Who Replaces Carole James?

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remind remind's picture

UnionSupporter wrote:
Don't count James out of the race yet. Here is long time political observer and thetyee.ca star commentator Rafe Mair on Carole's chances: 

"The NDP is in the process of devouring each other but then it's always been a nest of adders that rarely sheath their fangs. Even at the testimonial to Dave Barrett last Saturday you could sense the unsettled conditions. The question in the NDP, in case you've been on Mars for the past couple of years, is whether or not Carole James can win. It never seems to dawn on them that she might lose because they can't get their act together. 

The Carole James I saw in her press conference last week when she took the best the media could throw at her and batted pitch after pitch out of the park, showed toughness not much seen before. It was the same at the tribute for Barrett - she didn't beat about the bush and made it clear that she was in the fight to stay. 

If she can maintain that steely determination and get her venomous adders targeted on Liberals rather than themselves, she could be tough to beat."

Exactly, and thanks for the article...

* bolding mine

Centrist

Fidel wrote:
Mabel Elmore supports James who is poised to become B.C.'s first democratically elected female premier.

 

Yeah, Mable is from the far left of the party. Another Bev Meslo. Stock's type of candidate. Wink

Fidel

Brian White wrote:

Fidel, would you like to help design a new logo for the BC NDP?  (Rants are great, but action counts too).

Carole's backers must have approved the new logo.  Which is a bit of a surprise even to me.

I do not think the brand new logo is very good. I think it is a disaster actually but thankfully very few people know about it yet.

Maybe the federalistas like you can help too.

You are the parent party and parents help children sometimes.

What I think is that if 80 some-odd percent of the party votes for Carole, then I think it's a pretty definitive statement about who they want to lead the party into the next election.

I'm just a guy who votes NDP. I'm an unpaid foot soldier for federal and provincial campaigns. And since Woody Allen once said that 80 per-cent of life is just showing up, I will continue to do that, too.

Brian White

Stockholm wrote:

Is there nothing more substantive to discuss than the graphic design elements of an NDP logo? You need to get out a little bit more.

Well, it would be nice if the provincial ndp released some policys for discussion but so far the new look

and the rebellion against the tyrant leader is pretty much all we have.

Logo's are important.

i am NDP

Seriously? That is going to make you puff up your chest with pride? 

I know someone on youtube who would do a better logo painting with her feet!

http://www.youtube.com/user/jantheempress#p/a/648D4334B815EA36/1/Wq1uYij...

Why cannot the NDP hire a local artist to do it? Lots of talent in BC.

This lady could do a far better job.

http://www.youtube.com/v/crCUaPgcPlA?version=3

You support the arts? Well prove it.

 

Brian White

Fidel, I thought you were a communist. So no logo effort unless you get paid!? I do unpaid work myself, so I do not know what the problem is. 

Well, you were uninformed, 80% of the party DIDN"T vote for Carole. The MLA's did not even have the privelage of voting.  The vote was the current leadership council agreeing among themselves that they should continue to lead the party further into the wilderness.

The main stream media in BC are VERY happy with that. 

They prefer the BC libs and look forward to  BC Libs Versus the Walking Dead  Part 3 in the next election.

Fidel wrote:

What I think is that if 80 some-odd percent of the party votes for Carole, then I think it's a pretty definitive statement about who they want to lead the party into the next election.

I'm just a guy who votes NDP. I'm an unpaid foot soldier for federal and provincial campaigns. And since Woody Allen once said that 80 per-cent of life is just showing up, I will continue to do that, too.

UnionSupporter

@Brian White -

The NDP members did make a decision at the last convention - to have leadership review in 2011. Between conventions the NDP membership is represented by Provincial Council. Ridings met and gave direction to their Provincial Council representatives before this council - hence the resolutions up for debate. The outcome is a legitimate expression of the will of the members. Just because it wasn't the outcome a minority wanted to see doesn't make it any less legitimate. Now is the time to pull together and turn NDP energies on winning the next election and winning a mandate to address homelessness, climate change, economic stagnation and a better future for our kids.

Stockholm

I suppose we could go back to endless wonkish discussions about STV - look at how well Ireland is governed (not) and they have STV.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I suppose we could go back to endless wonkish discussions about STV - look at how well Ireland is governed (not) and they have STV.

lol this is the funniest statement I have read in a long time.  STV is the cause of the Irish collapse. 

Leave it to you too not blame the capitalist ponsi schemes their banking class got involved in.  Great progressive analysis

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

If Carole had shown this kind of grit and in your face opposition to corruption and mismanagement by the LIberals instead of playing Ms. Nice Guy she would be Premier now and we wouldn't need to have this discussions.  BUT SHE DIDN'T 

Brian White

Desperation strikes the ontario representative. He has nothing to say. He tries to bully me just like James bullies her mla's.

Well, guess what, her MLA's were elected by the voting public, not by a council of idiots.  

The voting public care a lot more about fair play than the council thinks it does.

Stockholm wrote:

I suppose we could go back to endless wonkish discussions about STV - look at how well Ireland is governed (not) and they have STV.

UnionSupporter

@Brian White - New Democratic Party affairs, including leader, constitution, executive etc are determined by NDP members, not the voting public writ large. Not sure where you are situated, but perhaps you are more familiar with some US jurisdictions where the voting public are invited to participate in primaries, for example.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Indeed they are and parties with good leadership adapt to changing circumstances as they arise. when the convention passed the resolution there where not many people who would have predicted a Liberal win followed by a collapse within months.  The resolution was intended to provide a proper mid term election review. Sorry to burst peoples bubble the game has changed and there is no fixed term.  Fixed term election every four years and not sooner are american not parliamentary which I am sure UnionSUpporter you know well.  

The back room dealers were caught in disarray and the last thing they want is a wide open leadership membership drive and convention they can't control because their game plan is already set for a convention defeat for Carole in '11 and a tightly controlled and short leadership race. 

UnionSupporter

@ Kropotkin - Are you suggesting that the dissident MLAs are being manipulated by a backroom scheme to damage Carole James beyond sustainability and force a leadership convention before a possible snap election called by whoever emerges as Liberal leader? Damn, that's nefarious, almost machiavelian. I wonder if they know?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

No. I am suggesting that the discontents are likely tired of the back room manipulation.  The cabal doesn't want this distraction so no they are not in control it is the opposite. If the Liberals had not imploded immediately after the election I don't think many would have given Carole any chance of surviving the leadership review. Personally I think she had a good first election and she should have stepped down in an orderly fashion after her second loss. Instead it seems we have to stick with her because the Liberals are really low in the polls when if they were not low in the polls Carole would be toast.

Great strategy to bring on the new energy required to win government.

Fidel

Brian White wrote:

Fidel, I thought you were a communist. So no logo effort unless you get paid!? I do unpaid work myself, so I do not know what the problem is.

Well, you were uninformed, 80% of the party DIDN"T vote for Carole. The MLA's did not even have the privelage of voting.  The vote was the current leadership council agreeing among themselves that they should continue to lead the party further into the wilderness.

The main stream media in BC are VERY happy with that.

They prefer the BC libs and look forward to  BC Libs Versus the Walking Dead  Part 3 in the next election.

Fidel wrote:

What I think is that if 80 some-odd percent of the party votes for Carole, then I think it's a pretty definitive statement about who they want to lead the party into the next election.

I'm just a guy who votes NDP. I'm an unpaid foot soldier for federal and provincial campaigns. And since Woody Allen once said that 80 per-cent of life is just showing up, I will continue to do that, too.

Not sure what you mean by that. I am not paid to work for the NDP come election time. I volunteer. Around here the Liberal Party has to pay people to be their friends. And some take out Liberal and that other Party's memberships in hopes of riding the gravy train with government contracts and other political favors.

Which party out there receives more in donations from corporate friends of the Liberal Party? Because that's the party that will always be favoured to win the propaganda war with being able to pay for expensive TV and radio time and newspaper ads, public squawking engagemts, and kissing babies at barbeques etc.

If British Columbians want to maintain their worst in the country child poverty rates and HST-based economics of poverty while corporations cart away profits, it will be their personal choice come next election. I would recommend voting NDP though.

Brian White

http://www.publiceyeonline.com/archives/005516.html

Quotes below. The guy has no complaints about James, the rest of the leadership is his issue.

A provincial New Democrat executive member and former candidate has quit the party over its "marginalization of Indigenous peoples, communities, voices and issues." In a letter exclusively obtained by Public Eye, Troy Sebastian - a member of the Ktunaxa Nation

"the indifference and privilege that the party demonstrates towards Indigenous peoples is shameful" - especially for a "party that so effortlessly espouses social justice as a core principle and consistently fails to address these issues."

 

Brian White

O ok, so who is the idiot that decided that elected mla's have NO vote on who leads them?  Thats like the british navy 150 years ago, abducting people to crew the ships.  Are the MLA's slaves to the party now? No rights, no votes, except as directed in the ledge?

Thats a disgraceful abuse of democracy. They should pledge allegance to Canada, the voters and then the bluddy party.

The ONLY legitimate voter approved wing of the party and they have no vote on an important issue?  What is your answer to that?  "Well these are the rules that WE made up"?

And by the way, vote by show of hands? and yellow scarves to show up the traitors? 

I DARE you to give an answer to that.

Just a little off the beaten democratic path, don't you think?

Is that part of the rules that you made up too?  And James fired Simpson on her own.  So when are you going to adjust the rules to retrospectively allow her to do that?  Here is a thing for the smart guys who make up the rules and break them as they see fit.

Your games will never attract young idealistic people.  And without young idealistic people, the ndp is doomed.

But I don't think you care, it is all about being a boss, and lording it over the common man, isn't it?

You are totally anti the democratic process.  Harpers mirror image.  No more, no less.

UnionSupporter wrote:

@Brian White - New Democratic Party affairs, including leader, constitution, executive etc are determined by NDP members, not the voting public writ large. Not sure where you are situated, but perhaps you are more familiar with some US jurisdictions where the voting public are invited to participate in primaries, for example.

Fidel

No it's BC that's doomed to more crooked Liberal government and vast inequalities made permanent features of society out there. If people are stupid enough to vote Liberal, then that's their  prerogative. Liberals will always be on the take from big business and running well funded election campaigns. They only need a few percent more than the NDP to win a phony majority. Let the BC wing of the Libranos run that province ALL the way into the ground. At some point British Columbians might even learn.

NorthReport

Mistake number one - removing Simpson from Caucus

Mistake number two - not re-admitting Simpson to Caucus

Mistake number three - going public with the divisions in the party

Solution - the Liberals are on the run, and NDPers need to move on about the divisions within the party. We have a leadership review process in place, so just allow it to happen. Energy right now will be best spent digging ourselves out of debt, building riding organizations to get ready to choose a candidate, and work to build up the constituency, etc,

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture
Policywonk

Brian White wrote:

O ok, so who is the idiot that decided that elected mla's have NO vote on who leads them?  Thats like the british navy 150 years ago, abducting people to crew the ships.  Are the MLA's slaves to the party now? No rights, no votes, except as directed in the ledge?

Try 196 years. Impressment ended in 1814. Elected MLAs have the same rights to elect or vote on a review of the Leader as any other member at a Convention.

NorthReport

I don't think this public squabbling is going to do the BC NDP any good.

NDP leadership under fire from within

http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/pentictonwesternnews/new...

NorthReport

This is just devastating for the BC NDP

And there's more, much more. Read the whole article.

Carole James: Mission accomplished?

 

Hearing Carole James declare that the challenge to her leadership is over – because the NDP’s Provincial Council backed her – reminds me of George Bush on the US air craft carrier with the huge “Mission Accomplished” sign behind him after the initial attack in Iraq.

Talk about not getting it.

The NDP is now on suicide watch as James and Moe Sihota with James’ staff (eager to keep their jobs) egging her on, try to silence principled people in the party who know there has to be a change.

Those in the party who want a leadership review or a leadership convention point out that James’ leadership is severely lacking what it takes to win the next election. Who on earth could actually refute this sentiment? Of course she’s inadequate. If all it takes for this execrable government to be back in the running is to rid itself of Gordon Campbell that speaks volumes about how weak that leadership has been.

If James had been doing her job for the last seven years people would remember all the horrible policies of this government and they would be in danger of losing official party status in the next election. Apparently all they recall is that Campbell is a liar. The rest is lost because James never attacked the liberals for their destructive policies with enough energy and conviction to make it stick.

James’ performance before and after the Provincial Council meeting just confirm what the critics are saying – that she has no judgement, no political instincts and is incapable of strategic thinking. Did she really believe – and did the party brass believe – that simply saying it’s over would make it so? This position is dangerously delusional for the party and ultimately the province which faces another four years of the worst government the province has ever seen.

James will be exclusively responsible for that eventuality if she continues to hold on to her position. She will go down in the history books as sacrificing the good of the province for her own selfish ends.

The media spin on the “yellow scarves” caper at the Provincial Council meeting (supporters wore them, thirteen MLAs did not) completely misses the point. Who is responsible for bringing embarrassment to the party and to James? Certainly not the baker’s dozen who had not previously come out publicly and stated their opposition to the leader. Now she has identified them as a large group of dissidents. Just how does this help the party or James?  This outing was accomplished exclusively by the brinkmanship of James and her staff. What did she think the media would do? They did as they should have done – they counted the people without scarves and have established an “us” versus “them” scenario which will not go away.

 

Brian White

You have the Perfect truth, the elected mla's had no vote on the leader. I read that in several places.

  Except 1,  Carole James.  Dear leader got to vote for herself.

The perfect world, in isolation.   Now I have another truth for you. 

Moe Sihota was building just a couple of years ago. (Maybe policy wonk can give us the exact dates)  Hotels or condo's. It was BIG.  What happened? 

Why did he give that up for his $74 thousand a year income as President?  Or maybe President Sihota is still develloping and the NDP is just a part time side  job?  Demolition maybe?

Policywonk wrote:

Brian White wrote:

O ok, so who is the idiot that decided that elected mla's have NO vote on who leads them?  Thats like the british navy 150 years ago, abducting people to crew the ships.  Are the MLA's slaves to the party now? No rights, no votes, except as directed in the ledge?

Try 196 years. Impressment ended in 1814. Elected MLAs have the same rights to elect or vote on a review of the Leader as any other member at a Convention.

NorthReport

As someone already commented recently about the BC Liberals in the Vancouver mainsteam press, the Caucus can throw the leader out. So all it seems that is needed now is for a few more Caucus members to become disenchanted and poof......

Vansterdam Kid

Brian White wrote:

http://www.publiceyeonline.com/archives/005516.html

Quotes below. The guy has no complaints about James, the rest of the leadership is his issue.

A provincial New Democrat executive member and former candidate has quit the party over its "marginalization of Indigenous peoples, communities, voices and issues." In a letter exclusively obtained by Public Eye, Troy Sebastian - a member of the Ktunaxa Nation

"the indifference and privilege that the party demonstrates towards Indigenous peoples is shameful" - especially for a "party that so effortlessly espouses social justice as a core principle and consistently fails to address these issues."

 

<sarcasm>Well how can that be? I thought all the opposition to Carole James, including her leadership team, was purely sexist and racist. Since Carole James is a woman and non-white </sarcasm>(although really, one could easily argue that she has white privledge since she looks white - but that's a whole nother can of worms I don't even want to open right now)<sarcasm> it's ipso facto not possible that he could have any complaints. He needs to rejoin the party and cease his selfish whining.</sarcasm>

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Actually, it seems to confirm the racist reality that James is facing.  It's directed at the party not James.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

It seems to me that yes it indicates systemic anti-FN racism in the party despite electing a Metis woman as leader.  The article highlights the same things the other critics are saying. There was no strong voice during the election on any of the issues that many activists like this member consider to be central to their rationale for being involved in the party.  It also starkly shows how little power Carole has to set the tone and direction.

I say that because my personal encounters with Carole have always left me with a good feeling about her heart and mind but it never translated into anything of substance.  Personally I blame the liberal lite cabal for the debacle of the last election more than I blame Carole but if the team loses when it should win then its time to look elsewhere for leadership.

Vansterdam Kid

RevolutionPlease wrote:

Actually, it seems to confirm the racist reality that James is facing.  It's directed at the party not James.

I know. The point I was trying to make is that as leader she has some how been a counter to this stuff and that if she's deposed the party would easily return to a mythical past where it was in touch with what should be its natural constituency (i.e. the disaffected, such as First Nations people). Not that a new leader with the same inability to counter the "liberal cabal", as Kropotkin puts it, would be any better, but that's the point. The leader should be strong enough to break the loosing and out of touch tradition the usual suspects have held on it. Don't get me wrong, minority leader's are quite limited by majority constituencies in creating fairness for the minority. So it isn't as if one should expect too much in countering hundreds of years of injustice. But the fact that she was so irrelevant to his decision doesn't fill me with confidence in her leadership. It's a symptom of her general ineffectiveness on many issues. Let alone the out of touch disconnect from what core New Democratic principles ought to be.

NorthReport

The leader has to show leadership and heal the party - why is Carole not doing that!

 

She needs to be magnanimous.

NorthReport

A guaranteed loss for the NDP?

The NDP, not wanting to take any chances that they could squeak out a win in the next election, decided that Carole James was the woman to lead them into defeat. She has already been a two-time loser for the party, so why take a chance with someone who may actually look like premier material?

James epitomizes a party that is indecisive, uncommitted and rudderless. Remember when she claimed that Campbell ran his party like a dictator, not allowing his party members to speak their mind?

She skillfully countered this by hypocritically expelling Bob Simpson from the caucus. Simpson had the gall to actually want to be a representative of his constituents and not a James puppet or yes-man.

Last weekend, the NDP abandoned ship and jumped into a leaky boat.

 

 

http://www.thenownews.com/guaranteed+loss/3888546/story.html

remind remind's picture

Vansterdam Kid wrote:
RevolutionPlease wrote:
Actually, it seems to confirm the racist reality that James is facing.  It's directed at the party not James.

I know. The point I was trying to make is that as leader she has some how been a counter to this stuff and that if she's deposed the party would easily return to a mythical past where it was in touch with what should be its natural constituency (i.e. the disaffected, such as First Nations people). Not that a new leader with the same inability to counter the "liberal cabal", as Kropotkin puts it, would be any better, but that's the point. The leader should be strong enough to break the loosing and out of touch tradition the usual suspects have held on it. Don't get me wrong, minority leader's are quite limited by majority constituencies in creating fairness for the minority. So it isn't as if one should expect too much in countering hundreds of years of injustice. But the fact that she was so irrelevant to his decision doesn't fill me with confidence in her leadership. It's a symptom of her general ineffectiveness on many issues. Let alone the out of touch disconnect from what core New Democratic principles ought to be.

Your post is very fuzzy in its construction.

After reading it a couple of times, all I could get from it was that apparently you are blaming James for some of the other's continued racism against FN's....

Also, given the racism charges, I would suggest strongly it is the others who are out of touch with what should be the BCNDP's core principles, not Carole.

NorthReport

Let's get to know these dissident MLAs, and there are a lot of them, and find out what they are thinking and the reasons for their disenchantment.

MLA Sather part of anti-James gang

 

http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgenews/news/1102...

nonest factum

I personally don't understand the "tactics" The Libs are so unpopular and hell - bent on self destruction that all the NDP has to do is NOTHING and they will win.  I don't dislike Carol James but winnability of a candidate in this situation is academic. There must be more going on (ideologically?) than meets the eye. Sure Gregor Robertson will appeal to the business community but they hate the NDP any way. I think the most important thing is to get rid of the "Liberals" before they do more damage.

NorthReport

Whoever is advsing James is making too many mistakes. She is improving but is it enough, fast enough. Anyway, why can't the leader make her own decisions. This situation with Simpson has gotten way out of hand, and that is the leader's fault. Carole needs to correct the situation soon, and time is running out for her to do it. Unfortunately some people involved with the NDP are involved for the wrong reasons. They are there because it looks good on their resume, or they are hoping for some perk if the NDP forms the government. It's time for a new broom to sweep clean. Where are the exciting new policy initiatives?

NorthReport

 

Year of living politically dangerously

 

And the BC NDP engaged in full conflict over Carole James' leadership at the party's provincial council meeting last weekend, with James supporters unsurprisingly defeating a motion calling for a full leadership convention next November.

But James failed to convince nearly 40 per cent of her caucus to publicly endorse her when questioned by media.

That followed the sudden resignation of NDP caucus whip Katrine Conroy on Friday, a news conference with NDP MLAs Jenny Kwan, Lana Popham and Claire Trevena all in attendance to give Conroy support and decline to voice the same for James.

At the root of both the BC Liberal and NDP problems are strikingly similar issues -- is there any room for democracy and dissent within political parties?

And do leaders have the right to demand absolute loyalty of individual MLAs who are elected by voters -- not the party?

Elites and anti-elites

The challenges now faced in both parties are not unique to British Columbia at all -- neither is the province simply a wacky place for politics.

Central to both is the concept of elite domination of politics versus direct democracy.

In Toronto, anti-elite candidate Rob Ford simply devastated elite politician George Smitherman -- a former Ontario Liberal deputy premier -- in the election for mayor.

In the United States, the Tea Party movement has gained huge traction even as it clearly has no coherent policy prescription for the country other than anger at existing politicians.

And right now, that's enough.

Here in B.C. we've seen the incredible public response to the direct democracy citizens' initiative campaign of Fight HST -- which I am involved with -- against the hated Harmonized Sales Tax.

And we'll soon see if the Fight HST-organized recall campaign against BC Liberal cabinet minister Ida Chong in her Oak Bay-Gordon Head riding to add pressure to end the HST gets traction when it begins this week.

Grassroots anger at the HST has already driven Campbell to resign and his party to nosedive in popularity.

Even without an initiative process available in Ontario, Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty -- who also introduced an HST there at the same time as in B.C. -- appears headed for a disastrous defeat in the next election.

The consequence of anti-elite anger at the leadership of both the governing and opposition parties in B.C. is clear: the controversial Campbell could be forced from office by his caucus prior to his planned departure when a new leader is chosen by the BC Liberals on Feb. 26, 2011.

And James could see her party fracture both at the caucus and membership level even before a Nov. 2011 NDP convention holds a scheduled yes or no review vote on her continued leadership.

 

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Columnists/NewsViewsAttitude/

Vansterdam Kid

North Report, you've posted some very good articles highlighting the problem with James and the NDP. And the common theme is very simple for anyone who isn't too obtuse to notice. That's what's so amazing about the BC NDP leadership, including James, but really most left-leaning parties at this time. This is the common theme by the way: the NDP, like the left in general, are allegedly the "pro-people" side of the political equation and yet they're out of touch with the fact that even middle-income people (who determine the state of elections) are angry and want people who will fight for their interests. The modern left constantly tries to look "statesman" like, or like they're willing to "compromise" and "find consensus" with the right when the average person couldn't give less of a fuck about that stuff. People simply want realistic sounding solutions to their problems. The right seems to understand this perfectly well and is acting accordingly, even though they're responsible for the mess that we're all in and obviously everyone posting here would agree that their "solutions" would make things worse. All the while the left -- and I think this is a symptom of the fact that too many on the left are too nice and honestly interested in kumbiya solutions related to everyone getting along -- looks wacky and out of touch by rambling about meta things that nobody cares about. Being out of touch makes one look like an elite, even if one isn't. Unfortunately the left has managed to put itself into the strange position of being an irrelevant elite.

NorthReport

Thanks VK.

Another issue, which relates, of course, is the massive debt the BC NDP occured during the last election. Fuck, we were 2 million dollars in debt. Unbelievable. So instead of organizing and developing a sound party platform over the past year and a half since the last election, we're spending most of time doing fund-raisers. Now we have supposedly paid off $700,000. of it. Whoopee!. Who was responsible for this 2 million dollar debt? Carole James was, and is, because she is the leader. Never again, should the party go into debt to run an election campaign. Do not spend what you don't have. What part of that do people not understand.

nonest factum

I think the problems that have been so intelligently and precisely discussed above are endemic in the BC NDP party itself regardless of the leader. This seems to be a reoccurring problem. A party without a real platform other than anti-Liberal and pro Union. This is 2010 and it's time to do more.

There are no shortage of important issues: health care, education and housing to name a few.

Brian White

Here is my problem with James in a nutshell. She does not listen.  We have seen her amazing ability to close her ears for nearly a decade.

She refuses to listen to her caucus.

Whatever she did, it caused grave offence to Jenny Kwan.

On pro rep, she refused to listen to the closest ndp voters to her, those in her own riding (which voted in favour of it  twice). 

Her speech after the first referendum was basically a 1 fingered salute to the voters in her OWN RIDING.

So what happens if she gets elected Premier?  Who will she listen to?  Voters? No,  Caucus? No.

The past guides us to the future.

Will she listen to economists, to engineers, to scientists?

Now its really getting serious! Will she make them pawns like Harper does, or like she does with her caucus?

Will she continue to listen to advisors who just tell her how great she is?

We have 5 senses.  Take away listening from a politician and you have either a dead duck now or a demagogue that later turns into a dead duck.

One campbell is too much.

I much prefer the first choice  to the second.

Stockholm

NorthReport wrote:

Thanks VK.

Another issue, which relates, of course, is the massive debt the BC NDP occured during the last election. Fuck, we were 2 million dollars in debt. Unbelievable. So instead of organizing and developing a sound party platform over the past year and a half since the last election, we're spending most of time doing fund-raisers. Now we have supposedly paid off $700,000. of it. Whoopee!. Who was responsible for this 2 million dollar debt? Carole James was, and is, because she is the leader. Never again, should the party go into debt to run an election campaign. Do not spend what you don't have. What part of that do people not understand.

That's ridiculous. ALL parties borrow money to run election campaigns and then spend years paying off the debt. You can be sure that the federal NDP took out a big bank loan in 2008 as well. The BC Liberals are thought to be about $5 million in debt. Saying that a party cannot borrow money to run an election campaign would be like saying that it should be illegal to take out a mortgage to buy a house and that people should only be allowed to buy a house iof they have a wheel-barrow full of cash!

In any case, if you think the BCNDP has money problems now - how much worse do you think it would be if there was a leadership context with half a dozen people all trying to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a leadership campaign - during which time all donations to the central party would completely dry up. To this day, the federal Liberals have not recovered financially from all the costs associated with the 2005 Liberal leadership contest.

NorthReport

Thanks for making my point. The NDP should never, ever, go into debt.

 

Quote:
To this day, the federal Liberals have not recovered financially from all the costs associated with the 2005 Liberal leadership contest.

remind remind's picture

This thread has jumped out of the fish bowl and into the toilet tank....

 

Stockholm

If you don't want to go into debt to run an election campaign (something ALL parties do) - then you are basically saying - spend no money in the next election and be reduced to half a dozen seats.

Politics101

Brian - if Carole has twice ignored the wishes of the voters in her riding why don`t  YOU  start a recall petition against her!

Brian White

There is no "If" it is a matter of public record.   I WILL write a letter in the papers asking for someone to review All political party constitutions and give them a clean (or dirty) bill of health on their constitutions. I hope you do the same.

Maybre something good will come out of this.

Politics101 wrote:

Brian - if Carole has twice ignored the wishes of the voters in her riding why don`t  YOU  start a recall petition against her!

Stockholm

The voters in Victoria-Beacon Hill obvious LOVE Carol James since they have elected her twice in massive landslides. Obviously they don't feel she is ignoring their wishes!

NorthReport

I think it's time for organized labour to come to an understanding with the environmentalists in order to win the next election.

 

And we need some communication tools / social media like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/commonpeople2010#p/a/u/1/EKFTtYx2OHc

Maysie Maysie's picture

Ok, this is long and there are a gajillion other threads on this issue. Closing.

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