Cueball
rabble-rouser-for-life
Member: 5790
Joined: Dec 23 2003

sanizadeh wrote:

Cueball wrote:

Heh. I spent the better part of three threads discussing democracy in Iran, where I asked what the tangible difference between a democractic system where a theocratic elite sanctions an electoral slate where two candidates are more simillar than they are different,  and a democracy where a corporate elite sanctions two candidates that are more simillar than they are different

On these three threads you have read articles and opinion pieces from many who have had thde experience of living under those two systems, and yet you reject their experience. So it seems the only way to understand the difference is to personally experience living under both systems and then compare them. Note that the difference is not just the mechanisms of election as you are focusing on; but the whole lack of legal protection for human rights of individuals and groups.

So you think.

Those who challenge the state know differently. This is a country where the Prime Minister invoked martial law in order to quell the threat of Quebec nationalism when two minor officials were kidnapped by a small revolutionary clique. Where the RCMP actively sent agent provocateurs into the midst of opposition groups to discredit them, buying dynamite to trump up evidence against people, burning down barns to prevent political meetings from taking place, stolen the membership lists of legal democratic parties, and when this was discovered, they held an inquirey and founded a new organization to do the same kinds of contelipro opreations, legaly. They called it CSIS, the very same CSIS that aided an abetted the torture of a teenager in Guantanmo Bay, and is "scolded" for doing so. A country where a police officer shoots a native activist and is given two years of community service for criminal negligence. And that is just here.

In the grand scheme, when we talk about here, we are talking about "the west" and particularly the USA. And if you really think that there is real legal protection for human rights for individuals and groups, in the United States you are seriously deluded. Nazis who march through black suburbs of Toledo are given police protection. Black people are murdered by law enforcement officers routinely, almost as if it is in the line of duty, executing them in full public view, or shooting them even when they follow instructions. Rioting takes place when the disenfranchised mass react to these blatant abuses, and for some reason here you seem to think we can determine that the violence is the fault of the protestors, and not a "police riot", whereas you insist that the violence perpetrated by people of Iran against police repression is justifiable. Even peaceful protests are routinely broken up violently by the police.

On the one hand you assert that narrative given by Iranian state media about how rioting is instigated by lawless elements is entirely false, but turn around and assert the same narrative when given by the mainstream media in the west, is essentially true... the work of anarchists and other lawless elements.

So yes, there is a difference. The unmasked brutality of the state is always availble to the powers that be, in direct ratio to the evident threat to authority. Were there a serious challenge to the reigning authority in the US, I believe the violence unleashed by the state would more than likely make what has been happening in Iran look like a tea party. When it comes down to it what you call the paper upon which the "legal protection for human rights of individuals and groups" exists is indeed very thin.


The Iranian Election and Its Aftermath By: NDPP (111 replies) July 23, 2009 - 1:03am
  • Sigh.  Its not about you By: Erik Redburn (Jul 28 2009 - 11:02pm)
  • Heh. I spent the better part By: Cueball (Jul 28 2009 - 10:47pm)
  • I gave it as example to show By: Erik Redburn (Jul 28 2009 - 10:25pm)
  • Redburn discovers Zizek By: Cueball (Jul 28 2009 - 10:27pm)
  • Heres another socialists By: Erik Redburn (Jul 28 2009 - 7:55pm)
  • Debate: How Should By: M. Spector (Jul 28 2009 - 2:33pm)
  • Where Should the Iranian By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 27 2009 - 1:53am)
  • For good. By: Michelle (Jul 26 2009 - 11:03pm)
  • Peech has gone on By: Maysie (Jul 26 2009 - 9:05pm)
  • http://site.iranlabor.com/ St By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 26 2009 - 8:58am)
  • Not really, apparently if By: Cueball (Jul 25 2009 - 7:33pm)
  • Cue: Don't you know world By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:25pm)
  • Peech wrote: Galvin and By: Cueball (Jul 25 2009 - 7:28pm)
  • The benign entity By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:24pm)
  • Forgot this gem of perverse By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:17pm)
  • Ignorance is By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:13pm)
  • I do recall someone claiming By: sanizadeh (Jul 25 2009 - 6:34pm)
  • Peech wrote: I don't know if By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 6:33pm)
  • Peech wrote:... many  on By: Unionist (Jul 25 2009 - 6:08pm)
  • Contrariannna: I don't know By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 5:47pm)
  • Peech: I'm not sure if your By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 4:36pm)
  • As does mine. Peech By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 4:24pm)
  • Unless you are Terry By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 3:58pm)
  • contrarianna wrote: I'm not By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 3:56pm)
  • I'm not sure why this troll By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 3:14pm)
  • Riding the "Green Wave" at By: Brendan Stone (Jul 25 2009 - 2:54pm)
  • NoDifferencePartyPooper By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 2:36pm)
  • Our Role in Containing Iran By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 25 2009 - 12:17pm)
  • Iranian Security Police By: Cueball (Jul 25 2009 - 8:48am)
  • Nuclear Iran Wouldn't Pose By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 25 2009 - 2:53am)
  • Iran's Absolutist By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 25 2009 - 1:14am)
  • New Great Game Revisited: By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 24 2009 - 8:26am)
  • Think maybe I will go to By: Cueball (Jul 23 2009 - 6:01pm)
  • Re: The Iranian Election and Its Aftermath By: sanizadeh (Jul 23 2009 - 5:03pm)
  • Iran's Tide of History: By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 23 2009 - 4:25am)