The Iranian Election and Its Aftermath By: NDPP (111 replies) July 23, 2009 - 1:03amSigh. Its not about you By: Erik Redburn (Jul 28 2009 - 11:02pm) Heh. I spent the better part By: Cueball (Jul 28 2009 - 10:47pm) I gave it as example to show By: Erik Redburn (Jul 28 2009 - 10:25pm) Redburn discovers Zizek By: Cueball (Jul 28 2009 - 10:27pm) Heres another socialists By: Erik Redburn (Jul 28 2009 - 7:55pm) Debate: How Should By: M. Spector (Jul 28 2009 - 2:33pm) Where Should the Iranian By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 27 2009 - 1:53am) For good. By: Michelle (Jul 26 2009 - 11:03pm) Peech has gone on By: Maysie (Jul 26 2009 - 9:05pm) http://site.iranlabor.com/
St By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 26 2009 - 8:58am) Not really, apparently if By: Cueball (Jul 25 2009 - 7:33pm) Cue:
Don't you know world By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:25pm) Peech wrote:
Galvin and By: Cueball (Jul 25 2009 - 7:28pm) The benign entity By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:24pm) Forgot this gem of perverse By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:17pm) Ignorance is By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 7:13pm) I do recall someone claiming By: sanizadeh (Jul 25 2009 - 6:34pm) Peech wrote:
I don't know if By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 6:33pm) Peech wrote:... many on By: Unionist (Jul 25 2009 - 6:08pm) Contrariannna:
I don't know By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 5:47pm) Peech:
I'm not sure if your By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 4:36pm) As does mine.
Peech By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 4:24pm) Unless you are Terry By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 3:58pm) contrarianna wrote:
I'm not By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 3:56pm) I'm not sure why this troll By: contrarianna (Jul 25 2009 - 3:14pm) Riding the "Green Wave" at By: Brendan Stone (Jul 25 2009 - 2:54pm) NoDifferencePartyPooper By: Peech (Jul 25 2009 - 2:36pm) Our Role in Containing Iran By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 25 2009 - 12:17pm) Iranian Security Police By: Cueball (Jul 25 2009 - 8:48am) Nuclear Iran Wouldn't Pose By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 25 2009 - 2:53am) Iran's Absolutist By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 25 2009 - 1:14am) New Great Game Revisited: By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 24 2009 - 8:26am) Think maybe I will go to By: Cueball (Jul 23 2009 - 6:01pm) Re: The Iranian Election and Its Aftermath By: sanizadeh (Jul 23 2009 - 5:03pm) Iran's Tide of History: By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 23 2009 - 4:25am)
- Long thread. By: Maysie (Aug 4 2009 - 7:15am)
- George Victor wrote: The By: Slumberjack (Aug 4 2009 - 7:14am)
- Cue: " Not at all, our By: George Victor (Aug 4 2009 - 6:09am)
- And it's sometimes rather By: George Victor (Aug 4 2009 - 5:58am)
- Slumberjack wrote: Cueball By: George Victor (Aug 4 2009 - 5:57am)
- Cueball wrote: And that is By: Slumberjack (Aug 3 2009 - 9:28pm)
- Slumberjack wrote: Cueball By: Cueball (Aug 3 2009 - 6:46pm)
- I guess it does go with By: George Victor (Aug 3 2009 - 6:41pm)
- George Victor wrote: Let's By: Slumberjack (Aug 3 2009 - 6:18pm)
- Cueball wrote: Not at all, By: Slumberjack (Aug 3 2009 - 5:31pm)
- Islam has always had its By: Cueball (Aug 3 2009 - 3:59pm)
- The particularly By: George Victor (Aug 3 2009 - 3:35pm)
- George Victor By: Cueball (Aug 3 2009 - 3:30pm)
- I don't hold a By: George Victor (Aug 3 2009 - 3:22pm)
- Actually, that's not the By: N.Beltov (Aug 3 2009 - 3:02pm)
- George Victor wrote: But how By: Cueball (Aug 3 2009 - 3:23pm)
- I'm afraid, Slumberjack, By: George Victor (Aug 3 2009 - 2:21pm)
- George Victor wrote: But how By: Slumberjack (Aug 3 2009 - 2:13pm)
- Slumberjack: "Islamic By: George Victor (Aug 3 2009 - 2:07pm)
- sanizadeh wrote: Do you By: Slumberjack (Aug 3 2009 - 1:44pm)
- Mousavi's Latest Statement By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Aug 3 2009 - 12:38pm)
- Slumberjack wrote: People By: sanizadeh (Aug 3 2009 - 10:29am)
- Erik Redburn wrote: Don't By: Slumberjack (Aug 3 2009 - 9:18am)
- Let's try to state the By: George Victor (Aug 3 2009 - 9:10am)
- Slumberjack wrote: Erik By: Erik Redburn (Aug 3 2009 - 7:09am)
- Slumberjack wrote: Opposing By: Erik Redburn (Aug 2 2009 - 11:05pm)
- Live Blogging from Tehran By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Aug 2 2009 - 1:59pm)
- This formation has been put By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Aug 2 2009 - 9:53am)
- Has this group's By: George Victor (Aug 2 2009 - 8:10am)
- And while the internal By: George Victor (Aug 2 2009 - 8:00am)
- MRZine Sinks to New By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Aug 2 2009 - 1:03am)
- Erik Redburn wrote: In some By: Slumberjack (Aug 1 2009 - 11:14pm)
- "Mr Saderigh escaped Tehran By: Erik Redburn (Aug 1 2009 - 9:27pm)
- Slumberjack wrote: Cueball By: Erik Redburn (Aug 1 2009 - 9:26pm)
- Cueball wrote: Well, you By: Erik Redburn (Aug 1 2009 - 9:02pm)
- Factional Struggles Deepen By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Aug 1 2009 - 10:14am)
- London Based Activists By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 31 2009 - 11:25pm)
- Cueball wrote: .....and all By: Slumberjack (Jul 31 2009 - 9:33am)
- The plot thickens: President By: Cueball (Jul 31 2009 - 8:06am)
- Well, you see, he can't By: Cueball (Jul 31 2009 - 8:01am)
- It would be nice if Erik and By: Ghislaine (Jul 31 2009 - 7:52am)
- But, in order to make By: Cueball (Jul 31 2009 - 7:48am)
- Cueball wrote: .....as part By: Slumberjack (Jul 31 2009 - 7:34am)
- That is true. In this thread By: Cueball (Jul 31 2009 - 7:38am)
- CB: "Nothing in that By: Erik Redburn (Jul 31 2009 - 4:24am)
- And now.....back to By: George Victor (Jul 31 2009 - 3:18am)
- Nothing in that rather By: Cueball (Jul 31 2009 - 2:51am)
- But maybe youre right on By: Erik Redburn (Jul 31 2009 - 12:22am)
- And you should mind your own By: Erik Redburn (Jul 31 2009 - 12:18am)
- You should get over yourself By: RevolutionPlease (Jul 31 2009 - 12:02am)
- Flag as By: Erik Redburn (Jul 30 2009 - 11:42pm)
- Cueball wrote: Ok, listen. I By: Erik Redburn (Jul 31 2009 - 12:26am)
- The plot thickens: President By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 9:23am)
- Iran to try 20 vote By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 9:23am)
- Ok, listen. I am finally By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 6:30am)
- Looks like I was wrong, I By: Erik Redburn (Jul 30 2009 - 6:16am)
- Actually why don't you not By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 5:53am)
- You just Have to get the By: Erik Redburn (Jul 30 2009 - 5:36am)
- Exactly. Its totally By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 4:42am)
- "I might just as well say By: Erik Redburn (Jul 30 2009 - 3:58am)
- Again, you will have to By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 3:31am)
- Wow, back already? You Are By: Erik Redburn (Jul 30 2009 - 3:12am)
- Erik Redburn wrote: CB: By: Cueball (Jul 30 2009 - 2:57am)
- CB: "Look, the point here By: Erik Redburn (Jul 30 2009 - 2:46am)
- Look, the point here is that By: Cueball (Jul 29 2009 - 10:33pm)
- Cueball wrote: Right. It's a By: sanizadeh (Jul 29 2009 - 8:23pm)
- sanizadeh wrote: Cueball By: Cueball (Jul 29 2009 - 7:33pm)
- Cueball wrote: What do you By: sanizadeh (Jul 29 2009 - 7:25pm)
- What do you mean? By: Cueball (Jul 29 2009 - 6:32pm)
- Cueball wrote: Those who By: sanizadeh (Jul 29 2009 - 3:06pm)
- cueball, has it occured to By: Ghislaine (Jul 29 2009 - 2:54pm)
- sanizadeh wrote: Cueball By: Cueball (Jul 29 2009 - 8:04am)
- Russia and Iran Join By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 29 2009 - 3:41am)
- Iran: Whose By: NoDifferencePartyPooper (Jul 29 2009 - 3:34am)
- Cueball wrote: Heh. I spent By: sanizadeh (Jul 29 2009 - 3:06am)
- So when I say something like By: Cueball (Jul 29 2009 - 12:06am)
Look, the point here is that we are looking at the larger scale aspects of "systems", and trying to determine their net effect in terms of real democracy and freedom from corruption. The ideological backdrop upon which much of the commentary on the situation in Iran is set up is based on a theoretical dichotomy between "systems" and the ideological root of those systems. This is most often posed by the formula: Islamic Authoritarianism v. Liberal Democracy. At stake is the idea that there is a fundamental ideological difference between the two that presents itself in the form of real democracy and freedom from corruption.
Even under Stalin, part of the process of the purge was occassionally putting state security personnel and even state prosecutors on trial for excesses committed in the name of the state, precisely for the purpose of displacing blame from the overall abuses committed by the system in total: "Mistakes were made, comrade."
We are not just comparing Canada v Iran. We are comparing the "systems" in total. One can find real differences that present themselves between the situation in the United States and Canada as well. But the question is, is there an underlying fundamental difference in the manner in which each ideology impacts the state of affairs on a day to day basis, when presented with simillar social stresses?
Carefully ignoring direct comparisons I made to other manifestations of "liberal democracy" in action, and relying on Canada as a model, does not in any way shape of form truly represent the potential for abuse of police powers, corruption and the demise of real democracy in "the west", as posed in alleged tangible differences between the manner in which the putative "Islamic Authoritarianism" operates in comparison to "Liberal Democracy" as they function on a day to day basis in relationship to dissent, and the manifestations of dissent in the form of public protest.
In fact, as we see in the Dudley George shooting, police officers are held to a lower standard of compliance to the law than the average citizen, when in fact the complete opposite should be true. Officers who kill people in the line of duty should not be excused for doing so but punished to the maximum by the law that they are sworn to uphold, especially since they wield inordinate powers, beyond those of the average citizen.
We can see that even when faced with public protest of dissenting opinions that are relatively benign in comparison to the large scale outburst of public outrage that took place in Iran, police forces here in the west, even in Canada, take an adversarial position against protest and routinely exceed the necessary forced required to maintain public order, and that official investigations of that excess amount to pro-forma adminstrative posturing without real teeth for conviction of offending police officials or the people they command.
Now, given these abuses of police power are routine, in situations where there are even small, and largely peaceful protests, we can easily extrapolate what kind of mayhem would ensue were protestors to take the kind of actions "en masse" as they did recently in Iran.
There is a reason that new police stations are designed like fortresses, like the new 52 division building on college, or the Hastings VPD precinct in downtown Vancouver.