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Let ex-labour leader serve sentence in Canada: NDP
August 11, 2009 - 10:41am
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From the Globe and Mail article of the same name:
Alex Atamanenko, Mr. Holmes's member of Parliament, said yesterday Mr. Holmes has been incarcerated in a privately run prison in Pennsylvania. The food is substandard, recreational facilities are lacking and, as a foreigner, he would have access to a minimal number of rehabilitation programs, he said. "Conditions are very much harsher, especially for foreigners," he said.
Canada has programs in place to re-integrate him back into society, he added.
U.S. authorities approved the transfer, but Canada would not accept him, Mr. Atamanenko said. The transfer of Canadians from U.S. prisons to Canada was routine under the former Liberal government, but the Conservative government introduced new procedures that have led to delays and refusals.
"It's proving to be a real hardship for the family," he said, adding that Mr. Holmes is the father of eight children. His wife was forced to find work to support the family and is working at a minimum wage job.
Six handguns and an ASSAULT RIFLE? In Canada? Was he hunting armoured rabbits??
Sounds like he just didn't get the chance to commit a crime of violence. He sure seems ready.
Anyway, the emphasis on "labour leader" makes this look a little fishy. Would the NDP be spending their time on this if he was an ex-CEO?
Ex-CEOs don't seem to need NDP MPs spending their time on this - they already have the government on their side. Wasn't David Radler transferred after 4 or 5 months?
How many guns did he have?
Anyway, I guess I'm not following the angle here. Why should Canadians foot the bill for this guy's incarceration if he was convicted in the United States? Why should we be losing sleep over it? I don't get the sense that he was wrongfully convicted, nor that he's being tortured, or facing the gallows. And as the article said, he could have cooperated with authorities... that might have helped.
Aside from being responsible for our citizens and the humanitarian aspect (which I hope the NDP stands for), there is an important public safety element here. Those who serve their terms in foreign countries are released and deported back to Canada without a criminal record in Canada and without supervision or supports of any kind. On the other hand, if transferred, they then come under our correctional service and become subject to the terms of release here, including supervision, parole, etc. They are monitored while they make the transition back into their lives here, which I personally think is a good thing. As well, they then have a criminal record in Canada, which is not true if they are released from their foreign prison. I would think that that, too, is in the interest of Canadians as a whole.
Treaties exist between countries that mean essential exchanges...we take on the expense of Canadians prisoners, while transferring foreign prisoners here to their country of origin. That means that, while we would take on some, we would also remove others.
You asked about ex-CEOS...you didn't specify ex-CEOs with guns.
The article says exactly the opposite.
CEO's don't usually carry guns they hire "bodyguards" instead. By the Way the Tyee says that Holmes is a Liberal.
"Holmes is a well-known Liberal supporter and has contributed $100 to the campaign of the party's leader Stéphane Dion."
Mind you Don would likely know him personally from his time at the Teamsters as a lawyer.
Yes, Holmes is a Liberal, though some would try and bury it, and indicate he was a "labour leader" aka NDP.
Funny...I though CEO's used mercenaries to do their dirty work, like the Canadian military and their private contractors? Then of course there is the "police force".
Snert, you are not seriously quoting a Con, aka Van Loan, as a valid source of credibility and truthfulness, are you?
If Holmes was given supervisory time after his release it is also transferred to Canada as probation time conditions.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/I-20.6/bo-ga:s_16/20090811/en#an...
Have read up on actualities instead of quoting Van Loan as truth.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/I-20.6/index.html
self-delete.
Are you talking about section 16 of the link you've provided? IANAL, but it seems to me that that's addressing foreign sentences consisting solely of probation, and foreign sentences of less than two years, that also include probation.
I'm not saying that that means there would be no supervision here in Canada, but I'm not sure that those links say otherwise.
And I remain unconvinced that this guy should be anyone's concern. He tried to smuggle a few million worth of narcotics, he got caught with his fingers in the cookie jar, and now he's paying the price. And as the article notes, he could have reduced his sentence by cooperating with authorities once arrested. That might have bought him a bit of sympathy, too.
Let's deal in reality snert.
But before I go on, I will say; I have absolutely no sympathy for a guy who was muling cocaine into Canada, either directly, or or by allowing his property to be used for such.
1. He has 8 children, who will have no opportunity to see their father for 7 years, plus however long they have given to him to be "supervised" thereafter. If was in a BC jail they could visit him in jail at least, and talk on the phone to him and then see him when he was at a halfway house after his release.
2. If his sentencing is equivalent in jail time to what he would get in Canada, his jail time would stand.
3. If there is court ordered supervision after the US proscribed jail time, it translates directly into Canadian proscribed probation time .
4. Federal convicts do not get out without probation time, if probation time was part of sentencing, and often when it isn't, as the parole board sets up conditions of release.
5. Did you never once think that if he would have "co-operated" with authorities, he just would have been dead, thus leaving his kids with no father, instead of one missing for a chunk of years? Organized crime at that level does not fuck around with those who rat out to lessen their time, they just kill them, and for much less of amounts than 4 million concession trading of names/affliates.
Very well. I'm not entirely swayed by #1, or to be more accurate, I don't know that we should be. I know that family suffer when someone goes to prison, but if we start making that a special case then we're just penalizing people who already have nobody. But otherwise, OK, bring him back to serve his time.
I am most certainly swayed by number 1, which is why I placed it there. It has absolutely nothing to do with "penalizing" those who already have nobody. It is about not penalizing the children.
We are talking about children here, even if he was in jail in Wash State, which would make more sense than Pennsylvania, it would be better for them. They could at least go across the border for visits, but moving him across the country is just plain evil towards the children. How do you take 8 children across the continent to visit their father on a min wage job?
There is no special case! All Canadians charged abroad should be spending time in Canadian jails not elsewhere.
Does no one appreciate the irony and slander of calling this low-life character a "labour leader"?
LMAO
They used to call Clifford Olson an "unemployed construction worker" whereas he spent most of his life in the can and worked maybe a couple of months outside as a labourer. He was a career crook. Nonetheless the media grabbed at the opportunity to slander workers once again. I said at the time the horrible little man spent more time writing letters to the newspapers than working at construction (or anything else) so they could more reasonably have called him an "unemployed newspaper writer."
But this fellow.. hmm.. a Liberal dope pusher. Assuming he was rehabilitated in prison, would he then leave the Liberals and move in a saner humaner direction.. or would he more likely "find Jesus" inside and turn to the extreme right? Would the Cons then happily bring him back to this country?
Well, that settles the issue, I guess. Take me to my leader!
Perley Holmes, the Business Manager of 97, was arrested by U.S. Border Patrol officers Jan. 18. In addition to his position with Local 97, Holmes is listed on the website of the B.C. and Yukon Building and Construction Trades Council as a member of its executive board.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/01/29/Holmes/
Another case that our two old line parties dont want to use an existing Can-Am agreement for prisoner transfers. The HarperIggys should all be made to get real jobs themselves for what they achieve in Ottawa together.
I wouldnt want to do time in an American gulag either. They are awful places rife with human rights violations galore.
Apparently Snert supports Jack Layton and the NDP's proposal to give provinces the authority to ban handguns.
That's worse than I thought. Thanks for the info, Ktown. Let him serve his sentence down there.
It's too bad Holmes wasnt 15 years-old when imprisoned in a US gulag for his non-violent crime. Liber-Tories would have asked the Americanos if they wanted CSIS spooks to soften him up first before abandoning Holmes to "gulag nation" USSA
Statistics show its sick how we livin
The one thing bigger than dope gangs is prisons
One million niggas inside
Over three million is tied and plus the president lied
Because the white house is the rock house
Uncle sam the pusha man
This is for my people on the island - Dead Prez
All I gotta say is follow ur own laws and bring him here. If people really think they aint got another more ruthless person pushing shit over the border already Ur the one on dope lol. Let the kids see the father really you think he's the one controlling the trade? CIA does that lol he's just another pawn who got played and the fedz succed him.