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Noam Chomsky on why Canada is in Afghanistan

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Frmrsldr
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Joined: Mar 4 2009

Say "Hello" to the new boss. Same as the old boss. Gen. Rick Hillier had also commanded units in the 'Raq'.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Pretty quiet in this thread. Laughing


Jingles
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Joined: Nov 13 2002

That's because we're still waiting for our orders from crazy Georgie II's gladio operation and our stoogecrat leaders to tell us what to say.

Quote:
When Gov. Gen. Adrienne Clarkson gave Natynczyk Canada's Meritorious Service Cross, her office extolled his "pivotal role in the development of numerous plans and operations [which] resulted in a tremendous contribution to...Operation IRAQI FREEDOM..."

And people were offended by her eating seal blubber.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Jingles wrote:

That's because we're still waiting for our orders from crazy Georgie II's gladio operation and our stoogecrat leaders to tell us what to say.

Quote:
When Gov. Gen. Adrienne Clarkson gave Natynczyk Canada's Meritorious Service Cross, her office extolled his "pivotal role in the development of numerous plans and operations [which] resulted in a tremendous contribution to...Operation IRAQI FREEDOM..."

And people were offended by her eating seal blubber.

NDPP

no no you've got the wrong ex cbc journalist at the royal trough - the great seal-meat segment so charmingly covered by the old mothercorp too I must say -  was this one - the royal Harper-helper who can't wait to get to Washington to talk about Haiti or so we were led to believe.


Cueball
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Joined: Dec 23 2003

Jingles wrote:

That's because we're still waiting for our orders from crazy Georgie II's gladio operation and our stoogecrat leaders to tell us what to say.

Oh you said it!


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Jingles wrote:

That's because we're still waiting for our orders from crazy Georgie II's gladio operation and our stoogecrat leaders to tell us what to say.

 

So what do you tell people when your radical left anti-war group goes pamphleteering? That we're there for the free beer and pizza?

 

Because if fearless Pete McKay can score with Condoleeza and Belinda both, he can score anywhere? Is that what you tell them?

 

Or is it a sing-song of protest? We won't be a cuttin' our cherub locks til the troops are a home? And not over there but hair?Here as opposed to there?

 

You should nip this in the bud now, or some of them might jump ship to a modern and legit anti-war movement, like the NDP.

 

Chomsky said: "We know that the official reasons are not credible, but there are plausible motives"


thanks
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Joined: Mar 21 2009

Noam Chomsky has much useful info, and note he does acknowledge the pipeline issues, even if he considers the NATO issues 'more' significant. 

me i'm of the mind that NATO and energy and resource control go hand in hand.

on the details of the function of the highway through Kandahar, we need to consider what we know about infrastructure energy corridors, Janet Eaton pulled together a great summary of that in accessible slideshow form regarding NAFTA energy corridors, and it's the same model globally. - mega highways alongside water, fuel, and hydro line mains, crossing continents.  it's a great way to access, exploit, transport, and control resources, all while appearing to be doing 'development'.  and the military clears the explosive devices and bombs the villages along the way to ensure the route.  Kandahar is right on the road route through Afghanistan and into Pakistan. 

we need to put that info together with earlier info about Chretien, now implicated in Burmese shenanigans as well, and the Canadian companies who just want to rape and pillage. 

Here from an earlier item at the Canadian Peace Alliance:

"Canadian Corporations in the Caspian


According to the Energy Information Administration there are proven reserves of between 17 and 44 billion barrels of oil
and 232 trillion cubic feet of gas in the Caspian region. Production of these reserves is very limited. As of 2004 only about 11% of the regions gas reserves, which equal those of Saudi Arabia, were under production.

On December 27, 2002 Afghanistan Pakistan and Turkmenistan signed an agreement to build a 1,500 kilometer long Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline – a $3.2 billion project expected to deliver 30 Billion cubic meters of natural gas a year. The only stumbling block to finally realizing this deal is the lack of stability in Afghanistan.

In September 2004 a joint Omani-Canadian delegation led by Yusuf bin Alavi, foreign minister of Oman, and Jean Chretien, former
Prime Minister of Canada, met in Turkmenistan to negotiate a deal between Edmonton based Buried Hill Energy and the Government of Turkmenistan to develop the Serdar block in the Caspian area. This is not the first or only time that the former
Prime Minister, a man responsible for sending thousands of Canadian soldiers to Afghanistan, has intervened on behalf of
Canadian corporations for contracts in the area.2 On the same trip Chretien met with Saparmurat Niyazov, the self proclaimed
president for life of Turkmenistan, and discussed potential involvement from Canadian corporations in the Trans-Afghan
pipeline.3 On October 20 2004 Thermo Design received a contract worth $42 million for the production of an LPG and gas
condensate plant in Turkmenistan that would produce 50,000 tons of LPG and 200,000 tons of condensate gas (light
gasoline) annually.4

The hypocrisy of signing multi-million dollar deals with one of the worst human rights abusers in the region5 while simultaneously
arguing that Canada’s soldiers are bringing peace is obvious. It is also standard operating procedure for successive governments
of Canada to ignore issues of Human rights if there is money to be made in international deals. These facts call into
question the real reasons why Canada is in Afghanistan.
"

http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Afghanistanfactsheet.pdf

 

 

 


thanks
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Joined: Mar 21 2009

also i wanted to ask people here if they think the SCO is an 'imperialist organization'.


Frmrsldr
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Joined: Mar 4 2009

thanks wrote:

also i wanted to ask people here if they think the SCO is an 'imperialist organization'.

It could be. The nice thing is that without it there would be no check on the U.S.A.'s and the West's imperialist designs. With it there is at least some check or a potential threat. One of the reasons why we are in the 'Ghan' is to make exploration and drilling for Caspian basin oil and gas difficult for Russia, China and India and to hurt Iran's economy by surrounding Iran and making it difficult for Iran to export its oil and gas.


thanks
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Joined: Mar 21 2009

so what do you do with the fact that Russia is now helping NATO in Afghanistan?

see, i think there's a pretty big disconnect in the usual NATO vs. SCO rhetoric- that progressive people should be thankful for the role of SCO.

taking this position jams us in several ways.

primarily, this analysis/approach justifies the position of those who would have Canada remain in Afghanistan- "If we don't get control of Central Asia, then the SCO will." This I think is an underlying fear of many in various parties who are not clear about getting our troops out.

their thinking is,

"If the SCO gets all those fossil fuel reserves, they'll have stronger military strength, will overrun us globally, and we'll all end up like the Tibetans."

Except that we're all ending up like the Tibetans anyway, and that fossil fuels will run out in any case.  the sooner we shift to renewables the better. this would be complemented by getting out of Afghanistan.  If the SCO wants the region, they will first have to contend with the residents themselves.  and if they work out some kind of arrangement, that's their business. 

our business is getting our own house in order.

another issue is that if Russia is doing both sides, and working with NATO and the SCO, then maybe Russia will join NATO, or the SCO will, or NATO might one day join the SCO.  who knows.  either way, Canadians killing and getting killed in Afghanistan won't make an iota of difference.  It just weakens us, between other powers.

better to spend our public dollars on peoples and alternative energy in this country.

 

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

There is something not right about the North Atlantic Treaty Org setting up shop in Central Asia ever since 1979 or so. NATO's acronymn is now an incorrect oxymoron, imo. Cold war's over, and the Soviets are no longer a threat to our bodily fluids and corporate raiders. The jackals can trade freely with Russia and China for whatever resources they want to. The trouble is, imperialists dont want to.


Frmrsldr
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Joined: Mar 4 2009

thanks wrote:

so what do you do with the fact that Russia is now helping NATO in Afghanistan?

 

Russia is currently helping NATO in the 'Ghan for the same reason that the U.S. helped the mujihadeen in the 'Ghan in the '70s and '80s: payback. For the U.S. it was payback for Russia supplying military trainers and weapons to North Vietnam in the '60s.

It is our war of aggression in the 'Ghan that created the SCO.

We have Russia and China with a military and economic alliance and we have Russia, China and India with a friendly diplomatic and economic alliance. Russia is the largest and most resource rich country in the world and is a nuclear power. Russia also has an alliance with Germany. Germany and France are on good terms. China is the most populous country in the world, a nuclear power and its economy is still growing within our global Great Depression II. India is the second most populous country in the world, a nuclear power and it has the second strongest economy in the world.

We're screwed already. The only thing we can do to save ourselves is get out of the 'Ghan and 'Raq and leave 'Ran alone and try to make friends and get along with Russia, China and India.


fiidel_castro
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Joined: Jul 3 2009

Fidel wrote:

Cold war's over, and the Soviets are no longer a threat to our bodily fluids 

 

Then how about this one: "Women..... uh, women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh.....I do not avoid women. But I do.......I do deny them my essence."  

How does this correspond with your post-war Commie conspiracy?

 

Sorry about this stupid post, I could not resist.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Good one, Fidel.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Frmrsldr wrote:

thanks wrote:

so what do you do with the fact that Russia is now helping NATO in Afghanistan?

 

Russia is currently helping NATO in the 'Ghan for the same reason that the U.S. helped the mujihadeen in the 'Ghan in the '70s and '80s: payback. For the U.S. it was payback for Russia supplying military trainers and weapons to North Vietnam in the '60s.

It is our war of aggression in the 'Ghan that created the SCO.

We have Russia and China with a military and economic alliance and we have Russia, China and India with a friendly diplomatic and economic alliance. Russia is the largest and most resource rich country in the world and is a nuclear power. Russia also has an alliance with Germany. Germany and France are on good terms. China is the most populous country in the world, a nuclear power and its economy is still growing within our global Great Depression II. India is the second most populous country in the world, a nuclear power and it has the second strongest economy in the world.

We're screwed already. The only thing we can do to save ourselves is get out of the 'Ghan and 'Raq and leave 'Ran alone and try to make friends and get along with Russia, China and India.

 

I think Iran is the only Muslim country not under western political influence in some way. But that's interesting as to why Russia would be dealing with their former cold war enemies to occupy Afghanistan. I believe it has to do with concessions. The US seems to be taking alternative steps to creating nuclear missile shield. Missile shield proposed by the Bush admin involved radar arrays in Czech Republic and anti-missile missiles stationed in Poland and not expected to be ready until 2015. Add a few more years for political opposition to the US missile shield in those countries,

 

It appears now that the US military has chosen mobile missile shields, ships and submarines armed with missiles and roaming the seven seas. Apparently "the enemy" is less able to anticipate a mobile counter-attack. I think it's colder war baloney and that they intend to continue encircling Russia and China militarily.

"War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it." - Orwell

 


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Chomsky knows the difference between an organ grinder and his monkey.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

M. Spector wrote:

Too bad he didn't answer your question.

Essentially he says Canada's just going along with whatever the US and UK think is best. He really doesn't know anything specific about the Canadian government's motives.

Retro bump! Perhaps our aspiring imperialists in Ottawa are planning to let the USSA duke it out to the finish with their former proxies in Kabul, the Taliban. At which point the army of frozen hosers will march in and clean up in Central Asia? Then we can proceed on our to drive Iran and Russia out of the Euro energy market and head for beers and donuts before Coach's Corner? Take off eh


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