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Should The Left Call for Taliban Victory?

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Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Ze wrote:

 

As an aside, I've certainly never said the people of Afghanistan are our enemy. Quite the reverse. I'd like to see Canadian troops out yesterday. I simply don't equate the words "resistance" and "Taliban." 

Right on, you'd like to define the "resistance" not on the basis of who is resisting, but whether they are nice people or not. That's how the war against the Afghan people is justified and perpetuated. It was the same with the war against the people of Southeast Asia, because the communists were cutthroat murdering terrorists bent on world conquest - just like the Taliban.

 


WillC
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Joined: Oct 1 2004

Unionist wrote:

 

But I guess maybe history wasn't your strongest subject at school?

 


Frmrsldr
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Joined: Mar 4 2009

SparkyOne wrote:

Why shouldn't the Taliban be allowed to have Nukes?

 

Nuclear arms control is like gun control. If we wish to reduce crime involving firearms, we could ban all guns - save for law enforcement officers.

Detractors make the opposite argument: You cannot eliminate gun crime because criminals will not respect the law and if they want guns, they will get them. You can't always have police in the right place at the right time. How would you feel if you or a member of your family was the victim of a gun crime? How would you feel if you had a gun and the opportunity to successfully defend yourself when there were no police officers available? The argument here is that everyone, legally and in principle, has the right to bear arms. Corollary to this, there must also be strong prevention of gun crimes and strong punishment as deterrent if they occur.

The chief inventor of the atom bomb, Oppenheimer argued that nuclear weapons technology should be public knowledge, not a jealously guarded secret by a (growing number of) few nations.

Which do you prefer:

1. A nuclear weapons free world?

2. A world where every country (or every country that wants them) has nuclear weapons?

In which world would you feel (more) secure?


Erik Redburn
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Joined: Feb 26 2004

Just focus on getting Western forces out of another bankrupting and losing war in the MIddle East; trying to defend the Taliban or Al Qaeda themselves will do more to hinder that reasonable goal than help.  The majority in the West are already coming around to that.  It's not complicated. 


Jingles
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Joined: Nov 13 2002

Stockholm wrote:

I wonder why there isn't a Taliban party candidate running for President in the Afghan elections. Surely Mullah Omar would sweep to power if he was on the ballot? 

See, you do pick out relevant stuff every once in a while.

In fact, the Taliban and Mullah Omar are excluded from the ballot. That's democracy in action. Only parties and candidates approved by the occupying power may stand for election. Gotta keep a tight lid on the locals, lest they get idears in their heads about voting for someone they want. Next thing you know, you get Hamas.

No, it's best that western occupying crusader armies determine whom are eligible for democracy. That's why the boys are a-fightin'!


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Crushing Democracy in Afghanistan May '09

Quote:
Demonstration elections

The elections for President in October 2004 and for the Afghan parliament in September 2005 were deeply flawed. The main concern of Afghan liberals and democrats was the refusal of the U.S. government and Karzai to permit the participation of political parties. In the presidential election, Karzai won 55% of the vote, with strong support among the Pushtun communities, but he failed to win a majority in the areas of strength of the other ethnic groups. He had the support of the democrats who feared the election of one of the Islamist warlords. He was always the lesser evil.

The election for the new parliament was worse. While 34 political parties petitioned the government for an electoral system based on proportional representation, this was rejected. Instead, the U.S. government and President Karzai decreed the Single Non-Transferable Vote (SNTV) system where only individuals could run for office and there would be no party identification or party lists. There were 2,800 candidates. Voter turnout for these elections was much lower, in Kabul only 30%. Voters were confronted by many candidates with no political identification.

The SNTV electoral system proved to be profoundly anti-democratic. As Andrew Reynolds points out, the winning candidates received just 2 million votes or 32% of the total. The losing candidates received 4.5 million votes or around two-thirds of the total.


SparkyOne
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Joined: Jul 24 2009

Unionist wrote:

But I guess maybe history wasn't your strongest subject at school?

 

Nope! Maybe I was skipping the same time you were when your law class was learning about suspension with pay &CUPE.

Maybe we passed each other in the lunchroom even Wink

 

Now of course we both know I meant super powers aren't presently launching nuclear strikes against other countries, but don't let that get in your way.

 

Frmrsldr wrote:

 

Which do you prefer:

1. A nuclear weapons free world?

2. A world where every country (or every country that wants them) has nuclear weapons?

In which world would you feel (more) secure?

 

#1 sir.

In my little dream world there's no weapons.


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

I'm afraid the real rule has been: Nukes for frontline states of the empire expanding eastward, and especially when surrounding the commies ie Russia and China, Iran etc. Fund militant Islamic groups, rinse and repeat.


Erik Redburn
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Joined: Feb 26 2004

Jingles wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

I wonder why there isn't a Taliban party candidate running for President in the Afghan elections. Surely Mullah Omar would sweep to power if he was on the ballot? 

See, you do pick out relevant stuff every once in a while.

In fact, the Taliban and Mullah Omar are excluded from the ballot. That's democracy in action. Only parties and candidates approved by the occupying power may stand for election. Gotta keep a tight lid on the locals, lest they get idears in their heads about voting for someone they want. Next thing you know, you get Hamas.

No, it's best that western occupying crusader armies determine whom are eligible for democracy. That's why the boys are a-fightin'!

 

Very deep.  Is that the "Taliban" that's now blowing up polling stations and threatening to kill anyone who even goes to vote?  Are these the same "Talibs" that did in fact run most the country for awhile, but seemed to exclude certain members themselves from their own "democratic" process?  

Excluding them permanently probably is a bad idea --even guys like Obama have paid lip service towards negotiating with "the enemy" now- but then the Allies and Soviets alike excluded real life Nazis from forming another party immediately after their defeat in WW 2 and Germany somehow survived, so lets try to be a little more realistic here and stop making the Taliban/Al Qaeda/whoever out as nothing but patriotic liberators ok?


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Erik Redburn wrote:

Excluding them permanently probably is a bad idea --even guys like Obama have paid lip service towards negotiating with "the enemy" now- but then the Allies and Soviets alike excluded real life Nazis from forming another party immediately after their defeat in WW 2 and Germany somehow survived, so lets try to be a little more realistic here and stop making the Taliban/Al Qaeda/whoever out as nothing but patriotic liberators ok?

Perhaps you could reflect on the notion that it's up to the Afghan people - not you or Obama - as to whether the Taliban are "allowed" to form a party, run in elections, etc.? And that in WW2, the Allies and Soviets had the right to destroy the Nazis and deprive them of all rights because of their aggression and crimes against other peoples - the German people had forfeited the right to govern themselves for the time being.

Colonial psychology runs very very deep in this thread.


Maysie
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Joined: Apr 21 2005

Super-long thread.


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