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cuz itz seen as blacc music a li? because ppl already have an image of a angry violent blacc male who is also a rapist and this feeds into that and they want to continue that or are manipulted into continuing that thru corpoate media
Wot R_P says. I can't think of any other reason, given how sustained the hype about hip hop has been. You don't have to scratch very hard to come up with sh*t from virtually every other genre like you say Michelle, and yet the hype is missing.
Hmm. I was looking for some Bell Hooks on this issue, but the only video version I found had no sound. Perhaps later, but in the meantime, there is this:
I am a man. Black masculinity in America
You know that song, "Fuck the Police"? It's one of my favorite songs. I have no idea whether it's "commercial" or not. I think the version I have is done by Public Enemy, although I know it's an NWA song.
Anyhow, I love that song. And I love it despite the fact that it has a homophobic line in it that make me cringe when it comes up. It goes, "I don't know if they're fags or what...knock a nigga down, grab on his nuts..." etc. Not to mention that I can't even sing along with the song because the word "nigga" or "nigger" is used repeatedly in the song. :)
I could write off the whole song - and heck, the whole group and all rap groups that have covered it - for putting a line like that in the song. But what I'm hearing in that song is a cry of anger, of fightback against police racism, and a way of saying, in your fucking face, we're not putting up with it anymore, and we're going to start fighting back - violently if necessary, since the cops are violent with us.
Do I agree with gun violence? Do I agree with calling people "fags" as an insult? No, I don't. But again, I think that song reflects our broader culture, where a lot of people (and not just young, black people) use "fag" as an insult, especially a decade and a half ago, when that song was made. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it okay. But it also doesn't mean completely writing off the overall message of the song, which is an urban protest song that is trying to get across the rage, frustration, and injustice that the people are feeling.
P.S. I also think it's interesting that when that song made headlines with the controversy of it, the controversy was over the lines that supposedly advocated killing cops as a way of fighting back against police racism. No one said shit about the homophobic line, because that was socially acceptable to most people who were outraged by the song, including cops, and white, middle class North America.
The two do not compare. I can't remember who said it, maybe Chuck D? they said hip hop is black people's CNN. Hip hop is a lot more than music, for a large community. The same thing cannot be said for heavy metal.
eta: P.S. I am RP.
exactly Hiphop is our voice cuz it wayy bigger
Sorry, RP. We'll need a new abbreviation maybe Rex Pun.
Just preference but I'll take Jazz as my preferred genre every day of the week.
RP, I'm not sure I agree. Heavy metal could be considered to be one of the voices of the white working class/underclass. Heavy metal could be considered to be white class rage, rebellion, and anger, as well as a reflection of culture, leisure, relationships, etc.
but it aint associated with minorities esp blacc ppl the way hiphop is mainly because anything not labeled so is considered white cuz it the "norm. Like from my POV the only white ppl I see are the rich or middle class ones so I dont even know those ones u know aint gonna lie.
and yo this is tru
"our children are in need, women head the home, wus goin on? the rich get rich, the poor get sicc, n everybodyz singin u can make it dont quit"
I don't agree- for many working class or impoverished white youth Metal plays the same role.
I agree with the comments that hip hop gets unfairly singled out - however I still object to being called a 'white supremist and racist' for acknowledging that there are massive problems within its message and not giving it a pass just as I wouldn't give any others a pass either for the same reason.
it aint white supremist or racist to call it out it is to say the entire type of music aint shit.
You said though that you dismiss it. Do you dismiss its cultural significance to large community? Do you dismiss the revolutionary political message behind much of it? Take for instance the classic "Bodycount" by Ice-T:
I'd like to believe heavy metal is something approaching the White equivalent of hip hop. Back in the day I enjoyed it a lot, though its totally sexist overtones drove me stone crazed even when i was 13. My problem is its almost total lack of analysis. Granted I'm behind the times. But KISS, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, GnR, Crue and a host of lesser known groups never had anything overt or comprehensible to say about social struggle, from what I could tell. It seemed like shock jock more than anger, and it was utterly depoliticised, save maybe for Metallica.
I think some of the in your face anger fit well with the dead end jobs and shitty housing and home situations some of my fellow JHS inmates had going on. But I think it was also telling that the working class kids who wanted to make some kind of meaningful statement turned to punk. DOA was the angry White band of choice and all the punkers were involved in anti poverty, anti war/ nuke work.
When I had the chance to live on a "reservation" I thot it was telling the kids turned to hip hop, graffitti and basketball. Across the street (literally) on the White side of town it was metal and country. Hip hop was the first genre I stumbled across that mixed angry, good beats, and politics.
I do agree with all this, but there's never been anything street level or grass roots about metal, or at least not on an appreciable scale. Punk would probably be the equivalent to hip hop, insofar as it occupies that ground level area, playing all ages shows in warehouses, bands making their own tapes and CDs, releasing zines, singing about political and local issues, etc. Part of the equation is the number of people doing things like that, I think of a small sized city having maybe a half-dozen "metal" bands, but all they're doing is covers.
And punk sure is not free of misogyny/racism/heterosexism, notwithstanding that much of it is explicitly not so.
I agree with Michelle. If you have any question about Metal being more than music for a large community watch the movie Metal: A Headbangers Journey. And it is assossiated with classism.
Are your kidding me? You are showing your lack of knowledge with Metal, really watch the movie. Yes I am aware of the misogyny/racism/heterosexism that exists in all Metal as well.
Well, it's true that heavy metal doesn't all have "great social and political import", to paraphrase Janis Joplin. But some of it does. And then again, neither does all of hip hop and rap. Reflecting culture as opposed to commenting on it is also a statement. And listening to heavy metal (which, for a lot of kids, is a big middle finger and eff you to people who wrinkle their noses and pompously pronounce that they much prefer the more civilized classical and jazz music to metal and hip-hop) is in itself a protest, even if the song itself isn't particularly political. And I remember that most of the kids in school who listened to metal were a) white (because almost all the kids at my high school were), and b) working class, and c) rebelling against what they considered the "nice, proper" conformity we were supposed to subscribe to in order to become well-adjusted adults.
So I think it IS comparable to hip hop in that way. And I think that R_P's distinction between hip-hop and shit-hop (love it!) is also a distinction that can be made with other types of music too, including metal, and punk, and rock, and folk, and yes, even classical and jazz music when they get co-opted, commercialized, and dumbed down.
Well I have to admit that April Wine came on the radio the other day and I found myself humming along. I was shocked at myself having rebelled exactly against that stuff back in the day.
The thing about music is it is all shit except the stuff you like.
Hey, April Wine could really rock when they wanted to - and they made serious use of cowbell.
But I do have to admit they had some of the sappiest ballads around. I recall the chicks in the 'burbs liking them, though.
Well it is true there is no such think as too much cowbell!
I find it a bit comical that Rabble.ca has this thread flagged as an Anti-racism Initiative. The opening post of this thread is a big statement of anti-white racism. Yes, it is true. White people don't have the market for racism cornered.
I'm a white male. I listen to lots of music but mostly ranging in the metal and grunge areas. I don't listen to hip hop. I "dismiss it outright" because I don't like it not because I'm a white supremist. I also "dismiss" polka without any feelings of supremacy over or hatred for Germans and Austrians.
Uh, yeah. No such thing as "anti-white racism" in a white supremacist society (hint: that's ours!).
Right on, Slumberjack. I'll get me to the back of my CD collection, thanks!
Any discussion of social reaction to hip-hop has to include a look at racism... I don't think there's any getting around that and nor should there be. Personal taste is another matter but it isn't unrelated....
Anti-white racism is an oxymoron now and for the forseeable future; see also anti-male sexism and anti-straight discrimination in the same deck o well-worn cards.
Well, but it's heartening that it took until the 83rd post for "reverse racism" to come up. I think that's progress! :)
LOL michelle
And here Michelle I thought the fact that a white, male, old, cracker could know so much about the history of hip hop was a sign of some sort of progress.
did u really just join to say this? u dont get it n proly never will. Hope to see u on the enemyz side on the battlefield then im not even gonna go off on u aint no point.
No, I guess I won't ever get it.