whoever gets picked in her place.

But what if the BC Liberals pick a new leader in February and that person calls a snap election and Carol James is still leader of the NDP?? I just hope that the anti-Jacobians are prepared for that eventuality and would be prepared to bury the hatchet, grudgingly declare their support for her and fight like hell to win the election. But from the vituperative comments people keep making, I can't help but get the impression that some people here would rather lose to the BC Liberals for the fourth time than win under carol James. I hope I'm wrong.

Stockholm

Centrist wrote:

 

NR, the latest ARS poll showed that only 33% think that Gregor deserves to be re-elected. And Gregor has a much higher negative approval rating.

If granola eating City of Vancouverites are turned off by Gregor's bike lanes, neighbourhood vegetable gardens, and backyard chicken coops, do you really think that red-meat eating suburbanites and rural folk will buy into same? Laughing

OK, so much for that idea, who is next on the list of "miracle workers" and "superstars" who is everything that Carol James is not? Let's start going down the list of possible repalcements and we'll see whether they would be any better.

Brian White

Please excuse kroputkin, he got baited pretty badly

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

If that happens, I hope that the Carol James-haters will realize that its more important to defeat the BC Liberals than to see Carol James lose again just so you can jump up and down with barely concealed glee shrieking "I told you so, i told you so!"

Stockholm that is really bad even by your standards.  Do you buy that self righteousness by the gallon?  Fuck off you asshole from Ontario.  Yes that is  a personal attack because claiming that progressive people will jump up an down with glee if the right wins again is obnoxious and far more personal than a swear word.  Mind you it is typical of the NDP in this last decade as the liberals take over the various parties and try to enforce central control like a real liberal party.

Centrist

 

Current online poll from Vancouver's Georgia Straight newspaper:

"Who should be leader of the B.C. NDP?"

1. Carole James: 17%

2. Dawn Black: 2%

3. Derek Corrigan: 4%

4. Mike Farnworth: 9%

5. Guy Gentner: 1%

6. John Horgan: 3%

7. Peter Julian: 2%

8. Leonard Krog: 3%

9. Jenny Kwan: 15%

10. Gregor Robertson: 17%

11. Bill Tieleman: 4%

12. Glen Clark: 5%

13. Jim Sinclair: 2%

14. Adrian Dix: 6%

15. Ken Georgetti: 1%

16. None of the above: 10%"

http://www.straight.com/poll/who-should-be-leader-bc-ndp

 

On that list, John Horgan is my first choice who has also received accolades from astute political bloggers across the political spectrum.

My only other preference from that list is Peter Julian.

The reason behind these choices? Likable, intelligent, can see the "bigger picture" and are able to capture the centre voter. From the moderate Doer/Dexter mold.

 

Fidel

Premier Carole James, BC's first democratically elected female premier. Sounds good to me. Remember Rita Johnson.

babbler 8

With this much opposition within her caucus I'm afraid Carole is done. Truth is the yellow scarves only made matters worse because not only did they rub people the wrong way but they identified just how much of the caucus doesn't support her.

Vansterdam Kid

kropotkin1951 wrote:
VanKid just listen to Stock  No matter what, the people running the party are always right and must be followed.  Anyone who does not toe the current party line [whatever that may be since no one knows out here] will be dealt with as a traitor to all that is just and true.

It seems so according to our wise sage from the other side of the country.

Stockholm wrote:

You are doing a good job of making this into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The fact is that whether you like it or not - by far the likeliest prospect is that Carol James will lead the NDP in the next election - unless the next Liberal leader decides to hold out until 2013 and the anti-Jacobian (clever aren't I?) forces manage to knock her off at the convention in Nov. 2011. If that happens i will happily support whoever gets picked in her place.

But what if the BC Liberals pick a new leader in February and that person calls a snap election and Carol James is still leader of the NDP?? I just hope that the anti-Jacobians are prepared for that eventuality and would be prepared to bury the hatchet, grudgingly declare their support for her and fight like hell to win the election. But from the vituperative comments people keep making, I can't help but get the impression that some people here would rather lose to the BC Liberals for the fourth time than win under carol James. I hope I'm wrong.

It appears I have my answer to the question about checking our brains at the door. It's not so much about whether or not members or base supporters will vote NDP, although chances are with James as leader people will continue to be underwhelmed. It's a simple fact of reality that when someone doesn't like someone they won't work harder for that person, even if they allegedly have shared goals. Of course in this case we don't even know what the NDP's shared goals are anymore so we don't even have that to fall back on. Apparently asking what the NDP's policy goals are now is tantamount to supporting the Liberal Party of British Columbia!

By the way, the attitude that it's somehow the people who won't check their brains at the door's fault the NDP is in such dissaray is rather warped. Excuse me but the leader sets the tone. If the leader would listen to some of the criticisms regarding a lack of policy substance and questions as to why she's a tougher leader towards dissenting New Democrats than towards this government then perhaps these issue wouldn't have exploded like they did. Shoot the messangers all you want but the message is being sent by the general British Columbian public. We don't want conciliatory mush when it comes to dealing with this government, we want someone who is as ticked off as we are.

NorthReport

James fails to offer visionary leadership

 

It's becoming clearer by the day that the NDP in B.C. is in at least as much trouble as the recall-ravaged Liberals. NDP leader Carole James's declaration of an end to infighting within her party rings as hollow as that of the former Iraqi information minister who famously declared on TV in 2003 there were no U.S. tanks in Baghdad -- when they could clearly be seen in the background.

James may have drawn "a line in the sand" when she beat back a challenge to her leadership at the NDP provincial council meeting over the weekend. But, with continued internal opposition to her leadership, the sands of time may be running out for her -- as they already have for Gordon Campbell. Indeed, some observers are thinking the unthinkable, namely that the NDP could blow the best chance it's had in years to seize power.

And if that were to happen, the party could well find itself in the political wilderness for yet another decade.

The problem isn't that James is a bad politician. She is clearly a capable one. It's just that, so far, she has failed to capitalize on the collapse of trust in Campbell and company by providing a compelling alternative.

That may be because of the overly cautious and often uninspiring way she delivers her message. Or it may be the message itself has grown stale.

We all know what James is against, but we want to know what she is for. We want to see her vision for a province that is clearly suffering from a colossal failure of leadership.

 http://www.theprovince.com/James+fails+offer+visionary+leadership/386994...

NorthReport

NDP infighting wounding party

 

New Democratic Party Leader Carole James has no reason to feel satisfied this week, even though her party's governing council has given her a resounding show of support.

The council voted 84 per cent against a motion to schedule a leadership convention next year.

But unlike the council, the New Democratic Party caucus is anything but united. James says her party's infighting is over; that is wishful thinking.

At the party's weekend meeting, someone had the bad idea of handing out yellow scarves to James's supporters as they arrived. The move was divisive. It challenged those attending to show public support for the leader -- and made it obvious that one-third of the caucus did not don the scarves and does not support James. It has also led to accusations the scarves were being used for in-your-face -- literally -- taunting of non-believers.

 

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/infighting+wounding+party/3870202/stor...

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The yellow scarves is symbolic of the rot in the BC NDP.  You can't have a leader whose stick is getting along with everyone and then do an overt loyalty test in front of the cameras.  I have even heard that the people behind this divide and conquer strategy didn't even offer them to all the MLA's.  Gee I'll bet the MLA's who were predetermined to be foes are feeling all warm and fussy now and just waiting to show their support for their yellow dog leader.

The problem is not the dissidents it is the leadership.  The only thing they have proven very, very good at is stacking NDP meetings. They can't win a general election partially because in close nominations battles the central office interference often loses them one sides volunteers and energy. They get their preferred candidate and then complain that the people they screwed over with underhanded tricks [like handing out yellow scarves as a visual loyalty test] are the reason the party has no traction.

remind remind's picture

Tongue out

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

remind wrote:

Tongue out

Intelligent come back.  How's Moe that great feminist doing?  Seen him lately?  

Remind these control freak men are playing women's issue for themselves and you are being duped because of your principles.  This is about strategy to control who is the next leader.  The yellow scarves people will knife Carole in the back as soon as they believe they have everything in place to ensure only the candidates they back have any real change of winning. The same machine that gave us Uhjal is trying to get their ducks in order so they can do it again.

The misogynists are propping up Carole for the their short term gain.

remind remind's picture

Thanks for the mansplaining to me kropotkin....telling me that I am being duped and all...if you really believed this were the case then you should be solidly behind Carole so they could not insert whom they want...eh!!!!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

remind wrote:

Thanks for the mansplaining to me kropotkin....telling me that I am being duped and all...if you really believed this were the case then you should be solidly behind Carole so they could not insert whom they want...eh!!!!

Remind go back and look at my posting history. You know it shows I supported Carole until the last election loss.  She lost, she should resign now and let democracy reign quickly before it is too late.  If it goes to Nov 2011 expect a quick down and dirty leadership campaign where the timeframe for signing up members is very short.

She is not a messiah just a politician who isn't exciting the electorate and doesn't seem to have anywhere to go to change that.  I wish she had won the last election but she lost so go already and get on with fighting the enemy not your friends.  

Jenny Kwan, Katrine Conroy, Lana Popham, Claire Trevena did the "mansplaing" not me.  A third of the caucus broke with her and the women in that group were in about the same proportion.  

remind remind's picture

oh really they told me I was being duped did theyfrankly babble is just not worth it anymore other than to look at be be thankful that I now know who are my allies and who are not.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Like the rest of the BC NDP around here you sure do ditch your allies at the first sign of independent thought. Not a great strategy for winning elections but really good as something to whine about.  

Wah wah people don't like the control freaks in the NDP.  They are therefore sexist and racist.  Notice YOU have claimed that people who are against her leadership are sexist and misogynist.  So are you saying these women MLA's are sexist or racist?  Is that what Jenny is, a sexist racist person?

Throw out the dissidents and then after the next election you can blame them for the lose.  That way it is never your fault that the election strategies suck it is those others who are not really allies because they got tired of holding their noses.

Stockholm

kropotkin1951 wrote:

She (Carol James) is not a messiah just a politician who isn't exciting the electorate and doesn't seem to have anywhere to go to change that.

Very, very few politicains ever actually "excite" the electorate. Do you think Dalton McGoofball here in Ontario "excited" anyone before he crushed the tories under Ernie Eves in 2003?? Has Stephen Harper ever "excited" anyone? Lorne Calvert managed to win ane election in Saskatchewan despite being about as exciting as a mashed potato sandwich. The leader of the BC NDP doesn't need to be "exciting" - dave Barrett was very exciting and lost three straight elections! All you need is to get more votes and be less despicable than the other party.

Brian White

Just a note that Les leane and Gary Mason have lined up to support Carole James.

They claim to be "mistified" as to why others are rebelling against her. Even though they are party to the reasons.

These are guys who want to keep the NDP down in the dirt.

Interesting that they allign themselves with James, and her council. and remind and stockholm.

I would be very agreeable if stockholm and remind would take part in attempts to prove or disprove "the pecking order theory" of society on another thread.   Basically it claims that some people (Perhaps most people) have a little switch in their brain that tells them to follow bullys that are higher on the pecking order.

(Humans being a social animal related to monkeys and apes).  Anyway the theory is that lots of time the old monkey brain override the thinking brain. Especially in a situation where the person feels that they belong to a group, they will follow loyally even when it means rationally that they will be slaughtered.  I think remind and stockholm see themselves as ndp through and through and automatically allign themselves with the leader, no matter what the logic of the situation.

Remind and stockholm alligned with her when she supported carbon tax, then they were quite vocal in her support when she opposed carbon tax and they still support her even after  she got reconverted to supporting it again.

That makes a rational brain spin. (But helps support the theory).

 

Brian White

Stockholm wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

She (Carol James) is not a messiah just a politician who isn't exciting the electorate and doesn't seem to have anywhere to go to change that.

 All you need is to get more votes and be less despicable than the other party.

What are you saying? That the ndp was more dispicable than the bc libs for the last 15 years?

babbler 8

Vote for us, we're less despicable! That should be the slogan, totally.

Stockholm

Brian White wrote:

 

Remind and stockholm alligned with her when she supported carbon tax, then they were quite vocal in her support when she opposed carbon tax and they still support her even after  she got reconverted to supporting it again.

That makes a rational brain spin. (But helps support the theory).

 

 

OK, we get it - you HATE the NDP and you especially hate Carol James. You've only posted the same thing about 100 times. Its redundant. Why do you even bother saying the exact same thing again and again and again. Maybe if you spent more time trying to create Sterk-mania for your beloved leader and less time writing these redundant repetitive screeds - your BC Green party wouldn't be so moribund.

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

Brian White wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

She (Carol James) is not a messiah just a politician who isn't exciting the electorate and doesn't seem to have anywhere to go to change that.

 All you need is to get more votes and be less despicable than the other party.

What are you saying? That the ndp was more dispicable than the bc libs for the last 15 years?

Good one.

Fidel

And so with one in four British Columbians receiving HST rebate cheques because they live below the poverty line, that's despicable.

Despicable is owning the worst child poverty rates in the country in Liberal B.C.

Now that's despicable.

Corporate stooges in Campbell's government should set their alarm clocks for 3 am every morning to remind themselves to beg, borrow or steal social consciences. No soul Liberals.

Vansterdam Kid

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The yellow scarves is symbolic of the rot in the BC NDP.  You can't have a leader whose stick is getting along with everyone and then do an overt loyalty test in front of the cameras.  I have even heard that the people behind this divide and conquer strategy didn't even offer them to all the MLA's.  Gee I'll bet the MLA's who were predetermined to be foes are feeling all warm and fussy now and just waiting to show their support for their yellow dog leader.

The problem is not the dissidents it is the leadership.  The only thing they have proven very, very good at is stacking NDP meetings. They can't win a general election partially because in close nominations battles the central office interference often loses them one sides volunteers and energy. They get their preferred candidate and then complain that the people they screwed over with underhanded tricks [like handing out yellow scarves as a visual loyalty test] are the reason the party has no traction.

It's ironic isn't it. One of Carole Jame's consistent themes over her leadership has been her emphasis on everyone getting along. Yet when it comes down to it she can't even do that right within her own party. The Yellow Scarves were juvenile, puerile and tacky. It's yet another example of the NDP braintrust fucking things up when it was completely unnecessary to do so. It also played into the media meme that the party is in complete dissaray, which is, correct me if I'm wrong not what the leader wants to portray? If you can't even prove to the general public that your own party can get along amongst themselves, then how is anyone to believe that people outside of the party that are traditional opponents are going to agree with it? It completely undercuts the collaborationist meme the party has been promoting and it makes the NDP in general and her in particular look foolish.

After all if Carole James was such a good conciliator shouldn't she be able to have come to a respectful compromise with those who disagreed with her decision to kick Simpson out before it all blew up all over the place? If she can't even do that then why should we believe that she's going to get Unions and Corporations to come to a compromise on contentious issues that divide them? Why would we believe that she could get resource extraction companies and workers onside with environmentalists? Etc, etc.

Let's play a game. Let's assume it is the dissidents that are the bad ones fucking everything up here that they all started it (of course I don't believe that for a second... but I'll indulge the reminds, Stockholm's etc's of the world). Okay, doesn't that mean that Carole James, to be intellectually consistent and play up one of her strength's, is required to compromise with them? Bring the dissidents to the table to compromise, thus re-uniting a badly divided party, or the loyalists can continue to look like the hypocrites that they are.

remind remind's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Like the rest of the BC NDP around here you sure do ditch your allies at the first sign of independent thought.

Funny, I think it is not me who is ditching allies....as for independant thought, interesting that you claim that given you are aligning yourself with those who have been sanctioned here before for espousing sexist crap....and yes this is a fact, as most everyone who has been extremly vocal against Carole here at babble, has exhibited sexism that they have had to be callled on...and yes I do keep track.

Quote:
Not a great strategy for winning elections but really good as something to whine about

Ironic, given the fact that it is not been me whining ad naseum about Carole, nor actually about anything...and that divisive in fighting, male pissing matches in other words, is what is really not good for winning elections.

Quote:
Wah wah people don't like the control freaks in the NDP.  They are therefore sexist and racist.

Personally, I have found most control freaks are men, walking the patriarchial line and trying to force others to do so, and interesting that you acknowledge the control freak nature of those, like yourself, who are whining.  Even more interesting that you think it is okay for you guys to whine, but apparently not others, who really aren't, even though you think for some reason they are. Quite the state of hypocrisy. So you can keep your mockery to yourself, and that is me putting it nicely.

Quote:
 Notice YOU have claimed that people who are against her leadership are sexist and misogynist.  So are you saying these women MLA's are sexist or racist?  Is that what Jenny is, a sexist racist person?

Am not going to speculate what those women MLA's are thinking, but  will ask; do you think women cannot be racist or sexist?

Quote:
Throw out the dissidents

Are you speaking of yourself and others like yourself who  allege they have walked away? Or about Simpson, the former BC Liberal?

Quote:
and then after the next election you can blame them for the lose.  That way it is never your fault that the election strategies suck it is those others who are not really allies because they got tired of holding their noses.

That would be you speculating on other's thoughts and actions, and then bashing them for your own speculations. And I have found through my life that sometimes I have to hold my nose/bite tongue amongst friends, who really are allies in essence eh, when their actions to do always meet  the way I would do things. If people don't, and immaturely hold their friends to higher standards or expectations than they hold themselves, they most likely have no friends. Thus no allies either, as no one can measure up to their demands of "perfection".

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

remind wrote:

Quote:
 Notice YOU have claimed that people who are against her leadership are sexist and misogynist.  So are you saying these women MLA's are sexist or racist?  Is that what Jenny is, a sexist racist person?

Am not going to speculate what those women MLA's are thinking, but  will ask; do you think women cannot be racist or sexist?

 

 

Yes I think that women can be both sexist and racist.  Do you think the women in the BC NDP who oppose Carole are racist and sexist?  You say will not speculate on them but you assert not speculate that every man opposing her is or is at least allying themselves with sexists and racists. I am aligning myself with the women dissents, does that make me a racist and sexist?  Do your slurs have any meaning left when you use a broad enough brush to include Jenny Kwan as a racist and sexist?

Erik Redburn

Maybe Maggie Thatcher, Condie Rice, Angela Merckle and Rita Johnson should have used the same logic to deflect attention away from what they actually stood for and who they actually served.   Maybe Sarah Palin still can.  

NorthReport

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who has been an elected MLA for many terms 

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who owns their own riding

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who has previously been a cabinet minister in a provincial government

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who can reach out to communities that previously have not been strong NDP supporters 

Maybe its time we started thinking, instead of running on emotions, eh.

NorthReport
NorthReport

What inroads is the BC NDP making into the Chinese-Canadian community? Or is the question better framed to read why is the BC NDP not making inroads into the Chinese-Canadian community?

NorthReport

Some caucus ejections are different from others

 

 

Bob Simpson was turfed after offering some fairly mild criticisms of a major speech Ms. James had given a few days earlier at a convention of municipal politicians. But he wasn't really ejected for that; it was the last straw. According to Ms. James's office, there was compelling evidence Mr. Simpson had been working surreptitiously for some time to undermine the leader's authority within the caucus. Her decision was an easy one.

Of course it would be lovely if all politicians could speak their minds. But we all know why that isn't possible most of the time. The media pounce on dissension and outspokenness like a cat on a mouse. We're told it portends troubles for a leader when it happens. If a leader doesn't do anything about it, we're told it betrays weakness.

Most often, it's those who are ejected who end up paying the greatest price. Occasionally, however, the outcasts become something else entirely.

Martyrs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/some-caucus-ejectio...

West Coast Greeny

NorthReport wrote:

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who has been an elected MLA for many terms 

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who owns their own riding

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who has previously been a cabinet minister in a provincial government

Maybe the NDP needs a leader who can reach out to communities that previously have not been strong NDP supporters 

Maybe its time we started thinking, instead of running on emotions, eh.

Outside of Jenny Kwan, you don't have any MLAs that have served more than one term. Remember 2001?

And I'm not so sure you want cabinet ministers from the government responsible for 2001...

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Moe the Saviour of the party.

Fidel

Mabel Elmore supports James who is poised to become B.C.'s first democratically elected female premier.

And so do I support Carole James. She's worked hard for it. She's got seniority. You don't abandon people who've fought so hard and for so long for the party and people of British Columbia. You just don't.

Quitting is for disgraced Liberal Party has beens.

Solidarnosc!

Brian White

Fidel, would you like to help design a new logo for the BC NDP?  (Rants are great, but action counts too).

Carole's backers must have approved the new logo.  Which is a bit of a surprise even to me. 

I do not think the brand new logo is very good. I think it is a disaster actually but thankfully very few people know about it yet.

Maybe the federalistas like you can help too.

You are the parent party and parents help children sometimes. 

Stockholm

Is there nothing more substantive to discuss than the graphic design elements of an NDP logo? You need to get out a little bit more.

UnionSupporter

Don't count James out of the race yet. Here is long time political observer and thetyee.ca star commentator Rafe Mair on Carole's chances: 

"The NDP is in the process of devouring each other but then it's always been a nest of adders that rarely sheath their fangs. Even at the testimonial to Dave Barrett last Saturday you could sense the unsettled conditions. The question in the NDP, in case you've been on Mars for the past couple of years, is whether or not Carole James can win. It never seems to dawn on them that she might lose because they can't get their act together. 

The Carole James I saw in her press conference last week when she took the best the media could throw at her and batted pitch after pitch out of the park, showed toughness not much seen before. It was the same at the tribute for Barrett - she didn't beat about the bush and made it clear that she was in the fight to stay. 

If she can maintain that steely determination and get her venomous adders targeted on Liberals rather than themselves, she could be tough to beat."

Source

NorthReport

I agree that Carole is looking better, but the question for a lot of folks is it too little, too late. And more importantly, she needs to show some smart leadership and bring Simpson back into the Caucus sooner, rather than later.

 

And by-the-way,  on Rafe's track record at predicting political events, I think he is batting just about zero.

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