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Yes but the flag could merely get you chastised, suspended maybe even banned. Yarg sees it I think as more dangerous when people will hunt you outside of this forum to get you slandered, libelled and I think in Martin's hopes, this woman pilloroied, [removed by moderator] and publically shamed. All because she disagrees with him. More the actions of [removed by moderator] than a feminsit ally, in my opinion.
God damn right!
Personal attack? You who are one of the most vicsious on this board have the gall to say that my dislike of martin is a personal attack? You know, You're lucky that out of all the people you've upset, pissed off and personally attacked that you don't get suspended. Have a look in the mirror. Accept responsibility for your own actions. And the only reason you consider martin an ally is because he sides with you on the prostitution debate.
What martin did was slander michelle and babble and all you can do is defend martin? Like he's a wee little boy who needs defending. [Remark removed by moderator]
Yes I know...no more attacks on poor wee martin. Or poor wee remind (but I see she gets free reign to attack and yell slander in every two or three posts she makes).
I've never dealt with Martin, but I have to say this pile-on is disturbing. That's all.
This is not an abstract discussion or a discussion in which reputations are the most important thing although I must say I was more than once and more than a little annoyed by the use of Vancouver Rape Relief's name and the need for me to involve myself to defend it and the name of AWAN. So when we talk about political capital maybe that could be kept in mind too.
Whether or not Martin should have taken the situation "out of the family" and whether too many people on babble are into "gottcha" cat and mouse word games seems to me much less serious than what is happening when prostituted children are discussed as a sad by product as collatoral damage of prostitution rather than as than a key fact about the industry.
Whether or not Susan mispoke of those children as "sex workers" rather than rape vicitms and thought herself powerless when she wasn't to make things different is less important o me than whether or not we use the ways we have to intervene to save those kids and to prevent more kids from beeing put in the situations of abuse. Neither Rabble nor Susan nor Martin nor Infosaturated who was banned in my opinion unfairly are at any real and significant risk here but the children and women faced with pimps and johns are at risk. And since we agree that it is more than a little difficult to act on thier behalf once they are caught perhaps we could put some attention to preventing the increase of kids in those situations
boy you 2 men sure are supposing, martin's motives, suggest you do not...
... if you think i have lived my life this long, without understanding who my allies are quite quickly, thus indiicating i cannot understand, you would be being very wrong, plus a bunch of other stuff.
also can pick out abusive spouse types a mile away...
there is no need to "hunt" anyone, susan davis is a public lobbyist and martin also is a public figure who also uses his own name too....
this is not about any type of interpersonal disgreements, IMV, i do not think martin has that small of a focus.
No I am sure you understand, making your actions deliberate. Yes indeed. And read posts from yourself and others in the past. We all suppose peoples motives, everyday in every discussion.
Look...could say the same back at cha, and about everyone here as a matter of fact... at any given point, so how about you just stop with this? In fact I see our being able to bicker with one another as a form of trust, you do not bicker with someone if you do not trust them...
as such, I was making a point about how we see our own allies...and to attack someone as not being an ally to ALL feminist when some see them as an ally, in the bigger sense, had to be addressed.
You cannot speak for all femiinsts about martin's credentials as an ally, or lack thereof.
Responsible for what actions stargazer?
and his being somewhere in this prostitution debate means nothing to me in respect to my perceptions of him as an ally of feminists.
actually i did not anywhere defend him or his actions in this respect, all i stated was that snert was not an ally of miine, while i believe martin is...
but hey, carry on....taking exception to my choices in life, as a feminist, if it makes you feel better.
.
.
Over the top Stargazer, let's not go there, shall we?
It's been building for some time.
I speak for myself, which was pretty clear.
Sorry oldgoat.
what actions bacchus? what actions of mine were deliberate? Please do enlighten me....
and you know what, i knew if stepped in, and said anything that could be considered in the least little bit supportive of martin, the pile on would happen to me too....and so it did
so happens i do not believe he was all correct, nor do i believe rabble babble was either ...and i have every right to hold that opinion and be supportive of both....and to dispair for all
and i should not have had to fear attack for it either...
Am I attacking you? I did not see myself acting thusly.
This thread must be a nightmare for the mods. Mods: you have a tough job and I feel bad that now you have this to deal with.
Is there really any point in arguing about who is attacking who and whether something is an attack? If it is an attack, a mod will advise.
Bit of a thread drift, however if I was Susan I would be somewhat upset if my comments where posted to a forum that I was not taking part of and was not able to defend myself.
I discovered this yesterday, when someone on another forum had made comments about me. I was a bit ticked off.
I am in full agreement with writer's letter. I'm disinclined to post much at babble, due to it feeling like a pretty toxic environment. I feel like Martin's general behaviour on babble is a good example of this toxicity, although there are certainly other examples.
In no way am i surprised by the disregard Martin has shown the babble community by his action.
Respect to the moderators who keep at it despite being constantly slagged by the ingrates who post here.
Hey all, I just got home from work and supper out (I figured I deserved it tonight). :D
I'm going to close this thread, and I may be editing some of your posts. Sorry to do that, but despite my feelings about what Martin did, and as much as I appreciate the support most of you have shown Susan and I and babble, some of the things people have been saying about Martin are a bit over the top, especially since Martin uses his real name here. I realize that a lot of resentment has been building over a while, so I understand why people are posting what they're posting, but I need to remove some of it.
As for Martin: oldgoat and I are agreed that Martin will no longer be allowed to post on babble. We consider his post on the PAR-L list to be a misrepresentation and therefore an attack on our website. We have no obligation whatsoever to allow someone who attacks our site, our staff, and our users in such a manner to continue posting here. Martin is banned from posting on babble as of now. Please don't start new threads pleading his case or denouncing him - the decision is final and backed by the publisher.
Thanks again to babblers for your support. This day would have sucked a lot more without it. ;)
Cheers Michelle!
I hope one day someone will explain to me what happened here.