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Rachel Marsden. A poor man's Anne Coulter.
A poor, and ignorant man.
Yes, I guess I am. Sorry, but I read the newspapers, climate change and other items and I just got very annoyed. I guess I don't understand how thoughtful people can associate with such a mean little group of pseudo-humans.
I'm serious. I'm no party partisan, as you know, but I have an almost palpable hatred for Conservatives. Not small-c conservatives, many who I think are just ill-informed but mean well, but big-C Conservatives who are for all intents and purposes Republicans. I mean, the Liberals, you know, they may mis-govern but their intentions, while they may be corrupt, are not purposefully malevolent. They are for the Harper regime. They know what they're doing. They know the consequences of their actions. They embrace racism and hatred. They embrace climate change as a "business opportunity". They know many will suffer and many will die. They know northern cultures face extinction. They count on it. All that matters to them are the greenbacks.
Oh my scrunchy confused face was not about your comment, it was about tommy's...
But I agree and share your sentiments about big C conservatives and have seen 1st hand insider close up front and personal what they do to get what they want.
Well that's odd, because I hold the Liberals in more disdain than the Conservatives.
Which doesn't mean I like Conservative policy in part or in whole more than I like Liberal "policies". In fact, there's no shortage of things to be alarmed about when it comes to the prospect of a Conservative government anywhere.
But with the Conservatives, I feel my enemies are before me. It's plain. While they can anger me, they cannot elicit the disgust I have for Liberals.
Because Liberals do the same things as Conservatives do, ultimately. And they treat us like they are our buddies, that they have real concern for us when they need something, like our votes, but when we expect the delivery of the quid pro quo, they always have a reason for why they can't deliver.
They are a perfidious bunch, and as such prove a bigger obsticle, a more insidious enemy than Conservatives when it comes to issues of social justice, equity, and good government.
When I was young, I tore through a number of James A. Michener books. I'll always remember one vignette he included. It involved a governor of some Byzantine or Roman province, who would entertain people by throwing the condemned in a pit with wild dogs.
When they wanted to be particularly cruel, and provide bonus entertainment, they'd give the condemned a stick to fight back with, to prolong the suffering before the inevitable outcome.
The Liberals are the ones giving us sticks all the time. They know it, and they laugh about it when they lunch with the banks, and their Conservative buddies.
See, I diagree, Tommy. Doesn't mean I can't be wrong, but I don't see Liberals as intentionally cruel whereas Conservatives are. In fact Conservatives seem to revel in cruelty. And I think that's one of the fundamental differences between those of us we describe as "progressives" and those who are Conservative (maybe Liberals are simply a cacth-all for some progressives, some Conservatives, and many opportunists), is that as much as we'd like not to we'd still throw a life preserver to a drowning Conservative even while knowing they'd take joy in watching us go under.
I mean, I can't imagine some of what we witnessed such as the women trapped in Africa, or Canadians left to suffer in Lebanon, or their murders shrugged off by a heartless government would occur even under Jean Chretien--the most conservative Liberal government in my memory.
Even if the Liberals wouldn't do the right thing by the planet, at least they weren't actively working as planet killers either. The Conservatives are. They have taken Canada across the line from merely irresponsible to actively criminal and with reprecussions that will kill people.
I would like to see them on trial.
It's still within living memory that the Liberal policy on Jewish immigration to Canada was "None is too many."
And a more recent look behind the Liberal mask shows us Cotler putting his okay to our anti terrorism laws which fly in the face of the famous charter of rights the Liberals are so proud of.
They are proud of the optics of civil rights, but in practice no huge fans of it. Which party, after all, actually did put "Soldiers in our Streets with guns" as the anit Harper Liberal adds of a few years ago put it?
Why, our warm and fuzzy Liberals.
As for the instance you point to, I would say that the Conservatives are busy putting thier stamp on things, but they are still working with a foriegn affairs department that is very much the construction of several generations of "The Natural Ruling Party."
Yes, but while the Liberals did say "One is too many" way back when, the Conservatives now display the same moral cowardice but with a mean streak that is unparalleled. When did the Liberals ever turn their backs on Canadians in a war zone? When did they ever cut funding to an organization associated with critics? When before did nations ever walk out en masse on a Canadian delegation?
And while they did put soldiers on the street they shot no one. Do you believe the Harperites would hestitate to shoot anyone not quite Canadian or Conservative enough? See Rachel Marsden's column to identity a true Canadian.
I don't much like the Liberals. But I do think enough of them could be persuaded that the threat posed by climate change is serious enough to warrant serious action. The difference would be the Conservatives know just how serious it is, that it will cause catastrophe and lead to many, many deaths and they are counting on it. It is built into their policies for Northern pillaging.
Their policies and choices are informed and purposeful.
CON'T THREAD DRIFT in response to FM's hope/wish/belief that perhaps "enough of them [liberals] could be persuaded that the threat posted by climate change is serious enough to warrant serious action", and other "back to the future" thinking:
Kyoto questions will dog IgnatieffGoing Back
But Liberals promised in the 1993 election to reduce Canada's greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by 20% below 1988 levels by 2005, far tougher than Kyoto's standard of an average 6% below 1990 levels between 2008 and 2012.
Despite this pledge, when Liberals lost power in 2006 after 12 years in government, 10 with a majority, Canada was 30% behind its Kyoto target. Therefore, why should Canadians believe anything Liberals say about the environment, renewable energy, global warming or Kyoto?
To the Future
You have called Alberta's oilsands vital to our economy but many Liberals join environmentalists in bashing the oilsands and calling Canada one of the world's worst polluters.
I thought the article was interesting, particularly where Green jobs are concerned.
And I don't think that Iggy and the libs have credibility on the environment - fool me once, fool me twice, fool me three times
END OF THREAD DRIFT
Some choice disingenuous liars or bare faced liars. I choice neither
*sigh*
Why can't I compare and contrast political parties without having to be choosing one or without having to be defending one? Is Tommy a conservative by your reckoning because he thinks the Liberals are the greater of the two evils? Holy fuck. This is why I spend more and more time away from here.
I don't give a shit what the Liberals did. I am not choosing between liars. I am arguing that while the Liberals may be a bunch of self-serving, corrupt politicians, they are not the malevolent, evil fuckers that Conservatives are. Is that plain enough? Can I be a critic of the Conservatives without being a Liberal, NDPer, or Green?
Fuck.
Personally, I never distinguish between the large C Liberals and the large C Conservatives, they are all large C Conservatives to me.
It is just expedianent for them to be in differing parties in order to control, no matter what the voters choose.
Personally believe there is not much difference in making passive aggressive threats and actions, to garner societal submission, than perhaps shooting a couple of people, to gain the same submission effect.
You could be right. But I would suggest reading the article linked in the OP for Michelle's thread entitled "Moving Left". If we all ended up in hell we might find ourseleves mixing with Liberals and Democrats and Greens, the apathetic, the cynical, and the lazy. But it is the Conservatives who will be recruited to carry the picthforks and who will believe they have landed in heaven.
Why can't I compare and contrast political parties without having to be choosing one or without having to be defending one?
For what it's worth, my wife shares your view point and whenever I go off on the Liberals, she is less kind in discussing the subject than anyone here. She was a single mom and student under the Harris regime, while I was working scads of overtime 200km away in a different lifetime.
So, I see those points made by yourself and others about Conservatives, and I don't think it can be characterized as "wrong", and this shouldn't be cause for bitter debate.
On the other hand, I think even amoung the left the Liberals too often benifit from contrast to the Conservatives, and we tend to forget that they have done us some exquisite nasties also.
And, in the political arena, for whatever shape the left takes, the Liberals will always be the first stumbling block to actually getting anything done.
Oh, I wanted to address one more point.
When did the Liberals ever turn their backs on Canadians in a war zone?
Hmm. How about the whole Canadian 1st Division in Italy.
Conscription if necessary, but not necessarily conscription.
Unlike the liberals I don't like my protests with pepper spray or like to see my leaders beating vocal opponents about the head with picket signs. Harper is evil but so was Cretien and Martin. Who the fuck do you think it was that gutted our UI and stole the money from the coffers to give tax breaks to the corporations. I agree their are more dupes in the liberal party i.e. people who actually believe the liberals are kinder and gentler but they never get anywhere near the power centres when the party is in government. I think they are more dangerous because they suck the life out of the opposition to Bay Street and Howe Street.
I disagree. Tommy mentioned Harris. How many people in Ontario who have never voted Liberal let loose a sigh of relief when McGuinty defeated that guy who replaced Harris ... whatisname? I bet there was a lot more than just me. And I'll bet a lot of NDPers voted Liberal last time around, holding their noses and denying it if asked, to prevent John Tory and his Band of Religious Schoolers from gaining office.
And when people vote strategically, right or wrong, because they want to keep Harper from a majortiy, who do you think, most often, they're voting for? And why?
Because the Liberals are not on a mission from God to destroy the earth and bring about the end times. Because while the Liberals may be corrupt, they don't really get any joy from making single mothers suffer. Because the Liberals, while they may be pro-Israeli (depending on which way the wind is blowing), they don't really believe all Arabs and muslims are terrorists (except for the "moderates" who will denounce all Arabs and muslims as terrorists).
The Liberals are all you say they are but they're not mean and ugly like the Conservatives.
ETA:
Of course you are right.
The Liberals are really nice if you like your abusers to kiss you nicely first. We have the BC Liberals here and they all seem to get along fine within their big tent. They also talk about how compassionate they are. I care about what people do in office not what they say to get elected. In BC the liberals are every bit as nasty as the Harris Cons were in Ontario. To me it is not just a coincidence that both federal Cons. and federal Libs. feel quite at home in the BC Liberals.
We should have a Liberal vs. Conservative smack down event in another thread devoted entirely to that subject.
Well at least there seems to be a consensus on Rachel Marsden. I just don't get how a person who has lied under oath can get any media coverage.
Um.... because the media are all liars in the first damn place so they care little?
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