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This person has caused a lot of Canada's problems in recent times, and he needs to be taken down a notch or three.
Hillier as Chief of the Defence StaffOn February 4 2005, he became Chief of the Defence Staff. At the change-of-command ceremony he repeated his call, more broadly, for increased military funding. "In this country, we could probably not give enough resources to the men and women to do all the things that we ask them to do," he said, with Prime Minister Paul Martin and Defence Minister Bill Graham looking on. "But we can give them too little, and that is what we are now doing. Remember them in your budgets."[5] His willingness to speak openly and on the record about the Canadian Forces' financial resources, and about the Defence budget in particular, distinguishes Hillier from previous Chiefs of the Defence Staff.[citation needed]
After his appointment, Hillier maintained a very high profile, frequently talking with the media and arguing his case for defence planning. He has been called the most prominent Chief of the Defence Staff in decades, with popularity not just in the military, but among a broad spectrum of Canadian civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hillier
Absolutely - I even watched Battle of Algiers very recently for the first time in decades - would love to see Z again, it had a major influence on my world view at the time. You're quite right, today's events are a case of nature imitating art. Nothing much has changed.
When was the trial? Or, in your world, is a trial is an unnecessary nuisance when it conflicts with your agenda?
I thought labeling was contrary to babble policy, or is that policy also only reserved for those who do not drink from your poisoned chalice?
The intent to paint me an "Islamophobic troll" contrary to any evidence or even the courtesy of asking my position is simply a disingenuous attempt to frame my stance on issues in an unfavourable light that, if repeated often enough, will have me banned.
Your alarcity, unionist, to use foul play to furthur your biases stand in stark contrast with your perpetual claim to all the moral high ground. Your reach exceeds your grasp and, it does you no justice.
Canuquetoo get off your high horse. While I wouldn't necessarily characterize you as "Islamiphobe", at least based on this thread, your remarks about "Afghan tribal culture" reek of white western privlige and superiority. Stop it. If you don't like unionists posts don't read them.
The image that you refer to as "the dude in the hoody" has become a symbol for the issue of torture by western forces in Iraq. I'm a bit shocked anyone would not be familiar with it.
Google Abu Ghraib and just look at images. A picture is worth a thousand words. See what's been done in our name. Tribalism indeed.
I would hope that folks are not shooting from the hip here. The misuse of one word should not bring out the politically correct lynch mob. It has happened before, with tragic results.
Lies based on lies based on lies. The entire setup often looks so utterly corrupted that the nazipoohs can race around knocking over fax like they was bowling pins (and the nazipoohs themselves bowlingballs) w/out worrying what the OPPOSITION says- and get this: the media is liberal, so whattaya expect? Meanwhile, on cbc's 'Ideas' the other evening Paul Kennedy was talking with some phony liberal frontman named 'Wolf' who is selling a doorstopper ('the case for liberalism'?) and ...well, didya know the junyer Kristol is a 'romantic' for thinking western democracy/freedom can be transplanted to Iraq/Afghanistan etc via shock'n'awe warfare? And the geebush admin was the most 'conservative' in US history? And liberal ignatief knows that terrorism has got to be fought, which hamstrings his criticisms (and nevermind that the US, Britain and Israel- along with their puppet states re saudia arabia- spend two thirds of entire global military budget, whilst 'alciada' doesn't even have a state base to operate in)... How do you fight such seamless dishonesty? It's a plain fact they say, that the 'war' in Afghanistan has been going on for 'generations' according to the talkers on 'Sunday Edition' (actually, Afghanistan was easily one of freest places on earth up until late 70's-there was a huge 'hippie' colony there of western expats- and that was while it was considered under the Soviet umbrella...the carter cia then began funding the 'muhajadeen'in order to ruin the USSR, which the MSM has been celebrating recently, as if nobody recalls the real history)
If the liars weren't so untterly despicable, there'd be no inspiration to carry on, imho. The people really seem bovine indifferent, or overwhelmed.
LTJ -
I couldn't find a petition to charge HarperCo with war crimes yet.
Would you consider writing one for us?
http://www.gopetition.com/howtostartapetition.php
David Swanson at AfterDowningStreet has done some great work on justice.
Update: He's pretty busy but says he is pleased we are working on this and invites us to go to this link
http://davidswanson.org/lists
We should start a separate thread to list the official and unoffial lies
THREE COLOSSAL LIES TOLD TO CANADIANS AS TO WHY CANADIAN TROOPS ARE IN AFGHANISTAN
1. Canadian military is there in Afghanistan because Afghans and Iraqis planned and executed 9/11. (It was actually planned and carried out on US soil by the US military, CIA, and their "al-CIA'duh" pals )
2. We're there to liberate women
3. We're there to stem the evil tide of terrorism.(Our largest trading partners are the world's foremost exporter of terrorism and torture)
This is not who we are. I hope HarperCo has not ripped the heart right out of the country.
Sure puts Harper's "Defense" budget in a different light.
War crimes charges? An election? It's the perfect time to kick the blighters out.
UNICEF Smurf anti-war video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MAYrF1PDks
And Jason Kenney wants new immigrants to learn about the Canadian Military:
http://www.610cktb.com/news/14/1020199
I'd like Kenney to learn something from the military too - the 5BX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5BX
Hey, Canuqetoo, this is just par for Babble. Trolls and trash if you're not one of "them" and like unionist said - "not worth responding to". Don't know what's wrong with calling a tribe a tribe.
You don't like my comment - so you attack babble? And you "don't know what's wrong with calling a tribe a tribe"? Which tribe is that? Which tribe, kathleen? Which tribe was your buddy referring to? Did you catch the name? Or since they're Afghans, you and your buddy can just assume they're part of some "tribe" which doesn't allow them to appreciate Canadian largesse?
It's racism, western supremacism, xenophobia, and Islamophobia. We are all prone to it, because we are raised to be so superior to third world people (including the indigenous people right here) that we can even justify sending troops with guns to murder them, without having received an invitation, and think that we're doing something good. You may not like the terminology, but it's better to call this behaviour what it is, than to succumb to it - don't you think? And if you don't know what's wrong with it, then I feel sorry for you.
Torture and abuse of prisoners by Americans at Abu Ghraib, Iraq. Remember Pvt. Lindy England? If not, watch the DVD "Taxi to the Dark Side", if you have the opportunity.
Does anyone really think this latest 'scandal' will cause any self examination whatsoever within any political party? Yes it's once again temporary news and political vendors will be selling quotes of outrage. So get your quotes while their hot because when the next election comes there will only be tumbleweeds rolling across the foreign policy landscape. And I most certainly include my own party.
Thanks for the lecture. I'm an ordinary progressive Canadian, not a PhD of political correctness.
People get excited here, canuquetoo, and forget others would like to join in without fear. My use of "tribal" (once) has led me to shun the word hereabouts - even though it was used in the most innocuous fashion. It is too bad, since it's very difficult to discuss some events without its use. But those events are never discussed, because the politically correct will not let one get farther than our imperial past. We are bound to wear that damned bird around our necks forever, and never come to grips with the new reality of the new "imperialisms" on the rise. We created them, you see, and now have to do penance (well, not we, but our forbears) and never ever forget.
By the way, I hear over CBC radio that now Walt Natynczyk has weighed in saying that yep, Canadian Forces have had to from time to time stop handing over prisoners. (That's all I caught).
I agree, I think this issue will get no real traction.
I can only paraphrase Orwell: 'all pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal than others' when I ponder babble policy de jure and babble policy de facto.
While lurking, I thought babble was an interesting place for an inquiring mind but after dealing with unionist's relentless non-sequitur that disagreeing with his position equals disagreeing with the anti-war movement and experiencing oldgoat's dedication to inclusiveness and diversity, the potential here for open discussion seems limited.
After spending good money on Pervez Musharraf's self-serving autobiography, I wouldn't waste the breath needed to stand at the till to purchase Hillier's drivel. I did, however, get good value for the amount spent to purchase Sarah Chayes' excellent work: The Punishment of Virtue which goes into some detail about the tribal culture of southern Afghanistan and the intricacies of inter-tribal relations. This, plus reading South Asian papers online, is the basis for my arguments that American policy is counterproductive and harming efforts to form a central government because Afghans have tribal based cultures that do not lend themselves to centralised control.
This umbrage at the usage of "tribal" is a strawman to use as another club against any poster with the temerity to challenge the ideology of the more extreme element of babble.
For the moderators, de facto enforcement of policy is more the convenience of moving the saltbowl to regulate those who sit below the salt (with apologies to Thomas B. Costain) than principled enforcement of policy de jure.
The problem was not the use of the word "tribal", but the imperialist racist arrogance of denigrating Afghans, and this is the "sad part", of being too backward in their culture to distinguish between Nice White Western Invaders (Canadians and their aid efforts) and the Bad Guys. They're not advanced enough to see that We Are Their Friends.
But I didn't realize that that information came from a book, so I retract my umbrage.
When news of the torture broke, it was the result of the release of the Abu Ghraib torture photos, the hooded man being one of them. Photos and motion picture images were taken by U.S. Army prison guards with their cell phones and camcorders. Some of the torture was extracurricular activity that the soldiers did for their "amusement". Behavior that was endorsed by then U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in his infamous "Torture Memo".
Concerning this particular photograph, the hood was used as a blindfold - part of sensory deprivation. The man could have been exposed to loud heavy metal music or the drone of the fans that made the prison cells uncomfortably cold (many were in fact, subjected to this). Temperature was varied from uncomfortably cold to uncomfortably warm.
This particular man was forced to stand on a box with his arms outstretched in the manner as you can see by the image, for hours. This is called a "stress position". Wires were placed on his fingers of both hands. I believe a wire was also placed around his penis. He was ordered to maintain this position. He was also told (in this particular case actually not true) that if he changed his position, the movement would be sensed by the wires and that he would be shocked by jolts of electricity.
This and in other sickening ways, is how amateur "prison guards" at Abu Ghraib, Iraq and Bagram, Afghanistan prisons (keep in mind, before the treaty Gen. Rick Hillier signed with the Karzai government concerning the handing of PoWs to Afghan authorities, the Canadian military handed Afghan PoWs to the U.S. Like the U.S., the Canadian military took a dragnet approach and captured large numbers of prisoners - all to please the Bush administration and the Pentagon) amused themselves.
All in the name of fighting the" War on of Terror".
Of all the military persons I've heard on this subject, only former Gen. Rick Hillier supports the government and attempts to discredit Richard Colvin. All the others support Mr. Colvin.
I fear Hillier may be harboring future political aspirations. He only seems to be concerned about his own worthless hide and is not too concerned about the image of the Canadian military that only just recently he was the head of.
Gar Pardy, retired ambassador and Director General of Consular Services, was interviewed on The National this evening. Here's what he said about Peter MacKay's assault on Richard Colvin:
Asked about culpability on the part of those who handed over detainees, or knew of the risk of torture and did nothing:
These are from my notes. You can watch the broadcast here - the Colvin affair is the first item, starting with Natynczyk's comments.
PMO Issued Instructions on Denying Abuse in 07: Former NATO official says response to reports was 'scripted' in Ottawa
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/729157--pmo-iss...
"Prime Minister Stephen Harper's office used a "6000 mile screwdriver" to oversee the denial of reports of Afghan detainee abuse when the scandal first erupted in 2007, according to a former senior NATO public affairs official who was then based in Kabul.
Only the Losers Need to Fear War Crime Laws:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/728888
"In its handling of Afghan prisoners, the Canadian government appears to have committed two types of offences. The first and most serious - crimes against humanity - will almost certainly not result in any sanction.."
It's Not Somalia But It's the Same in Many Ways
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/728959--travers...
[Like the NDP, Hillier an Obama Fan]: One Year to Turn Afghanistan Around:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/729049--one-yea...
Looks like it's going to be a bad week for politicians
Leaked documents reveal No 10 cover-up over Iraq invasion• Inquiry to hear how Blair hid true intentions for war
• Military 'ill-prepared' for aftermath of invasion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/22/iraq-invasion-no10-cover-up
And another bad week, to add to a series of bad weeks, and months, and years, coming up for the Liberals as well.
Human rights mess goes beyond Tories
Conservatives did not initiate the culture of casual indifference to Canada's legal humanitarian obligations that has surfaced periodically in the national capital over the past decade, although they did reinforce it.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/729401--h-eacut...
Did Hillier's "murderers and scumbags" comment encourage Canadian arrests of innocent Afghanis who were tortured?
Journalist Bruce Wark reports:
http://bit.ly/73CD5k
I tire of your righteous indignation, Unionist. I was interested in what Canuquetoo had to offer. You were intent on shutting it down.
Thanks for the lecture.
No problem. Canadians whose country sends expeditionary forces to invade others, and teach them how to be "civilized", need to be careful how they look down their noses at "inferior beings" like Afghan "tribes". If that's what you call a "lecture", expect to hear lots more of the same.