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BTW, SSC - that 'anti-Israel group' you spoke of was a group of Canadian Jews expressing their disapproval of Israeli oppression. And they were bullied, threatened, and shouted down. Did you approve?
That addresses the bathwater, but what about the baby?
Also, what makes better press: marching around outside MEC with signs that say "MEC = Global Collaborator With Apartheid", or marching around a display of backpacks in aisle 4?
To trolls Snert and SSC: get bent. You are neither funny, nor useful.
I didn't think snert was trolling. His point makes sense to me.
Really LTJ? Which 'point' of Snert's makes 'sense'? The one where he calls boycotting Israel counter-productive or the one where he ridicules public activism to effect social change?
"promoters of Israeli fascism" Who knew? First, apartheid and now fascism. What's the next epithet?
Aren't words like "oppression" and "violation of human rights" strong enough?
From an historical point of view it's a pretty hard case to make that the Israeli government is fascistic.
Catchfire: Your suggestion makes good sense, and I agree with it. But I also expect that many boycott supporters would find only boycotting the actual products to be unsatisfying. My facetious response wasn't actually aimed at you.
Catchfire - His sarcasm slipped by me. Kudos on your highly developed troll-dar.
Not unique, just historically anachronistic.
How so?
Although you can examine it's origins, fascism was essentially an inter-war phenomenon and wartime phenomenon.
Woolf's European Fascism is a good overview of how it manifested itself differently in diverse European states.
My appreciation to you as well, for actually agreeing with that sarcasm.
Of course it's not sufficient to simply boycott the Israeli products! How would that punish non-Israeli suppliers? More importantly, how would it punish MEC??
If the real audience for the boycott were Israel, Catchfire's suggestion would make perfect sense. Israel isn't going to me MORE motivated to change its policies if people also end up boycotting goods made in Canada or Mexico or Germany. All that should be needed would be a boycott of Israeli products.
But hey, let's cast the net wider than necessary, intentionally! And let's punish MEC and all of its suppliers for so much as sharing shelf space with an Israeli (ptui!) product!
I think I will look for some summer gear in my MEC catalogue tonight - thank you for the inspiriation
One can choose to boycott just the made in Israel products, and from what I can tell they are primarily seamless undies. But...I think there is a larger issue here of the scope corporate social responsibility should take, and the processes that MEC has for democratic participation of its membership in its operations. In my opinion, the approach of MEC is inadequate in both areas, and quite frankly, resembles what I would expect from your average large corporation.
Personally, I think there should be a push to create a system of proxy voting so that the membership can actually participate in the AGM in a more meaningful way, and then the direction of the corporation should follow the expressed wishes of its membership.
If they were, indeed, bullied and threatened, then no, of course I don't. Just as I hope you would not "approve" of, for example, pro-Palestinian demosntrators assaulting and harassing people trying to hear Netenyahu give a speech at Concordia. I think it's quite possible to disagree and remain civil or at elast not descened into that kind of shit.
Given the comments here by MEC staff, and Israelis apologists, nd how the AGM went, I would say a total boycott is necessary.
I'm trying to understand the issue here. MEC gets some of its products from Israeli owned companies. And? Do you know that these companies are engaging in unethical behaviour? Are they direct contributors to the oppression of Palestinians? If they were to go out of business and workers lost their jobs (Jews and Palestinians alike, I'd imagine), would the world be a better place? Given what I've heard about MEC's policies with regards to suppliers, they are careful to ensure ethical treatment of workers, environmental stewardship, etc. But buying backpacks from a company based in a country with policies we don't like is unethical? Again, why single out Israel? Would you buy a backpack made in China? Made in America? What's the obsession with israel?
MEC has a strong history of corporate citizenship in the areas of supply-side labour standards and environmental issues. Corporations like MEC have helped demonstrate that labour standards can be respected within a robust business model, albeit a cooperative model. MEC also has a history of being a member-driven organization.
Over the recent years MEC has shifted to being essentially a large corporate retail outfit not unlike any other large corporation that sources its products from around the world. Notions of what ought to constitute corporate social responsibility have also changed, such that respect for labour standards can now be considered a bare minimum; this change seems to escape MEC's director for ethical sourcing. The current stance of MEC is identical to that of large trans-national corporations, particularly mining corporations, who argue that respect for labour standards is sufficient. These corporations work very hard to prevent stakeholders from having a voice that seeks to enlargen this scope - apparently this is MEC's approach also, and this is very, very sad.
Unlike about 99.99% of retail organizations, MEC has a co-op/membership model that encourages involvement, and provides members opportunities to influence the organization. But because that didn't result in what you want, now an all-out boycott is "necessary"? Well, THAT should teach them not to listen to their members, eh? I mean, what kind of corrupt, Israel-lovin' co-op would go with what the majority of votes support??
Democracy is great, when it gives you what you hope for.
Leaving aside my scepticism about how much you are actually trying "to understand the issue here", one of the issues is that MEC put its entire corporate weight behind squashing a proposed member resolution at the AGM. They did so, not because they think it singles out Israel, but because they do not want to be concerned with the rights of any stakeholders outside of their concerns for supply-side labour issues, and domestic environmental concerns. MEC wants to define ethical sourcing in a very narrow sense, such that it can operate anywhere in the world, regardless of whether current conceptions of corporate social responsibility are broader than this narrow conception. MEC, like all good trans-national corporations, is doing their part to narrow the scope of issues that are open for debate.
I'm not going to touch your comments regarding the morality, efficacy, etc. of a boycott, since I think this is pretty much just baiting. I would direct you to past boycotts of certain countries, and let you do your education on your own.
I don't think that supporters of apartheid, oppression and fascism should be assaulted necessarily, but they certainly should be protested, and perhaps even 'harassed'. One is only as civil possible under the circumstances...
Actually, in many respects, your average public corporation is more accountable to its membership than MEC has become. Corporations are required to have a system of proxy voting to allow their shareholders to vote, and propose, resolutions at the AGM. MEC's approach, while consistent with its local Vancouver upbringing, does not permit, or encourage, member involvement in the AGM. The vast majority of its members have no say in its operations.
What percentage of its members do you think MEC actually heard from on this issue?
Well, whether MEC actually "put its entire corporate weight" behind squashing a member resolution is pretty far from being clearly established. It seems that there was a vote and the side you were on lost. It happens in democracy. I don't like that Stephen Harper won the last election but I accept the results.
Look, I'm all for boycotting companies that engage in unethical behaviour - whether with regards to treatment of workers, environmental degradation, huma rights abuses, etc. I'm not always successful at it but I do my best. But from what I can tell, nothing has been established about this company other than the fact that they are Israeli-owned, which in and of itself is not "unethical". If they're sold at MEC, presumably they ahve good labour standards, etc. They just happen to be based in a country with objectionable policies...which doesn't say much since pretty much every damn country has policies we can all oppose. This is about trying to punish a company because of the nationality of its owners. I'd much rather buy a backpack from MEC, made in Israel by workers who get a fair wage and good conditions than to buy something made in a sweatshop by young children getting paid 50 cents an hour.
Are you claiming Israel isn't continuously at war?
Hardy, har har, LTJ.
I'm more interested in how Remind is defining "Israeli Apologist"
Without knowing how many members showed up, and how many members there are overall, I really couldn't say. I'm TOTALLY willing to bet, though, that if whoever showed up voted to boycott, you'd be fine with it, whether it was 10,000 votes or 10. Can you really tell me, knowing that God is listening, that if the vote were in favour of boycott, you would be the one to say "Wait a minute! How many people actually showed up, and is this really representative of the beliefs of ALL members???"
Exactly. That, not some co-ordinated campaign to deny the "boycott" side their voice, is what's going on here.
So you've given up on claiming that there is nothing resembling fascism at work in Israel?
...guess my work is done here.
To suggest that the government of Israel is fascist is in line with American conservatives calling Canada Socialist. Pure hyperbole.
Really?