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Isn't your nose firmly up the ass of Layton? Funny you should say that, remind, as I never mentioned Layton. I only asked if the feds were disowning him. So perhaps your comments reflect your feelings about the federal NDP, in light of another cheap NDP sellout, than anyone else's.
That someone else's arse is Uncle Sam's. And they've had their heads inserted in it since at least the 1950's. But let's not sully the record of our two pro-USSA old line parties now with Gary Doer a perfectly good scapegoat. Their patriotism is about five decades too late to amount to anything, but what they heck. Better late and way off target than never I always say.
You continue to make charges of partisanship FM, in order to; bash like there is something wrong with being partisan, and to allude to a notion that I cannot think clearly because of it, and it will get fucking nasty, quickly. I will no longer tolerate such, just as I will no longer tolerate misogyny here.
Have absolutely no qualms about making it as unpleasant as I can, if so, as it seems some people are going to go right back to the smears and oblique attacks against babblers, same as they always did, which created the fucking mess we have been addressing recently, in the first place.
It is corrosive, demeaning to all, and debilitating and more importantly it fratures what could be strong alliances to create much needed change.
Must you always play into the hands of those who would have it so?
Oh just ignore them, remind. They've got chips on their shoulders and former politicians who had nothing to do with pawning off the environment to private enterprisers to pelt with eggs. We'd best stand out of the way of the crazed villagers, because they mean business. Big business.
deleted
Maybe the article below outlines change of Mr Doer's view in regards to oil.
"Manitoba has dethroned both Saskatchewan and Alberta as the most attractive Canadian province or territory for oil and gas investment, according to an international survey of petroleum executives and managers released today by independent research organization the Fraser Institute."
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/newsandevents/news/6766.aspx
What o you mean enough of the misogynist BS, it is a huge problem here, and I am not going to tolerate it, just as I am not going tolerate slams of partisanship.
You do not have a better argument than that, say nothing, as it is just a divisive smear.
Saying you are partisan, which you don't deny you are, and you are, is misogynstic? How? Please explain to me and the world how? Fidel is as partisan as they come. Is saying that misogynistic? If not, why not? If yes, why?
Sorry did not mean to skew it that way towards to you, as was not meaning you were a misogynist, i was just lumping the 2 together as things that were equal and that I have stopped tolerating here. And that blurred what I was saying.
My apologies I in no way think you are misogynist. Just anti-partisan and anti-NDP.
You do not seem to care whether or not the LibCons stay in power as you are spreading their false meme, of no oneis any different so it might as well be us.
And yes you were smearing partisan NDPers, and again I will not tolerate it.
Sheesh. All I did was ask how Layton felt - Saturday night he's celebrating at a fete for Doer, then Sunday Doer comes up with this outrageous statement about the tar sands.
Apololgy accepted. Thank you. In appreciation I have amended or deleted my comments.
But you're wrong on the issue. I'm not anti-NDP. I am anti-partisan, however. I believe in issues and purposes as opposed to sides and teams.
When NDPers engage in making excuses or trying to sweep actions like that of Doer under the rug and pretend it is not endemic does not serve the interests of those in the NDP who believe in real change. In fact, to be authentic, the strongest criticism ought to becomimg from NDPers. In some cases, it is. I am not arguing this is a reason for NDPers to leave their party. It is a reason for NDPers to insist on principals and values being first before expediency and electability. Electing Conservatives and Liberals dressed in orange is no improvement.
"Electing Conservatives and Liberals dressed in orange is no improvement."
I agree with that, and as a partisan NDPer, have done lots to get those who were the hell out, and in one case it meant criminal charges. So it really tees me off to say that I am so partisan, I cannot see.
And why not? The Yanks have siphoned off nearly all of the cheapest and most accessible crude oil reserves in conservative Alberta. It's not our fossil fuel anyway. 60% of all fossil fuels produced in Canada is their's since NAFTA. There will be no money from Ottawa for Canadian oil companies or energy nationalism whatsoever in Canada if the two old line parties have anything to do with it. How can we weep tears over something that was pawned off to private enterprise and mainly US interests years ago? Talk about delayed reaction! It's 2009 not 1989 or even 1994. That ship left port years ago, when the NDP was fighting against foreign ownership and control of our natural resources and energy.
I appreciate you are but one person, still, if you were more succesful we could have avoided this particular embarrassment and the one who just replaced him (not to mention Bob Rae).
It's all over now, baby blew.
Gee, all I did was try to attack and ridicule Doer - which I've been doing for years - and people here start attacking and ridiculing each other! How about a little self-control, folks?
Layton praised Doer on the day he quit as Premier, and he praised him on the very next day when he was named U.S. ambassador. Your question is spot on. Obviously Doer no longer represents the NDP - BUT LAYTON DOES. He is absolutely responsible to the entire party for the public statements he issues. If he doesn't condemn this latest bootlicker of Stephen Harper, the clear and obvious conclusion is that LAYTON AGREES WITH HIM. Had he kept his mouth shut in August, he could of course remained in hiding now and offered a "NO COMMENT". But it's way too late and disingenuous to try that now.
When the federal NDP stops disciplining its most left wing MP's for voting against the US style get tough on crime bullshit and starts acting like a socialist party I will stop thinking they are merely third way sell outs. They have co-opted the left side of Canada's political spectrum to move it to the centre. No they are not as bad as the Lib/Con they are only out of power. If the Liberals collapse they will replace them and become the new liberal party same old same old.
In the meantime I will continue to work to elect my NDP MP because he is worth fighting to send to Ottawa.
What about those politicos who signed FTA and NAFTA? Or was that too long ago to even mention? Short term memories perhaps?
I think the way provincial NDP governments look at the old line party betrayals on energy is that if the stuff has to be siphoned off to the States under NAFTA trade rules signed by Tories and Liberals, then we might as well try and create a few jobs here in Canada. The way the pollution distribution pipeline is setup now and liquification of tar sands technology capable of carrying it ALL to the US and Great Lakes regions to pollute and poison the environment there, shouldnt we at least have a few refining jobs in Canada? The NDP is still trying to turn old line party lemons for dumb-dumb trade deals with the Yanks into lemonade, but our stoogeocrats in Ottawa would let it all go south if they have it their way.
Likewise. At least my MP took some risks to defend his beliefs about the environment.
And when conventional oil reserves run dry in Alberta in a few years' time, maybe we can buy dirty tar sands oil from Venezuela and have it shipped directly to the US. Maybe our old line party idiots can at least avoid paying carriage fees in abiding by NAFTA, the stupidest trade deal in the history of the world.
Nope, no one I know has ever gone to a going away, or retirement, party for someone whom they worked with, and didn't agree with on all things.
Never seen it before ever.
Afterall...they might just get painted with the same brush of the former collegue, by those who did not like him, even though they have lived thier lives in direct contrast to what said person who is leaving has espoused.
Frankly, I thought such small mindedness went out of progressive discourse, especially from those of us who have brethern that we do not agree with, perhaps on nothing even, but associate with anyway. And we even go to going away parties for them, without worry that some would paint us like our departing brethern.
The NDP's plan on energy is to actually have a made-in-Canada national energy policy written by Canadians and not dictated to us from corporate board rooms in America, the way it is now since Tory and Liberal trade betrayals wrt FTA-NAFTA.
You're ignoring the topic, remind. Doer gave a defense - and a misleading one, at that - of the filthy tarsands the day after his farewell party. The question I asked is how Layton feels about Doer's comments, the day after he celebrated an evening with Doer.
And I said "why should he feel anything."
I stand by that.
We are not responsible for the sins and comments of others.
Gary Doer was already in love with the tar sands while he was still the NDP premier. Earlier this year:
Rainforest Action Network activist
Nope, not on my part, nor on most's, I suspect, but apparently you were, as you started this topic as if it were something new and amazing...
Keep in mind that as Canada's ambassador Doer must put forth the position of the government in all Canada-US matters regardless of what his personal opinions are (not that I actually believe he has any). The real issue here is the policy of the Canadian government, and bashing Doer over this (much as I dislike him) is a distraction.
Anyways, as I said earlier, I don't think Doer has any strong beliefs. How else can his moves to protect the east side of Lake Winnipeg as a UNESCO heritage site be reconciled with his defence of the tarsands?
You're right, A24 - but knowing that Doer will merely be a shameless mouthpiece for Harper, why would Layton sing the praises of this appointment (as opposed to just thanking him for his past service and wishing him well)?
That has a very easy answer; not all Manitobans and NDPers, or even Canadians, are you.