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Will Harper Cut Potato Head Loose & Incur the Wrath of Nova Scotians?
December 10, 2009 - 12:31am
-_-
Haven't we been through this saga before? This is not the first time Potato Pete has screwed up but these kind of rumours about his head being on the chopping block have occurred before, and nothing happened. These people are thugs and could care less about doing the honourable thing. Not gonna happen unless Harper's in jeopardy himself, and his way out to save himself is to do MacKay in.
Canada’s Opposition Parties Say MacKay Must Resign
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aScDMIbUm01U
"Potato Head"
Harper, though, has an interest in clipping MacKay's wings, since Peter is one of the viable candidates to replace him. My guess is that once the Commons adjourns there will be a cabinet shuffle, and MacKay will be moved to some other portfolio while Prentice (the other potential threat) will be moved INTO Defence.
Harper has shown that he will not allow the opposition to cause a cabinet minister's resignation regardless of how much scandal is involved.
He will only move a minister when he feels like it and not before. Calling for a minister's resignation often just makes Harper even more stubborn in keeping the minister in place to rub it in the opposition's faces. The agriculture minister was allowed to stay despite making jokes about people dying from poisoned food. Lisa Raitt also stayed in place, as did Tony Clement after his comments earlier this summer.
Still, it's nice to see the Conservatives having a bad week before their Christmas holiday. Hopefully they will lose a couple of points in the polls because of this.
Bernier?
John Ibbitson on why Peter MacKay is safe:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/mackay-may-be-indefensible-but...
Mounties investigate federal role in torture
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/736990--mounties-investigate-federal-role-in-torture?bn=1
Absolutely shameful behaviour by Hillier, Mulroney, MacKay, & rest of Conservative caucus. These people are just low-life bullies. Colvin readies new response to government on tortureCanadian diplomat whose allegations of torture in Afghan prisons has set off a political firestorm is preparing a letter over what he deems to be inaccurate statements
Defence Minister Peter MacKay, who initially said there were “incredible holes” in Mr. Colvin's testimony, has been careful to note over the last few days that his attacks were not personal and aimed what he considered to be Mr. Colvin's hearsay evidence.
Some Conservative MPs were quick to paint his testimony as “ridiculous.”
It has since been revealed that the International Red Cross was also one of the groups warning of torture.
Mr. Colvin claimed that he was muzzled by superiors in Ottawa and was not allowed to write down information that contradicted the government's line on detainees and on the Afghanistan mission itself.
His former boss, David Mulroney, who is now ambassador to China, painted a more nuanced picture in testimony before the committee. Mr. Mulroney said once a collective decision was made on policy, he expected foreign service officers in the field to tow the line.
Mulroney described Colvin's warnings as opinion, rather than fact.
Retired general Rick Hillier, who also appeared before the Commons committee, was more. explicit He described Mr. Colvin's allegations of torture as “ludicrous.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/colvin-readies-new-response-to-government-on-torture/article1395087/
There is a precedent for this: Maxime Bernier. Harpo could quietly behind the scene instruct Potato Head Pete to resign in a 'voluntold' fashion.
Torturegate has now reached the point in Watergate where Nixon, in order to protect the Office of the President, considered it eminently prudent to fire Erlichmann and Haldemann: After that, who is left? Nixon (Watergate) and Harper (Torturegate).
And what happened to Nixon?
Natynczyk's about-face staggers Tories' stories
If the latest bombshell in the Afghan detainee fiasco proves the adage that truth is the first casualty of war, Defence Minister Peter MacKay should probably be the next one.
Either his credibility is in tatters, or he is not competent to hold the job.
On top of it all, as the truth about the Afghan detainee issue continues to leak out, MacKay's recent savaging of diplomatic whistleblower Richard Colvin becomes more reprehensible by the day.
Yesterday, Canada's top general, Walter Natynczyk, admitted an Afghan prisoner captured by Canadian forces in 2006 had been severely beaten after being turned over to local authorities.
The incident was so extreme, Canadian troops took back the prisoner for his own safety.
The chief of defence staff's revelation was an extraordinary about-face, reversing his own testimony before a parliamentary committee just the day before.
Natynczyk's admission also flies in the face of denials by Canadian military brass and their Conservative masters for the past three years -- most notably of late by MacKay.
The general said he wanted to correct the record after receiving a military report yesterday morning, written by a field commander in 2006, detailing the detainee beating.
"I intend to investigate why it took so long to get to the chief of defence staff," Natynczyk told reporters.
Good question.
Rarely have so many officials in high places allegedly known so little about so much over such a long time.
Colvin was Canada's second-ranking diplomat in Afghanistan in 2006 when he wrote over a dozen communiques warning prisoners being turned over to local authorities were probably being tortured.
But somehow not one person in a position of military or political decision-making recalls reading any of Colvin's rockets to them.
http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/greg_weston/2009/12/10/12102...
I am surprised by the Sun article. This could do critical damage to MacKay locally as well. He appears incompetent.
I predict MacKay will get hung out to dry.
I am also going to predict that Elizabeth May returns to Central Nova before the election is called.
The actions of the Conservative government and former Gen. Rick Hillier have tarnished Canada's and the Canadian military's image, both at home and internationally.
Gen. Natynczyk is covering his own and the military's ass.
I will tell you what his military investigation will find: At the very least, the reason why this particular report of transferred Afghan PoW abuse didn't surface until some four years later, is that Natynczyk's predecessor Gen. Hillier "buried" or as Nixon would put it, "deep sixed" it.
Hillier may have acted on his own, in which case responsibility for this war crime rests with him. If he acted the way he should, then he should have been in constant communication with his superiors which would be the Defense Minister (MacKay) and the PMO who would have been informed of the abuse and the instructions to cover up and "deep six" the problem would have come from them and they too, would be culpable in regard to this war crime. The investigation will also reveal how limited or widespread such transferred PoW abuse was/is.
Whoa Nellie, is Hillier's reputation ever going to be destroyed by Walt's military investigation!
Substantial side benefit: deep six Hillier's future political career. [Though he'll still have the consolation of a seven figure income with all the speaker fees and directorships he gets to add to his pension.]
[Sigh] Just like war criminals former Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.
Sgt. Rock and/or Potatoe Head could be charged with war crimes, as FrmrSldr explains.
I would really like to see them both reduced to a pool of their own snot and have to live there for the rest of their miserable lives.
It is said that the one doing the torture often has PTSD as bad as their victims do, so maybe Hillier and MacKay are getting their own negative kharma returned to them in other ways even if Canada does not manage to charge them for war crimes.
They face the prospect of both being brought before Canada's criminal court and the World Court in the Hague over war crimes.
That would certainly be interesting to see!
Whats going to happen is they will blame it on a 'liberal' bureaucrat who didn't pass the information up the chain and that person will be fired showing how responsible and accountable they are.
do not see how they could, given the General's reversal and information otherwise is out there.
... the snowball is rolling down hill, can Harper out run it and leave Mackay in it's path?
My bet is on Harper running, or being carried actually, out of harms way. He will not want his legacy to show he was a war criminal.
I wonder if there is enough hatchets out there though, who have info and would see this as a good time to rid themselves of both Harper and Mackay?
Walt Natynczyk is talking about a 2006 field report written by a Section Commander (a Sergeant) concerning the subsequent torture by Afghan authorities and rescue of a handed over PoW by the Canadian military. That report was 'deep sixed' within the military by the military. That would be then Chief of Defense Staff Gen. Rick Hillier.
The question I have is, did he or did he not inform his superiors: the Defense Department and the PMO.
Harpo and MacKay can't wriggle out of this one by blaming some nameless, faceless (non-existent) public servant.
How soon do you want to bet Hillier holds another news conference to "adjust" his story and protect his reputation?
My bet is sometime in January if the committee investigating goes on break along with the house. However, if the committee continues to meet, and is able to table Colvin's new letter, then Hillier will be re-explaining himself sometime before Christmas.
I'm not sure why MacKay thinks he is going to be the next leader of the Conservatives. He still barely speaks French from what I can tell.
When Hillier first appeared before the House (along with the other generals) to support the government, just look at his testimony. It was full of internal contradictions:
According to Hillier, Colvin did not have substantive evidence that Afghan detainees handed over by the military were tortured by Afghan authorities in 2006. Hillier makes the universal statement that there is no substantive evidence that Afghan transferees were tortured because the military made sure that no one transferred was tortured. Elsewhere, Hillier makes the claim that the military, in fact, had substantive evidence that Afghan transferees were tortured. Acting on this so called "substantive evidence", Hillier and the government stopped Afghan detainee transfers the next year and the year following that - in 2007 and 2008.
Hillier also slammed Colvin's claim that many of the detainees who had been arrested were innocent people...
Here's a quote from the CBC dated Wednesday December 2, 2009:
... "nothing could be further from the truth. We detained, under violent actions, people trying to kill our sons and daughters, who had in some cases done that, been successful at it, and were continuing to do it."
Hillier ignores the fact that we are killing the sons and daughters of the Afghan people in our illegal war of aggression. His argument dovetails with MacKay's that Afghans who legitimately defend their families, homes and country are "Taliban". "Taliban" are terrorists and are, therefore, guilty.
Although he doesn't say it, if we take his statement to its logical conclusion - it would follow: "If any of these detainees were tortured at the hands of the Afghan authorities, they deserved it."
Hillier is a four star clown, a national disgrace and embarrassment.
McKay will not be cut from cabinet, but I think he is finished as Defence Minister. Harper wouldn't even let him answer questions in the HoC. That task was given to John Baird. There are also rumours that the Canadian Forces will not withdraw from Afghanistan at the anticipated 2011 date and Harper will need a minister he can trust if that issue is to be carried through. This was the subtext to the Chief of Staff's comment in the press recently that if he does not receive clearer guidance from the Conservatives, Canadian troops would have to start withdrawing from Afghanistan starting this summer...in other words, to date no order has been given for them to withdraw (despite the legislation) and no order has been given to them to stay. If the opposition can get ahead of this issue, the government might get caught with its pants down if/as it tries to signal for an extension.
If Harper thinks DND is to become a hot file, then my money is for him transfering Baird to that portfolio (as predicted by the Calgary Herald's Don Martin).
As McKay is a potential leadership challenger Harper will want to shunt him somewhere important sounding (like Foreign Affairs before) but a graveyard for political aspirations (like Foreign Affairs). In other words, some file that doesn't give you a high profile on domestic issues and thus the public forgets about you- unless you screw up. Lol, with McKay, there are so many choices.
Remember these comments from this asshole:
Hillier: Torture claims were 'ludicrous;' lacking in substanceFormer military chief says he didn't read diplomat Richard Colvin's warnings at the time, arguing staff found nothing credible
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/hillier-torture-claims-were-ludicrous-lacking-in-substance/article1379526/
And now this:
Afghan detainee timelinehttp://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/12/09/12100716-sun.html
And this:
Anatomy of a spin gone wronghttp://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/12/10/f-vp-newman.html
And this:
Law prof: leaders knew of abuse"The law is clear. Where there are substantial grounds for the risk of torture ... there is an absolute obligation to stop that transfer," said Errol Mendes, from the University of Ottawa, yesterday. "(The law) doesn't say, as (Defence Minister) Peter MacKay keeps on saying in Parliament, that you have to have proven allegations." The international law indicates there need only be substantial grounds for the risk of torture, he said.
The law in question is aiding and abetting a war crime, which is outlined in the Geneva Conventions, and has also been incorporated into the Criminal Code of Canada.
"If there is knowledge or foreseeability that by handing someone over, that person is going to be subject to torture or inhumane treatment, then that could likely constitute aiding and abetting a war crime," said Payam Akhavan, a McGill University law professor with experience in international courts and tribunals.
Both Mendes and Akhavan said any responsibility for the incident lies with the civilian command, not with individual soldiers in Afghanistan.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/prof+leaders+knew+abuse/2323420/story.html
Actually, Chief of Defense Gen. Natynczyk gave a general standing order (back in October, I believe) for his generals and subordinates to draw up plans so that all Canadian Forces personnel and equipment, etc. could be withdrawn, sold or given to the Afghan government (as appropriate) in an orderly fashion by 2011.
That is why the day after, Natynczyk was quietly recalled to Ottawa. That is why we haven't heard anything from him until yesterday.
His motivations are:
1) He wants to undo the damage of his predecessor, Hillier. Hillier tarnished the reputation of the military. Natynczyk wants to restore it.
2) Natynczyk wants to cover his own ass. - Add to edit, a bit too harsh, perhaps(?)
3) Because Natynczyk is no longer in Harper's favor, he no longer owes Harper or the Conservative government and has nothing to lose.
So that explains it. Thanks for that Frmsldr.
What a difference a day makes.
Enough bruises for an inquiryTories have lost all deniability on detainee affair
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=2323082
Natynczyk has been in the various forms of media everyday for the last two weeks taking about the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
NorthReport, have you gone to the Canada Complicit in TORTURE Part 2 thread? There is a good debate on this subject there too.
Hello Webgear, it's good to hear the opinions of a fellow soldier on this subject.
What do you think, are Harper and MacKay right. That this issue tarnishes the military. Or are Colvin and Natynczyk right that it is the Conservative government and Hillier (and his cabal of generals) who have brought disgrace to the military?