babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
The "Waffle" needs to be revived within the NDP
July 16, 2009 - 7:15am
I am not very familiar with the Waffle movement but it seems that something similiar is required for the NDP. I know there is a socialist caucus, isn't there, but that does not seem to have the same clout.
I know mainstreet NDPers probably cringe at the thought, but wasn't the NDP quite popular when the Waffle was around. And if there was a very strong pressure group from the left, it might even help the party gain credibility with the middle-of-the-road voter during elections.
You know, Layton could say look at those crazy lefties, better vote NDP. 
nope because if jack keeps going the way he is the 21st century waffle will revive all on its own
I thought that is what I said.
Well, it all depends on what your goals are but honestly, I don't see it being that much of a benefit to left movements. Socialist Caucus is getting nowhere fast and the Alan Woods fanboys at Fightback/IMT are an even bigger joke. I think the notion that we can capture the NDP and use it in the stuggle against capitalism is quite frankly absurd.
It's not all bad within the NDP, and realistically politically what alternatives does the left have?
Lavigne, Layton, etc. just need some seriously organized pressure from the left to make the correct political policy choices .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waffle
With all due respect, the thread title is a bit flaky. The NDP didn't create the Waffle - so it can't "revive" it. The NDP destroyed the Waffle, because various middle class leaders and trade union bosses felt threatened by its attractive power for (especially) the youth. The crushing of the Waffle was one reason I left the NDP in those days, although I was never a Waffle member, but not the only reason.
Anyway, it makes no sense to have an oppositional formation within a party like the NDP. Its history shows that it will not tolerate organized dissent. Its conventions show that policy isn't made by the members. I still believe people should speak up for what's right, whether from inside or outside, and influence the NDP to do the right thing. But this "caucus" thing is a solid waste of time and an illusion.
Wasn't Ed Broadbent one of the first people to be involved in the waffle and is also credited with having first coined the phrase "waffle"? (outside of the Belgian context)
Lots of former Wafflers also went on to take leadership roles in the party, including in the caucus. I think it was more of a legend in the minds of the academics who started it, and I don't think it ever achieved the kind of mass appeal people think it did, but it did serve a purpose in helping to further democratizing the party. I remember attending a convention in the 1980s when I was handed the authorized list of people to vote for. They sure don't try that anymore.
Ya well, that is why I put the wiki link up, so that people could read up on what it actually was.
The lack of support by the general public of the "waffle" movement, indicates just how marginal far/extreme left thought was back then, and it is even more so in today's world. And BTW, I am not ascribing correctness or wrongness, to people's opinions in the majority, just stating a fact.
The more the NDP continues on its current path of approaching the centre for electoral purposes, obsessing over media hits, and allowing its spin doctors determine policy, the closer we will all come to a waffle 2.0.
As an NDP activist in QC -an oftentimes more radical section of the NDP- I can see firsthand the disappointment and exasperation of its activists.
If the NDP wants to 'replace' the Liberals by being a hair to the left of them, and/or if the NDP continues to crush dissidence in its party, why does the NDP bother to exist? What would Tommy say?
The Waffle proclaimed Québec's right to self-determination - a view that was taboo in the party in those days. They preached against economic and political integration with the U.S. And they used the word "socialism" as if they meant it. It's awfully nice to hear some people refer to these views as "far left" or "extreme left". All I know is that the party youth was inspired by them. It's taken many years and lots of agony to bring those ideas back to the fore, and the party's not there yet.
As a waffle member, I thought of it first as a nationalist movement (of the left wing of the NDP). That is how both Laxer and Watkins thought of it.
Ironically, it is a market fancier by the name of Jeff Rubin whose peak oil thesis bets on a return of industrial activity in this country as it becomes too expensive to fuel the transportation systems that make globalization possible.
So I would think that this would be an excellent time to renew the nationalism of the Waffle group. Should be very popular this time out.
Why unionist, it was you yourself who stated you were extreme, and I thought; "hmm...okay then, at least we have a benchmark now for who the extreme left are" ;)
BTW, I was one of those NDP youth!
Wish I could afford to go to Halifax next month and help hold their toes to the growing nationalist flame.
I was active in the Saskatchewan Waffle. For an excellent backgrounder on the Waffle in Saskatchewan and efforts to change the NDP, read...
http://www.nextyearcountry.ca/nyclast.all.pdf
The PARTY handed out that list? Who was considered "unauthorized"?
You are correct unionist, I could have worded the title a bit more accurately such as:
The "Waffle" needs to be revived within the NDP. But what's done is done.
Slates still get handed out at Ontario Provincial Conventions.
Wow, do I ever remember Next Year Country! Thanks for the memories, dtaylor.
The NDP doesn't need a "waffle", it needs to get angry.
That sort of describes the waffle folks back in '72.
Sigh. And it's worked so well for them up to now ...
Well the NDP definitely need a name change in Ontario. Nothing personal, but the NDP there is like death boiled over.
Well, maybe if the NDP just started SERVING free waffles. Who wouldn't like a party like that?
If the NDP revives the waffle, would it be possible to revive David Lewis? It sure took guts to stand up to them.
In the first federal election held after the Waffle was "stood up to", the NDP fell from 31 seats to 16. David Lewis lost his own seat.
Right after that, the BC NDP government lost power. Two years later, the same thing happened in Manitoba.
Why do you still think the defeat of the Waffle was a GOOD thing?
Thanks Ken. I didn;t know that and all the more reason to rekindle the "Waffle" flame, but for goodness sake NDPers, get a marketing guru to choice a more palatable name for North American audiences. The socialist causus. WTF
Sure, why not? I voted for Mel Hurtig's National party back in the 90s, because by then the Nude Ems had already abandoned the left-nationalist stance that had made them worth voting for.
Actually, you're wrong, the Waffle was expelled early in 1972 and the NDP went on to go from 22 seats to 31. In 1974, the remnants of waffle tried to form a party called Movement for an Independent Socialist Canada (and I thought CCRAP was a bad acronym, whoever heard of a party called MISC?). They got about 500 votes in the whole country and then sank without a trace.
Its probably fair to say that the Waffle was to the NDP like what those crackpots in the Militant Tendency were to the British Labour Party.
Most likely because they chose a bad name for the split party. Nevertheless, it is imperative for workers to form a "political party, distinct from and opposed to all parties of the propertied classes." How about the Socialist Left Party, taking cues from the SP-USA, the PSUV in Venezuela, Die Linke in Germany, the Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste in France, and the CPGB-PCC in the UK?