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Is PETA directing "hate speech" towards fat people?
August 26, 2009 - 9:48am
Is PETA going too far, once again?
Well, it's certainly in-your-face speech...but "hate speech"?
No.
Peta always goes overboard just to get in the news. It seems to work. Is it hate speech? yes. Hands up, how many on this thread are overweight? And if you are overweight is it ok to call you a whale?
I am, and yes, it's OK, at least from a legal point of view. Calling me a whale should not be hate speech. Nor is calling PETA a bunch of juvenile half-wit misguided sentimental seal-loving idiots.
Unless we're taking "hate speech" out of any formal or legal context, and using it as a placeholder for "mean spirited speech" or "offensive speech" or "insulting speech" then I think it would be monumentally short-sighted to start describing any insult as hate speech.
Is it hate speech? Probably not, but it's damned hurtful and juvenile.
I'm not overweight, btw, but someone near and dear to me is and this sort of thing really bothers me. It doesn't motivate anybody to change their habits or improve their health.
PETA's middle-to-upper-class values campaign is making a lot of assumptions about the behaviours of overweight and/or obese people. Applying generalisations. Stereotyping.
Marilyn Wann was right, PETA is advancing it's agenda at the expense of an identifiable group.
PETA's assumptions are overweight people's diet's consist of KFC and Ralphin' Ronnie's...
Jane Valez Mitchell was also guilty of generalising and self righteousness.
You know what I find funny? "News" shows always show clips of overweight people walking down the street or doing Jazzercise in a local pool. (they did it in this segment)
... these people are getting exercise, engaging in a healthy activity, and they are being judged by the "News" agency as they spin and make assumptions about a person's lifestyle and eating habits based on their body shape.
The real issues are more and more people have less access to healthy, affordable food but greater access to fast food and junk food (which is cheaper to transport) that does not meet their nutritional needs.
Urban Vegetable Gardens are one solution being advocated and implemented in Chicago where there are is an absence of access to grocery chains (I think I heard there is not one single grocery chain to be found in Chicago) but have greater access to fast food chains.
In the Northwest Territories, milk is really expensive, but coca-cola is relatively less expensive, so families end up purchasing more colas than milk. Food prices are 470% higher than in Ottawa. 2 litres of milk costs about $8.19 compared with $4.19 in Ottawa.
From Canadian Geographic November/December 2007 issue:
Catelli Spaghetti, 900g Ottawa $2.29 Cape Dorset,Nunavut $4.69 Old Crow,
Yukon $6.59 Minute Rice, 700g Ottawa $3.49 Cape Dorset $6.49 Old Crow $7.69
One-quarter of women of child-bearing age in the Northwest Territories are "at risk" nutritionally.
If PETA would support local initiatives to establish Urban Vegetable gardens, or to help create better access to nutritional affordable food instead of condemning and alienating people and whole communities it might give that middle/upper-class values organisation (PETA) more credence.
The stupid thing about it is that going vegetarian DOESN'T make you thin. I went vegan and I sure as heck didn't get thin.
Anyhow, yes, I'm overweight; no, it's not "hate speech".
If children see this and call overweight kids whale is that hateful? It sure feels that way to the obese kid.
"Hate speech" in a legal sense? No. Hateful speech, hurtful speech, demeaning speech, yes.
I also agree with Michelle, going veggie is not some miracle weight loss diet. Diet is way more then just about eating or not eating meat and animal products.
Perhaps the question isn't so much whether using that label is "hateful" or not. Perhaps the question is: Is this speech for which a person should have a legal remedy if someone calls them a "whale"? And, if so, what would that legal remedy be?
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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Bitch magazine article, Feminists Protest PETA for a Change
Blog about the protest.
If calling a fat person a "whale" should be legally punishable, then calling someone a "moron" or an "idiot" or "stupid" should certainly be legally punishable.
Most overweight issues, I believe, are behaviorally based (with a certain - and smaller - percentage that is more genetically rooted). On the other hand, if a person is relatively stupid (as opposed to ignorant), there's not a whole hell of a lot that that person can do or control to become "not stupid" (the analogue of losing weight). In other words, it seems less fair to call someone "stupid" when they have little (if any) control over their native intelligence than it is to call someone a "whale" when, in most instances, it's controllable.
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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
I remember it well. :( However, when I said "hate speech" I was talking about it in a legal sense. But then, I don't really believe in legally banning "hate speech" anyhow.
But I agree, it is hateful to call fat people "whales".
The trouble with PETA's argument is it's based on the idea that being fat is entirely a consequence of choice, and losing weight is a matter of personal responsibility. The news segment made it obvious: over 2/3 of Americans are overweight. So there's something going on culturally that is causing this, and it's much bigger than the individual.
Vegan food choices: potato chips, french fries, chocolate, sugar, maple syrup, nut butters, avocadoes, pop. I've met all sorts of chubby vegans.
Even if it were, PETA is still welcome to kiss my hairy (dare I say it?) FAT ASS. To them, my health is just a convenient and accessible entry point for them to flog their usual politics, NONE of which are concerned with whether I live or die, and all of which are concerned with the poor wee cute li'l baby lambs.
I think that's what I find so incredibly disgusting about PETA: like true zealots, nothing else matters. Anything goes in the name of "the cause". Sexism? Sure! Insulting holocaust victims? Of course! Making fun of kids with acne, dressing women up in lettuce leaves, referring to women as whales... it's all OK, because there's only ONE important thing in the world, and that's trying to make everyone "go vegan". Nothing must ever interfere with that Most Holy of missions.
That's so very true...of all zealots, most of whom occupy the opposite wings of the political spectrum.
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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Actually, even if becoming overweight is entirely behaviourally based (I'm not postulating that it is, mind), that's a grotesque oversimplification of the issue. The psychology of obesity is actually pretty complex - in some cases very much an addiction issue. Treated as an addiction, food as the addictive substance is incredibly tricky because you can't learn to abstain from food. I'm pretty sure anybody who has struggled with her or his weight is intimately acquainted with the causes, but we smug little lightweights have our habits and compulsions, too. I know smokers who are too worried to quit because they might put on weight.... Like the tobacco isn't going to kill you just as dead and maybe even sooner!
But we don't put up billboards attempting to shame alcoholics into going dry, do we? Not even the female ones. Maybe that's because we don't have "save the grapes" and "hops liberation" movements looking for a leg up on other peoples difficulties.
I agree that obesity not a simple issue.
But, the fact remains that Americans (in particular) are getting fatter and fatter over time. It's a uniquely modern-day phenomenon...and a substantial component of the problem is rooted in individual choice.
As to the point raised by others that veganism does not guarantee that a person will have a healthy weight, I completely agree. But, I'd be willing to bet large coin that the average vegan weighs substantially less than the average person who is not a vegan.
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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
As there would be a high proportion of people who are vegans who pay very close attention to their weight and have less difficulty limiting their diets, sure. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who are omnivores who also pay close attention to what they eat and have less difficulty limiting their diets. I would be one of those people, myself.
There is also a higher proportion of people who pay attention to other lifestyle health habits within that group, so a direct comparison is difficult. It's not the vegan diet that's the key, specifically, it's conscious eating and lifestyle habits. Not everyone finds this easy to do. It would be nice if you could go vegan and the rest would follow, but it's unlikely that it would work that way for most people who are actually battling obesity - and I don't mean just being overweight, but actual obesity.
Now, rather than comparing all vegans to all omnivores, what I'd like to see is a comparison of vegans to omnivores with similar lifestyle habits. That would be interesting. My bet is that there wouldn't be much weight difference, but having been vegan at one point, I'll bet on the omnivores for a better state of health (but that's my own personal bias!).
I completely agree. Veganism, per se, is not a magic bullet. Conscious eating and lifestyle habits, generally, is the key.
I would make the same bet. A person can be healthy as a vegan and as a non-vegan. But, again, healthy people (weight-wise), whether vegan or not, generally are those who make conscious eating and lifestyle choices which are good.
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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Yes that's true Sven - like participating in sports, or going to the gym for cardio and weight work outs, swimming, hiking, biking etc.
I'm one of the only vegetarians I know at my gym, which is a fairly big gym...and mostly people can't fathom how I can not eat meat and still be healthy. I have yet to experience food poisoning as a result of my diet since going vegetarian. That is one giant benefit of a vegan/vegie diet. Also, I don't need to go for "colon cleansing".
The key to any successful weight loss is to eat smaller portions, chew the food slowly, eat proper food choices (no high fat, high carbs, good protien), do a lot of cardio and add in weight lifting and core exercise.
I used to be a fan of PETA but it is far to hard to overlook their horribly insensitive stances.
Actually, it's more the key to not gaining in the first place than weight loss -- once you're already at the point of obesity, your weight loss is a long-term project and there's very little out there that conclusively shows long-term weight loss. Many people lose weight, but inconsistently and often bounce back up, and it isn't necessarily that they've just dropped all the better habits they've formed.
I've been vegetarian, vegan and omnivore. I've never had food poisoning, nor have I ever found it necessary to have a "colon cleanse". The idea that these things go hand in hand with an omnivorous diet is sheer propaganda. And I eat some high fat foods, carbs, you name it. Lots of organic veggies and whole grains, too. Just don't suggest I give up bacon! Or ice cream!
I found it easy enough to be healthy on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet, much harder as a vegan, and feel the best when eating a moderate amount of meat. There's a certain amount of variance in our body chemistries, so the same thing won't work for everyone.
Well you're very lucky to have never had food poisoning, as most people who eat meat have, at least once in their lives. As for Colon cleansing, if I were still a meat eater I'd be fairly worried about the state of what rotting meat is now calcified in my intestines.
The key to keeping the weight off, after losing it, is a haelthy diet, cardio and exercize. I do not subscribe to the view that once you are heavy you'll always be heavy. Not for everyone, not all the time.
Thank you Timebandit for taking on the laughable idea that meat eaters "need" colon cleanses. Such procedures are a sham, and totally unnecessary.
Off topic - the tiny font problem is maddening.
Yes, I hate it. Once it asserts itself, there doesn't seem to be any way to rejig the formatting.
What is it about PETA that makes so many people here go crazy?
They're trying to draw attention to their cause, and aren't worried about alienating or offending anyone to do so. I find their approach rather refreshing.
Normally I'd agree with you, al-Q, but this one doesn't even make sense. What does this say to fat vegans who have already embraced their cause? You don't lose weight by going vegetarian. It's pure disinformation.
I love it when meat eaters get all bloody uptight when you point out the obvious. It doesn't take a genious to know that meat causes more food poisoning than veggies. It is all about the risk factor. Nice try though. I know it helps to stay in a bubble world where food poisoning applies equally to both meat eaters and vegans/vegetarisn. Alas, it is not so.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=ee66451e-aa59-4...
"The Council for Agricultural Science and Technology, a private nonprofit organization, estimated that in one year as many as 9,000 deaths and 6.5 to 33 million illnesses in the US and Canada are food-related. And these are only the serious cases; it's safe to say that the majority of the less serious food contamination cases are not reported and are passed off by the victims as a stomach flu."
http://www.alive.com/3740a1a2.php?subject_bread_cramb=389
http://www.healthlinkalberta.ca/Topic.asp?GUID={B099F484-BA5F-444F-B7A5-ECBB0602BABB}
http://www.canadianfoodsafetytraining.com/index.php?option=com_content&v...
As far as colon cleansing, well, here are a few nice sites for some information. If you're not too worried about the meat you eat and what it does to your body then hey, no need to bother. But there are many people who DO worry, and they bother all the time and what comes out is not exactly appetizing. I'm unsure about the whole process myself...
Me? I like to make sure the food I eat doesn't make me sick. I have not had food poisoning Once since I have become a vegetarian. I used to get it at least once a few weeks when I ate meat.
Oh come on! Now I'm trying to "control" women and girls? Yes, that's me...I am all about controlling women and girls. I resent that greatly remind.
I resent that a lot.
I have a son, so my worry was over the ridicules clothes (to me) he wore. I didn't have to worry about daughters but given I AM a female, and I know what it is like to have men and teen boys pray on you, if I had daughters I would try to not let them out of the house with a skirt so short you see everything. I must be a bad feminist then. Terrible. I will strip myself now of all feminist thinking...
Shouldn't be too hard. I guess RosaL isn't one either. How I have deluded myself these past 22 years...
BTW, I asked for some concrete actions we can do to stop men and boys from being sexist. I haven't received any responses to that...
The problem is, men and boys are very sexist. No need for reality when we can fight amongst ourselves...
ok people
I am allergic to dairy products and have a wheat sensitivity I read the ingredients of everything I purchase, I have to. I can't eat, and therefore don't eat processed food. When my daughter went off to college I committed to eating vegitarian 5 or 6 nights a week. Both my former personal trainer (I was to be a test case for her so it was free) and my chiropractor nag the crap out of me to eat more. I tend to eat less than 1000 calories and often just don't eat beyond a smoothy. Yet I'm obese. Weight is more complicated than calories in and calories burned. Genetics, metabolic rate, etc etc etc People get confused around me, and end up addressing the prejudices they carry. It happens when I'm with new people and there's food around. People notice I'm not eating, or if I am, it's all the 'healthy' stuff (raw veggies, no carbs etc). There's an asumption that I am not eating the "bad stuff" simply because I'm in public and that would be fulfilling a sterotype, if I ate 'crap', so I "pretend" to eat healthy in public and obviously, because of my size, eat ding dongs and ho hos in private...or so they thinkSo then I explain I am allergic to dairy and wheat.
2 minutes of processing happens and then the questions start...so what do you eat?
"Well I eat nothing processed", there's not a lot of candy, cheetos, pizza etc that I can eat. It's fun to watch people process in their head what I can't eat.
Then that runs into all the "truths" of obese people and their brains lock-up, because they can't resolve the "truths" against what is obviously my reality.
I must say I take great pleasure, especially around health professionals.