Leaving Babble for awhile
I haven't logged in to babble for about a week (maybe just under that) and I'd like to take the time to say that I won't be posting here for awhile.
Michelle, thanks for doing a thankless job. I appreciate the work you do here.
For me, this place is getting toxic. Far too toxic to be healthy for me anyways. I have been posting here for quite some time. I've met some good net people, and some I may have regular spats with (Sven) but I like them as well.
Before I leave for my hiatus from babble, I'd like to say a couple of things:
1) I believe that Saga has contributed greatly to the Aboriginal forum, and that she was right in her assessment of what happened in the kiddie rape thread. However, it is quite clear to me that she has a major problem with Babble as a whole, and me and Michelle in particular. I also don't think it is fair nor wise to have let her spew her rantings for 100 posts in the Babble Reactions thread. I think she has been given far too much leeway. Saga is a big part of why I am leaving. I am sure this makes her happy.
2) Cueballs performance in the thread on kiddie rape was appalling. I have no issue with innocent before proven guilty, and I am no fan of the police. I think my posting hiostory shows that. But it seemed to me that that entire thread was first and foremost posted by remind to get people taking about the issue of child abuse, and that got quickly derailed by Cueball with his "idiot" comments and his extrapolation of police work on kiddie porn to that of taking away the rights of activists was in poor taste (in that I concur with pretty much all the females who tried to get that thread back on track).
3) Making Fidel leave because he asked a question, a legit question, about whether Cueball had been stuck in pop-ups, was not a good decision as far as I am concerned. Someone cannot claim to be an expert in something, and use that defense to apply to kid rapers, if they apparently have no idea what or how the internet works. But then again, I never did like Cueball, nor he me.
Any ways, to the rest of you I'll miss you and your conversations but intil this place is not so filled with animosity and hate, I chose to leave.
Michelle, you have your work cut out for you. I personally would have banned Saga, and given Cueball a time out - not Fidel, but I respect your decision.
So have a great week, month, etc. I'll come back when it is safe for me to do so.
This is bullshit. You obviouslty don't have the courage of your convictions. And precious little honour yourself. You are just using the opportunity of your proposed vacation as a podium to continue your slandering personal attack.'
I used to have respect for you, even when I fought with you. Now I have little. Bye bye!
It is not actually a post about Stargazer leaving, buddy, It's a ppost 2/3rds of which is a continuation of a debate and a personal attack on my internet charachter, using the dramatic venue of Stargazer's departure as a venue. Nothing to respect there. Spose' couldn't help themselves.
Cheap garbage.
Fine, and in so doing doesn't really leave me an opportunity to give a fair "cheerio" and "hope you will be back soon", type of reply. She had an opportunity to say what she wanted and say it then. She still has an opportunity to do so, and she can open any number of threads to discuss the issues, if she desires. She is using this opportunity to get a few free pot shots off.
And I did not call her "cheap garbage" I am saying what she is doing is "cheap garabge".
I would say she does not give a rat's ass about depriving you of an opportunity to give a "cheerio", nor anything else..as she apparently sees you, and others, as wishing to drive her away. Which has validity in itself, if only because that is the way she sees it.
Still none of it gives you the right to label her something so horrific as "cheap garbage". It is the penultimate of dehumanization.
ETD, because you edited yours while I was responding. Again a fine line, if there is one, between labelling the person or labelling their actions. Moreover, the distinction is not there in your original commentary, so who would know you were meaning her actions.
I certainly no desire to drive anyone away. I have always been opposed to "driving" anyone away. If I did think there as cause I would ask for someone to be banned. In the case of Fidel, I did. It is the only time in the many years that I have asked for such.
I did not, I repeat, did not say that she was "cheap garabge" I am saying that this debating tactic is "cheap garbage." I have already corrected you on this point. Distort much?
This is how threads go toxic. Cueball, she's not here, so stop going on about it. Remind, he didn't call her cheap garbage, he said her post was cheap garbage. There is a big difference.
Stop attacking eachother!
Cue, you added everything from this comment "Fine, and in so doing doesn't really leave me an opportunity to give a fair "cheerio" and "hope you will be back soon", type of reply", on to your post while I was responding to you. So please do stop with the distorting things much rhetoric.
And I will stand by the observation that your "cheap garbage" comentary, stands alone as one sentence, in its own paragraph, so who would know that you were referring to her "tactics"?
Tactics that you are ascribing to her, but I definitely do not see. I see her as being distressed, wanting to indicate her points of distress, and her sadness at how things are.
Fine.
Nonetheless, some people seem to be inferring that it is in bad taste for me to respond in kind to SG's OP. As you have observed it is an explanation of her reasons/feelings etc., and within that there are specifics about the debate and my Cueball charachter there, so I see no reason for me not to respond.
Well, I will miss your pithy comments, stargazer. You have a way of cutting through the crap that I quite admire. In fact, I admired you from the beginning of my time on babble. I am sorry that you feel you need to take a break from babble.
I agree with what Michelle said in the other thread that if we all just remember not to make personal attacks, a lot of other things fall into place too. I regret that some of my views are such hot buttons for her personally, but the rules against personal attacks do not change because someone has a particular emotional reaction to a topic or a perceived/misperceived comment.I hope stargazer does return with a fresh frame of mind, as she will be missed.
remind, he didn't label her.
cueball behaved like an idiot in that thread, I agree.
However, I don't see 'banning' material in what he did.
Nor in what I did.
Fidel, on the other hand, did a slimy personal attack thing and deserved a holiday. Stargazer repeated Fidel's accusations several times, but got no censure.
Goodbye Stargazer, I hardly knew ye. But what I knew I generally liked. Anyway, good luck out there in the real world
Sorry to butt in with a semantic point but now that the phrase "cheap garbage" has been used four-score-and-twenty times or so in this thread, could anyone tell me the purpose of the word "cheap" in this phrase? In what way does the derisive nature of anything being compared to garbage change if the garbage is "cheap"?
K, now that we have cleared that up, I do believe you had a right to respond, your name was mentioned, and I would never take exception to that right. Only was taking one to what I perceived as dehumanizing labelling, and am happy that you meant what you perceive as her tactics.
I didn't see SG repeat Fidel's accussation, and I agreed that MD did not do so, at least not directly. The worst part of Fidel's accussation for me is that I doubt he actually believed it, but was using it as a tactic in pursuing his long standing vendetta against me, and was therefore making light of a serious issue, which he really did not care about in the slightest.
Well, I suppose it doesn't matter now if she did ...
A lot of us had difficulty with the direction you took that thread, and in my opinion you were also making light of the serious issue of the child sexual abuse industry.
Personally, I don't really give a shit if someone viewing porn (for money) can be 'entrapped' into viewing child sexual abuse, or if someone viewing 'young appearing' girls (for money) is likewise 'entrapped'.Get a lawyer.
The issue of the very robust child trafficking and child sexual abuse network/industry in Canada, however, is of great concern to me.
I don't happen to think that increased police powers is something to be taken lightly. Nor do I think the issue of the politicization of the police force is a light issue. I am doubly concerned about this issue now, since it appears that there are now cases before the courts where political crimes and crime of pedophelia have been linked, in secret trials where reporters can not even look at the case files, nor even the court issued publication ban.
Is Ayad Mejid a terrorist, a pedophile or a victim?
Nor do I, though in the case of pedophiles and porn ... I don't feel strongly about it, and I don't think you will find many women who do. So what if they pick up a couple of borderline creeps? Nope, doesn't bother me at all. Get a lawyer.
It warranted its own thread, for courtesy.
Perhaps if you just acknowledged that, we could move on?
Afterall, this thread is not about you either.
For the record, I do not believe cueball acted like an "idiot" in that thread. He took it in a direction, that was...unexpected, and used some terminology that I found discomforting, at first, but I got what he meant, when he clarified upon questioning.
Moreover, his points were and are valid, however, IMV, they perhaps should have been taken to a compendium thread.
If its not about me, then why is my internet charachters name used repeatedly in the OP? It's about SG being pissed off with me, and feeling that the moderation in that thread unduly favoured me, and she re-iterates the points that she made on that thread, about Cueball.