STV is not good for Bill Tieleman By: ReeferMadness (87 replies) May 2, 2009 - 1:44amremind wrote:Scotland has By: Wilf Day (May 5 2009 - 12:02am) How much money did the By: Fidel (May 4 2009 - 7:31pm) Quote:I've given the matter By: melovesproles (May 4 2009 - 7:26pm) I have mentioned on one of By: Skinny Dipper (May 4 2009 - 7:03pm) remind wrote:
Wilf, sorry, By: Policywonk (May 4 2009 - 6:52pm) So those Irish stats show By: remind (May 4 2009 - 6:04pm) Thanks Vorshlumpf for the By: Skinny Dipper (May 4 2009 - 5:46pm) Here is a page that has some By: vorshlumpf (May 4 2009 - 4:57pm) I don't know if women were By: Skinny Dipper (May 4 2009 - 12:43pm) Wilf, sorry, but your By: remind (May 4 2009 - 11:13am) Wilf Day wrote:You would By: Catchfire (May 4 2009 - 8:30am) Throughout the referendum By: Skinny Dipper (May 4 2009 - 7:42am) Well Niilo, in fairness, By: ReeferMadness (May 4 2009 - 1:08am) I have yet to hear an By: vorshlumpf (May 3 2009 - 11:44pm) ReeferMadness wrote:I recall By: Wilf Day (May 3 2009 - 11:36pm) Correct me if I'm wrong, By: ReeferMadness (May 3 2009 - 10:25pm) remind wrote:1. Like I said By: Wilf Day (May 3 2009 - 9:42pm) Wilf:
1. Like I said By: remind (May 3 2009 - 8:58pm) Wilf Day wrote:
The weird By: ReeferMadness (May 3 2009 - 8:02pm) remind wrote:Thanks left By: Wilf Day (May 3 2009 - 5:21pm) Thanks left turn, and am By: remind (May 3 2009 - 5:06pm) The weird thing about this By: Wilf Day (May 3 2009 - 5:20pm) remind wrote:
And why would By: Left Turn (May 3 2009 - 4:32pm) And why would some votes By: remind (May 3 2009 - 3:55pm) Tieleman writes that STV By: Baron Visi (May 3 2009 - 3:12pm) Oh yes, let's vote for BC By: remind (May 3 2009 - 11:30am) Skinny Dipper wrote:With By: Wilf Day (May 2 2009 - 9:30pm) ReeferMadness wrote:
Skinny By: Skinny Dipper (May 2 2009 - 7:19pm) ReeferMadness, please check By: Naci_Sey (May 2 2009 - 5:55pm) Skinny Dipper wrote:
First By: ReeferMadness (May 2 2009 - 5:22pm) About a week ago, I went to By: Skinny Dipper (May 2 2009 - 4:50pm) ReeferMadness wrote:Bill By: Wilf Day (May 2 2009 - 1:10pm) I've given the matter some By: ReeferMadness (May 2 2009 - 4:05am) It's not as though Tieleman By: Wilf Day (May 2 2009 - 3:19am) I know what you mean. By: Jacob Two-Two (May 2 2009 - 2:28am)
- Assembly Talker wrote:Again By: Wilf Day (May 12 2009 - 8:51pm)
- Wilf, Again you add the By: Assembly Talker (May 12 2009 - 12:29am)
- I can see how the first STV By: Wilf Day (May 12 2009 - 12:00am)
- He did? By: Assembly Talker (May 11 2009 - 11:31pm)
- he did! By: remind (May 11 2009 - 11:04pm)
- Exactly! Are there any By: Assembly Talker (May 11 2009 - 10:34pm)
- RANGER wrote: Wow! you can By: ReeferMadness (May 11 2009 - 8:58pm)
- http://www.abc.net.au/electio By: RANGER (May 11 2009 - 8:29pm)
- For those still undecided, By: scott (May 11 2009 - 7:23pm)
- Grouped by party. I see in a By: Policywonk (May 11 2009 - 5:20pm)
- A more realistic 28 By: remind (May 11 2009 - 3:20pm)
- RANGER wrote: Wow! you can By: Doug Woodard (May 11 2009 - 2:54pm)
- ReeferMadness wrote: RANGER By: RANGER (May 11 2009 - 12:31pm)
- Wilf Day wrote:Tieleman's By: remind (May 11 2009 - 10:12am)
- The list i found had 26 By: remind (May 11 2009 - 10:01am)
- RANGER wrote: Remind is By: ReeferMadness (May 11 2009 - 1:58am)
- It looks more like By: ReeferMadness (May 11 2009 - 1:59am)
- Tieleman's friend David By: Wilf Day (May 10 2009 - 9:39pm)
- Thank you, wilf. So that By: Brian White (May 10 2009 - 8:56pm)
- Brian White wrote:They write By: Wilf Day (May 10 2009 - 2:05pm)
- They write party affiliation By: Brian White (May 10 2009 - 1:49pm)
- There are 26 resgistered By: remind (May 10 2009 - 1:38pm)
- RANGER wrote: Remind is By: Policywonk (May 10 2009 - 1:17pm)
- remind wrote:Wilf, I would By: Wilf Day (May 10 2009 - 2:46pm)
- Thanks wilf, interesting and By: remind (May 10 2009 - 9:01am)
- remind wrote:Wilf, I would By: Wilf Day (May 10 2009 - 10:26am)
- Well, there was Mary Harney, By: Brian White (May 9 2009 - 11:22pm)
- remind wrote:...There have By: Wilf Day (May 9 2009 - 10:36pm)
- Gee sorry Brian I was just By: RANGER (May 9 2009 - 9:40pm)
- What is your point ranger? By: Brian White (May 9 2009 - 9:22pm)
- Point? They are also not By: remind (May 9 2009 - 7:37pm)
- "Ministers have to spend 20 By: Skinny Dipper (May 9 2009 - 7:06pm)
- RANGER wrote:Brian White By: remind (May 9 2009 - 5:26pm)
- Remind is correct, just By: RANGER (May 9 2009 - 5:12pm)
- Wilf, I would like to see By: remind (May 9 2009 - 5:07pm)
- Brian White wrote: Remind, By: RANGER (May 9 2009 - 4:08pm)
- remind wrote:I think I By: Wilf Day (May 9 2009 - 2:22pm)
- Actually I read your latest By: remind (May 9 2009 - 8:20am)
- remind wrote:let's back up By: Wilf Day (May 9 2009 - 5:27am)
- Wilf Day wrote:Not so. By: remind (May 9 2009 - 5:00am)
- Perhaps I misunderstand it By: remind (May 9 2009 - 3:36am)
- remind wrote: Doug Woodard By: Wilf Day (May 9 2009 - 2:56am)
- Remind, Ireland is not By: Brian White (May 9 2009 - 2:20am)
- No! you either do not By: Brian White (May 9 2009 - 2:08am)
- Brian White wrote:1. STV By: remind (May 9 2009 - 12:28am)
- Doug Woodard wrote:remind By: remind (May 8 2009 - 11:39pm)
- Not sure if this is By: a lonely worker (May 8 2009 - 10:42pm)
- Remind, I will put my By: Brian White (May 6 2009 - 1:26pm)
- remind wrote: 7. Have 5 By: Doug Woodard (May 5 2009 - 10:32pm)
- remind wrote: 3. Huge By: Doug Woodard (May 5 2009 - 10:06pm)
- In 1992, 68.3% of British By: Skinny Dipper (May 5 2009 - 8:56pm)
- Wilf Day wrote: As for urban By: vorshlumpf (May 5 2009 - 2:35am)
I've given the matter some thought an my conclusion is that there are a lot of 'true believers' that simply aren't democrats anymore. They've seen too many of the 'wrong type' of governments elected and have come to the conclusion that people are generally ignorant, unintelligent, immoral, apathetic or some combination of all four. They believe they are saving the peopel from themselves. The power brokers know best and a patina of democracy will suffice to keep people content. I have a certain level of sympathy for their lack of faith in people because there are an awful lot of uninformed, apathetic people out there. Fundamentally, though, I believe that democracy cannot be a spectator sport. If it is, it will wither away.
I should qualify all of this by saying I don't know Bill Tieleman so I'm not applying this characterization to him personally. Rather, this is an impression I'm getting from reading stuff by and talking to a lot of different people. His actions do seem to fit the profile, though.
I firmly believe that STV is right for BC. We're an independent-minded lot and the ability to vote past and through parties meshes well with an independent view.
I really, believe, though, that if BC-STV goes down, it could jeopardize PR movements across Canada for some time to come. And that would be tragic. PR is very important to democracy in BC but I think that Canada needs PR to survive. FPTP accentuates regionalism and favours region-centric parties. The Bloc Quebecois gets way more seats than it would under PR. How long will it be until another province-centred party appears, maybe in Alberta? If that happened BC probably wouldn't be far behind.