babble policy - closing threads policy

i would just like to add that i was on 2 threads today, both of which closed for different reasons... i happened to notice a few threads that went longer then 100 posts in length so obviously their is some leeway that the moderator has, which can imply another aspect of the degree of detachment i mention...

perhaps it's just a coincidence when they do or don't notice... wink, wink...

Well, sandstone... in case you're actually interested in the 'dynamic' here, allow me to show you the post I couldn't make because the thread was closed:

I didn't see anyone else express that sentiment (but if they did, I'm certainly glad).

It's about whining that we're discriminating against your privileged white ass?

Hi sandstone,

If we go by the babble policy on closing threads, given bullet point number 3, the thread in question should have been closed after post #2 by G. Pie and for sure at #4 by Viking77. Off topic.

I'm moving this to rabble reactions, where thoughts, ideas and criticisms of rabble and babble are discussed.

Oh and if this thread can't get back on topic, in other words, stop the sniping all of you who have begun to snipe, guess what? This one will be closed too.

LTJ, please dial it down.

Oh and sandstone, if you refer to other threads, it's helpful to provide links to them, so other babblers know what you're talking about. Please post the link to the other thread you mentioned. Thank you ever so much.

Yes I closed the thread at 99 instead of 100 points. Yes this means that I'm supremely biased and am using my teensy moderator powers to shut down ideas of good hearted babblers. Yes I'm being sarcastic.

Any other questions, my good fellow?

I agree with sandstone that the thread should have been left open but, in my opinion, indefinitely. It could become the catch-all, garbage-dump thread for those who don't want to understand white privilege! Old-time babblers can happily ignore it as it gets heavier and nastier to load, and just refer all those newbies to it to hash out their privileged discourses! It should be a sticky. "Got white privilege and resent being called racist? Over here!"

I will wearily, and warily, draw myself back to the subject of that thread closed in the anti-racism forum. Much more satisfying to talk about biodiesel, and to skip the aggravation of the one who shall not be named and should by rights have been put out earlier.

And I say that having already put together a comment for that thread. I obviously dont have a problem putting words together. But I've been staying away from the anti-racism forum for a long time. I read very little of whats in there, and when I rarely post it would be something carefully limited.

But I set all that aside, and tortured something together. Only to find that while I was doing that, it had been closed, and I didnt copy before hitting the "Post" button. So: gone.

First reaction: "all that effort." But only for a few seconds, then it was relief the thread was gone.

You see Sandstone, stuff like what Viking77 writes kicks up more flashpoints than you could possibly imagine. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you are oblivious to that. There is literally no end to things that SCREAM out they NEED to be replied to, and if you do comment on some of them ["which ones? what about that other one? why am I replying to THIS?" etc]... there's all the new stuff he'll kick up.

Believe me, there is SO much that Stargazer did not say. She was so restrained. Which of course adds to the frustration. And so goes the vicious cycle.

I think I'll just leave it at saying that the best that can be said about contributions that Viking77 made, is that they are really, really, really naive.

And presumably yourself too, by the sounds of it. I remember seeing your name in the thread a lot of times, but don't remember what you said. Viking friend was driving things, and since I was late even reading the thread its hard enough to untangle what is being said by and around one person.

I seem to remember our Viking friend making a comment about having himself found himself living in a place where he was the minority. I think at least he didn't make the mistake of saying how much that taught him. But its proof of how easy it is to not learn.

Everything I've learned about race and being a white person was done in the lab of life. While I've made lots of interventions- its all been ad hoc. No doubt, a number of things I've said to other white folk have been inspired and helpful. But I haven't a clue of a 'system'. I've never taken a workshop in 'how to', and I can't say I have a real good idea how it 'works'. Understanding racism isn't my probelm... its generalizing what to do about it in all those one on one and small group situations.

Nonetheless, I think I've done fairly well in the face to face, These on-line versions don't really involve that many more people than I have dealt with in those face to face. On the surface, its similar. But, oh so different.

The conversations are just too wild- all those incredible number of "loose ends"... even the 6 you can keep in your head at once making you vibrate beyond the possibility of focus. And the more you say, the worse it gets.

Holy cow.

.........

When it comes down to it, thats pretty much it. While naive is human and therefore in principle understandable... your naivete is a luxury that costs other people.

So don't be so fucking naive. Start with realizing you don't know what you are talking about, and what you do think you know is getting in the way.

Where do you start? Or how?

Frankly, I don't know. You might be lucky enough that someone will take you by your hand. But probably not. Meanwhile, your naivete is taking up way too much oxygen.

Hardly fair of me, is it?

But then, what you do is massively unfair. Since you're naive, I guess for now you'll just have to take that on faith.

Even if no one gives you any pointers on where to start- they are out there. If nothing else, unless this is the one and only anti-racism thread you have read, chances are Maysie has pointed sincere beginners to some piece.

And totally clueless, you couldn't do any worse than you are doing now. Literally.

I've gone back and read that closed thread.

Maybe its a good thing I didn't read too closely, because calling you naive now sounds too charitable.

But thats 'only' because I'm allowing you to get under my skin more. Everything I said before still stands.

Maybe I should stick to [unconciously] selective skimming of what you say sandstone. Because I did skim your comment before my post above. Had I read more closely, it might have blown out of the water what I was going to say.

Me "off topic and derailing thread" ?!!?

What the hell do you think is it you did in that closed thread?

As I'm writing I see what I am crossposting with as we speak:

You arrogant piss ass son of a bitch.

Nonetheless, getting back to what I was going to say- and unintentionally answering this last fucking arrogant "point" of yours...

Pray tell me how it is "off topic" for me to bring up how that thread got so objectionable that it should have been closed long before it was?

In the new found light of your fondness for babble rules- albeit selective- lets go back and look at post s #45 and #46 in that closed thread.

Here we have examples of a lot of things I have been talking about.

But first of all, both those posts are blatant violations of the babble policy for the anti-racism forum; AND they are both just plain racist. In other words, you and Viking friend deserve to be called on that in whatever babble thread you might have posted the comments, let alone in the anti-racist forum where the rules say particpants should not have to deal with this crap. Just one place you know.

But as blatant as those two posts are, I do not see one single comment on them. Which is exactly what I was talking about, clueless priviliged people like you and your co-thinker toss up such a tremendous amount of objectionable stuff, that one just can't deal with it all. Literally.

And unfortunately- it happens all the time- probably in every thread... in the anti-racism forum.... the one place where people are not suppossed to have to do that, to be able to finally move past white people's problems understanding racism.

Thats the collective result of the "efforts" of you conveniently clueless white folk.

And by the way, it was real touching to see that heart warming line where Viking friend said he doesn't identify as a white person. As if that was suppossed to mean something. As if it wasn't technicolour living proof of the blindness of white privilege. As if...

In terms of effectiveness, and "teaching moment" possibilities, its unfortunate I ended up with this getting so much under my skin.

Its hard to remember now exactly what I originally said in that vanished post, but I'm pretty sure it had much more the flavour of sticking to "you can't imagine how naive you are. And it hurts/costs other people. Please don't do it. Which means you are going to have to shake your heads and figure things out."

But there is no reason at all I should apologise. Far from it. And looking at the process of where I ended up should give an idea of how hard it is, how fragile it is, to not lash out at the mindless ignorance. You all make it unbeleivably hard to say anything constructive. Let alone the implications of someone expecting that, it is just so hard.

conversation can hurt or heal...   the words we use makes all the difference.... the choice is ours... saying someone else is naive without giving the rationale for saying it seems counter productive to me....  happy trails, as i am off to bed...

I believe a certain amount of judgement is involved when babble mods decide which threads should be closed. By and large, the observable trend has shown that topics which have become hopelessly derailed from the original OP due to the presence of an unhealthy adversarial environment figure more prominently for closing action than say, a hypothetical segue into gardening techniques in an NDP polling thread. As for lengthy threads, it comes down to catching up with them as they cross the 100 post threshold, because psssst, apparently they're not always here, especially overnight when we tend to run amuck. On the whole though, why wouldn't rabble contributors come to expect that level of attention and decisiveness when it comes to closing threads, what with the handsome compensation packages the mods enjoy.

Speaking of segues, I really didn't want to start a new reactions thread just for this observation alone, so I'll just put it out here, that I don't consider for a second that this is any kind of Freudian slip, or indicative of a new political philosophy.

No, I thought that was on purpose.