BC May 12, 2009 Election Discussion (Cont'd)
The Tyee raised $25,000 online for investigative reporting on this May 12, 2009 BC election with some excellent results.
Guide to Tyee Election Reporting
BC Rail trust fund hiding its losses: BC Liberals created a $185 million trust fund to help northern BC with some proceeds from the BC rail sale, but shifted the funds to riskier investments that likely lost $25 million and, as Will McMartin reported, trustees are breaking the law by not revealing that information before the election. A professor of business ethics agrees it looks bad and the results should be released immediately. Massive C02 emitter no one else noticed: As the parties battled over climate change policy, Geoff Dembicki discovered a massive gas plant slated for BC's northeast had quietly changed its pledge to sequester its C02 emissions, and now planned to vent enough gas to raise the province's entire emissions by three per cent. The BC Liberals offered no comment. BC Liberals welfare to jobs story a myth: Premier Campbell campaigned on the slogan that the best social program is a job, but Andrew MacLeod pried loose the government's own report showing the BC Liberals' revamped welfare-to-work program hasn't delivered.Ballooning payments to privatizers: The BC Liberals bragged that privatizing health record keeping would save money, but Andrew MacLeod discovered government payments to contractor Maximus have ballooned over 50 per cent, and neither the company or the government will give the specifics why.
Colleen Kimmett flagged very early the resulting divisions in the environmental community with her story BC's Clashing Shades of Green. Her theme was more than borne out as B.C.'s enviro groups boldly entered the political fray, siding with one party or another. We pulled the curtain back to show that Suzuki Foundation's chairman is a proud Liberal and that when high profile activist Tzeporah Berman declared she was quitting the NDP she wasn't actually a member. As enviro groups continued to tear at each other, we invited UVic's Michael M'Gonigle, a founder of Greenpeace International, to put it all in perspective. His two essays on "powering down" instead of revving up river energy projects and looking "beyond the carbon tax" received huge traffic and viralled all over the province and beyond.
Job Wave and associate programs for welfare to work, were never designed to work. They were designed to syphon off tax payer money to private enterprises, and CoC's and other orgs who advertised the programs. Plus in the minor role of tax payer money being doled out, businesses got 3 months of partial wage subsidy, which caused revolving doors employees.
And another guarantee that should go with that is that the NDP will continue to spin their wheels, alienating people who should be voting for them while failing to woo voters who view them with a deeply rooted prejudice. If the goal is to peel off BC Liberal voters and get them to vote for the BC NDP then I would recommend a name change. Maybe the 'Conservative Democratic Alliance'...
'If only we had a better communicator' doesn't really stack up either. James hasn't been that bad at getting the BC NDP message out, everyone says she won the debate and she comes off as much more human and likeable than the creep we call Premier. She has gone out of her way to suck up to Canwest and bashed her own candidates and the environmental movement but I'm not sure that can solely be blamed on 'her' communication skills, I think deliberate 'strategic' decisions by the BC NDP came into play there.
The BC NDP has muddied the waters on who is left and who is right, who is progressive and environmental and who is not, and I think that had more to do with the belief Stockholm articulated that they needed to appeal to rightwing BC Liberal voters than Carol James's communication skills. The net result will probably be that the BC NDP has reduced their own numbers and not the BC Liberals at all.
She did not bash the environmental movement, no matter how many times you repeat it, it is not factual, she said she was going to ignore the pretend environmental movement (paraphrased). Which is where I guess you have decided to put yourself. Nor have the BCNDP muddied the waters inrespect to who is progessive and who isn't and who isn't environmentalists adnd who is, but the Green Party sure as hell has supporting Gordo and their Reform platform.
All right then, let's focus on really solving climate change -- and why Berman and her allies are dead wrong.
See this thread too
From this thread that you appear again to want to try and completely ignore now it is closed:
The list for Endorsing Organizations,Groups and Representatives is:
A-Line Communications (Vancouver, BC)
Apple Tree Productions Inc
BC Citizens for Public Power
BC Committee for Human Rights in the Philippines (Vancouver, BC)
BC Federation of Retired Union Members
BC Government and Service Employees' Union (BCGEU)
BC Guardians
BC Peace & Global Educators, PAGE
BC Teachers' Federation (BCTF)
Blewett Conservation Society (Nelson, BC)
Burke Mountain Naturalists (Coquitlam, BC)
Canadian Office & Professional Employees Union 378 (COPE 378)
Canadian Union of Public Employees BC (CUPE BC)
Cariboo Chilcotin Conservation Society (Williams Lake, BC)
Citizens Against Urban Sprawl Society (Mission, BC)
Citizens United to Save the Peace (Fort St. John, BC)
Community Action Coalition of Burnaby (Burnaby, BC)
Comuna of Consejo Indigena Popular de Oaxaca (CIPO) in Vancouver
Councillor Andrea Reimer, City of Vancouver
Councillor David Cadman, City of Vancouver
Councillor Karen Rockwell, City of Port Moody
Councillor Paul McDonnell, City of Burnaby
Councillor Pietro Calendino, City of Burnaby
Councillor Sav Dhaliwal, City of Burnaby
Councillor Tom Duncan, City of Duncan
Council of Canadians
Council of Senior Citizens Organizations
Council of Senior Citizens Organizations (Sunshine Coast Branch)
Friends of Bute Inlet (Discovery Islands, BC)
Friends of Eagle River (Powell River, BC)
Golden Branch of Wildsight (Golden, BC)
Greater Victoria Water Watch Coalition (Victoria, BC)
Impact on Communities Coalition (Vancouver, BC)
Indigenous Action Movement (Vancouver, Coast Salish Territory)
Interfaith Summer Institute for Justice, Peace and Social Movements
(Burnaby, BC)
Kelowna Citizens for Public Power (Kelowna, BC)
Kelowna KAIROS (Kelowna, BC)
Malaspina Communities for Public Power (Powell River, BC)
Mothers Against Power Poles (Delta, BC)
New Media B.C.
North Columbia Environmental Society (Revelstoke, BC)
Parksville/Qualicum KAIROS (Parksville, BC)
Pitt Polder Preservation Society (Maple Ridge BC)
Purcell Alliance for Wilderness (Argenta, BC)
Salmon Arm KAIROS Committee (Salmon Arm, BC)
Save Our Rivers Society
Secwepemc Native Youth Movement (unceded Secwepemc Territories)
Seniors For News On The Bright Side (Vancouver, BC)
Shuswap Environmental Action Society (Chase, BC)
Social Justice Group, St. James Anglican Church (Vancouver, BC)
Society Targeting Overuse of Pesticides (Victoria, BC)
South Asian Network for Secularism and Democracy (Burnaby, BC)
Streams of Justice (Vancouver, BC)
Toxic Free Canada
Union of BC Indian Chiefs
Victoria Raging Grannies (Victoria, BC)
Watershed Watch Salmon Society (Port Coquitlam, BC)
Western Canada Wilderness Committee
Women Elders in Action (Vancouver, BC)
Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (Vancouver, BC)
2010 Watch (Vancouver, BC)
Unity in Opposition to Private Power Projects
I'm sorry to break the news to you, but the only way that a progressive government will EVER win in BC is if the proportion of voters supporting the Socred/Reform/Conservative/Liberal/Alliance party can be brought down to significant below the 46-47% they seem likely to get in this election. I suppose that if you are on the far left, it is distasteful to come to grips with the fact that the NDP has to either attract that sliver of soft BC Liberal voters or never win another election. There is no point in trying to win over NDP/Communist party swing voters - there simply aren't enough of those people to win an election, you have to attract swing voters in the centre. Sorry but that;'s the way it is.
Isn't there supposed to be a huge pool of far-left non-voters, who would be motivated to get out and vote if only the NDP moved further to the left? I think I heard that somewhere...
Or, obviously, the rightwing vote has to split significantly.
I don't think the numbers of far-left non-voters would do it. But I'm quite certain there are enough non-voters to make the difference. When every vote counts, more people vote; typically 8% or so more.
In my experience conservative voters are quite civic-minded; they turn out and do their civic duty even in safe conservative seats. That's why municipal elections, with low turnouts, so often elect conservatives.
Young people, working people, poor people, and others with marginal attachment to the electoral process are more likely to say "why bother voting." And more often than not, they are correct.
A fair, proportional, voting system would result in a lot more voters voting.
And a system like BC-STV would even count Green Party votes, most often by counting their second choices.
Sorry Wilf, but your post is internally inconsistent. On the one hand, "civic-minded" conservative voters turn out and (surprise!) conservatives get elected. Then you say that it is "correct" for young/working/poor people to say "why bother voting". Seems to me your own example belies that premise and creates a self-fulfilling prophecy - conservatives get elected because people more likely to vote for progressive candidates don't bother voting. Of course, if those people actually bothered to vote, the result might not be preordained. The only way your vote "doesn't count" is if you don't show up. Maybe if some of these progressive-leaning voters were a bit more "civic-minded", as opposed to (with apologies to Aaron Sorkin) "so howl-at-the-moon, lazy-ass stupid that they can't even be bothered to raise their hands" we might elect more progressive candidates.
I apologize if my comments sound harsh, but I really have no time for the excuses that are trotted out for people who don't vote and then complain that they're "disenfranchised" and "marginalized": "I voted but my candidate didn't win! My vote didn't count! Boo hoo, I feel so disengaged from the political process! I'm just going to stay home and play XBox next time - that'll show 'em!"
Meanwhile, when the BC NDP won two byelections in November, the excuse from the BC Liberals was that they lost because the turn out was so low and their people stayed home!
Young people, working people, and poor people form the great majority of the voters - I mean people who do vote, not just those eligible to vote - in almost every consittuency.
I mean how many middle-aged or old, non-working, aflluent people are there anyway?
Another manifestation of the left mindset that if you vote Liberal or Conservative you can't really be young, a worker, or poor.
Na, they do not sound harsh, and I agree that those whining their vote did not count and are thus are marginalized or disenfranchised, need to get a freaking grip on reality.
I have stayed at home, though not because of falsely perceived disengagement, and I found out how counter productive it was to myself.
Young voters are thinking
http://www.miss604.com/2009/05/candidate-interview-with-carole-james.htm...
She does have a point.
James makes appeal to environmentalists
Whatever you think of the carbon tax, she says on the campaign's last day, think of parks, rivers and offshore oilThat is too ff, Sterk slams James for trying to poach Green Party voters, while the Green Party has poached most of the BCNDP's long held activities, actions, and platforms in order to try and poach NDP votes. Never doubt the hypocrisy of Reformatories, I guess.
Well, just went and voted, and my goodness there was a line up out the door, in this small community, and this was before 8:15 and parents were in there registering with their children who are now 18 and over and who are first time voters even.
And interestingly, people who had just finished voting were actually outside asking others coming out, if they too had just voted NDP, in fact I did not see anyone who didn't join the group outside. And then the "get rid of Gordo" rants started, and some of these were people I thought for sure would be voting BC Liberal, or even Conservative. I hope this scenario is being played out across the province. Even more interesting were the rants against Gordo that I had not eve heard about.
"Sterk slams James for trying to poach Green Party voters"
Sterk is so weak and ineffectual that I thank that being "slammed" by her is like being hit over the head with a feather duster!
I don't know Stockholm. Some people may have serious allergies and a feather duster might put them in hospital. But I guess we'll see how toxic the duster is tonight won't we?
Then there is the amazing power of propaganda. Maybe I live too far away to understand how BC could even contemplate returning Campbell to power.
BC people are fed a constant diet of anti-democracy propaganda screed form the msm media outlets.
If Ontarians were willing to re-elect Mike Harris in 1999 after the unspeakable horrors he was responsible for and after the forced amalgamations, the gutting of health and education, the days of action etc....then anything is possible. Americans re-elected Bush in 2004 too!
I don't like to carp about the press or the media being unfair, but in BC it really is an extreme case. At least when it comes to national politics or Ontario politics there is SOME variance in what the media feeds us - what with the Toronto Star or the Globe or the CBC etc...it may not be much but at least it isn't liek BC where the media 100% monolithically owned by Canwest and essentially works as a virtual arm of the BC Liberal party.
Correction - Bush was not re-elected. In order to be re-elected, you have to have been elected the first time.
I was surprised, a little, by the difference between the MSM propaganda in Manitoba and the MSM propaganda in BC. There is a difference; the very right wing views in much of the corporate media on Vancouver Island, e.g., is in jarring contrast to the views of many of the people that live here. The class warfare is more advanced here, and the boss class has many more victories under their well-fed belts than do working people.
Normally when the class warfare is more advanced people are more aware of it and people are less likely to identify with those they have a common interest with- this should worry the elites not make them safer.
Often we have class oppression without a class war and people become co-opted by the propaganda.
Nbeltov, here in BC it has gone past a state of simple propaganda, it is nothing more than blatent anti-democratic actions, It is pretty damn bad that I have to listen to Alberta CTV to get a more balanced view of what is going on.
People here are more than co-opted by propaganda, and then there is the whacked out fundamentalist religious vote that is fiull of propaganda from their churches. However those churches are moving into NGO areas so their congregations are being employed, while others are not.
That's a little garbled, Sean. I think people can be more aware of class conflict without being offered any political leadership to make sense of it and thereby resist further attacks. Without fighting leadership people become demoralized and inactive.
This election is an opportunity for stirring the pot and may succeed in raising awareness of the need for a fightback. If the NDP wins then I see a mixed bag in the new regime. I would expect James to move further to the right once in Government. If the Liberals win, then I see more assaults and MAYBE more of a fightback in response. The data on voter turnout, and on the STV referendum, should be interesting.
Harvey Oberfeld, a retired BC journalist, noted that there is a chance that Campbell may lose his own seat. Now that would be satisfying.
Where I am there is a lot of militarized thinking. I miss the Winnipeg Peace Walk. Perhaps I should start my own out here.
Oh would that be sweet!
Is it too early to start drinking yet?
Have their been any individual riding polls of the high-profile races?
I'll have my premier on Toast Please as I ate my problems for breakfast and I though he would do fine for lunch. Which makes me think of the kids in my neighborhood who are either eating garbage, expired food or going with out. As Children Cry, "Please Mr. Campbell don't take our teachers," our futures, our dreams or the food out of our mouths as they posted their crayon type posters in my neighborhood for us all to see. It was sad for me as I looked back from on my bike and seen the poor little signs all for the worse and they had been rained on. And its cuts like a knife to their futures which is the future of BC and how important is that? As important as you want it to be so chop, chop lets go Axe those Liberals.
He is not my premier so do not need him on my toast. I'd be satisfied if he were toast.
I don't thinkgarbled - although perhaps we just disagree.
I think there is a correlation between the degree people see issues as a class conflict and the degree to which they identify with people of the same situation and recognize those issues in policy. This is fairly basic from Marx's conflict theory. I don't accept that in BC there is not a recognizable difference between the NDP and Liberals. The all parties are the same canard is one fed by selective individual policy comparisons but it does not hold up when whole programs are compared. The more people see that those who are of radically different means have little in common with them and lack common interest, the less they will identify with the MSM tripe that what is good for the capitalist elite is also good for them. Once they do this they can recognize in NDP social policy enough differences -- even without any presumptions of perfection-- to justify not voting for the Liberals. That this has not happened is a symptom of the fact that we are not there yet and people still buy the crap.
I also think that this like of identification by ordinary people of the party that has the greatest shared interests with them also delays that party's development as we are less able to focus on individual issues the party has to get right and is not there yet while we fight obvious political ideology wars with people supporting those who keep them down.