One in nine men hire prostitutes - Want to talk about it? By: martin dufresne (103 replies) April 13, 2009 - 10:00pmmartin dufresne wrote:
If By: Doug (Apr 15 2009 - 10:48pm) Much like any other By: Doug (Apr 15 2009 - 10:32pm) CMOT Dibbler wrote:
One in By: Doug (Apr 15 2009 - 10:24pm) martin: do you think By: Ghislaine (Apr 15 2009 - 2:47pm) No, he could have paid By: martin dufresne (Apr 15 2009 - 2:45pm) Snert wrote:
Quote:On top of By: Michelle (Apr 15 2009 - 2:35pm) Quote:We should be fighting By: Snert (Apr 15 2009 - 2:11pm) What's there to talk By: josh (Apr 15 2009 - 2:04pm) sorry!
By: CMOT Dibbler (Apr 15 2009 - 2:03pm) Snert wrote:
Quote:On top of By: CMOT Dibbler (Apr 15 2009 - 2:00pm) If you are going to get into By: martin dufresne (Apr 15 2009 - 1:54pm) Quote:On top of all the By: Snert (Apr 15 2009 - 1:31pm) I am currently taking a law By: Ghislaine (Apr 15 2009 - 1:24pm) Tommy_Paine wrote:Is it that By: remind (Apr 15 2009 - 12:05pm) remind wrote:
Michelle By: Fidel (Apr 15 2009 - 11:38am) Quote:How many "Pussy Cat By: al-Qa'bong (Apr 14 2009 - 10:16pm) Is it that I am just getting By: Tommy_Paine (Apr 14 2009 - 9:24pm) I did catch an episode of By: Michelle (Apr 14 2009 - 8:59pm)
I agree more attention By: Tommy_Paine (Apr 14 2009 - 8:02pm) CMOT Dibbler wrote:
One in By: al-Qa'bong (Apr 14 2009 - 7:17pm) I heard John Moore By: Skinny Dipper (Apr 14 2009 - 6:53pm) One in nine men hire By: CMOT Dibbler (Apr 14 2009 - 8:03pm) Michelle wrote:If you start By: remind (Apr 14 2009 - 1:17pm) There is a film that is By: martin dufresne (Apr 14 2009 - 12:03pm) Martin, have any studies By: Maysie (Apr 14 2009 - 9:58am) I don't have anything to add By: Snert (Apr 14 2009 - 9:10am) Good point Not just hoping, By: martin dufresne (Apr 14 2009 - 8:56am) If you start including the By: Michelle (Apr 14 2009 - 6:40am) A considerable proportion of By: martin dufresne (Apr 19 2009 - 9:03pm) I'd really like to see how By: Papal Bull (Apr 13 2009 - 10:38pm) One out of nine? Maybe By: radiorahim (Apr 13 2009 - 10:25pm) It was to be in body and By: martin dufresne (Apr 13 2009 - 9:59pm) One in nine men FREQUENT By: Michelle (Apr 13 2009 - 9:58pm) martin, where did you intend By: Maysie (Apr 13 2009 - 9:36pm) Heh. You've not been able to By: Stephen Gordon (Apr 13 2009 - 9:25pm)
- Closing for length. By: Maysie (May 1 2009 - 4:31pm)
- DanielleB: "...I really By: martin dufresne (May 1 2009 - 3:31pm)
- Because they want access to By: DanielleB (Apr 30 2009 - 10:59pm)
- Cool, Danielle B. Why do you By: jas (Apr 30 2009 - 1:32am)
- Malarek is an abolitionist. By: DanielleB (Apr 30 2009 - 12:21am)
- Good interview with Victor By: martin dufresne (Apr 29 2009 - 8:22pm)
- Janet Bagnall features By: martin dufresne (Apr 24 2009 - 10:34am)
- Actually, I think this By: jas (Apr 22 2009 - 2:57am)
- martin dufresne wrote:I By: Daedalus (Apr 22 2009 - 3:05am)
- I think that "an injury to By: martin dufresne (Apr 21 2009 - 5:32pm)
- martin dufresne wrote:A By: Daedalus (Apr 21 2009 - 12:03pm)
- "Class solidarity under the By: martin dufresne (Apr 21 2009 - 9:36am)
- Hi friends, I work with a By: Nine Knight (Apr 20 2009 - 1:03pm)
- I don't determine my duty on By: Daedalus (Apr 20 2009 - 11:26am)
- Since most do not By: martin dufresne (Apr 20 2009 - 9:32am)
- martin dufresne By: Daedalus (Apr 20 2009 - 7:21am)
- If you happen to be in By: martin dufresne (Apr 19 2009 - 9:53pm)
- "...adopt a more principled By: martin dufresne (Apr 19 2009 - 10:25pm)
- Refuge wrote:Making it so By: Daedalus (Apr 19 2009 - 8:50pm)
- I wanted to include the By: Refuge (Apr 19 2009 - 7:55pm)
- martin dufresne wrote: But By: Refuge (Apr 19 2009 - 7:56pm)
- [quote=triciamaTo my mind By: Daedalus (Apr 19 2009 - 7:18pm)
- Martin, workers' By: triciamarie (Apr 19 2009 - 6:27pm)
- But isn't that more like a By: martin dufresne (Apr 19 2009 - 6:27pm)
- Workers' compensation law By: triciamarie (Apr 19 2009 - 6:22pm)
- It helps not to to think of By: martin dufresne (Apr 19 2009 - 4:49pm)
- As far as I know, By: triciamarie (Apr 19 2009 - 4:46pm)
- martin dufresne wrote: But By: Daedalus (Apr 19 2009 - 2:41pm)
- Great news! With the help of By: martin dufresne (Apr 19 2009 - 1:07pm)
- martin dufresne wrote: I By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 17 2009 - 10:04am)
- Sorry if this is really out By: Hoodeet (Apr 16 2009 - 10:54pm)
- "Legalization" should never By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 8:03pm)
- It should be said that By: Doug (Apr 16 2009 - 7:14pm)
- martin dufresne wrote:Would By: Doug (Apr 16 2009 - 7:06pm)
- I can't believe I'm reading By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 6:25pm)
- martin dufresne wrote: The By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 6:11pm)
- The thread issue is men By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 5:58pm)
- interesting juxtaposition, By: remind (Apr 16 2009 - 5:57pm)
- Sure. I've never used a By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 5:43pm)
- Of course, you recast it. By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 5:53pm)
- Being disingenuous in my By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 5:16pm)
- Disingenuous in your By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 5:06pm)
- Martin, seriously. How do By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 4:44pm)
- Thank you, and no, I didn't By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 4:14pm)
- Do posts # 51 onwards answer By: Ghislaine (Apr 16 2009 - 4:06pm)
- I'm not trying to By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 4:04pm)
- Ah..., I thought you were By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 3:49pm)
- Martin, it is a reasonable By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 4:09pm)
- Well thanks for the By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 3:07pm)
- I think it may be By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 2:56pm)
- Well, I can't pull your By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 2:52pm)
- Martin, you don't need to By: HeywoodFloyd (Apr 16 2009 - 4:06pm)
- I also think the By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 2:47pm)
- Guess he found it, his music By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 1:21am)
- Neil was very emotional. By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 1:18am)
- Like I said, a horrible By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 1:15am)
- "A man needs a maid" By: martin dufresne (Apr 16 2009 - 1:41am)
- Haven't found it but Neil By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 12:58am)
- Any hints on the name of the By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 12:30am)
- I'll look it up. Thanks By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 12:30am)
- If you knew the song, you'd By: jas (Apr 16 2009 - 12:26am)
- I don't think Doug's By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 12:22am)
- It's a Neil Young song. Just By: jas (Apr 16 2009 - 12:17am)
- I didn't really get that By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 16 2009 - 12:12am)
- Hey, dialogue! Good on ya', By: jas (Apr 15 2009 - 11:58pm)
- I miss M. Spector. By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 15 2009 - 11:34pm)
- If it's not clear, I feel By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 15 2009 - 11:26pm)
- So, ya, I've done it. What By: RevolutionPlease (Apr 15 2009 - 11:22pm)
You're parsing it incorrectly. It can only be read that way in a literal manner that lacks all context. It is intended to mean "an injury to one (of us) is an injury to all (of us)" with the "us" being defined by the context in which it is repeated. In a solidarity context, that would be the exploited.
That's not really the position of the "old Left", a form that was far, far more succesful in uniting opposition btw - your "30 years ago" marks the beginning of a social coup by the right and a fragmented, weak opposition, the beginning of a gradual and unabated shift to the right across the whole spectrum of oppression and the intensification of oppression at a global level, even as the "new left" congratulated itself on superficial gains while bemoaning its newfound powerlessness in the face of a renewed and intensified assault against the populations of whole continents. The "New Left", with its focus on deconstructing offensive words and so on, has miserably failed the people of Africa, the Palestinians, Yugoslavians, Afghans and oh so many others. So weak is the approach that the right has even been able to manipulate things like anti-sexism and weaponize them in the service of oppression (a ploy that has been much exploited by proponents of the War on Terror), pitting one form of oppression against another. It has become nothing more than a philanthropist's club, a feelgood association for balming the conscience of well-heeled, affluent suburbanites. Given circumstances, I expect (and welcome) that the etiquette-based leftism embraced by soccer moms, spoiled university students, and men who wear it like a peacock's plumage is about to be rolled back into oblivion, and the left will be renewed and rejuvenated by exploited groups - with the strongest renewal probably emerging out of other parts of the world altogether, beyond the control of the affluent.
Economic oppression was viewed as a "mask", too. The reality being social relations between people.
For instance, this view would hold that it's a kind of magical thinking and fetishism to say that the racist does some racist thing because some entity called 'racism' compelled him to, and by making the appropriate penances, he can free himself from its influences - almost as if it were some sort of evil spirit. And if we all make the penances we can banish the evil spirit forever. 'Racism' is not an entity with agency - a trap much of the left has fallen into, in fetishizing the institutions of oppression and crediting them with an almost supernatural agency. All that exists in reality is social relations between individuals. These may be characterized as racist, sexist etc and we may speak of social relations being characterized by these behaviours and ideas, but they are still no more than social relations. There is no spirit of racism, animating racists everywhere. There is only a common theme to certain social relations between individuals, learned behaviours on the part of individuals.
In this particular case, we wish to marshal support to end the exploitation of prostitutes. I don't think your perspective can be very succesful in doing that, it's just going to turn people off. Imagine going up to a white prostitute who doesn't have a racist bone in her body and attempting to get her involved in anti-racism by telling her she's guilty of supporting it because she's white and she hasn't 'actioned' sufficiently to constitute the appropriate penance. What kind of response do you think you're going to get? A hostile one, and rightly so. Now imagine trying to get her involved by showing her that what she suffers, and what minorities suffer, is similar in many respects - appealing to her ability to relate her experiences with those of others. Which do you think is going to be the more succesful approach? The first doesn't make any sense at all to me. It is not only theoretically untenable, it is unworkable in practical terms. It is a complete departure from reality in every respect, and she would have every reason to be pissed off about it.
It's the same thing in getting people to support prostitutes. The best way to gather that support would be to talk about prostitutes in ways that people can relate to, not alienate people from them and then demand penance.